Why is it, that of late, all you see when you open up the Poser galleries is half naked, or fully naked broads with swords? Or standing there, flaunting the T&A like its Renderotica, or a damned Playboy magazine? Don't these artists have TALENT do something besides a nude? I mean come on! Really, I've never posted a true nude as I have yet to do one that is truely classy, such as the work that Dalinise, Stormi, Debbie M, Magnet, and a few others do. I don't mind Tasteful nudes. But when all you see is some one buying a texture, slapping it on vicky, putting a sword in her hand and giving her a lewd look and pose, well, the image reeks of teenage male testosterone. Its like "OOOH I CAN DO NAKED BABES AND NOT GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT!". Please. I've seen classier images in a smut magazine. I want to know what part of the community thinks of this. Maybe I'm just a lil old fashioned as I enjoy tasteful artwork, not T&A. Thanks. ~Blade~

Here we go again. If you don't like 'em, don't look. Is that so hard?

not what I'm talkin bout Mosca, and you know it. Its about the actual work itself. Think about it.

oh, geesh, is it THAT time again? I guess next week is the Hot20 , it usually comes up right after the gallery and nudity rants... :-)

I think the good thing about Art, is that everyone has different tastes.We are all here to display diiferent views on ART.While some like "women" with swords, some like to display "women" with see thru underware in front of a fireplace. Both are tasteful and both are "ART"........

nah. I'm not to worried about the Hot20. Sheesh, I never bother looking at it. I just wanted to hear other peoples opinions on this subject, not spark people off LOL.

While I agree with you Vicky (naked and other wise) is overdone I like to do enticing or erotic pieces, however if you look at my gallery I like to do other stuff too. that might be the place to start look at others whole gallerys?? are they just naked Vicky or do they do other stuff?? Personally I like a range, now I will admit the naked stuff gets more attention, and some time we do our art for attention. anyne that ells you other wise is unusuall. perhaps if we paid attention and commented on the non naked work, it might encorage more non naked work?? what do you think. I started posting on Render to get feed back I live in a home that has few good art critics.

I think that is exactly right tonymouse. The non nudes rarely get attention or comments to encourage the creators to continue posting them. Maybe they have bunches and bunches of non-nudes sitting on their hard drive (or on CD) and they don't post them because no one ever seems to notice....

Good question. But very poorly worded. I expect all of you who address his question. To concentrate on his question. And not how it was worded. ScottA I'll be watching.

LOL, yep LadySilvermage, I am one of those who have non nudes sitting on my hard drive, I, myself, do not "nudes" as I think sexy is having something left to the imagination. Hence, most stay on my hard drive as the ones I do post are hardly ever looked at. But, I do what I like to do and have fun so.......

Thank you lady S M, I noticed very soon after I started posting my non naked stuff it recieved little attention. the ones that wanted the most feed back on it does not stop me from posting but it would be nice to hear more. Perhaps we need to fnd ways to encorage them to share their other stuff too.

"Or standing there, flaunting the T&A like its Renderotica, or a damned Playboy magazine?" "I've seen classier images in a smut magazine." Sounds like you're talking about the nudity, not the work as such. Don't like boobies? Don't look.

"that of late"...????? Seems to me it's been this way the whole last year+ I've been here...and I agree so much that I finally quit going to the galleries about 2 months ago..I got tired of smelling the "teenage male testosterone" I feel like in my 40's, I'm too old for the galleries...if I wanted so much T&A's I'd go to Renderotica....

Hard to separate the question from the wording, Scott. Maybe you should rephrase it for him.

Sure Mosca. Why is clothing so hard to find in the galleries? How's that? :-) ScottA

cause Mike doesn't have any.... oh wait - no one looks at nude Mike much either....

BladeWolf, I believe that you are exactly correct. - except that .... reality is sort of like this ... Poser provides the vehicle to allow a non-artist to create artwork(?) (i.e., nude females (and males)) without any, or very little, real artistic talent. Reality is, the world is a constantly changing place and right this minute, some "newby" is loading up Poser for the very first time. That person will see a Poser2 casual male, and think, "big deal." Then they find out that (oh-my-gosh!) there's a nude male and a nude female in my library! Oooooo wheeee! So, they load up Posette or Dork and start playing with poses, lighting, camera angles, etc. Then they get tired of that level. After a while, they discover (nude) texturing and "Voila!", a whole new aspect of the new "artist's" world is opened up. Then they discover Renderosity and say, "Hey, my babe (or guy) isn't too bad looking and I can "post" it for the WHOLE WORLD to see and maybe if I get lucky, someone will post a comment and tell me that I did a "great job!" So, what's wrong with that? Even a dog likes to be patted on the head once in a while, no? And, so they post ... (some good, some bad, some mediocre) their artwork and wait for their "pat on the head." It's the real world, and it takes all kind of people. I, also, agree with Mosca. Maybe this anecdote will help clarify that. **************************************************** An elderly woman who lived in a apartment building called the local police to complain that a man in an apartment was undressing in an open window and that she was highly offended by this. She said he did it every night at eight o'clock. Well, the police finally agreed to send a couple of officers to the woman's apartment that night to observe. Sure enough, at about eight o'clock, the man across the way started to undress right in front of his open window. One officer observed, "But, ma'am, you can only see him from the waist up!" "No, no!," she shouted, "Come over here and stand on this table. Then you can see everything!" ********************************************************** I guess the moral is .... If ya don't like the view, don't stand on the table! Last time I checked, nobody forced me to: buy a computer hook it up to the internet turn it on access the www log on to Renderosity click on the "Poser Forum" or "Art Galleries" link prowl around until ... Ah Ha!!! I've found something I don't like. Now, let's see, who can I report this to? Oh, I know, the admins, they'll handle it ... cheers, dr geep <---------------------------(getting down from table) ;=]

One way to combat this is to look at non-nude pictures and comment on them. If more non-nudes get attention, people may put more effort into them.

An attempt to answer this seriously without beating an already deceased and increasingly decaying equine. Why do you see so much nudity in the Poser gallery? Because, at least in part, it is very difficult to to good realistic looking clothing in Poser. There is no way to easily simulate the effect gravity (and other things) have on cloth. Also the reason you rarely see seated female figures that are clothed. Most of the clothing female figures do not bend properly when the female poser model is in a seated postion. I think if Poser did clothing better you'd see more clothed figures. And, also, of course, because nudity gets positive feedback in the galleries in terms of views and comments.

People (and Vicky) come naked from their creators. Nude bodies are beautiful (unless you've seen Norman Mailer in a speedo lately--ew!). Nudity in art places the subject in a deeply vulnerable and undeniably, essentially human context. Anyway--yawn. This whole debate is almost as silly as John Ashcroft spending $6,000 for curtains to conceal the Justice Department's bare-breasted statuary; I can't imagine anything more provincial and idiotic, frankly. Tits. Butts. Weiners. Pussies. Big fucking deal. Don't like 'em? don't look. The people who are truly obsessed with nudity are the Ashcrofts of the world; why else would it upset them so?

True... my wording was a lil... pissy. I can't help it. There's so much more that you can do with Poser than just a naked man or woman. I've done only two pics with a woman in lingerie. That's been it. The rest have been mainly facial studies as I am trying to work my way into Maya and get myself taught there so that I may be able to create worlds and the like. The main is issue, as stated by geep and several others is yes, I look at more non-nude pictures and comment on them, but why can't people work on originality? What is so hard about breaking yourself away from a naked model and concentrating on creating something like a Facial Study, or true figure studies, and the like. Yes clothing is hard to come by, and even harder to pose and the like, but that's what makes it a challenge. That's what makes it real art, the ability to creat an image from adversity and imporbabilities. I applaud artists such as Blackhearted who has done work with more than just a naked model, some of his work is just breath taking. Same with Stormi, Dalinise, Debbie M, Catharina Przezak(hope I spelled that right). I've only had poser since August of this year, as it was a late birthday gift from a friend of mine, but I've learned sooo much in that time. At first I was thrilled, oooh naked models! WOOO! Then I began thinking, maybe I can use this to get a visual on some of the characters in my stories, and what not. That is when I bought Vicki and Mike, went nuts getting textures and the like, and even tweaking the ones I bought to suit my needs. If the average poser user would learn the software, then you'd see less nudes, and more complex images. I am currently working on my 4th Face Study using StefyZZ's Asia, as she is truly a texture guru. I'll also be doing some with Michael as well. Maybe what we need to do here at Renderosity is put a section up that is totally dedicated to nothing but the naked human form, and allow people to post there. I dunno, maybe I'm just off my rocker.

And Mosca, its not the nudity that gets my goat, its that every time you turn around, its the SAME IDEA with no twist, no originality, NOTHING. That's what gets me.

There I agree with you. Maybe all the nude-renderers should do non-nudes for a week, and all the non-nude renderers should do only nudes for a week. Maybe then we'd all have a better understanding of the challenges inherent in both.

BladeWolf,

The Japanese have a saying ...

"A thousand mile journey is started with a single step."

Some people take a second step and go no further ...

Some only go a few miles ...

And, others progress and continue to do so.

I believe that same thing applies here at Renderosity.

We have a very wide variety of "artists" here from all around the world; all age groups, all genders (opps, was that not PC? ;=] ), and all levels of talent.

That is part of what makes this a great place, the variety.

I'm no genius, and my artistic talent wouldn't fill up but a small percentage of one of Posette's fingernails.

However, I love this place ...

• because -

... of the extremely wide variety that I see here.

I usually learn something new everyday.

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

I don't always do nudes, but I enjoy doing them. Not due to testosterone (being female) but because I find that style of art more to my liking. Some aren't even nude... there are at least 2 wearing rosary's and one that's pierced in plenty of places ;-) I equally enjoy doing images that are clothed/multi figured and have somewhat of a story behind them, none of them get much attention, but I enjoy doing them and so I just continue on... I have seen some images here where teh artist always does the same cheesy badly done nudes (one artist in particular comes to mind) but I know that and so I never look at his stuff. I also don't get offended by it - I just shrug and move on.

That too, but its more or less about originality. I usually do a small series of things, like my facial studies, and I've also had a commission for a free work come in from a person here. That and I've been working on some sketches for a new peice, based off of Command & Conquor and a post apocolyptic war, from a short story I read in a local writers magazine. That's what I'm getting at. Where's the originality?

Well said Lady Silver Mage. And your work is tasteful, same with yours Geep. And I love this place too, I'm working on getting the webring up on my site so I can let peeps know all about this place. It just frustrates me when all you see in the thumbnails is some bimbo with a sword. Again, going back to originality.

Ok, this is to "whom it may concern."

I have a pet peeve. Vicky's eyes.
(BTW, is it Vicky, or Vickey, or Vicki, or ...... ???)
You can spot 'em from a mile away.

Here's the challange ...

Using only Vicky ..... make her face NOT look like Vicky.
[no offense, Vickey, you have beautiful eyes - it's just that they seldom appear to change]

Any takers?

If you post an image, it MUST be face ONLY. [nude is ok!] ;=]

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Thanks BW. ;=]

Well, my own oft-cited theory, Blade, is that Poser provides something of an outlet for (mostly) guys who have trouble with the real world and the real women you find there. Sure, Vicky was based on a real model, but she probably no more represents that model than Kupa, who was the original model for Mike, represents him. Both have been idealized and enhanced, and it's that idealization that has been both bane and boon to Poser. Why the nudity then? Well, aside from the obvious reason above, clothing is also a bit of pain sometimes. When you can't even pose something as simple as a t-shirt and a pair of jeans without having to fiddle with half a dozen things in the process (Hello, Curious, are you paying attention here???), I can't blame people for not wanting to deal with garments on their models... unless, of course, it makes those models look "oooo... sexy..." =) As for everything in the galleries looking alike, you're right there, no question. When it's always the same mesh to begin with, the chances of anything unique is pretty rare right off the bat. And when you watch the galleries, you'll find things ride in waves: we're finally (I think) over the "temple" stuff, save in the odd image or two. People are just marking time till the next Big Prop is released, and then we'll see render after render based on that. It's no different from the real world: a show like Friends is successful, then next season we see lotsa Friends-clones, none of which have the sparkle of the original. Well, same here: we have a few artists who are amazing at what they can do with a naked broad, a helmet, and a sword =), while the rest are doing acceptable copies. Damn, that sounded harsh. But it's also true. But there are a few out there who really push this program in some very cool directions. Davidho and Dragongirl immediately come to mind, and I'm sure others will recommend their own favourites as well.

Until abstracts took all the fun out of art-- personal opinion-- you saw a whole lot of naked wimmen in any art gallery. The objectification of women is a common and boring topic in many art circles. [anything I post is all my opinion so I usually don't use the ubitquitous IMO] I'm female and well over 50. I did a nude for the first post I made in the gallery because I didn't know how to put clothes on Vicki. Truth. But I also like nudes, of all kinds, gulp, even Norman Mailer if Annie Leibowicz will photograph him, though I'd prefer Keith Richards if we want to get scary. The last few things I did were clothed but if I get more odd shaped figures, and I have, they will probably be nude because it's hard to clothe them. I do think that there has been a tendency to overlook the Nudity check box lately and that might take care of the problem for people who are fed up with nakedness. Though I'm betting it will not. I think it might help to know this is an ongoing debate in art in general. But this old lady votes for T and A.

Not everyone is capable of original thought (I've taught college-level creative writing for a long time; I know what I'm talking about here). So what? Let them post; that's what this place is all about. Challenge yourSELF, Bladewolf. I mean, I generally find head-shots about as interesting as 2% milk--never bother with 'em (hey--there's Vicky gazing soulfully into the middle distance! Woo-hoo!). Sci fi and fantasy also generally spring from the same tired junkyard of worn-out cliches. The lesson is that what's capital-O "Original" to you might very well be incredibly tedious and nerdy and trite to oothers.

IMHO the biggest limitation of this medium as a form of "art" is that unless you are willing to become a modeller you simpy cannot fully express what's in your imagination. As a sketch artist I can visually recreate almost anything I can imagine. It's hard to justify expending long hours learning to "model" a helmet say when I can draw it in 20 minutes (and if it doesn't look right I can spend another 20 redesigning it). So instead I find a really good skin texture and mess with the dials to create a unique face, pose and pleasing (to me) bodyshape. That allows me to focus on the one area where I have the ability to freely express myself, namely the environment. Messing with magnets and scaling to get people's clothing to fit is a necessary evil and in a perfect world wouldn't be necessary at all. Hopefully that's the direction future editions of Poser will be taking (The Victoria 2 morphing clothing is a Godsend). I've seen beautiful pieces airbrushed on motorcycle gastanks but to require an artist to manufacture the motorcycle first would be a pain in the ass. Very few pieces of art are critiqued based on what clothes the models are wearing or not wearing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL Oh well I'm rambling. I love the nudes with the cool lighting and environments.many are really inspiring. Keep posting them. Mark

No matter how much you like doughnuts, if you eat nothing but doughnuts for breakfast, lunch, supper, and snacks in between, day after day, week after week, you're going to get pretty sick of them after awhile. Yes, there are some damn nice nudes in the gallery, but how good can even the greatest doughnut you've ever had really taste if that's all you've eaten for six weeks? It's not about nudity, at least for some of us. If 99.9% of the pics in the gallery were, say, alien creatures, we'd be reading rants about "Why the hell doesn't anyone do anything but aliens!". Yes, you can always just avoid the Poser gallery, as I usually do, but that's an awful shame for the few people who DO actually post something else. And it's also a shame for the people who do really spectacular nudes. But I don't foresee that changing any time soon. So either skim through the nudes until you finally find something else worth looking at, visit the other galleries (which aren't so one-track-minded), or, if you really want to make a difference, POST something else, fight the current, be a part of the solution. Not that we can't rant once in a while, but it's all been said a hundred times and nothing changes, so why bother? But still, yes, you are right, the Poser gallery is horribly monotonous, and saying so doesn't mean you're a prude or anything, just that you'd rather have a more balanced diet. But the Poser gallery is just a doughnut factory, I'm afraid, so head over to the Carrara gallery and have a pizza and some beer, then maybe stop over to the Amapi gallery for a burger and fries, then... And this, of course, accounts for Legume's popularity, by the way. That man's gallery is a buffet! Unfortunately, his cooking tends to cause a lot of indigestion...;)

It's been this way since the beginning. Try sorting the gallery by reverse order of what's new... You'll see the same stuff only with cheaper quality models and less powerful rendering engines. Go to a museum. It will be full of T&A and nude women. This is called life, it's the way art has always been.

I think we have Frank Frazetta and Boris Valejo (excuse me if I totaly mangled their names) to thank for the nude chicks in impractical armor with swords and little else. To be honest, these 2 artists are so popular and famous and their artwork inspired a lot of people to do the same kind of thing. Thanks to Poser and some skilled modelers, many folks without artistic skills now have the ability to create their barbarian babes. I got into poser because I wanted to be able to make alien fiends versus damsels in distress images and I couldn't for the life of me draw worth a crap by hand, so Poser is my tool, and those are the types of images I LIKE TO MAKE. I guess that's what it all boils down to, you see so many of those naked chicks with swords images, it's because that's the type of image those people like to make. Plain and simple. They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing. my 2 cents. Davo

"Oothers?" Did I just make up a word?

"They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing." Bravo. That pretty much covers it for me. How come other people are always better at saying what Imean than I am?

Pats Geep on head*"Good Geep,Good Geep"** Gags on Asia commentSick of Asia, she not so great( ya, I know 'Blasphemy!!') sorry,...she ugly. And I'm bitter that I wasted my money on her** I have 11 images in my gallery, none of which are nude, most of which NEVER get comments. And I uploaded my 4th marketplace 'nude' texture 2 days ago, will be out soon. 'Ashcroft IS a twit Bladewolf: 'its the SAME IDEA with no twist, no originality, NOTHING. That's what gets me. ' Same thing to you perhaps, but maybe that person just spent 4 hours trying to get that image to work out right, and they were proud of it ,even if you don't like it. I once saw an exhibit where someone took a crap in a mason jar, and filled it with urine, then called it art. And actually got great reviews by the local liberial media. Anxiously awaits being throgged for Asia comment. Sorry, but sometimes I just feel like beating a dead horse. They're easier to hit and make less noise.(That was a joke PETA!)

Nudity was interesting in Poser 2 and 3 several years back, when clothes were scarce, but now the novelty has worn off, except for people who just bought Poser 4 and never had fun with nude women before. So you can expect nude women with swords as long as there are new Poser customers.

;=]

Boy, this thread is so fast... ... that it's hard to keep up. Thanks Electric ............ I needed that! ;=]

(VS) "...Kupa, who was the original model for Mike..." OT, but thought it was an exec. at DAZ or Zygote -- no?

"Sorry, but sometimes I just feel like beating a dead horse. They're easier to hit and make less noise.(That was a joke PETA!)" That all depends on how hard ya hit 'em, don't it? ;=]

What davo said. Thus ends my long commentary on this constant and never ending debate. ;o)

Go to a museum. It will be full of T&A and nude women. This is called life, it's the way art has always been Art's one thing. A woman spread-eagle with her crotch in yer face ain't art, sorry. That's some schmuck whacking off over the hot babe pic he just made. We use this term "artist" as though everyone who picks up a mouse is an artist, and that just ain't so, folks. Sorry. Fully a third of the images in the Poser gallery are interesting sketches and first-drafts, but they ain't art. Art's more than just an interesting arrangement of broadswords and boobs; it has to communicate something. Otherwise, it's just the "artist" sitting in a corner whacking away and expecting everyone to notice. Yeah, that's harsh, but so is life. Right around the corner from me are no less than four art galleries, and I get to see what passes for "art" on a regular basis. Know what? It might look nice over the sofa, but it ain't art. And most of the stuff we have here? It might look nice when it's 3AM and you didn't score with the chicks in the bar, but it ain't art.

That, also, was a joke PETA! ;=] Gettin' tired of typing, gotta go do some useful work. Interesting thread, though. See ya later gang. cheers, dr geep ;=]

OT, but thought it was an exec. at DAZ or Zygote -- no? Someone posted Steve's wedding picture in here. It was Michael, all the way down to the wedge cut.

I am not a fan of Asia either. SteffyZ's new work looks very interesting, but Asia and Yuma and the like just don't interest me. That and I am tired of looking at her. =D We can get thrashed together, Aardvark. =) I have three nudes in my gallery. One has 765 viewings and 16 comments and another has 675 viewings and 14 comments. Those are my two top viewed pieces. The pieces I am most proud of tend to get a lot of comments but very few viewings. Shrug. I don't care. I make art for myself. If someone thinks I am not original, I don't care. I don't find "studies" to be very interesting, personally, although there are a couple in my gallery. I get some great support from people in my gallery and have found a lot of new artists whose work I like by clicking on their names. So if you want more "originality" support the artists who do the work you like.

So if you want more "originality" support the artists who do the work you like. Amen. The good lady says it all.