Attached Link: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11581&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

okay...the face room was the most interesting thing, to me in p5. now, i come to find out....it will only work with don and judy....groan. this...see link...is what i want to do with 3d art. poser is just not going to ever cut it, though, it will always be helpful in plotting the movements of figures. what do you all want from poser 5? i knew my wants were not realistic...so, i didn't even ponder over ordering it.

It won't work with Vicki or Mike or even Dina?

Toys are never what you expect them to be

no...none of them. daz would have had to pay 30k per each figure that they wanted to work with the face room....that was cl's fee, to set them up. of course, daz, like cl is a small company, and opted not to do that. ah, tisa, so nicely said.

I think too much emphasis has been placed on Mike and Vicky in the first place. They are not integral to the Poser program itself. They are a third party offering and Curious Labs was under no obligation to automatically include them in furthering the power and effectiveness of Poser. I want Curious Labs to continue to think idependently and find new ways to improve Poser. I don't want them held back by trying to keep Daz in the loop. It's not their job. Mike and Vicky are still supported by P5. You can still use them and all their accessories. But once people get going with the new P5 figures and start pushing them to their limits, I predict that Mike and Vicky will not be the sole focus of everyone's attention anymore -- and that's okay by me. And Daz won't stand still either. They'll upgrade their Mike and Vicky figures yet again to take advantage of the new P5 features. It's called "progress" my friends. -jjsemp

I'm pondering a transition to something else if I can set it up for characters. There is a bunch of 3D programs that support bones. Generally I'm still waiting to see what the communities feed back on P5 is going to be on a few issues.

Well I don't see it so tragically, all that DAZ has to do is to make a Face Lab program for the Millennium family. ;-)

I would think Daz would incorporate taht into their next Millenium Figures (would be nice if they had an upgrade to allow existing ones to work). Someone in the community might come up with one as well.

I didn't order Poser 5 either, I think I've got the ultimate face room anyhow (and you too, Poppi s)...ZBrush. I'm not impressed by the P5 hair...Hmann's, Kozoburo's are better from what I've seen so far, and they're exportable and renderable in other apps (I use Lightwave a lot) and the P5 hair isn't. So I'm staying where I am for probably quite a while

in the thread where the price was mentioned Kupa responded thus; "Let's talk a little more about basic business. When structuring a deal, you put out a number. The party you're dealing with counters. The number mentioned above was never countered, even after direct comments from us that we were expecting a counter. nuff said on that... The face room relies on a database of difference vectors and morph targets. We licensed that database at a reasonable, yet significant cost from a third party. We invested many months polishing, tweaking, interfacing and correlating this data to work with both the application and with our set of figures. Every new set of figures added to the face room represents man-months of time. The new figure's head needs to be precisely correlated so that it's unique mesh can be modified by the face room vectors and morphs, it needs testing and fine tuning, and it needs an updater for the database so the new head will be recognized. All this is quite an investment in time and capital. The time on our end has a cost above the physical costs. It costs us opportunites. Finishing the MAC version, updating MAX/LightWave/C4D plug-ins, translating into German, French, Japanese and possibly Spanish, and addressing any issues with the current code along the way. All these experience some fashion of a delay if we divert that focus to correlating new figures for the face room. Those are lost opportunties that need to have some value assigned to them. For that opportunity, we estimate the time needed and established a fee. That fee isn't written in stone. And ultimately only you, the folks that will use the Poser 5 face room can gauge whether it's useful or not. It's all a crap shoot until this lovely technology is in your hands." perhaps Daz is not in a position to come up with even half that $30.000 it's a risky endevor with Poser5 just out, and no knowledge how many people will go the upgrade route. and I might go an extra 10 or 20 for a vicky figure that works in the face room but i'm guessing if sales are not spectacular it'll be far more then that. though he did say that becouse they share the same mesh mike and steffy would count as one figure. judging by his comment about holding up other developement i'm sure our Mac friends will agree that the millis in the face room are not primarily important

I suspect someone will put Judy's head on every imaginable "figure" just to use the face room...

I took the P-5 class from Joe Grover at Dragon*Con and from what I understand the P-5 hair can be exported and rendered in other apps. The polygon count will be real high, but it is supposed to work. Also the face room can be used with other heads, just the neck won't line up right so you would have to tweak that out. I don't really see the face room as a substitute for making high res maps like you can buy already. It seems a little gimicky to me, and doesn't really work perfectly, just kind of a starting point. The new figures have a lot of different and varied morphs and the maps are in the 2,000 pixel range. Also cool the dials are in groups that are collapseable so the list isn't so long all the time. The cloth dynamics are very impressive and will be useful in modeling. Anyway, this is all from memory so don't shoot me if everything I said isn't 100% accurate.

The face room is mostly interesting if you're into making your Poser figure look like a particular person, from photos and such. I see no need for that, so I don't care much. :] Fish

The face room isn't the only new part it's got, what about the morph putty? that will work on the older figures. You can expect to see my face on Don in the near future :) oh the horrors I have in store for you people insert maniacal laugh here Rob

hiya, movida :*)i've been actually trying to model heads from scratch in rhino. which lead me over to the lightwave forum....on my wishlish, dontcha know...and the link i posted. i'm glad you reminded me of zbrush...i think it will use it to finish up my bounty hunter head for the character creators challenge. well, this week should be interesting in the galleries, at least....should be fun to see how folks put p5 to work.

I had expected the Face Room and the Morph Putty to be new methods of creating new morphs (like magnets are). I wish the Face Room were going to be more versitile, but more than that, I wish the Morph Putty were going to be more like a Z-Brush method of making new morphs. Sound now like all it's going to do it let you pull around the mesh and automatically update your existing morph dials. Which means Vicky2 characters will still all have the exact same eye shape. I'm not all that impressed with what I've seen of P5, but I paid $129 for it, and I think I'll get $129 worth of improvements. :) Curious would have had to screwed up every possible thing to make it not worth that price... the new figures alone would have run me as much, for instance, if I bought them separately. Phoenix