Does anyone know of any sites where people create art with Poser rather than throwing together a few products and hitting the render button?

Yes, I do.

too bad you haven't looked around, there are alot of them....

I know too.

Attached Link: http://http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Y&Artist=geoegress

here you go - LOL

Where is the Render Button... is something new in Poser 5?

pretty pictures geoegress. I've looked a lot Dizzie but not found anything yet. There are one or two people who are very good crafts people but not found anything yet that I would clasify as great, or even not so great, art.

Troll.

to bad for you- the fun is in the creating- if you can do better do it don't just spout good bad or other wise PROVE IT YOURSELF

Art is in the eye - maybe you should open yours a wee bit more?? G Look up David Ho...... Look up ToxicAngel...... and open your eyes.....

**I agree with Geo. Let's see some of YOUR art work. I want to see how GREAT and WONDERFUL your poser work is, oh all knowing Goddess and Mistress of art. I am assuming you are female by the way your nick sounds.

Until you put your art where your mouth is, I am going to classify you in the troll category. Someone with no talent or aspirations to do anything but cause trouble.**

Oh yes, I forgot - check out Briggie's gallery - she's a pretty fab artist too......

Yes, Tisa, go look at Lucy's too. This woman can do more then just point and click in poser! Am I allowed to moon people on here??? :P

Attached Link: http://www.pumpkintechnologies.com

Hiya Tisa :) I went to YOUR gallery and noticed that YOU haven't posted any work other then a slightly altered photo. Perhaps before you go complaining about how other people are simply *clicking* and *rendering* , you might try it yourself and show that you know what your talking bout before judging others ! Everyone starts somewhere... at least the people here are *trying* to do something. :) Stephen.

Hey, hey, hey guys......! The fact that someone wants to see art doesn't necessarily mean they have to be an artist. No one needs to 'prove' anything in order to pass comment on what they see. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and replying 'yah boo, let's see how good YOU are then' when they express that opinion is hardly constructive. For all you guys know, Tisa might be from a gallery which wants to display poser art. Does that mean he/she has to also create it? This is not an endorsement of Tisa's opinion. Just pointing out that in an open forum, everyone can say what they feel. mac

strange how defensive you are all getting. The question I asked was are there any sites where Poser is used in an artistic way. If I may elaborate... where Poser is used creatively. I'm sure the fun is in the creating but that doesn't produce a result that is necessarily creative or stirs the spirit of the viewer. I've looked at the pictures by Toxic Angel and yes very good at his/her craft but I'm afraid they leave me cold. I couldn't find a galery by David Ho on this site. Now I'm very pasionate about art. I visit many galleries and very often see things that stir my soul but none of the examples you have mentioned here do that.Skillfull yes but art.. not in my opinion. I suspect that it's not me that needs to open my eyes

I hear ya, maclean - that's why I suggested David Ho & ToxicAngel - those guys do more than click & render. Brigg's got a fabulous Royo style image also. Since Tisa was not more expansive in what he/she was looking for in their search for 'art' I can only guess at what they're searching for. To ask such a broad, general question then nay-say any response tends to get ppl's neck hairs raised....

ack! forgot I came onto the arthur server with another username...... TDW - a.k.a. Lucy_Fur

Maclean and we did- when you don't vote you shouldn't bitch about the goverment- When you don't make art don't complain about it in an ARTIST forum-

strange how defensive you are all getting You come to a forum populated by aspiring artist of various levels and abilities and ask where to find real poser art not just product commercials and you find the passionate response strange? Nah, you're a troll. Oh you may have a point or a thought you wish to get across but your method of questioning mark you a troll. Go find your jollies elsewhere, were busy doing our product placements.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=davidho

Tisa - then how about some examples of work/artists who stir your soul?? Art is like food - so much variety and all still so appealing. It's like saying you like 'pasta'.......well, what kind of pasta - what kind of pasta dishes?? *G* Just as the appreciations of art can differ - so do opinions..... Here is a link to 'davidho's site - sorry for the misspelling - I do hope you can glean something from his surreal images...

Tisa, what makes you an authority on art anyway? I guess since you are the authority on what art is or isn't, Royo, Elmore, Bell and Valejo are not true artists? Most of us do artwork in that style.

I myself am passionate about art, but after majoring in art, I learned that you don't condemn something you don't like as NOT being art. Art work comes from the mind's eye of the person making it. If it is not to your taste, the X button does wonders. (Well, on the net anyway.) Instead of coming here and saying things like "Where is the real art" why don't you come in here and say something like "Where is this type of artwork?"

You can catch a lot more flies with honey then you can with vinegar.

And as far as posting my opinion, I think I have earned the right to excercise my freedom of speech. No one is going to tell me anything different. All I have left to say on this matter is SEMPER FI!

I'm not sure what you are talking about Moonbiter I never mentioned product commercials. As for art that inspires me well everything from Bosch to Constable, Dali to Monet and a lot more. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of Daviho's gallery TheDream Weaver now they are very interesting. Good to find one.

Now that you have found one, could you Please.......

TociAngel, Voodoo, Hobbit,etc have all done some great work, in my opinion. Pixelated images are a new breed of art, and certainly not for everyone, but isn't art in the eye of the beholder? We're all trying to explore this program and learn how to make art that will be stirring. Tisa, people will get defensive when you make inflammatory comments and belittle what they do. Maybe a little less time with art and a little more attention to social skills would benefit you. I've heard of people in forums being referred to as "trolls". Is this an example?

Lets face it Poser must not be her bag of nuts as a tool for art. If she wants old fashion non computer art, there are sites out there just for that. I know my Son has about ruined my scanner trying to get his paintings scaned. But then I have to agree with you all. Why Are you bitching about something your never ever going to like. I'm proud of our Poser gallery!!!! I've been an artist all my life and I feel Poser art is art, no differant than my watercolors are art. Sometimes I whip out crap, but every artist I knows has done this, with a brush or commputer.

Don't demean trolls. Old Ragbash might get offended. I recommend the monicker of Troglodite for Ms Smarty pants.

Attached Link: http://www.cgtalk.com/index.php?s=

tisa...i kind of understand what you are saying. i get so very tired browsing through the poser gallery...and, seeing basic ads for marketplace products getting tons of hits. even though, they are vicki out of the box, posed in some temple or other...with her default crossed eyes. poser does what no other 3d program does...it poses little people without much effort. and, it is cheap. no wonder so many of us swear by it. AND if you can learn a modelling program or 3, render in yet another program...you can become quite "high end" in the cgi world....tip...just don't mention you are using poser for anything...even the joint rotations... here's a link...hope you find some insights, here. thanks for shopping, poppi :*)

Here TISA...try these....tooting my own horn, maybe not good, but perhaps meaningful. I'm not sure what you mean by "art"....it comes in all types. One of my criteria, although my skill is not at a level to attain my visions....yet...is meaning....a story or a message. This I attempted to portray in the below images. If you think they have merit, please expound, or at least possibilities. As far as art, I visited the museum not long ago, and quite frankly, some of what I saw displayed as art, and even considered great art, I found myself questioning how anyone would even consider it art.... image image

Attached Link: http://www.thescreamingelf.com

Tisa, you are more then welcome to go to my website and look. Pendy

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=241028&Start=1&Artist=Tisa&ByArtist=Yes

Tisa - I've just checked your gallery with your one image and while it's pretty... it doesn't do anything for me at all. Sorry. While it's still just a photo/photoshop manipulated image - my question to you is - "is it art?" Of course it is - it's an expression by yourself - and that's what art is. They say one man's art is another mans trash. And the true holds the other way. The work that is being put on display here is in varying degrees beautiful and basic, complex and simple, thought provoking and confusing... etc etc etc. But it is all Art, no matter whether you agree with it or see it that way. Please don't make sweaping statements like how you began this thread without thinking through the repurcussions. Just because you don't like it - doesn't mean it's not art. Renderosity and places like it are our Guggenheim. If you don't like it, please go look at another gallery elsewhere and leave us to do what we love.

ahh come on guys.. it is never a good idea to feed the trolls.. it keeps em coming back for more ;-)

Hey, what's wrong with being a craftsman? Craftmen have produced beautiful and useful items through the ages! I lack the visual abiity to create real art, but if I can create an image that makes someone pause, or laugh, or if it tells a story, I'm ecstatic. My art will never grace the halls of a museum, but when it comes close to expressing what I want, that's enough for me. I suspect a lot of people at Rendie feel that way. Just because you are not a master and may never become a master, does it mean you should stop creating? As for using vendor items, somethings I can't make myself, other things are close to what I wanted to make anyway, so I'd rather spend my effort on the image itself. Just because something leaves you cold doesn't mean it's not art. Ballet and opera leave me cold like Siberian winters. I wouldn't dare deny that they're art. They're just boring art. I'm glad that you found some stuff that you like. There's a wide range of styles and a wide range of tastes, so few people leave here empty. Enjoy!

I cant model. I have the tools... just cant seen to make it work. I rely on talented modelers/ merchants for the things I cant do myself. I dont think it makes my renders less artistic than the next. It takes alot of work to create a good render even with a few purchased products. Some of my most artistic renders have been for market place promos. I view the market place items as tools for the trade. They provide whats needed for image I picture concieve & thats whats important to me.

You can check out my bryce gallery. I use poser figures there. Might change the style in the future. So far i've just dabbled and put the postworked images in the portfolio, but I might start posting some finished work from time to time.

Im sorry I just want to say something to Tisa. Did it ever occur to you that while this art may not move YOU, it moved the artist or someone else? I understand your point...but just because it moves you doesnt mean it didnt move someone else or have meaning for the person that "hit the render button".

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=sofandlo

"Poser Artists"? My favorite. http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=sofandlo

I think I understand what she (or he) means. I intially was so wrapped up in the technical aspects of crafting Poser Scenes that I neglected the creative aspect of the scenes. What I think Tisa wants is an image that speaks to the human condition, rich with emotion and evoking the very spirit of humanity. Tisa mentioned some great artists of a time gone by. I honestly don't think there are many people today who could put their name in the same sentence as those artists. Computer art is an evolving medium and many true conventional artist find the idea of moving to electronic media daunting at best. So it is not to say that many here are not good artists, they are for the media. The fault lies in the comparison to more traditional media arts. It's a new frontier so what makes a good oil painting doesn't necessarily make a good render. That's my humble opinion anyway.

I have seen many of the works of the alleged "great artists". They don't move me. Therefore, they are not art. I have been far more deeply moved by arrythm of blade upon blade in a masterful tac-a-tac than by entire museums of so-called "art". Therefore, fencing is art, but that stuff hanging on those walls is not. Yes, it may have some sort of technical nuances and the acclaim of the effete, but it is still not art.

Her attitude is what leaves me "cold". If she can't see that there are people at various levels of their talent here and how prissy and insulting her comments were, then she's a troll in my book too.

Attached Link: Poser/Mimic/Max animation: Vote Devil! (o but is it art, let me wail...)

"Where is the Render Button... is something new in Poser 5?" It's next to the Make Art button. I think what has Tisa's p's in a w is that so many posers are pushing that Render Button before they push the Make Art button. Of course, a photographer like Tisa would never have this problem, having only one button to push...

Go to the Magazine Interact forum and do a search for Bee. Some nice pictures. ;)

Tisa - to take your own examples of artists, none of them were considered great artist in their early days. To take their reputations one by one : o Bosch - odd o Constable - just a good landscape renderer (not an artist) o Dali - a show-off fraud o Monet - an unskilled hack (the term "impressionist" was a derogatory term at first) All of them became "recognized" as great artists later on as their skills improved and tastes changed - or should we say "declared" ? Who knows where among the present R'osity artists we'll find tomorrow's greats? This is-it-art discussion pops up regularly on the Forum. Noone has produced a workable definition of "art" yet. Until someone does, the only effect of the discussion is to make a lot of picture makers just a bit less happy with their hobby. As someone who loves to look at images (art or not), I wish the discussion pro and con art could be put on hold until we can agree on what we're talking about. Just my 0.2 Euros - I'm off the soapbox, put down the tomatoes ;o)

An insult is never a good way in which to obtain information.

Two words: Don Tatro, a true Poser artist in every sense of the word

the definition of art is simple art is what you make of it

Attached Link: http://web.infinito.it/utenti/m/maclean/

At the risk of making myself highly unpopular (not that I give a hoot), I'm going to offer a few comments on art in general and this topic in particular. Mister Dog said "I have seen many of the works of the alleged "great artists". They don't move me. Therefore, they are not art. I have been far more deeply moved by arrythm of blade upon blade in a masterful _tac-a-tac_ than by entire museums of so-called "art". Therefore, fencing is art" Now, I don't deny Mr Dog the right to his opinion, but if he's right, then anything can be art. A pile of used condoms, my dinner leftovers... So how do we decide what is art? Here are a few thoughts. 1. The artist is NOT the person who decides if his/her creation is art. That is decided by several factors, the traditional ones being, the passage of time, the ability of the work to move entire generations of people. And a new factor, the value of a work of art on the stock market. Beuty is no longer in the eye of the beholder. Beauty is now in the eye of the stockholder. 2. EVERY true artist creates something ORIGINAL. This is not a comment on poser imagery, just a simple fact. 3. There's a difference between an artist and a craftsman. Art moves the soul. (Good) craft is beautifully executed work. 4. Before you rush to decide what is or isn't art, sit down and ask yourself why you like an image. If you admire it's technical excellence, that's good, but it's not the same as being confronted with an image that will haunt you for the rest of your life. 5. I said this, but evidently it needs repeating. You do NOT need to be an artist to appreciate art. Anyone with a bit of sensitivity can appreciate and pass comment on art. This idea that Tisa needs to 'prove' something is BS, pure and simple. Having said that, I personally feel that Tisa's post was phrased in a (perhaps unintentionally) provocative way. If you post stuff like that, be prepared to take the flak. I'm a fashion photographer and have been for 20 years. I do NOT consider myself an artist and NEVER have. I may be a craftsman, but I've never really cared what people call me. I do my shoots in my own style, to the best of my ability, and it's here today, forgotten tomorrow. Who cares? As an assistant, I worked with a LOT of famous photographers from Elliot Erwitt to Norman Parkinson to Oliviero Toscani, and I never heard any of them talk about their 'art'. They just got on with doing the job. Lastly, to anyone who aspires to be an artist. If you have the ability to make images and it gives you and others pleasure, do it....and do it to the best of your ability. Put your heart and soul into every image and don't worry about whether it's 'art' or not. If it relects your desires, feelings or outlook on life, then it's valid in it's own right, without any external justification or labels. Digital imagery is in it's infancy, both technically and emotionally, but it's as valid as any other medium for expressing feelings. But if it's only used to achieve technical excellence, it'll never reach the status of art. Technical excellence comes from software, not the human soul. You don't get any more realistic than a photograph, but Ansel Adams' photographs are not considered art because they look real. Whether you want to be an artist or just make good renders in poser, discussions like this are healthy. Especially if you keep an open mind. "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent" - Issac Asimov mac PS I realise I'll probably be asked to 'prove' something, so I've added a link to my site. It's just a bunch of pictures, some good, some average. If you like them...fine, but they're not art. Just pictures.

Tisa, you are indeed a Troll. Sounds like you need to fly to Rome and visit a museum. I don't think you do know what you are looking for though. I consider any attempt by anyone to be artful. Its better than sitting in front of the tube watching Judge Judy eating bon-bon's. You should go elsewhere to make these types of posts. I surf the gallery everyday and I am amazed or at least impressed by 1 out of every 10 pic's I see. I'm with the others...lets see YOUR "art".

"2. EVERY true artist creates something ORIGINAL. This is not a comment on poser imagery, just a simple fact."

And that something original could be as simple as a feeling an image was meant to convey.

"5. I said this, but evidently it needs repeating. You do NOT need to be an artist to appreciate art. Anyone with a bit of sensitivity can appreciate and pass comment on art. This idea that Tisa needs to 'prove' something is BS, pure and simple."

If you do a search on the user name "Tisa" it looks very much like a clone account used when the user wanted to cause a stir without using their real personality. At least that's my opinon of it.

However, on this site, it's natural for people to ask that "she" post her work. There aren't too many people on this site that don't use these programs. "Her" lone image in her gallery would fall under the "is it art" discussion so her questioning sounds hypocritical to me.

I tend to share Maclean's thoughts on art (including the one on stockholders). Maclean, your text on art is well done given this format (the average posting). Take heed: at least Mac is still extending the hand to reach out to Tisa and not giving her bullshit. Those who try to get Tisa to prove anything are...how to say it ?... (A term that won't show contempt or insult, yet a term that definitely shows I'm not sharing their opinions...I'm looking for that term...) ...Immature ? Yup, I stick to that word ! My little 0,015 american dollar... (canadian 2 cents) Purplehayes PS: To Maclean: great page, easy to navigate, original presentation, well optimized illustrations.

Time for my cheap argument trick. Dig out Mr. Dictionary (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, 10th ed, for those keeping score). All rightie, looks like we got 6 defs here, and I don't feel like typing them all, so I'll grab the first, and then one or two of the most topical. 1) skill acquired by experience, study, or observation 3) an occupation requiring knowledge or skill 4a) the conscious use of skill and creative imagination esp. in the production of aesthetic objects; also: works so produced. OK, creative will probably be another sticking point, so let's go look that one up. First 2 defs (of 4, last two dealing with deceptive practices) 1) marked by the ability or power to create: given to creating. 2) having the quality of something created rather than imitated. Discuss amongst yourselves. I'm gonna go make something.