First image is P12 SF and the seams around the collar/shoulder/arm are visible. I'm also posting the settings I used. I then saved this .pz3 and opened it in P11 and rendered without adjusting anything and as you can see the P11 render does not have the seams.

Does anybody know what might be causing this? The texture is from an old V4 character by Danae - Rio and I ran it through EZSkin for P12 (the beta version). If I don't use EZSkin I don't get the seams. But the strange thing is that even though I set up the character in P12 and used the EZSkin for P12 it rendered fine in P11. It's only in P12 that the problem shows up. Any thoughts?

Ok, well thanks to jennblake problem solved! It seems I needed to have the figure's Skinning method set to unimesh!

Kalypso posted at 6:00PM Sun, 11 July 2021 - #4422971

Ok, well thanks to jennblake problem solved! It seems I needed to have the figure's Skinning method set to unimesh!

From what I've understood once, a few months ago: it should become a kind of reflex, as in the future, it will become Poser's default ?

For the record, I had the same problem with Antonia the other day. My shader was just a principled BSDF node with some subsurface scattering, and that brought out the same blueish seams right away. Switching to unimesh fixed it.

So this happened when Figure/Skinning Method is set to Poser Traditional? Wonder why in Poser 12 this happens when it was fine in previous versions.

Yes, Poser Traditional skinning plus SuperFly plus SSS makes it happen. I don't have Poser 11 so I can't confirm that it doesn't happen there, too.

odf posted at 1:14PM Tue, 13 July 2021 - #4423076

Yes, Poser Traditional skinning plus SuperFly plus SSS makes it happen. I don't have Poser 11 so I can't confirm that it doesn't happen there, too.

It seems that it's related to Cycles 2.x, as that doesn't appear in my test with P11 and its Cycles 1.x

I'd been wondering if there had been changes in Cycles between P11 and P12.

If one were really keen on getting to the bottom of this, it might be interesting to take a Poser figure into Blender and see if the same thing happens there.

The obj doesn't. I haven't tried any other formats

I contacted support about this and just received a response.

The scatter node used by EZSkin is not compatible with the Cycles 2render engine. The way Cycles 2 handles detached geometry is different. This is why we're currently working to make Poser Unimesh throughout.

is that a texture filtering artifact?

JimTS posted at 5:36AM Sun, 22 August 2021 - #4425826

is that a texture filtering artifact?

No, it's to do with scattering, which is a volumetric thing.

CobraBlade posted at 12:02PM Sun, 22 August 2021 - #4423417

I contacted support about this and just received a response.

The scatter node used by EZSkin is not compatible with the Cycles 2render engine. The way Cycles 2 handles detached geometry is different. This is why we're currently working to make Poser Unimesh throughout.

This might be a really bad Idea resulting to the same compatibility issues that occurred after changing to the next Python Level. It might even throw back Poser, considering that a cut of multiple support might make allot of older models useless, comes to it that any FBX or Colada pre Articulated import are based on Simple Bones Single Skin after being Imported, meaning that these might get unfunctional causing the same Import issues like Daz Studio is having, limiting poser even more. It might even cause that DS Fbx Import could be totally Limited to only static props stepping even further from multi compatibility, not to mention the possibilities that still work between Blender and Poser these also could get very limited. Any external articulated Import file does not support Poser Unimesh so the only option that would remain is Obj's !

so these sundry skinning methods still can't cleanly fuse the texture maps into a pleasing result bummer we are still "not there yet" sum not greater than it's parts not magic

The Poser dev team had a webinar when P12 came out. I will try to explain it the way they did: In the old days when computers had limited speed and memory Poser would cut up the mesh into sections so it only had to deal with that one section you were working on (hand, finger joint, neck, etc) this made Poser more responsive for figure bending and animation. It also causes a lot of problems for figure modelers when a mesh is imported, worked on then exported back to their modeler. It f***s up the mesh verts and symmetry. There have been a few figures for sale over the years that have had mesh issues because of this. Now that everybody has super fast computers with gobs of memory there is no good reason to cut the mesh up into smaller parts. Once we get unimesh for Poser things like developing and importing new figures will be easier, also making clothing for these figures will be easier. Rigging and weightmapping should be easier. And when this goes live the dev team will be able to address things like animation, dynamics and color space.

ghostship2 posted at 7:01PM Sun, 22 August 2021 - #4425839

The Poser dev team had a webinar when P12 came out. I will try to explain it the way they did: In the old days when computers had limited speed and memory Poser would cut up the mesh into sections so it only had to deal with that one section you were working on (hand, finger joint, neck, etc) this made Poser more responsive for figure bending and animation. It also causes a lot of problems for figure modelers when a mesh is imported, worked on then exported back to their modeler. It f***s up the mesh verts and symmetry. There have been a few figures for sale over the years that have had mesh issues because of this. Now that everybody has super fast computers with gobs of memory there is no good reason to cut the mesh up into smaller parts. Once we get unimesh for Poser things like developing and importing new figures will be easier, also making clothing for these figures will be easier. Rigging and weightmapping should be easier. And when this goes live the dev team will be able to address things like animation, dynamics and color space.

That is if Poser will still be supporting direct import of rigged figures by using unimesh what I dopt ! Fbx , Collada imports would break if they do not get the Simple Bones support, These are not cut btw. it is actually the essential rigging method of most any other 3D Program ( Except Poser and Daz Studio ) . Only Poser unimesh method might cause the rigged Imported models to break on the joints unless the method is based on single skin. Such a system would naturally cause that a Poser model needs to be completely rigged in the Poser interface to work correctly witch would mean a big cut of figure versality and for sure unnecessary additional work for a creator.

So better make sure having a working copy of PP2014 or 11 if it will be the case that fully rigged imports will not work any longer and break like they do in DS.

It might also be a technical misunderstanding of interpretation and things are going to be better to Import articulated models from other 3D applications, who knows, it is to see when it will be released, but if, then from my Knowledge it would cause that a V4 would not be working correctly as it is again a totally different way of rigging then a FBX model Import, meaning it is better to keep multiple support rather then to cut Poser to only Poser Unimesh support. A Poser mesh is based on tris and a Fbx is based on simple that is a big difference each can't be interchanged by one click.

In the other hand if Poser gets a one click option between Simple and tris it would be awesome, this would mean to be able to Import a Genesis Fbx resulting to be simple, hit that button and Bang, get a tris fully compatible to save as Poser unimesh without having to rig that model all over again in the poser interface and without any loss of quality. This would sure attract new users!

Technically probably not quiet possible but who knows The Poser dev team might of found a solution for this problem. In such a case Previous Poser versions could be eliminated from the machine :)

The devs know how important V4/M4 are to the community and said they will still work 100% in Poser going forward. DS is pretty much a closed system that is intended for the user to buy content directly from Daz. Inside DS I don't think other figures work as well or can do the things that the G3/G8 figures do by design . Daz does not want competitors to their little kingdom.

In any case unimesh is needed to move forward with any new figures inside of Poser.

Cyogreem posted at 8:59PM Sun, 22 August 2021 - #4425845

That is if Poser will still be supporting direct import of rigged figures by using unimesh what I dopt ! Fbx , Collada imports would break if they do not get the Simple Bones support, These are not cut btw. it is actually the essential rigging method of most any other 3D Program ( Except Poser and Daz Studio ) . Only Poser unimesh method might cause the rigged Imported models to break on the joints unless the method is based on single skin. Such a system would naturally cause that a Poser model needs to be completely rigged in the Poser interface to work correctly witch would mean a big cut of figure versality and for sure unnecessary additional work for a creator.

This is beyond my level of expertise, but if Fbx and Collada are not cut into multiple meshes, why would it be a problem to represent them as a single mesh? I've seen plenty of complaining about what goes wrong when they are split, so that sure sounds like a single mesh is the way to go.

My guess is once unimesh is implemented then they can work on FBX and other things.

ghostship2 posted at 4:59AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425850

The devs know how important V4/M4 are to the community and said they will still work 100% in Poser going forward. DS is pretty much a closed system that is intended for the user to buy content directly from Daz. Inside DS I don't think other figures work as well or can do the things that the G3/G8 figures do by design . Daz does not want competitors to their little kingdom.

In any case unimesh is needed to move forward with any new figures inside of Poser.

Actually Unimesh is already a part and Integrated into Poser since 2014 nothing new at all just that it has not been used very often. V4 millenium series would not get affected by changing them to unimesh nor simple due the construct of tris ,( meaning rigging individually x,y,z these remain burned into the mesh even if you swap and save as a new skin. ) So there would not be any big change of what already was built in Poser, except that it would save the new mesh as Unimesh standard instead of a Traditional Poser. But now if the plan is to cut the support of simple mesh ( meaning to be united Not cut, based on Weight Map all in one not like Unimesh having to rig each axis individually ) and the Traditional ( Cut Version ) It would cause that Importing a FBX or Collada articulated figure would blow ( Explode in it's polygons after import and trying to use the articulations ) .

From my understanding on how it is mentioned in here it is to limit poser to Unimesh only and removing DEV completely witch sure would result to larger issues then it happen when Python was changed loosig a wide range of possibilities.

There is actually no way to keep FBX compatible and remove DEV on the Interface of Poser. so the communication between other 3D programs would get very limited to its only in Poser built for models just like DS is having with a Import restriction witch does not directly affect the exporting.

Also DEV simple setting were actually the best improvements made in poser after 2014. offering compatibility with most external 3D programs and even with the newest Blender releases!

Poser is actually not in the position to make such a drastic change with just the beginning of "one" La Femme model expecting big success whilst totally cutting external support.

Actually it was my biggest fear that this would ever happen since Bondware took over, compared to the Python changes that would of been just a drop on a hot stone compared to what restrictions might be coming. So I really hope that I am totally wrong with my assumptions and that this conversation is just based on a big misunderstanding due a lack of Information.

ChromeStar posted at 6:02AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425853

Cyogreem posted at 8:59PM Sun, 22 August 2021 - #4425845

That is if Poser will still be supporting direct import of rigged figures by using unimesh what I dopt ! Fbx , Collada imports would break if they do not get the Simple Bones support, These are not cut btw. it is actually the essential rigging method of most any other 3D Program ( Except Poser and Daz Studio ) . Only Poser unimesh method might cause the rigged Imported models to break on the joints unless the method is based on single skin. Such a system would naturally cause that a Poser model needs to be completely rigged in the Poser interface to work correctly witch would mean a big cut of figure versality and for sure unnecessary additional work for a creator.

This is beyond my level of expertise, but if Fbx and Collada are not cut into multiple meshes, why would it be a problem to represent them as a single mesh? I've seen plenty of complaining about what goes wrong when they are split, so that sure sounds like a single mesh is the way to go.

The compatible issue is not that they are not being cut into multiple meshes, the main issues that users are having on a FBX or Collada Import is that they do not realize that these are simple single Meshes Handling them like unimesh tris models, so the conflict never was a compatibility issue it is that the user was expecting it to be a tris model ! you can't change a Imported single mesh standart into a Unimesh tris without having to rig this model from scratch. It has basically nothing to do with splitting a model, Single and Unimesh are both not split ( Unimesh uses 3 axis rigging Poser/DS .... and simple just one for all just like done in any other 3D program called DEV in Poser )

I'm pretty sure that the Collada and FBX import/Export will work after unimesh is set. No use in speculating until all the cards are on the table.

ghostman posted at 3:44PM Sun, 29 August 2021 - #4426247

I'm pretty sure that the Collada and FBX import/Export will work after unimesh is set. No use in speculating until all the cards are on the table.

No Doubt that they will work, they worked already before the release of PP 2014, it is to see if per mistake or lack of knowledge remove DEV, or cause a conflict to force the removal. this would not make the Import impossible it would just throw poser back before the release of 2014. If DEV support remains not much would change for the Import.

As you say it is to see what is going to happen , it is just to hope that not more gets removed that was very useful for figure creation and direct communication with external programs.

Out of awareness is also the fact that allot of old creators that jumped to Daz Studio are using Poser to create standalone models that are then encrypted to DS format for sale. so allot of Models are still created in poser that end up to be only DS format releases. A little creator secret! so to know that quiet allot of support is coming from this side even if not officially mentioned.

This is caused due the lack of DS for external import and support witch poser is giving until now due full support of cr2 in DS. So basically is Daz Studio still depending on poser for certain things :) and this gives quiet some user support for poser. An error with external compatibility could be fatal for a good future.