Okay, I sent a message to the guys at Corel to verify Brycetech's assertation that Bryce 6 won't run on Win 9x. Here was their prompt reply : ******************************************** Hello, Corel has not released any information regarding the future development of Corel Bryce. This includes information relating to which operating systems will be supported and which ones will not. Corel has never released such information and likely will not release any information regarding any of its products that are in development until they reach the Beta stage. As such, you may want to consult your source to determine where they received the information that they provided as it is not fact, but only speculation. Only information communicated via Corel's website (www.corel.com) is guaranteed to be credible and as information concerning development of Corel Bryce 6 is available, it will be posted here. Best Regards, John Corel Corporation ***************************************** And that should take care of that whole subject for now. (grins, burps up a little fireball)

And that should take care of that whole subject for now. (grins, burps up a little fireball) In approximately a hundred words Corel manages to say absolutely nothing one way or the other and you think that's a good thing? A one word reply would have been so easy- just a yes or a no. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? (good thing I don't really care...)

Well now, jval, not to spawn any animosity, but maybe John at Corel wasn't speaking monosyllabically enough for you to understand. To restate, John said, "Corel has never released such information and likely will not release any information regarding any of its products that are in development until they reach the Beta stage." That means, NO, Brycetech's full of it. So, according to Corel, Brycetech is closing down his site based off of speculation only. I'm not involved with the politics, I don't care either way myself, only that controversy based off of speculation is an attention getting device more than anything. "There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others.", to quote Randall from Clerks...

Hi Shadow, No animosity here either and you might be quite correct that BryceTech is "full of it". I don't know either way. All I am saying is that John could have said yes, no or maybe. Instead he said only "We didn't tell before and we're not telling now." As I have no further information than I did before this his reply, whether monosyllabic or polysyllabic, remains essentially meaningless. It is true that very brief answers can be too limited. On the other hand, why use so many words to say nothing when a single word could have said so much? When people hide behind words I tend to become suspicious and while his reply does not allow me to conclude that BT is right nor does it prove he is wrong. Personally I don't really care if B6 requires the latest OS. The world changes and if we want to remain a part of it we must change with it. If we don't want to change I see no reason that B4 or B5 won't remain useful as long as we can maintain our older systems. When we no longer can the question becomes academic anyhow. By the way, as far as I know BT is not closing down his site unless B6 requires the latest OS. It would appear that the jury is still out on either question. In a few months time you may be able to point a finger at me and say "See, I told you so." or perhaps it will be the other way around. But in the end neither result really matters, does it? - Jack

Well, at least he sort of confirms that there will BE a Bryce 6. I just hope they sort the rendering out so it doesn't take a quad-processor hyperthreaded smack-your-bitch-up machine to render volumetrics with more than one light source.

"a quad-processor hyperthreaded smack-your-bitch-up machine" Not good enough Tuttle. I need specifcs like model numbers, prices, availability, manufacturer names and sources! LOL! Seriously though, if there is anything we can count upon it is that upgrades are never ending. My first computer was a real power house that had cassette data storage, a massive 16k of ram and absolutely astounding character based graphics. Animating it was real easy- you just picked it up from here and put it down there...(not easy because it was bigger than my desktop). The sound of the printer rocked me to sleep at night- in fact it rocked the entire neighbourhood. Now I use a 1000mhz notebook with incredible colour graphics, 640megs ram, massive hard disk, built in dvd and cd burner, scanner, tablet- the works. But I know in another 5 years the give away calculator in a cereal box will make this look like a trinket. - Jack

Oh yes, the good old days of computing! Don't get me started. 16K? Luxury! My first computer had 1K and ran at a whopping 0.8MHz! And 22 years on I've got a million X the RAM and it's STILL not enough! Hey - I still remember buying a 16K RAM pack for >100 - with inflation that's about 120,000 X the price of memory today! It must be me being sad, but computers were a hell of a lot more fun in those days... ;)

Ah the good old days. Your memory wasn't that bad. Mine costs about $100 a k. (even mini computers usually only had 4k)You probably won't believe this but my first system set me back about $8-$9,000 and that isn't allowing for inflation. Probably worth about $5 today as a curiosity if I could find a sucker. In some ways it does seem like it was more fun back then but it's a lot easier today. I think I prefer it this way. ps. remember when we thought a 50k program was really, really huge? LOL! A curious coincidence side note. Way back then I once gave a public lecture in Ottawa, Canada, on computer bulletin board systems. The speaker before me was introducing a new desk top publishing system. I don't recall the name but the company later evolved into Corel, the owner's of Bryce.

The speaker before me was introducing a new desk top publishing system. I don't recall the name but the company later evolved into Corel, the owner's of Bryce. < LOL! You missed your chance there - you should have got talking! Then you'd be the one who'd be telling us when Bryce 6 was coming out! ;) Yeah, I remember a friend at school saying he was going to buy a 48K Spectrum. I replied, "You're wasting your money - they're never going to produce a game that's more than 16K!!!"

"...you should have got talking! Then you'd be the one who'd be telling us when Bryce 6 was coming out! ;)" Yeah... but if I were the one stuck wearing a corporate hat I'd probably be so tight lipped I wouldn't be sure what I was saying... snicker. It's easy to bitch from the outside... sigh...

(cackles!) Seriously, you guys made my day, that's why I come here and annoy the uc out of everyone! I'm not quite as O.G. as you folks, though, my first experience was with the TRS-80 and my "prime" was during the reign of the C-64. Doodle, man. Doodle. 16 colors! PIXEL LEVEL ZOOM! I remember Corel Paint, on the Amiga, the first version. I was astounded by the bit depth, I think it was 8-bit color! So when I heard Corel bought Bryce from Metacreations I almost expected a C-64 version...! (or at least a C-128 version...ah, the 1571 was a beauty, wasn't it?) Wind Lab, Plant Lab, Creature Lab, whatever they do I hope somebody remembers that the Unreal Engine is quickly approaching Bryce for power and that maybe it's time to include game-quality preview acceleration. Ahh... to dream! (p.s., if anyone thinks I'm using commas too often, please tell me now...) (grins)

Hey Shadow... Yeah, I remember drooling when the TRS-80 (Trash-80?) came out- made my box look sick and at a fraction of the price. Didn't even have to wire everything together myself! Then the Commodore came out with colour! But somehow after spending all that money I thought it best not to suggest replacing my hardware to my wife if I wanted to remain married... I consoled myself thinking that if my computer was good enough for NASA it was good enough for me. Fortunately she got hooked by computers too and I shudder to think how many systems we've gone through over the years. Sheesh... Tuttle and I are OGs and I'm only 55... Ah well, if you're lucky you'll get to be even older- take that youngster! Sorry to say I didn't find you annoying. And if I can overuse ellipses you can certainly overuse commas. - Jack

Hmmm... as most of this has nothing to do with Bryce I think I'll shut up now. See you around guys. - Jack

wow !!! nice texture shadowdragonlord and BTW you use commas ". . . like blunt instruments. . ." as the guys from Doonesbury would say if they were here, no offense. How did you do that?

Nice texture. As for Bryce 6 - They were more or less as tight lipped about it at Bryce Camp this year as John was. The entire crew at Bryce Camp was fortunate enough to have Conan Hunter's (VP of Development, I think) ear to bend for a whole week and he got an ear full. We talked alot about rendering and trees - there are not enough preset ones. Volumetrics were discussed. While the majority of the attendees were Mac users there were a few (myself included) PC folks. I seem to remember vaguely hearing something about OSs, but I don't remember it as I was too busy learning new tricks. Conan was very open and attentive to all our suggestions. Corel is merely in the planning stages of Bryce 6. I've razed them repeated because they don't give Bryce enough attention in their newsletters and such. I know others have too. Judging from my last Corel newsletter, they've heard us. Sorry I can't offer much more.

Bryce 6, I have been contacted by friends I haven't heard from in over two years. In each case I had to promise not to let the cat out of the bag, and since they are reading this post, mum is the law. What I can tell you is that antiquated OS's will NOT be supported. So what? What kind of referred weeny-osis would lead anyone to toss in the towel for such a lame claim? I hope I have misspelled a few words so as to diminish my credibility, thus sparing the feelings of the weeny-of-the-first-part. Bryce 6 will kick butt. -Gear PS- Poser/Bryce Bryce/Poser (thats all I'm gonna say.)

[[ What I can tell you is that antiquated OS's will NOT be supported. ]] Doesn't that have to mean it will be Linux-based and (yeccchhhh) Windows [ :P ] will no longer be supported at all? ;o)

"weeny-osis" sounds kinda, well, weeny-osis itself LOL! While I think BT's reaction is a bit extreme I can't in all good faith fault him. I may be wrong but my reading of his issue is this: Whether because of inadequate hardware, insufficient funds or an unwillingness to change their OS many Bryce users will be unable to update to B6 if it no longer supports the Win98/ME series. Now such situations are by no means uncommon with newer software editions. But BT contends that there is no particularly good reason why B6 should not support these older systems. If he is correct then it follows that many users will be needlessly left in the cold. I do not know how he arrives at the figure but he places this at about 40% of current users. As a longtime avid Bryce fan he considers this remarkably unfair to a loyal user base. If B6 will indeed no longer support these older systems then he plans to close his site in an act of personal protest. Whether you agree or disagree with him he is at the very least a man of conviction. It's his site and his conviction so surely he may do as he pleases. Personally I would say this is a bit beyond "weeny-osis".

I wonder why the people from Corel can't just make it public knowledge about changes they are planning to make. What harm would it do to say, "we plan on supporting these operating systems, not these." Then give an outlet for opinions at their website directly from their customers...us! Shouldn't input from us matter to them? This could work in other changes, such as faster rendering times (oh please oh please oh please), exportable objects (at least we wouldn't have yet another thread on this), etc. I know they use alpha and beta testers, but wouldn't getting a wider opinion base be win-win for them? Do they lose money by giving us info? Are there competitive products out there that are so similar that Corel fears any innovations will be stolen by them and put on the market before theirs are released? Seems unlikely. All this secrecy confuses me. The more you have your finger on the pulse of your end user, the better off you are. It just makes good business sense.

I had told myself I wasnt going to get in this thread because corel's comments, tho correct..and no PUBLIC statement has been made, they know damned good and well that what the suggested/planned changes are... All the retoric in the world will not change that. jval is correct in his interpretation of what is happening. the 40% is accurate in that is how many current brycers use 98/ME of the 40% that would be affected, 27% will NOT upgrade their OS just to run Bryce. I have no ill will toward corel. Its fine by me whatever they do. I can buy a new system at any time and if B6 does indeed support 98/ME, and not leave so many current users in the dust...I'll happily pop right out and buy a new system and lotsa other stuff and bt will undergo a huge overhaul and upgrade for the new features of B6. if it doesnt, then I'll just spend my money and time elsewhere. shadowdragonlord: the statement "..attention getting device more than anything" is exactly correct. It draws attention before the fact in attempt to make a change now. After it's coded, game over and all the complaining in the world will have no effect. and it all honesty, it may have no effect anyhow... However, as I can see you are insinuating that Im trying to draw attention to myself or my site, I have to say: make no implications that I am doing this for attention to bt.com or myself. Anyone that knows me, knows that such an implication from you (or anyone) is BS. BT

Aye, BryceTech, it was a goad, you know a tactic to get you to say something! I have no ill-will towards you, nor meant any by any of this. I was just uncertain, and I'm stuck with Win 98 for now so it actually affects me or whatever. As the alleged "weeny-of-the-first-part" and a longtime overt enemy of Microsoft, and having just now got my LAN setup (gonna try Lightning out tonight), I am as bitter towards Corel as anyone could be, who doesn't know them personally. Damnit more commas. Bikermouse, all I did was snapshot Virtual Desktop from Hyper-Snap DX4, a silly little app I found on Cnet, then clip his comments in Photoshop, then into Bryce for the rest... Since our messages are white text on black here at Renderosity, the heightmapping was already done, so I just clipped the lower limit in the Terrain Editor and bang! ....(pauses without a comma somehow).... You guys rock, I'll see you in Lightwave Bryce Tech, it's not TOO bad I hear! (cackles)

thank you shadowdragonlord, sorry if I came off a bit harsh. Im a 'big bang for a small buck' kinda person. Not just for me, but for anyone. Bryce was one of the first really cool programs that was inexpensive and let everyone get all excited over creating 3d images on their computer. Bryce's image quality is still (imo) the best of any out there even at its slower render speed and somewhat quirky interface. I dont want to let it go, but I will if I must and probably will turn my attention to another 'big bang for the buck app'. The early favorite would be carrara. :) BT

Speaking of which, check out eovia asap. Aparently there's a sale going on over there. I don't know that it will replace Bryce - but it sure can add to what you do with it. http://www.eovia.com/home.jsp . . . and thanks for the tip shadowdragonlord.

Lets look at it another way. If they maintain the code to run on 98, ME, NT 4, 2000, XP, XPsp1, Mac (8?, 9?, 10? 10.1, 10.2x?) they have a lot more to maintain. When was the last time you could readily buy a 98 machine? hm...may say, 3 years ago? They haven't sold ME for almost a year, and by the release of 6 it will be approaching 1.5 years.

By supporting only newer OS's, they don't have to worry as much about backward compatibility, they can harness the enhancements of the newer operating systems, and they can add features that may have performed horribly on the old systems. What would happen if they added such great features to 6 that to make them all work on 98 the new features (and maybe older ones) ran horribly slowly? Admit it, you would crucify them! Likewise, their target user is not someone who is using 98 first edition (verses SE) and running it on a P2/350 with 96megs of ram. Those who want the features and power of 6 without waiting 6 weeks to render will want to run at least a p3/500 or faster I would assume. Not many Win 98 systems running that.

At what point does Microsoft stop supporting Windows 3.1? When does your local cable company stop broadcasting in B&W? Do you pick up the phone and get a party line? What about using a rotary phone versus touch tone? Exactly...users beg for the newer features and at a certain point supporting the old way isn't practical.

things that are obsolete do not need supporting. Microsoft drops support for an OS after 5 years. If Microsoft keeps it out (they ARE the ones who determining windows os), then whats the rationale here? 98 would be out next year..but ME is still due to be supported for 3 more years. every windows user knows that ME is just 98 with a few bug fixes..so the code is virtually the same. but like I said, there are tons of 3d makers that dont just drop 27% of their users and who actually turn a small profit each year instead of repeating record losses each year. Corel can do what they want and the users will take it from there. BT

BT, Please consider that we will still need your help and the help of people like you, even if Corel has other ideas. Perhaps you don't realize how much you have helped some of us. Whats that? My renders don't appear to be all that good? Well you should have seen them before. Every little bit helps. - bikermouse