A friend asked what software I was using as reference material for a drawing I was working on. I wanted to give her a link to Poser, but there only is the Pro version. She will not be investing $199 into this and I'm going to drive her towards the competition now and recommend Daz3D, thought that's not what I want to do at all. Will the regular version of Poser come back or do you rather have every beginner go to the competition? I'm sure they don't mind that the base version of Poser is gone.

It appears Rendo/Bondware has decided to rationalise on one version of Poser only. so there is now only Poser Pro. I can see this makes sense in trying to get all users to be using the same version, so for example someone making a body morph for a figure for sale no longer needs to worry about clothes fitting as everybody has access to the copy morphs from feature which used to be a pro only feature.

I can't remember the base price of Poser 11, but I know I paid more than 199usd upgrading from Poser2014pro to 11 pro. And now if you buy Poser 11 pro you get extra content that is available in the store to the value of 900usd (according to Rendo, I haven't checked it myself).

Also you can download Poser 11 pro and use it for a 21 day trial for free.(but you don't get access to the extra content until you buy it)

You could also factor in all the free content you get with Poser just to start out of the box that would probably cost you more that $200 to buy.

There is over $900 is NEW free content with the purchase of Poser Pro 11. The software is on a large discount at just $199 for the full version and $99 for the upgrade. And there is also all of the previous legacy figures, props, animals and other content that has always been included with Poser.

Okay I see, but for someone starting out the $49 it used to be or the $199 it is now is a big difference. I'm sure my friend will not invest $199 from the start, so DAZ3D it will be for her.

Why don't you give her the choice and let her make up her own mind? I would, no matter which software I personally liked better.

I think as a starter one gets more with poser and all that extra goodie and is able to start playing directly. With DS one still need to buy lots of things.

If all that Poser will be needed for is simple figure-reference, then one can still get Poser Debut on eBay for about $8 on a DVD. So far as I am aware it can still be activated. Debut would be a nice gift for her to try, and if she likes it then she has an upgrade path to Poser 11.2. Those with a Poser Debut serial number are eligible for the upgrade price.

Ebay might be a good idea.

EClark1894 posted at 2:29AM Wed, 29 January 2020 - #4378103

Why don't you give her the choice and let her make up her own mind? I would, no matter which software I personally liked better.

That's of course the first thing I did I gave her the options and Poser Pro was quickly discarded, too much of an investment for her.

IMO if it's just for reference then extra content is irrelevant. You just need a simple nude figure that can be posed and if you can't find a good deal on ebay for Poser Debut then I would really suggest just going for DAZ Studio. It's free and you get the G8 starter essentials for free as well. There's also the weekly freebies and you can slooooooooooooowly build up a library of clothing/hair/characters that way, but if it's just for reference than that shouldn't be a big deal.

Even though you're talking about software for model references may I also suggest a physical figure prop. Maybe one of those wooden basic shape figures or something more detailed like the Phicen/TB League figures. Someone bought me one of those Phicen figures for this exact same purpose and it's actually been super useful in my sketches.

Thanks. DAZ Studio would work indeed for that, but a bit of extra content is always nice. It's mainly for reference purpose.

A wooden mannequin is nice, but has it's limits, for me Poser is a huge goto when needed some poses. Having been using Poser since 1999 I build a huge library myself and there's so mayny stuff that comes in handy when doing traditional art. That's not her main purpose though.

What is her purpose? And is the figures her main concern or the cost?

EClark1894 posted at 1:00AM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378290

What is her purpose? And is the figures her main concern or the cost?

I do think she has the main concern as anyone starting with Poser or Daz Studio..... cost. She made up her mind, it will not be Poser Pro, to steep of a price to get in. Most beginners don't need Poser Pro, they want to easily get into it, check it out and go from there. $199 isn't something you easily get into, Poser Debut was perfect for that purpose. Rendo doesn't offer it, so that's that. She's going for DAZ and might pick up some content she really likes there too. DAZ does understand one thing well...... marketing. You get people interested by offering something for free and once they're hooked you offer them a world of content. They are likely to spent a lot more the $199 that Rendo is asking, but don't need to pay at once. It's a shame. I still prefer Poser over DAZ Studio, but I do understand her reasoning for not wanting to pay $199 for something she just wants to check out.

Okay. I wish her well.

Even that I am a Poser user I would say your friend might be better of with Daz to start off. just to be able to get the Freebies offered by 3rd Party creators in Poser and Pay the Price it is not worth it . The good old stuff is still based on V4 M4 and she would have to get her at Daz !

There are loads of great free content for Poser and DS over the Internet just use google search for "Free Poser/ DS" . Ds will support both DS/Poser models , at least almost all with the little exception of La Femme. Also at the moment she would be in disadvantage as no one knows how it will develop and making large Investments into Poser could end up as a loss. Poser has a call home system that might be changing into a monthly pay system , they just have to hit that little button !! so better wait up until they release Poser 12 as it also could be that they hit the button and shut down Poser 11, you never know.

The next thing is that most of the great Creators make models for DS , so if she plans to buy stuff she might get better quality for the price offered. The latest DS models are very developed and it would take poser over a decade to catch up on them if they get some capable Creators, what I doubt, as they rather get rid of them then to recruiter.

This is my honest meaning even that I am a Poser user and should support it , but if I were to start off from scratch I would Pick DS to be on the secure side.

Freebies ... for Poser and for DazStudio (DazStudio ones are either clearly marked or, in the case of content for DazStudio figures, obviously DazStudio content). DazStudio can use most Poser content too ... not PP11 content and not figures that are weightmapped for Poser.

I like both (and Bryce too), no application wars on my computer.

https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page

I use only Poser and I love it but if anyone was starting out I would still recommend starting out with DS, apart from anything else until you really get into start to dig into 3D art it is hard to decide if it something you are going to enjoy. Even if you decide it is something you want to look into a bit deeper it will be a while for most users before they can decide just where they are going. I used Daz for a year or more before I decided that Poser was worth the extra outlay and that was Poser 4. For a while I used both softwares but I found there was so much to learn in either I felt I could go further if I concentrated on one program. Having made my choice I stayed with Poser upgrading Poser whenever the was a new version available.

Much as I like Poser it seems a waste of money if it is not going to be used and only the individual user can decide if any software is worth the outlay. All Daz is doing in the initial stages is offering an unlimited 'try before you buy' facility, let's face it, if you are then going to take 3D art seriously it is going to cost a good deal of money. The only exception maybe those to whom the ability to model is a second nature and I suspect such individuals are quite rare.

The problem is that starting out with one program or the other is a bit different than a few years ago. Yes, to a degree the props are pretty much the same, but from there things tend to diverge. Figures, lighting cameras, controls, etc. It does'nt make one program or the other better, just more different. I've used DS to some degree in the past, even made some props and clothes. Didn't like it. I was making a house for Dawn at one time, which, one day, I'm actually going to finish, but I knew before I got to where I stopped that I wasn't going to be doing a DS version. That was mainly a texturing thing, and before Iray. After Iray, the divide got even wider.

You learn in one program and you grow familiar with that program. That ends up being the program you most like prefer.

So, if she's made her choice. Okay, I wish her well.

Yes, this is the problem for poser, once someone has invested in content for DS they are unlikely to switch to poser and ditch the content they have bought or jump through the hoops of dson import, especially if the 200usd was the issue in the first place.

Clearly Rendo has to keep the additional content free with poser behind the serial number block, but perhaps an illustrated catalog of this content could be made available for download with the free 21 day trial download. This would allow a fair comparison, new users could try both programs, look at what content they could buy for 200usd for DS and see what content they would get by spending that money on Poser 11 pro

@azath....I am so tired of your assumptions. Poser has had a call home system since Smith Micro owned it. That was started it with Poser Pro 2014 Game Dev and carried through Poser 11 and Poser Pro 11. We continued that system for continuity and for the ability to have the notification system built in and for future development It is NOT to start charging a fee to use Poser. IF and when....IF EVER...we offered a subscription there would also be an option to purchase poser as always. A fully licensed version to buy to own. Stop putting out "ideas" or "assumptions" into the ether. You claim to support Poser...while always trying to undercut the program. WHY? We have owned the software for less than a year. How about you just give it a little time and see what actually is done.

As for a list of products or content that is FREE with the purchase of Poser..we do have a page listing all of that content. It is connected to each Poser Software page here with the the purple bar right under the lightbox images. Says click here to see free content....click that and it will take you HERE.

On the Poser Software site we also have a link to that same sort of page that list the content. it is HERE

Nails60 posted at 11:13AM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378352

Yes, this is the problem for poser, once someone has invested in content for DS they are unlikely to switch to poser and ditch the content they have bought or jump through the hoops of dson import, especially if the 200usd was the issue in the first place.

Clearly Rendo has to keep the additional content free with poser behind the serial number block, but perhaps an illustrated catalog of this content could be made available for download with the free 21 day trial download. This would allow a fair comparison, new users could try both programs, look at what content they could buy for 200usd for DS and see what content they would get by spending that money on Poser 11 pro

Never intimated that it was a problem JUST for Poser. In fact, a few people I know said they switched over from DS TO Poser primarily because they didn't either like the UI, or the rendering system or they preferred certain things about Poser that were different. It doesn't always have to be about content. In fact, I do have DS on my computer. It's an older version and if I check my product library at DAZ they probably have several of the newer versions in there. And if it were just a content thing, I survived the first few years of Poser, prior to my joining Renderosity or DAZ, downloading freebies from the internet, so after my initial cost, which I believe at the time was quite more significant $199, I didn't actually BUY any content for Poser for almost two years. My point is, Aeilkema's friend could easily do the same with Studio, I'm sure, if she really doesn't want to invest too much money to just to see if she likes it.

Also, don't forget, Poser does come with a 21 day free trial.

The hobby, which is what 3D art is for me, has certainly changed in all the years that I have been playing with it but then so much in life has changed in the last twenty odd years (and they have been odd years in many respects). I have not used DS for many years now and clearly DS and Poser have moved off in different directions but I think we too often look at the differences and pay little regard for commonality. I guess this is understandable in some respects, in the same way we as a race tend to look at what we want rather than what we have. Concentration on our wishlist always seem to take priority over what is in our runtime but for all that there are so many similarities. Finishing up with a good render needs good lighting, composition, attention to detail and so much more and that is true no matter what software is used, there may be different paths to that goal, dependant on the software in question, but the basics remain the same.

Even today a large percentage of the content can be made to work in either DS or Poser, sure some may need a little bit of effort but very little is totally impossible. As to worrying about investment in 3D art software is no more vulnerable or protected than most things in life. When I started with Poser I think I paid over $400 for Poser, I know for a fact that the upgrade for Poser 7 was $249 and I purchased it on sale at $160 and that was in $2006. At the time many were predicting that Poser was dying and would not last much longer. I also purchased Bryce and Hexigon, 14 years and Poser 11.2 looks nothing like Poser 7 but Bryce and Hexigon has not changed much. Sure they are still around as is the company that owns the, but very few people would buy them today.

Trying to predict the future is a mug's game and with a good level of certainty that you will get it wrong. Far better to do your research and buy based upon what you can see and use today and from there on in have fun using what you have rather what you think you might have. Personally I think Poser is in a good place, a better place that is has been for a while but guess what, if all development on Poser stopped this very moment I will still be using it, for how long who knows, that is the future and I would rather have fun now and not worry about that.

@jennblake, just wanted to say thank you, and well said.

Hornet, if Poser stopped development today, I know very well what software I would be using next, Blender, as there's little to nothing DS could do for me that I couldn't find or do in Blender as well, if not more.

jennblake posted at 2:28PM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378356

We continued that system for continuity and for the ability to have the notification system built in and for future development It is NOT to start charging a fee to use Poser. IF and when...

.I**F EVER...we offered a subscription there would also be an option to purchase poser as always. A fully licensed version to buy to own. Stop putting out "ideas" or "assumptions" into the ether. **Y

That's the first mention of that information I've seen. It might alleviate a lot of the concern here.

jennblake posted at 4:13PM Thu, 30 January 2020 - #4378356

@azath....I am so tired of your assumptions. Poser has had a call home system since Smith Micro owned it. That was started it with Poser Pro 2014 Game Dev and carried through Poser 11 and Poser Pro 11. We continued that system for continuity and for the ability to have the notification system built in and for future development It is NOT to start charging a fee to use Poser. IF and when....IF EVER...we offered a subscription there would also be an option to purchase poser as always. A fully licensed version to buy to own. Stop putting out "ideas" or "assumptions" into the ether. You claim to support Poser...while always trying to undercut the program. WHY? We have owned the software for less than a year. How about you just give it a little time and see what actually is done.

As for a list of products or content that is FREE with the purchase of Poser..we do have a page listing all of that content. It is connected to each Poser Software page here with the the purple bar right under the lightbox images. Says click here to see free content....click that and it will take you HERE.

On the Poser Software site we also have a link to that same sort of page that list the content. it is HERE

I know this is a bit OT but is there any way to allow the store and the bonus content from P11 to be linked somehow? There's so much stuff that you get and a lot of that was on my wishlist but when I check it out in the store it's not listed as being owned. If I want to buy something I have to make sure it's not something that was gifted by owning P11.

Also another question, the Girl Gear that we get with P11, that's a special version of it made just for LF? The regular version seems like it's made just for G8F.

John, if I'm not mistaken as long as you have your serial number, you can download the bonus content from posersoftware.com under downloads and it's still free so as far as I know you don't have to buy anything.

EClark1894 posted at 6:39AM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378416

John, if I'm not mistaken as long as you have your serial number, you can download the bonus content from posersoftware.com under downloads and it's still free so as far as I know you don't have to buy anything.

I think he meant linking it to the store so that he doesn't accidentaly buy a thing again because the store shows it as not owned even though it comes with Poser.

So he wants the store to read my Poser library to determine if I own something or not? Only if you make it a user option.

I don't know, could perhaps detect if Poser 11 is in a user's library (at least the ones bought via Renderosity?) and automatically add to the person's library all the products that come free with 11.2 that are in Renderosity's store.

The problem I can see with that is that some of those products, in store, come with Poser and DS version in one product, but the ones free with Poser are the Poser version only, naturally.

I just don't want anyone poking around my computer, determining what I got.

Wouldn't need to poke your computer, though? I mean, at least for what I thought, it would only be Renderosity checking if your Renderosity account has Poser in it or not. No matter if you got it installed or if you got any of the extra downloads installed.

EClark

I know you don't buy things so perhaps you don't know how it works currently. If you go to any product you have bought at Rendo it indicates it is purchased. (Daz has the option to hide products you own on by default, Hivewire shows an indication on the product and also has the hide option I believe). However this is not the case for the free poser items with 11.2 (or for prime freebies etc),

Perhaps the solution would be for customers to be able to link their poser 11 serial to their account for those who bought p11 from somewhere else prior to the sale to rendo, and then for that content it could be added to the account as purchased.

And in someways I'd love Rendo to be able to read my library to mark everything I have bought from various sites as purchased, with some stuff starting at rnda, going to daz then to rendo, and stuff which has come from CP, but I can see why other would worry, and it's probably not technically viable.

So I don't think the paranoid brigade have anything to worry about, but now it's been mentioned I can see someone telling everybody not to buy poser because this is what Bondware is planning!

Nails you got so much wrong in your last post, particularly about me not buying things, that I just don't know where to start. I mean, paranoid, really? You sound like a cop who thinks I have something to hide because I don't want him to violate my CONSTITUITIONAL rights and search my car during a traffic stop.

I have no qualms with anyone LETTING someone search their library, if that's what you want to do. I merely want the option to choose.

Nails60 posted at 12:17PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378439

EClark

I know you don't buy things so perhaps you don't know how it works currently. If you go to any product you have bought at Rendo it indicates it is purchased. (Daz has the option to hide products you own on by default, Hivewire shows an indication on the product and also has the hide option I believe). However this is not the case for the free poser items with 11.2 (or for prime freebies etc),

Perhaps the solution would be for customers to be able to link their poser 11 serial to their account for those who bought p11 from somewhere else prior to the sale to rendo, and then for that content it could be added to the account as purchased.

And in someways I'd love Rendo to be able to read my library to mark everything I have bought from various sites as purchased, with some stuff starting at rnda, going to daz then to rendo, and stuff which has come from CP, but I can see why other would worry, and it's probably not technically viable.

So I don't think the paranoid brigade have anything to worry about, but now it's been mentioned I can see someone telling everybody not to buy poser because this is what Bondware is planning!

I don't know what or why it is, but Earl always seems to completely misunderstand everything I say lately. I could say "I want to have some food" and he'd think I said "Well I really want to everyone here to go and buy a new sports car paint it blue then afterwards you should start your own take out business that only sells expensive raviolis".

But yeah, the product indication is what I would like to eventually see for the bonus content. I like the idea of linking your serial number to the store and I'm actually surprised that wasn't already an option since Bondware now owns and sells Poser exclusively on the marketplace. Though Bondware reading my Poser library is a step I'm not too comfortable with.

Come on, John. If I misunderstand, it's because you don't state it clearly. I don't hardly think I'd misunderstand "I want some food" with buying a new sports car. Or did I get that wrong too?

Well both Afrodite-Ohki and Nails understood what I meant.

Besides, I only say that because in another thread about organizing poser I wrote how I wished the runtimes had a standardized structure but somehow you misconstrue that as wanting "a catalogue with a picture of his shirt, who it's made by, how much it costs and where he can buy it" which was literally nothing I said. I said none of that, anywhere in my posts and I was really confused as to where any of that came from and how you thought that's what I said. lol

It's ok though, it's just text and sometimes ideas don't always carry across in fonts.

Runtimes DO have a standaridized structure.

EClark1894 posted at 1:59PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378453

Runtimes DO have a standaridized structure.

That wasn't the point of my post. It's clear we're clearly not clearly clear on our thoughtful thinking thoughts here and it doesn't seem like we're going to be in sync at all, so I am just going to slowly exit this conversation.

EClark, where did I mention you were paranoid? I specifically said that I understand that some people would be uncomfortable.

. My comment is about those who hear one rumour and then act as if the world is about to end, I'm sure you are aware as those to whom I'm referring.

And I apologise if you are upset about my comment that you do not buy things, this was not meant as a criticism , rather based on your previous comments here and earlier on the SM forum where you have implied you made content you used,but I accept you have never said you do not buy content. But since you were clearly misunderstanding the issue I tried to give a reason why that might be so.

JohnDoe641 posted at 1:40PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378446

I don't know what or why it is, but Earl always seems to completely misunderstand everything I say lately. I could say "I want to have some food" and he'd think I said "Well I really want to everyone here to go and buy a new sports car paint it blue then afterwards you should start your own take out business that only sells expensive raviolis".

Please bear in mind the EClark1894 is so-called, because it's an 1894-Series ebot!

Everyone, can we all please take a moment to breathe? Let's not allow misunderstandings to get us angry/fighting, please.

Nails60 posted at 5:32PM Fri, 31 January 2020 - #4378458

EClark, where did I mention you were paranoid? I specifically said that I understand that some people would be uncomfortable.

I took this to mean that you were calling me a part of the "paranoid brigade".

"So I don't think the paranoid brigade have anything to worry about, but now it's been mentioned I can see someone telling everybody not to buy poser because this is what Bondware is planning!"

. My comment is about those who hear one rumour and then act as if the world is about to end, I'm sure you are aware as those to whom I'm referring.

And I apologise if you are upset about my comment that you do not buy things, this was not meant as a criticism , rather based on your previous comments here and earlier on the SM forum where you have implied you made content you used,but I accept you have never said you do not buy content. But since you were clearly misunderstanding the issue I tried to give a reason why that might be so.

I also have said that I have an account here at Renderosity. I do like to make things in Blender. I'm working on something now. But that doesn't mean I've made everything in my library or downloaded it from the internet. If you've read the SM forum, then you can see renders that I've made using Dawn and Dusk. I'm not limited to those figures, they're just the ones I prefer to use right now. My account page is several pages long, but I do stop at 87. I did have a wish list, but some of that stuff is rather dated now, and yeah, I can probably do a go job recreating it.

Also, my account here doesn't include stuff I've bought from DAZ, RDNA, HIVEWIRE, Poserworld, Content Paradise, Animotions, etc.

JennBlake, please explain something, if you would.

You say the call-home "feature" is in there for continuity, even though it's only been in Poser Game Developer, not the main program itself, until now. The people who dont like it — myself included — want it out. We already had one occasion where the Bondware server went down and no one whose copies were trying to call home could even open the program. Granted, that was only for a few hours, but nevertheless, what if something catastrophic hit and shut the server down for a few weeks (and yes, that's possible)? What possible advantage does this thing that nobody wants serve you? If Bondware could put a credible explanation out there for it (something better than "well, it was in there when we got it"), it might alleviate some concerns. But thus far, I havent heard one.

For accuracy's sake, Poser Game Dev was the first version that SM released that had the "phone home" activation in place. It carried over into Poser 11 (both standard and pro), which also used the same activation scheme. Moho uses it as well. Activation was either accomplished behind the scenes online, or by obtaining an activation/deactivation certificate on a machine that was connected, and then transferring that certificate to an offline computer. In the five plus years since Game Dev, and approaching four years for Poser 11, I don't think I ever had any issues with it.

Poser 11.2 was Rendo's first release. They probably had a limited amount of time to figure out a solution, seeing as SM owned the activation server and were planning on taking it offline. So the "phone home" feature isn't new to the Rendo version, the only change that I am aware of is that it no longer phones in to the SM server seeing as it no longer exists.

@ Deecey: understood. But Bondware has refused, thus far, to say why they're keeping it in... which they intend to do, as far as I can tell from their replies to date. People have been asking about this for some time, and the replies have been vague at best.

So I"m hoping someone from Bondware will step up and tell us why this is such a valuable "feature".

I"m hoping someone from Bondware will step up and tell us why this is such >a valuable "feature".

Stems piracy & provides data on number of installed users.

Guess we will see if they keep it in PP12 and stepp into SM's shoes

@ Wolf , it does not prevent Piracy it provokes Piracy . If you run your legal licence it will be affected from the call home it will even periodically send a lock to get all SM versions down even if they have Permanent licences. If you run a unregistriert versions there servers will not be able to get into your system and leave you alone , so there goes honest people!

@ Jenn , Why ? I guess you know why ! I do not like Lies and I guess many others also, I can not give respect for people who try to get what they want by force if you know what I mean. also there are several Threads at Daz and other Places that say that people who argue in these Forums get there Accounts banned including all there Purchases counted over 6 since end of July. Is this the way you plan to handle Poser in the future ?

Nails60 posted at 8:19AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378458

EClark, where did I mention you were paranoid? I specifically said that I understand that some people would be uncomfortable.

. My comment is about those who hear one rumour and then act as if the world is about to end, I'm sure you are aware as those to whom I'm referring.

And I apologise if you are upset about my comment that you do not buy things, this was not meant as a criticism , rather based on your previous comments here and earlier on the SM forum where you have implied you made content you used,but I accept you have never said you do not buy content. But since you were clearly misunderstanding the issue I tried to give a reason why that might be so.

LOL, Nails60, it's the Paranoia Brigade that STARTS the rumors. And the more you ignore them, the more outrageous the next Paranoid Point will be, because what they really are is attention seekers. If they get ignored, they just up the paranoia to the next level.

AKA: see above. I can't imagine how many people have been banned for complaining in the Rendo forums, when an obnoxious account whose entire existence is badmouthing Poser and its vendors keeps yapping freely here even after having broken several forum rules.

If he doesn't like lies, perhaps a severe case of self-hatred is ongoing.

wolf359 posted at 9:23AM Sat, 01 February 2020 - #4378504

I"m hoping someone from Bondware will step up and tell us why this is such >a valuable "feature".

Stems piracy & provides data on number of installed users.

(1) Poser is most likely not high on the piracy lists, especially since its market appears to be shrinking.

(2) Sales figures and downloads will tell you how many users you have.