I am really starting to get bored on the crappy screen refresh rates of Vue. I'm currently working on a new model an now and then trows it into Vue to get a render of it's current state. Its now at around 60000 polygons. If I do something such as move the model and take the time for that operation to refresh all screens it takes about 20 -30 seconds until all the wievs has been uppdated in GL mode. This totally sucks as I have $20 Shareware applications that does the same in close to real time(also in four views). The fact that I have this problems on a 1.4GHz, 512Mb RAM and GForce3 equipped machine does not make me feel any better. Am I the only one with problems like this.

Nope, you re not. Almost the same spec. for my pc bit more GHz. but does the same ;( Myske

That's weird cuz I only have bout 733MHz and not many Rams. Bout 100 or so and its works fine on mine I guess.

Do you use "smooth shaded" display mode on all view windows ? Choose "flat shaded" or "wireframe" on some of them. the refresh rate will be faster. A "smooth shaded" display takes time, even on a fast processor.

I use "smooth shaded" display mode only for the main camera view (If the scene is very heavy I switch to "flat shaded"). For all the other views (top-side-front) I choose "wireframe" display.

Compared to all the other software I've tested, I think that VUE has a quite fast screen refreshing rate. On my system it can handle more than 20 millions polygons and "refresh" the display windows in 20 sec ("flat shaded" mode). The other softwares freeze for minutes with more than 1 million polygons. Above 3 millions polygons Amapi, Cinema 4D XL, Truespace and Electric Image Universe just crash !

Yeah, that's what I would suggest too. Wireframe. I don't even use the shaded modes at all, especially when dealing with huge models. If you use wireframe, it will refresh MUCH quicker, and if you set your render quality to "Sketch" while you're working, you can just hit the F9 key and get a very quick preview of how your model looks......much faster than waiting for the screens to refresh. Would it make you feel any better if I told you that Vue isn't any slower than 3ds max 4? Vue might be a little faster, for that matter.

MikeJ is right i would use wireframe rather than OpenGL in all viewports. The Geoforce 3 is really not a true OpenGL card it uses a portion of the GL drivers much like the Nvidia chipset - which is primarily used for gaming. On the other hand the FireGL, Oxygen ect.. higher end video cards are true OpenGL but are pretty much worthless when it comes to games. I had the Ultra 64 Prophet II w/ 64 megs ram and had the same problem you mention above, but I would get over 100fps on Quake 3 on my new machine I have the Oxygen GVX 210 full open GL that runs Vue 4 like no other but I am lucky to get 60fps on Quake 3.

Yeah it hadn't occurred to me to consider the graphics card, LOL! Me, I just have a 3DFX Voodoo 3card, and that seems to serve me just fine with everything, Vue 4 and games included. IMO, they could have totally left out OpenGL from Vue 4, and it wouldn't have bothered me any. I do like it in the Camera viewport though, to get a good idea of the fog and lighting, but that's about it.

Im sorry but I dont understand in what way the graphic card matter for the comparison on the same computer. Of course Vue could use something that my card dont support but if they do then they are doing wrong. They should of course identify my card and use it the best way they can. Im convinced that there must be something fundamentally wrong in how they use OpenGL, as Vue is so much slower than other apps. The fact that if I turn of OpenGL Vue gets close in speed to the other apps but then I dont get any shading. E-On once said that it is the drivers that are wrong but if it is then why does all applications except Vue work so god? Maybe they are using some new OpenGL instruction sets but then you must ask yourself why they do that, as most cards dont seem to support it. If thats the case then they should not use those options unless the driver supports it. Whatever they are trying to do in the OpenGL driver it cant be worth this. I suggest they contact some of the shareware writers that knows how to program OpenGL and asks for advice. I made some tests and you can make you own conclusions: Values are: Single view soft shade Single view wire Four views soft shaded Four views wire Wings3D Freeware Modeler (has only single view): 0.8 sec (Movement close to real time but some other commands take a couple of sec) 0.3 sec (Movement close to real time but some other commands take a couple of sec) -NA- (Has no multi view layout) -NA- (Has no multi view layout) GMax The Freeware version of 3DS MAX 4: 0 sec (Real time)!!! 0 sec (Real time)!!! 0.3 sec (Close to Real time)!!! 0 sec (Real time)!!! Metasequoia $20 Shareware Modeler: 0.2 sec (Close to Real time)!!! 0.2 sec (Close to Real time)!!! 0.5 sec 0.3 sec (Close to Real time)!!! Vue 4 (ground plane removed): 9.5 sec 24.5 sec 3 sec 6 sec Rhino 2: 0.3 sec (Close to Real time)!!! 0 sec (Real time)!!! 0.5 sec 0 sec (Real time)!!! Cinema 6 Demo: 0.2 sec (Close to Real time)!!! 0 sec (Real time)!!! 0.3 sec (Close to Real time)!!! 0 sec (Real time)!!!

You ought to email that to them.

Hellborn, All I can tell you is that it does matter which ard your computer has. That is why you have diffrent viewport option available to use and to decide which one displays and refreshes the fastest. I have doubts about your tests: First - I know for a fact that Gmax and 3D StudioMax will not display fog and atmospheric effects in a viewport no matter what card you are using. Whereas Vue 4 will. Second - When you are viewing the soft shaded model ect.. in Max, Gmax and Cinema all products I am familiar with you do not need OpenGL drivers - just partial GL. Third - Vue 4 viewport rendering does have code written for full OpenGL viewing IF your card will support it. I am using the Oxygen GVX 210 w/ full Open GL support and my screen refresh rates are real time with atmospheric effects. The card you have the GeForce 3 was never meant to be a rendering card but a gaming card. " The NVIDIA GeForce3 family of graphics processing units (GPUs) shakes up the gaming industry with unprecedented visual effects and sizzling frame rates" They are two totally seperate things (gaming & rendering cards) Whereas your card can show fog, atmospheric effects, ect.. in the gaming enviroment the other high end cards were meant to make the material your card views. "Oxygen GVX210 delivers high-end geometry and rasterization graphics acceleration on a single AGP card for the most demanding workstation professional. By integrating two 3Dlabs GLINT R3 rasterizers, the new generation GLINT Gamma G2 geometry processor and 64 MB of memory on a single card, Oxygen GVX210 boosts the interactivity of huge models with a 256-bit memory bus and Virtual Textures that shatter the limitation of onboard graphics memory capacity." I hope you dont take this wrong but I believe that e-on software wrote there program to take advantage of high end features of some computers and cards but also create it to work for and run well on the"gaming" machine for lack of a better word. In the manual it says if you have problems with the viewport displays to change them. Sorry for going off on a tangent all :) but it does matter!!

XP? Cause there is a real big bad bug with that program..... 60 Mhtz tops don't matter how big you monitor is...

You can't compare VUE with Wing3D and Metasequoia ! They have very basic rendering engine.
The only software that is usefull in your test is probably Cinema 4D XL (I don't know for Rhino). But C4D XL is faster for anything ! and THIS is not a $20 shareware application.

Yeah, Rhino's like 600 bucks or something, as well. Yes, it IS very fast, but you can easily bog it down too. I do all the time, especially after converting a NURBS object to a polygon mesh.

Or is it always a comprimise between workstation graphics and gaming graphics performance? I do so little gaming, I would lean towards the former, but would prefer something that can "do it all". Any such creature? Plus dual monitor support? I don't want much, do I? :) jon

The closet I have found to the do it all card was the Elsa Gloria II I had in my last computer at the place I worked previously. I lean towards the workstation myself plus it keeps my system clean. I have two computers at home 1 - with the Ultra 64 Nvidia and the other with the Oxygen GVX 210 and I rarely play games so I just think it comes down to a question of how much does someone want to pay to play :)

vibes30: If you read my text once more I'm sure you can see that I in general don't disagre with you when it comes to the role the cards have as I mentions some exeptions to the statment about what difference the card has but... As I said. If they are trying to use fancy OpenGL stuff then it should be an option to use that or the more basic OpenGL stuff that works an all cards. Just as you can select wire mode it should be possible to select a smooth shade whithout the fancy stuff. But the strange thing here is that even wire mode is extremely slow. Can you explain why even this minimum OpenGL mode works so bad. Or do you mean that it tries to display fog and atmospherics in wiremode to? And no. There is no fog or atmosphere in any of the OpenGL views in the compared applications. I think it's a nice ide of E_On wanting to give us that. But it SHOULD be an option if it only works on some card. As it is I (and probably the mayority of the users as I don't think many buys the dedicated stuff) have to chose from catastrophic uppdate times or no shading at all making the screen look like something made for a Vic64;)! In short. What Vue offers is when it comes to the views: You can get the most fancy stuff there is, or you can get almost nothing. There is nothing in between!

Just sent the refresh rate info to E-ON. I also started to download Bryce 5. I hate the Bryce inteface but as far as I remeber It does not take all day for a shaded screen refresh so I will give it another try. Also I remember that I have seen another 3D landscape application that had a Vue trade in offer. If someone knows witch it was pleace let me know.

Hellborn, I'm sorry to hear that you are so unhappy with Vue. But it is primarily a 3D scene creation/rendering program, and THAT it does very well. I agree it could stand to be faster in some respects, but I for one have learned how to get around that, as have most of us, in favor of the render quality and the realism of the plants, terrains, materials, etc. Bryce 5 is a great program too, from what I have heard and seen, but although, yes, you can move objects around quicker in Bryce, it renders much slower. To me, the ease of use, the material editor, the World Browser, the render quality and speed, the realistic (and highly editable) plants, and the amazingly intuitive interface (not to mention the price) far outweigh any of the down sides Vue has. That might have been World Builder you were thinking of. From what I've read, you need a degree in astrophysics and quantum mechanics to use it. But to each his own. I hope you find something that makes you happy, and works the way you want it to.

Ohh I havent given up on Vue yet. I just whant the re evaluate the alterantives. Vue has it plus as well as it's minus sides i will have to se what E-ONs answer is first. I'm also very dissapointed with the quality of imported .obj models as they look like crap compared to when I import the same model into other applications. I have no idea what Vue does to the .obj models but I often get strange render artifacts. The fact that it is a 3D scene creation/rendering also means that it must be able to handle 3D models ;) and as OpenGL working as it does this gets extremly frustrating. When turning of OpenGL i actually pretty god refresh rates but sometimes scenec only get partially redrawn and if I am to position something it get very frustrating. There is nothing wrong with the image output quality of Vue. I really like it. But if I where to chose between fast view refresh rates and fast image renders I would prefere fast views because when I make the scene up I have to sitt by the computer and I have to be able to se what I do. Image renders can be produced while I am asleep! It's not very likely that I throw Vue away. I will probably keep it and hope for a patch but if they have not fixed this in version 5 I will not upgrade. If I buy Bryce or not that I will have to see...

Get a new video card!!! :)

No way I buy a new video card just to run Vue! My card is not a bad one. It works perfectly in 3D apps except Vue.

well, you could also go into the options screen (within Vue) and set the slider for "instant draw" closer to Fast. Vue does two refreshes in order to display the quad views, an Instant Draw and a Final Draw. Pushing this slider farther to the left will decrease the quality of the instant draw, but also vastly decrease the delay between updates. It will have no effect on the final view quality, so if you want to see the full shading, just wait for Vue's drawing threads to catch up. In complex scenes or scenes with heavy fog, that can take a while, even on a fast machine. Hope this helps you out!