I don't understand at all what bebops picture has to do with anything..... maybe just proof that his gallery is still up?

As for the constant trouble between the 2 well, the C& D is gone now so there went the proof. But I do recall seeing it frequently near the end - before bebop was banned. I also recalled that it was generally bebop who stepped into any thread BH commented on and would aim his comments at BH - regardless of the the actual thread. I think things between the 2 had simply gotten just too heated.

I think that considering the clique behavior that is often shown at 'rosity it is hard to believe the admins would have banned bebop and lost all of his store items without proof. In fact I know that the admins here require proof before banning, it isn't done lightly - so obviously they were supplied some proof and not just "lies"

As for light dial settings, it is obvious without them that the idea was to recreate BH's lights - probably to stick it to him. After all it's the exact same nuumber of lights in the same tones. It was a definite "thumbing of the nose".

I liked Peter, but he really does need to step back and if he hated BH then ignore him. Be adult about it.

Lastly "rosity isn't a public board - it is privately owned. They have the right to refuse anyone they choose and set up their own rules,we may disagree with them but this isn't a democracy - no website is, it is a tyranny (I used to have that on my website lol) as are all websites. If we want the privilege of visiting, posting, downloading, etc. then we need to follow the rules (if not agree with them) or we can leave. But if someone is banned - they are banned because the admins decided to do so, that is the way it works. Sneaking in is like trespassing into someone's backyard in the middle of the night - it's wrong, even if you disagree with the reasons for it.

your bebop nick has been banned once, a 48 hr ban because you were making personal attacks in C&D and the galleries. it was banned again, permanently, a week later along with both of the aliases you created to continue your attacks. (User bebop banned - This user was banned for continuing personal attacks on another member despite being warned multiple times by the administration, and further creating clone accounts to continue the fight.) Forum News it was just banned now, the fifth account of yours that has been banned, for doing the same. youre now working on your 6th banning. get that through your head, you retarded little child. youre not welcome here, and as for your attacks on me - youve never been more to me than mild comic relief, something to relieve the monotony. its actually quite amusing that youve spent hours plagiarizing my light set, trolling my gallery, creating parody images, etc. i can imagine you obsessively hunched over your little computer, seething with hatred, chanting 'im going to get him this time' like some impotent cartoon villain. i hope you sleep well, peter. but listen - its not a total loss on your part. at least youve brought a smile to my face. love, -gabriel

0.o

This is all about a LIGHT SET?? Remind me to copyright the arrangement of items on my desk sometime.

Well, since no one at admin seems to be interested in stepping up to the plate on this, I have a suggestion: BH, Bebop -- both of you: send me your light sets and I'll post a complete study on both -- dial settings, dimness settings, screen captures, the whole lot. Send the original files so I can see the creation and modification dates. I will be completely impartial on this because, quite frankly, you're both starting to piss me off with this. Now, if both of you want this settled once and for all, the offer stands. My e-mail is virtuasite@aol.com. Can't make it any simpler than that.

Somewhere in the middle of all the 'posin' and the 'light setting'... we forgot the 'love'. Isn't that always the way? (sadly rhetorical)

And what the heck, let's make it even more interesting. If neither of you chooses to take me up on this, I'll put it to the community and ask them to send them to me, and we'll get the information that way. But one way or another, this is gonna be settled, understood? You two have been carrying on like this for far too long.

virtual, do you even bother to read the threads you post in? this has very little to do with the light set itself, it has to do with his attacks on renderosity members and the fact that he keeps returning to renderosity under aliases after he has been banned several times to continue them. the light set was just his final attack, the one with which he finally stepped out of the grey area of TOS interpretation. this is no longer in the grey area, he has broken the law, and i was finally able to take action. id be glad to send you both light sets, mine from the store and his from his website. if you dont trust me in providing the original file, then get it from jenyk or from someone else here who has downloaded them and you know is not bebop. 'I'll put it to the community and ask them to send them (the light sets) to me, and we'll get the information that way' - ill pretend i didnt hear that. keep in mind that my set is in the marketplace.

do you even bother to read the threads you post in? Yes, I do, thanks ever so for asking, and if you want to keep any of the points you've scored, you'll shut up and note that I'm trying to focus on the issue that seems to drive this particular thread: that damn lighting set. the fact that he keeps returning to renderosity under aliases I'm aware of that, as is just about anyone else who knows his work. No need to state the obvious. he has broken the law, and i was finally able to take action And now I have to ask you: are you reading this thread? There seems to be more than a small issue over who actually developed it and when that's somewhat key to whatever is the problem between you two. I don't know what started this animosity, and frankly I don't care. But I've watched this sandbox mentality for far too long, so let's just address this one thing that you both claim as your own, okay? id be glad to send you both light sets As I told you in the IM, send them on. If anyone else wants to send Bebop's version on as a double-check, that would be appreciated. And no disrespect to you, BH: it's simply a way of making sure this is kept completely above board. ill pretend i didnt hear that Pretend whatever the hell you like. If either or both of you wish to assume to martyr's position, it makes no difference to me. Get off yer damn high horse and send the stuff, okay?

Oh, and let me add one small thing here. Should anyone out there think this offer is some kind of scam to warez a lighting preset, I'm gonna put it as bluntly as I know how. Get real.

Im confused....Way back on post 15 Jenyk posted that she sent out a notice about copyright materials (light set). One would think that she would have to compare the 2 light sets before she could ethically send out such a complaint. There have been others, like myself that have purchase Blackhearted's lightset, that also have compared the 2 light sets prior to this posting. That information was sent to the mods weeks ago.

true enough, Ivy, but I'm gonna make this so thorough there can be no question. If you read through the thread, some people aren't quite as certain one way or the other. I'd just like it settled with something concretely documented. Now, again, I'm happy to do this because I want to get this matter resolved. I've seen it too many times now, and I've not seen anyone post any sort of hard-number results in the threads. Let's just do it and get it over with so we can al move on, okay?

VirtualSite- I do have the lightset from the Eaglesgift site, from a while ago. I would be willing to buy the BH set to compare, but I do not know enough about light sets to know what to look for. Can you give me some idea what to look for? Also, BH may have removed his set and replaced them with Bebops set so they do match by now. I think that could be very likely the way these two are acting! I also think is is more likely that Bebop created an equal set of lights to BH's, then actually posting an actual copy of his. If that is the case, they would probably be legal. Anyway, please let me know if you think it would pay to buy the BH ones now, or if you agree that it may be too late.

"Also, BH may have removed his set and replaced them with Bebops set so they do match by now. I think that could be very likely the way these two are acting!" its foolish unfounded accusations like these that make renderosity the fun place it always is.

I don't know yet. I've gotten the light sets for both from three sources now, so if there has been any shenanigans, I can find them pretty quickly. And thank you to everyone who sent them; it'll make the cross check comparisons a lot easier. Insofar as what to look for in a light set -- well, I'm not sure what to tell you on that score. I wouldn't buy one without being able to see all of its variations in a Poser render (with no postwork, and that's important). I can tell you that the light sets that were available as freebies at Poserworld were pretty good, but it'd be difficult to say why, exactly. This is something that's pretty subjective. It just depends on what you want to accomplish with your lighting, more than anything else. Insofar as whether or not I would recommend buying BH's set... well, forgive me for demuring on that for the moment. I'd suggest asking someone else, since I can't make that kind of decision until the matter that started this thread is cleared up.

BH- Sorry, but I read a few posts in this thread that said your set was gone for a while and then came back. With your attitude towards Bebop, anything could be possible. It wasn't an accusation, just a statement. I didn't say 'has' or even 'probably has', I said 'may have'.

VS- OK, I hope you share your findings with us. I too would like to have this settled.

"With your attitude towards Bebop, anything could be possible" rwilliams, i think you have things backwards. keep in mind that this person you are so adamantly defending has just had his 5th account banned from renderosity. think hard on that. do you think there might be a REASON hes been banned repeatedly? do you think im that reason? or do you think his own actions - attacks on several renderosity members, violations of the TOS and copyright law - are that reason? if you expect to step into this thread and post logical conclusions and intelligent remarks then i suggest that you read it in its entirety, and not just skim over 'a few posts'.

I think Bebop was rightfully banned from this site by his own actions. I never said I was defending him. I do not even know him any more than I know you. But the fact of the matter is that in this thread we can only hear one side, so I would like to see some facts. I have been coming to this site since it's begining, and have followed most if not all of the threads that you and Bebop clashed, including the ones in C&D. What he did was wrong. Your attitude didn't help. Now I just want proof of your claim, and you haven't provided it, which is your right. So I hope VS will provide. So please sit back and wait for the results.

Okay - let me chime in AGAIN. I bought Blackhearted's lightset before it was removed for that short duration. When I saw that someone was giving away a free set of lights that looked really decent, I thought to myself: Yea! Can never have enough nice lighting sets. ... when I saw the name of the file (which was very similiar to the title that BH has his called and the first obvious attempt at a snub on Bebop's part). I installed them and switching back and forth between the sets, I noticed that for most appearances they were exactly the same. Even what the individual lights were called were somehow a spin-off of what BH has named his. Taking a closer look at the actual settings, what I recall noticing was that Bebop had made modifications so minor that IT in itself read as a mockery. Even at that most of the lights were in the exact same positions. I can only assume that VirtualSite's experiments will turn up the same thing. I didn't take a deep, scientific look at them. I knew instantly that it was a rip-off, so I notified the proper authorities so they could look into the problem and determine the exact violation.

Personally I wouldn't buy ANY light set and the ones shown above I wouldn't download for free. I am quite ignorant of the behaviour imputed to Bebop that got him banned. The one thing I do know is that the wonderful textures he has generously made available for free have given me much pleasure. I think the Poser community is the main loser here.

So here's the drill, in case anyone's interested. I leave on Saturday for the New England Theatre Conference and some business in NY. I'll be taking my laptop and these files with me and posting what I find when I get home at the end of the month. Yeah, a few weeks waiting. Life sucks, don't it... =) See you then.

Take care VS, hope you have a productive time. But for heaven's sake, we don't need to wait two weeks for the comparison. :) If you want to send them to me, I'll have comparisons done by tomorrow afternoon. I've been doing a number of texture comparisons for vendors to help them spot infringements in the Marketplace, this shouldn't be any more difficult. Thanks, take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words.

Thoroughness in everything, Snow. God is in the details. =) I appreciate the offer, but I started this, and I want to see it through. And yeah, it'll be a while, but what's a couple of weeks at this point?