CL, Sitting in the dark here with no end in sight is making folks a bit punchy. Would it be possible to get a status report? What's in the works for bug fixes, content cd updates, etc. What's a reasonable time to expect a patch, what will it fix, kinda thing?

"Sitting in the dark..." Everything is nice in the dark... Vieth proverb

They either all knew it was coming and have skipped off with the loot to the West Indies.......or They are all frantically trying to work out what on earth has gone wrong....... Or they're running round like headless chicken's shouting 'what do we do kupa?'....or.....or............ What do we do Kupa? speak to us.....there's a head o steam building here if I'm reading the runes. My mind of course is open and clear of preconcieved ideas (my copy hasn't even arrived yet so I should probably belt up) but there seem to be a lot of folk out there having a lot of problems..and my excitement is turning to apprehension.

My kid worked for a software developer firm..small..similar to CL...they busted but working many late hours leading up to the release of their newest gem.... When it went out the door, so did the staff...they were so tired they needed a break.....so....perhaps the same with CL...they probably deserve it.... HOWEVER....but I think the issues we're seeing are going to take a bit to fix.

You're probably right Dave-So..they're probably exhausted_ and it may well be that a measured and methodical prioritising of the 'need to fix' list is going to be better for us all in the long run. And I guess all Kupa will be able to offer at present is placatory words_ when it comes to the crunch it'll be the hard pressed programmers who'll have to deliver.

We are currently working on a list of known critical bugs and fixes that will be addressed in an updater. This updater will include stability fixes, functionality fixes and content fixes. We are targeting releasing this updater in a matter of weeks. I'm sorry that there is a need for a patch so soon into the release. Steve Cooper Curious Labs

Good to know you react so quickly ! Rome wasn't build in 1 day after all! Laurent, Paris "Bad english and all faults are copyrighted ABLC..."

I'm with my fellow European on this one. There's always a patch, we expect a patch, patches are part of Poser life. From what I've read, the animators are still going to be 5th heaven...

in 5th heaven...

If you knew about the bugs, then why didn't you fix them before it was released? Mike

Mike, who said he knew about the bugs BEFORE it was released? What he said was they're compiling a list of bugs that they NOW know about and hopefully they'll be fixed. They're probably having a hard time seperating reports of GENUINE bugs from gripes, bitches, slams and generally nasty responses from disgruntled users who've jumped the gun and decided that P5 "doesn't work." Which is too bad, really because I think P5 has gotten a bad rap. I think its a pretty good piece of software. --jjsemp

Egaeus, Good question. Some of the P5 bugs turned up after the CD was handed off to duplication, my content bugs for instance. Some showed up at the last moment, and had to be deemed non-critical, and slated for this update. And some are just puzzling. Jackson and Casamerica, my sincere apologies to you both, are having a very rough time, and this doesn't seem typical across the board, so there is some issue that is unique that we need to figure out. My hope is that they are also working are communicating with tech support so we can get copies of their bad files, details about the hardware, to try and figure out what the nature of their specific problems. On a personal note, a number of us at Curious Labs worked for many months without pay to bring Poser 5 to market. There is a finite time that I or any of the others that contributed time without pay to the project, we have bills to pay, need to put food on the table, etc. and sadly that finite time was reached just before the release. There wasnt much flexibility. It may seem that weve been working on Poser 5 for the last three years. That hasnt been the case, there have been very difficult challenges along the way. Ill go into detail on that later. Steve Cooper Curious Labs

Why don't you tell us wich bugs will be corrected first ? That will allow us to focus on other part of P5. Laurent, Paris

I don't have a complete list but should by next week. Kupa

Steve, can you do anything about the Modeless Dialog problems in P5. I can understand some dialogs being Modeless like the material nodes etc. But when Poser asks for a file I should not be able to click on other controls till that dialog is cleared. This is extremely evident in P4 with the materials dialog. I can bring up the old dialog, click on the button for selecting a texture. The open file dialog appears. I can then click again on the texture open button and get another open dialog. Other people have reported this error in P5. One of the huge problems I see and one of the biggest reasons for percieved lock ups is when a user gets a dialog prompt, clicks on a button but that event is passed down to a lower dialog which also clicks on a control or changes a setting. This obviously puts P5 in a bind since it has a dialog open yet gets another command to do something else. Now I don't know if it was your intention to have P5 be multitasking ie we can set materials while rendering etc. but, if its not then please think about changing the UI so it is not all Modeless, especially for prompt boxes. I know it also an issue with OS. I have 2k, xp and 98 boxes and it does this on all 3 platforms.

I would like to thank Kupa for his calmness, consideration and devotion. To paraphrase someone or other, adversity doesn't create character, it reveals it. It seems a measure of the man that despite all of the ranting, raving, screaming, kicking and crying going on -- some of it justified, some not -- he has retained his dignity, his composure, and his class. Kupa, I don't know you personally, and probably never will -- but thank you.

Doh,

Kupa..placatory words maybe BUT well done for stepping in to the maelstrom (spelling?!. why no spell-checker in Rosity_ you guys!!)Its good to hear you are all on the case (and at least you aren't in the West Indies yet) We are an impatient bunch and perhaps we should be more patient than we are, but its all down to the excitement that's developed over the last few months_some of it CL induced. If its helped the cash flow to get this out before it was really ready fine (and thanks for being honest about that) but you do need to deliver.. things are obviously running pretty close to the wire over there. I for one am confident that you can get it sorted and make this an unparralled piece of software. Keep talking .. keep us on board. cheers

I applaud you for the effort! I know how hard it is to come out with such an excellent program. Keep up the good work. Ron

Please work on the morphs first, this is really disappointing. Marque continues to hand out the virtual valium, but no one at CL gets any, we want them to be sharp! lol Marque

Kupa, you really disapoint me! You mean CL couldn't test every possible user action on every possible platform with every possible OS and every possible software combination?!?!?! :) I don't see how anyone could have realistically expected perfection on this first release, look forward to the updater, and think you folks are doing great! (My only dissapointment is that it seems "Airborne Express" is neither...)

Kupa......I love it....even with the bugs.....I am having a great time experimenting. Sharen

By the time the bug fixes get out, I'll barely have finished learning the great Hair room. We all knew there'd be bugs. There are always bugs in every product. Some worse than others. CL definitly ISN'T the worst. Kupa's fairly quick response, and the promise of a list of known bugs and the priority of fixing them is a LOT better than MicroSquish or Corel (not to name names). Although I DO wish the Daz Millenium people were fully compatable with P5... (this gripe will continue until someone comes out with a really good P5 compatable set of figures - male first please).

I really love P5, the problems will be worked out I feel and we will be just getting used to some of the great features....I am still busy testing this and that. I need more memory I discovered and I think that once I get that hardware upgrade things will go easier. I am learning a lot about the program but I love it!!! Thanks to everyone at CL hope you make lots of dollars to make all the hard work worthwhile....and the whinning too....:-)...but we whine because we love Poser!...

Steve, Apology accepted. I can understand problems with the new stuff and the rush and all, if you haven't been working on it all this time. But, honestly, it's pretty difficult to dismiss the fact that P4 bugs are still in P5. By the way, it might help PR some if you'd mention how smoothly casamerica's registration went!

Forgot to mention, Steve, that--even though I accept your apology--I'm still gonna poke fun. Hope you don't mind.

Jackson, That was priceless. :-) If I were to add one thing- "yes, casamerica's registration did go very smoothly" I understand that with a little vodka, even cheez-its can have their moment of glory. Kupa

steve, I think it would be a benefit if you and the folks at CL would tell the folks here the full story of how difficult it has been making this program. Ive tried again and again to say that CL needed some cash, but I dont think it's ever fully registered with them the degree of the necessity. Anyhow, even tho I havent bought p5 yet (but I am going to very soon!) I want to personally thank you and all at CL for your hard work and dedication in getting the program out..even when cash flow was at a bare minimum. How many users here would have such dedication. Methinks that when you have the time, you should post a bit about the struggle somewhere (perhaps your site?) of making p5 a reality. again Thanks! BT

BT, That's my plan as well. It would make for some interesting reading. Kupa

Actually I'll jsut wait for the tell all book.

Jackson and Casamerica, my sincere apologies to you both, are having a very rough time, and this doesn't seem typical across the board, so there is some issue that is unique that we need to figure out. My hope is that they are also working are communicating with tech support so we can get copies of their bad files, details about the hardware, to try and figure out what the nature of their specific problems.<<< Kupa, no apology to me personally needed. I have to say though that many of the problems I have been experiencing are, in fact, being reported by others. They are just doing so in a more coherent and eloquent manner. Additionally, some of the problems I am experiencing - so as P5's refusal to render certain P4 created pz3s - are such that I cannot really send you the files. They contain materials that I purchased from the Marketplace, Daz and elsewhere and I cannot violate their trust. The problem with certain P5 meshes - the P5 business suit coat, for instance - has been reported by others and I will gladly send my copy of the mesh for you to check if it is somehow corrupted. I do not believe it is, however, I did a fresh install on a second machine. Same problem. One thing I have learned in the past four pretty much sleepless days is that the number and severity of crashes, freezes and lockups decline to a certain extent if I initiate my renders from the Pose room rather than elsewhere. I have read nowhere in the manual where this should make a difference, but it apparently does, at least from my POV. Also, and this may be reaching on my part, it just seems that there is a problem with compatibility with pz3s created in P4. Most of my initial testing was done with pz3s created in P4. I still have many of the same problems with original P5 scenes but to a much lesser extent it seems. Finally, am I disappointed? To be honest, yes. However, I was also the kid that was disappointed when the Flash Gordon raygun for Christmas really didn't dematerialize his little sister or the X-Ray glasses really didn't see through Miss Townsend's dress. I have never been one that believes we have to live with "buggy" software. I did not like the remarks from some who stated that the problems we were having were due to our "inexperience" or "inadequate" systems or expecting "too much on the first day." That was and is BS. I know that and I think you know that. There are issues here that disappoint me. I cannot deny that. But it is an imperfect universe. The one thing I know, however, is that you and the crew at Curious Labs are committed to Poser. And as I stated in another thread, I also know that you and your people are more than "just another company." Those sort of statements piss me off as much as the statements blaming P5 problems on the user. You are good people with good hearts. I have not stated that anyone should NOT buy Poser 5. I also stated that I am reserving my final verdict for awhile. You do that when you are dealing with good people. You give them a chance to fulfill their promise. You give them a chance to stand up if they happen to stumble. And contrary to those who state that you and your people are "just another company," I think you and your crew are good people. And I trust you and your people as much as this very, very scarred devil-dog trusts anyone. I've had a bit of fun the past few days and perhaps that fun was too much at your expense. For that, I think maybe I owe you an apology. It was actually an attempt to keep things from getting too damn sullen. I was aware of what you and your people had to go through these past few years to keep Poser in general and Poser 5 in particular alive. I guess I conveniently forgot that in my attempt to keep the mood one floor above doom and gloom among those of us with issues. Anyway, I ramble. Could be the Chez-Its... more likely the gin. I intend to continue to fight with Poser 5... except when the monitor of the system I have it installed on spins on its pedestal - that scares the hell outta me... for a couple of weeks until vacation time. And then nothing computer related goes with me as I spend a few weeks in my version of heaven on Earth - Scotland. Take care and be well. casamerica P.S. - Hey! Did you hear how smooth my registration went? ;-)

Jsut a fast note to Steve and the gang at CL. Despite the bugs (and there are some... though I am learning to work around them) Poser5 is my "weapon of choice" over P4 from the minute I first installed it. Even as we speak it is int he background, pounding out a production render for professional use... and I wouldn't go back to P4 if you came here with a stick and threatened me. Good job! Take the weekend to relax. We'll play with the hair room and so on and then on Monday you can work ont he patch. Enjoy :)

Sure hope sales have been enough to pay all those dedicated poser5 workers back. I've worked for free a couple times in my life from devotion to a cause or concern and friendship for an employer. I never got paid back, but had a sense of fulfillment from it, but then, I didn't have family to worry about. So hope ya'll got paid back. Did you?

Casamerica, did you connect with tech support? Even if you can't share the files, it would be good to take a closer look at what your problem is. It sounds like a rendering issue, not as in it being slow, but happening at all. I'm really concerned about this issue. If there is some kind of similarity with others that you're seeing regarding system set-up, hardware, some common troublesome files that we could purchase, etc. please let us know, you'd help us understand and ultimately help to fix this issue.

Hi mr. kupa :) Because you're here,(isn't that grammatically incorrect to start a sentence with that word?), I have to surmise you managed to hold off the bill collectors, and get fed.... however, as much as I love you guys...and think Poser is just wonderful, and Poser 5 WILL become a great application...i truly am a bit POd that you guys released this in the shape it is in, especially now that I know you guys knew about some of the bugs, which I felt hard to believe you didn't anyway..considering the extent to which they have become apparent. Its great you're going to fix them, but I think you telling us that is a bit underwhelming...I would expect you to fix it and pretty darn fast......it shouldn't have happened in the first place..you should be happy a bunch of us haven't returned this product. I think it has caused a few folks to hold back on purchasing it as it is. You couldn't get a bit of a loan or something to see it through to a proper completion? You probably could have taken up a collection from all us and saved the day..we're all such dedicated customers...I'm serious here...I'm sure we could have become investors in your venture, and would have been happy with a strong, useable product straight away as a return on our capital. Here's a bit of my favorite rant--- In my opinion, there are too many people willing to accept software in all sorts of non-working conditions...ACCEPT IT!!! What is wrong with these people? I bet you wouldn't accept a product that didn't work correctly, none of you would...in fact you would return it rather than wait weeks for a fix, while your hard earned money sits idly, not accomplishing anything but acting as a placeholder until the thing is repaired. I return the stuff in a heartbeat...I have no acceptance of sub-par quality and performance...its out the door and I look elsewhere...I'm a lost customer.....oh well, only 1, the stupid salesman says....oh, another one, the store manager says...as all of a sudden stores are closing all around because the place ain't making so much money any more.... -------------------------------------------------- Now that all sounds pretty darn harsh, and I must have real large conjagas to say this here, or maybe a bit suicidal,...but its how I feel. I'm sure I'll also feel the wrath and get flamed so badly here that my monitor will catch fire, probably get booted right out of Renderosity...that's fine...I probably deserve it for being so open with my thoughts...god forbid we should voice our opinion..even when you know you're going to catch flak... Anyway.... Having gotten that off my chest, (another grammatical error), I still have Poser 5 on my hard drive...why???? Because I know you're a man of your word...Steve Cooper..and I truly love Poser..even P5 with its problems. I have faith in your company...I've been a Poser user since verison 1.0...I know you'll make it all better, and we'll live happily ever after, just like, just like...Romeo and Juliet..or some such... My wife, however, isn't all that happy---she had to clean the blood from my keyboard and pick up the broken shelf, because I hit it so hard, I couldn't open my hands....but that's ok...we have to suffer a bit to really appreciate the product later on...just think how boring it would be to just install this thing and use it right out of the box with no hassles. The fixed product will be such a pleasure to use...it will be orgasmic. OK...I'm ready to take the heat.

mab, Not yet... at least I started getting a check again though. Kupa

Steve...... Please do explain all of the hurdles you've had to go through just to get where you're at with P5. Nobody belives me. :-) But then again. I didn't exactly give them any specifics either. I didn't know what I should and should not say in public. I sincerely believe that if you open up to the community. Tell them what's going on from day to day. They will back off a bit and not be so harsh to you guys. People will still complain. But it will be different. You will be working side by side with them. Remember the good old days when you guys hung out on the Poser list? The only thing you did differently back then was talk to us more often. But it made all the difference in the world. I realize that you can't talk about things sometimes because of competitors lurking in the shadows. But that doesn't mean you can't shoot the breeze with the community. Or talk about what's working or not working. If not you. Then hopefully someone can be assigned to the task. I sure do miss Ollie who used to run the Poser list. He was a great CL rep. ScottA

oops..make that great Poser rep. Been with you guys a long long time now. too many years to count. ;-)

Dave-so, There would be nothing more satisfying than fully detailing the funding saga here at Curious, but I'll reserve that for the book Mallenlane's waithing for. Why should Anthony have all the fun? We deserve the heat, not you. But what we really want is to figure out how the fix the bugs you're finding and fix them fast. That's a very reasonable request. And I appreciate that there hasn't been an en-masse effort to return product. Last thing in the world we need right now are more of those darned P5 boxes to clog up the halls. ;-) Steve Cooper

I understand Steve.... By the way..as Scott stated above..the invitation is wide open for you to say howdy once in awhile over at the Poser list....the original :) But if you need to hold a hammer over those programmers until the fix comes about...I'll understand you not getting over there for a bit.

Steve! Just wanted to say thanks for all the blood, sweat and tears that went into Poser 5! I've been having a ball with it, and I know in the future it'll be tuned up into a well-oiled machine. I also appreciate your taking time to give the forum here your personal attention. I've seen a lot of negative reactions, but it's a great new tool, and I've got a lot of enthusiastic exploring to do! -Jeff Whiting Tempus Fugit

Just wanted to jump in with my $0.02 here. I have P5! I haven't done a lot with it yet, but I plan to this weekend. So far I haven't encountered many of the bugs reported by others, but as I said, I haven't done a whole lot. The install went very smoothly, even though I installed to a BUSlink protable hard drive! Net registration and all went well. The program starts and operates from the portable drive well on my desktop, I haven't tried to move it and set it up for use on my laptop yet... I would like to ask that the missing morphs for Don and Judy be released as downloads as soon as possible! It seems to me that there isn't a whole lot of testing that needs to be completed before this, obvious ommission, can and should be corrected. I keep checking the Curious web site, hoping to see the files up there, but no luck yet. As you may discern, the simple act of making these files available, which were supposed to be shipped witht he product anyway, would go a long way to proving your good intentions, to me at least. In all I can't complain of being very disappointed. With software being the "first to buy" has it's risks, no matter how well tested. It's not pleasant or right, but it is a fact. mike

Steve, I agree with most everthing in all the last posts, except the part where you "hold a hammer over those programmers".. As a programmer, I really don't want to establish that as the best way to get the work done... Take the weekend off, kiss the wife/husband, hug the kids, catch some rays (the sun kind, not the Firefly kind), and we'll look forward to hearing from you on Monday.

Kupa and friends,

I have worked with software companies big and small and no one releases software bug-free. All they can do is address as many of the ones they know about as they can before the money runs out. There is eventually a time when the product must ship or die, whatever shape it is in.

I understand that.

The demands of market often call for introducing new features, making it a priority over fixing old bugs people have lived with anyway. It's a tough call, but new features mean revenue. You can't expect people to pay for a bug fix.

I respect that.

When a small company relies on a single product for income and the money's running low, a lot of testing gets rushed. After all, you can't keep testing if you can't pay testers. And real users will ALWAYS find problems that testers missed, use the prodcuts in ways never anticipated.

Totally been there.

It's not unreasonable for a customer to buy a software product and expect it to run as advertised, bug-free. It is, unfortunately, a little unrealistic. Being a little more realistic (cinical), I held off on the upgrade to see what real users had to say. Sort of like waiting for the reviews of "Episode I" rather than standing in line overnight to get tickets for opening day.

I am neither surprised nor disappointed that there are problems. I don't blame CL or hold them to an unfair standard. While many people are rightfully upset with the problems in the software, I don't believe they were caused by sloppiness, apathy, ignorance or greed. I believe you guys did your damndest to put out a damn cool product. While many users are suffering the fate of early adopters, I see the potential for an EXTREMELY compelling upgrade. I'll just wait for that first patch thank you...

So the point of this ramble is... well, my respect and sympathies to the team at CL. I wish more people were aware of what it takes to make software happen. Perhaps you would not get slammed as unfairly. Meanwhile, IMHO, how you respond to the genuine issues your customers have is what will have the lasting impression on the user community. Thank you for your admirable effort so far.

"There is no art without pain." I predict that we'll soon see some gorgeous work! [grin] Bobasaur (I am 7 of 12) -- still working on his 13 charater animated music video using the Poser 4, the Pro Pack and Lightwave on his trusty Mac.

Oh please...
I have no respect for CL after this thread and I certainly have no sympathy for them. I do think it's a pretty gutsy move to use sympathy as a way to get people to forgive them for selling them a defective product. What if you bought a brand new car in which the wheel freezes up and you total the car against a tree. You call up the company and they say, "Oh I'm sorry, the engineers didn't get paid, and they said it would probably be okay. We should have a fix for you in a few weeks though." You'd be hopping mad to the point of asking for refunds to sueing for misrepresentation at the least, so why is CL any different???? They sold you what is basically very buggy and in some cases unusable software for $349 and you are thanking them for it???? I'm sorry I don't get it. Is CL even offering refunds or just a promise of a patch in "x" weeks, because lord knows refunds are the enemy of the software industry.

To me, if they truly cared about the legitimate users, CL would have spent some of that "code protection" money on finishing the product and getting known bugs out while still being able to pay their programmers, but it's more important that Billy doesn't use his Poser on two different computers at the same time, then whether it works at all on anyone's computer.

And don't say I know anything about what it takes to make software happen, because I've been in development for over 15 years and I have even been in a similar situation where the company holds the carrot in front of you to get you to stay for your reward. As a developer, no one wants to see a program go south after three years. After three years, you are pretty much exhausted as has been said, but if five weeks means you will get the reward that you were promised, you kinda figure "What's another 5 weeks after 3 years..." Also there is a certain amount of pride in completion, but that pride pretty much gets sucked up when it's released knowing it has all kinds of problems that will have to be fixed later when it's much more difficult. It's even worse when the programmers are pushed to the point of saying, "Whatever, just get it out there so we can pay our mortgage..."

I'll certainly agree that it's impossible for companies to find all the bugs in their software from just beta testing, especially in a world with different video cards, OS versions, CPU's, etc, etc, etc. However, to release a product knowing that it's buggy in order to make a quick buck goes way past shemeful IMO, to this community and the 3d world at large (especially those who are not benefiting from the knowledge gotten from these discussions).

$349 is not an easy price to come up with. To all those that want to hear CL's story of sacrifice, how about the story of those that had to scrape up and sacrifice to be able to buy this lemon??? What about them???

I'm sorry, but I'll be one of the last to buy Poser 5 and given this heartwrenching scenario about how their programmers aren't getting paid and Kupa just now got a check, it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a CL in a year. What happens when Poser 5 dies down (or is cracked which is very likely)? They'll be out of business and the buyers will be up a creek without a paddle. Remember, except for these forums, there is no official documentation that says in the event of their demise, there will be a crack furnished to unlock the software for legitimate users.

Sorry Kupa, but all I hear is violins playing in the background...

This is all my opinion...and will probably most likely get me flamed, but someone had to say it...

Thanks Kupa! For a measley $129 upgrade bucks, I've been made a part of a "club" of users who are getting to play with a software package that delivers more power per dollar than anything else out there. Has anybody checked the price of Maya lately? 3D Studio Max? Lightwave? Softimage? I never expected P5 to be perfect right out of the box. I've been consistently delighted with what this program is attempting to be. And I'm glad that Curious Labs is dedicated to keeping this program alive and well. I'm still amazed that P5 even exists. Bugs? Hah! I laugh in the face of bugs! We are soooooooo spoiled. -jjsemp

spoiled?

What ShadowWind said. Pretty damned nicely stated, Shadow.

Shadow and Ironbear,

You are justafiably pissed. I'm not taking that away.

However, some people want to attribute nefarious motives to CL's efforts, or lack thereof. I don't buy that.

From the sound of things, CL shipped a product in a state that would be unacceptible to me, so it is no surprise many other people find it unacceptable. If I had spent the money and had the same problems, I would be extremely pissed myself.

However, I am willing to believe that CL found itself in a ship-or-die situation. It happens. It sucks, but it happens.

This does not make it okay to ship a broken product. No one wants to pay to be a Beta-tester. But it does mean that CL can redeem themselves by fixing the problems ASAP.

If CL shipped with malicious intent, they wouldn't give a rat's ass about fixing anything, because they already got your money. As it is, they are going to need to do a hell of a lot to soothe a pissed off customer base.

Meanwhile, I find it more productive to encourage people to work hard and fix a problem than to call them a bunch of jerks for creating the problem in the first place.

Mind you, sometimes I also find it a lot more satisfying to vent, sometimes quite rudely...

• G

P.S. I agree the protection scheme is bogus.

I doubt my opinion counts for a damn thing, I'm afraid Poser 5 is one of those things I'll not be bothering with at all, for various reasons. Climbing onto the sympathy cart is just tacky, but what the hell, I've got a box of tissues here, I'll give them to whomever wants to cry a river. Well said ShadowWind, amazing someone had the guts to say it. Oh, to all those who are now going to send me hate filled IMs. I care not, Boo! Three years is a long period of grace for any company and a long time to do ... erm... well what have they done? Avatar Lab? No matter the problems or excuses or personal tears. Business is business. Stuff it. Y'all have a fun time weeping along with Mr. Cooper and patting him on the back for, well for whatever. Me? I'm going to go and buy some real software, it might cost more but I expect that, the real bonus is that it will work properly. Have fun.