Do excuse the numerous attempt to try and post this message as HTML. It failed, miserably! :-(

Have been following the chain which draculaz posted with interest and while this was meant to be posted as a reply to it, decided to post this as a new thread. One of the reasons being its such a short post! ;-)

Criticism is defined as the practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other artistic works. This is an activity with a purpose of course, and as such, the purpose behind the activity defines the means by which one goes about criticising.
If the purpose is to identify with the artists objectives and then analyse and interpret the art, one offers encouragement by identifying with those aspects of art, which appealed to you as a viewer, offer alternative to the creative process to broaden the artists horizon, share techniques and principles to push the creative envelope of the art and artist further. This form of criticism is generally labelled as constructive criticism and the basis of this criticism is do onto others as you would have others do onto you.

There are other forms of criticism of course. There is the form of proving personal superiority. The mode this criticism takes is generally declarations, unsupported by any analysis, witticism bordering or infringing on sarcasm, and as the case generally isthe declarations are varying, relative and completely subjective! The basis of this criticism is generally self-aggrandizing as the primary focus then is neither the artist nor the works, but the art and the artist becomes a means to draw attention to the critic. This form of criticism is generally labelled as negative criticism.

Renderosity is a community and as such, like any other community, I feel should offer the freedom to all to be what they want to be, either as creator or as critics, and express themselves freely, as they want to. Im not sure Id like to ask draculaz to temper his opinions. For two reasons:

• Then we ourselves become as judgemental as his own judgements are. One can appeal to him of course or offer constructive criticism (as this chain is doing) to his means of criticism, but then it must be left to his free will to which kind of criticism he would like to indulge in, after all we are free to accept or reject the kind of criticism that comes our way.
• The second reason is a healthy respect for the process of nature. It takes a bit of dirt to grow into a pearl! Imagine all oysters spitting out that dirt which settles in them. Creation would be devoid of pearls! The point Im trying to make over here is, it was draculazs comment which has opened up a healthy discussion on criticism. After all it is bits of turbulence which initiate change. If we were to stop all turbulence, we might be curtailing change itself!

I think this offers us an opportunity to inspect another means of pushing our envelope of how we create with Bryce. That is feedback!
I for one definitely welcome criticism of my entry, http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=107&Form.ShowMessage=892736, positive or negative. It helps me see my work through others eyes and not necessarily in words which are meant to accommodate my sensitivities, but rather as a hair down gut feel reaction. Personally it helps my creative process grow more holistically. The purpose of a challenge is to push ones limits of application. The true winners are those who have pushed themselves that much more. The winner, as declared, is just a favourite of the peers. It is a position of prestige undoubtedly, but it doesnt surmount the achievement which is achieved at an individual level.
I personally found this challenge to have tremendously superior entries, and will be honest enough to admit that the point system, which we had initiated, seems inadequate now, given the tremendous quality, which is at show here!

I have liked Pmoores, for the work of love and aesthetic quality which shows in his work while maintaining a style unique to himself.

I thought Pidgy brought out the original concept of the challenge Landing on Planet X clearly and with finesse.

I loved the cleanliness of Vasquez toon feel, which is something not easily conceived when people think in terms of using Bryce, yet the reason I might have ranked them will not the same as somebody else!

Yet in all this I loved the tangy humour brought out by Airflamesred. What do I vote for? The innovativeness or the technical capability shown?

Loved the whimsical turn that Electroglyph brought in.

I thought the landscape which Fwtempest has done was tremendous, cos of his use of textures, but how was he highlighting the aspect of landing and the interaction with the new planet which the topic seemed to demand?

Loved the colours gregsin has achieved and would love to share with him how he could make his spaceship all that more believable to make the picture look more believable. What about the unusual perspective and the comic feel yet a sci-fi illustration look achieved by mboncher, using very recognised textures and yet give a very believable sense of tremendous scale? Doesnt the execution merit more interaction?

Loved Mindvisions moody feel, yet missed something which would convey a sense of scale about the spaceships. Thought nukeboys concept was great. But could we as community give him alternatives to him achieving the same concept in a more evolved manner?

The lighting and reflections achieved by nuski is tremendous, yet detailing on the space suits makes it a little less believable.

What Rayraz has done is not very appealing aesthetically (to me) but what he has achieved in terms of modelling and the use of the texture editor is MINDBLOWING!!!!!

The mood in Rochrs image is tremendous, but missed out on the details in the image to judge how much he has pushed the envelope in Bryce with this topic to come to any conclusion.

Loved the whimsy feel of tuttlebut the terrain seemed like it got a step sister treatment as compared to the main figure and all the other objects of the image seemed as a bit of an after thought, not taking the style and detail of the central character forward.

Well these were but a few of the images on which I commented. But personally, more then points its this feedback which, I feel, would help all of us develop that much more as an artistand towards this Im thankful to draculaz to have brought this out into the forefront. The question ishow do we structure our challenge to accommodate it?

I invite all to give in their feedback and thoughts herenot only on the artists whom you have voted your points but to any whom you feel your comments will help improve or just something about their image which you might have liked or disliked!

And in final defence of draculazRochr did make a helluva imageso why hold it against him for appreciating it? :-D

Avi

Avi, Great job... There is always more to the eye, and if you are afraid of the reflection in the mirror, you should remove them, or accept what you see and learn a little more human traits. I will be posting soon, not in Bryce yet, I would be going into battle if my attitude was shallow and my ego severely bigger than my heart. There is too much critisism and passing off the blame, here is not the place to expose that weakness. This is art in any shape or form, the expresion is as the creator sees it. We are not God, or the higher being, only mortal and honestly cannot judge without being judged back as only a human can, and those words are simply a sign of a bigger psychological problem. Maybe getting out and seeing the world in its simplisity may help. There is a lot of things that are just plain, but if you look deeper, they are very complex and beautiful. Xeno66

Nicely worded. No one holds dracualz against appreciating Rochr's picture, me least of all. It was the rest of his comment; "I have to say that rochr's is the only one that is realistic and interesting enough to be counted, and that is why I'm not going to bother with the other 2. There's rochr, and there's a broad range of mediocrities". I know that you realize he was also calling your work mediocre, humorix. I know you don't believe it, and neither do I, becuase it's not true. It's not true for any of the entries. Constructive critisim is great, opinions abound, and that is fine and needed in a an artistic arena that is targeted towards knowledge and growth of ones tools and oneself. Sarcasm, negativity, trolling, and it's like is not wanted nor will I allow it to be served to any member. I understand and welcome the artistic spirit from anyone. It can be a source of inspiration, pride, sense of accomplishment, etc. But, it at times can have a slightly darker/mean side. We want to get as much of the good out of our time spent here, and the least amount of the bad. Tempering is basically my job here, if that means stepping on some toes here and there...well, it sucks but it sometimes needs to be done. Hopefully, I can do it without impeding on anyone's artistic feelings. Thanks for taking the time to comment on some random artists, humorix, I know they appreciate it. AgentSmith

AgentSmith, if you think that my post was written by a troll, then by all means, delete it. But I stated my opinion. Many times have I seen extremely bad renderings or images who won the highest degree of applause. Is it really subjective? Yes, based on you, me, anyone else. But are we supposed to hold that flame up high and hypocritize ourselves in the process? it's just the range of our imagination. personally i felt that some of those creations (despite the whole pearl analogy), didn't deserve votes. me, my own opinion, an opportunity for debate. as a moderator, i can understand how you might not be interested in stirring the proverbialities, but as a member i have every single right to do it. draculaz 8400444 mihnea@freewriters.ca

Ummm draculaz...I sure don't mind being called mediocre...but if its backed up with reasoning, it gives me room to improve myself! And, the anology on pearls was on your comment...not on the pics ;-) Cheers and glad to have you with us...and I do definitely feel that you are entitled to your opinions!

Draculaz, you do have the right to do it, but what you say will affect the way others look at what you say in the future, and the work you create. I welcome people to give me positive critisism because I know I am not yet fullfilling my full potential in Bryce and without positive critisism I will never achieve that potential. Negative critisism is futile and leaves a bitter taste, it does not help anyone. As for mediocre, well I think my entry is, but I look to the future and improving on what has gone before, learning from my mistakes. Computer art and 3D does not come easily to all. People need a chance to learn and expand and I'm sure that even you were not perfect the first time you tried to create on computer. This is a wonderful place and your previous comments can only make this forum better, by stirring up the imagination of the members. Peace to all, whether they be....good, mediocre or bad. Catlin

"...personally i felt that some of those creations... didn't deserve votes." Well... a-duh. If there are 45 entries, and each of us votes for 3, then, in a sense, we are each saying that there are 42 that don't deserve a vote. Personally, I feel that number is much lower, but 3 is the limit that we could vote for. Nonetheless, that does not mean that I have the right to show my liking for one work by belittling those that I feel don't measure up. That's not a critique, it's just plain rude. ~one of the mediocre majority p.s. Thanks for the comment's, humorix. That's just the kind of critique I'm looking for when I post images to this forum. If someone had've said that sooner, I might have changed the position of the ships to look more like they were actually in the process of landing, rather than 'coming in'.

Thanx FWtempest. But I think people are missing a point here. Whether what draculaz did was correct or incorrect, is moot and is already being discussed in the other thread. I was hoping people would utilize this thread to put in their own feedback about the various images in the challenge, which will give us all participating challengers precious feedback from our peers. I request all forum members to give in your opinion, suggestions, comments, appreciation, depriciation and other such valued opinions in this thread, such that the experience of the challenge is rendered a bit more complete.

Thanks for the comment Humorix.I feel an honorable mention from you actually more pleasing than votes.This is my fifth challenge now and the only votes I have ever recieved was for one of my worst pieces of work.I personally am not giong to change the way I look at the challenge because there is certainly room for different approaches.The vast majority of people did landscapes.That is a good point perhaps people should mention other pieces that came close in their voting or caught their eye in one way or another Good thread

Well I know I'd like some comments on my entry, especially since it's only gotten 2 votes which seems to be par for me in the challanges. Out of 3 challanges so far even though I've put quite a bit of work into my entries they gat very few votes and I'm curious why? What can be done to improve them? I'll try to find time to do the same for the others.

Community Defined in many ways, yet this one in its simplicity applies best: joint ownership or participation That level of existence bares a certain responsibility for all those involved. Thank you all for exhibiting strong acceptance to those responsibilities as you step up to the podium. This community thrives through language/communication, the artwork is a co-existing interest shared here. Without language this pile of pictures would probably get pretty boring or rote for a better term, so basically communication makes all of this possible, agreed? When an artist (or as some have expressed a maker of pictures I like that one J) creates something, we respond. Our responses invoke responses due to their nature, be it critique or praise. A negative/destructive communication holds no validity; its only words based in negative intention. If I call you a toad, are you? So please dont take nasty comments personally, if they really care about your work or this community it will be constructive and not destructive. Constructive criticism is information that is based in teaching/caring for the greater good of those involved. Also consider that, that person may be having a really crappy day, and what they have uttered is theirs and theirs alone, and on a different day, well, who knows There is ultimately a result in community whereas those who continue to destroy with verbal (written communication) anger (internal frustration) lose validity. All of us accepting and responding to a member of our community (regardless of their initial intention) shows the strength of our belief in what benefits this community, and that is the staple of a thriving evolving group of caring people. My hats-off to you all. Thanks Rod ICMgraphics ( Image Communication Media) P.S. If I wrote this in French, most of you would be baffled, so would I since I cant understand a word of French, So for those of you who feel compelled to apologize for your English writing skills dont, trying is good enough. (grin) all of this may be wrong

humorix - your criticism of my image is bang on. It was a "rush job" and that's obvious by the result. I spent longer compressing and uploading the image than I did creating the terrain and the ship. Thanks for the comment - I ALWAYS welcome genuine feedback! And as part of the purpose of this thread is to give critique, I'll pick out a few and give my view:- Aldaron - I thought yours was great - the colour and the 50's sci-fi feel is really well done. The composition, too, is excellent (and composition skills are a hell of a lot harder to learn than Bryce skills!) But it has "rough edges" - especially around the clouds, the guy's hands, the water's edge - that detract from the overall effect. I know we're not really meant to saturate these images with huge amounts of post-work, but 15 minutes or so in Photopaint or whatever could work wonders here. It looks like you just rendered and posted double-quick, which is maybe why you haven't done as well as you expected. Rochr - super pic, as usual, and it has a good mood, but it all seems too hazy - just a little gloomy for my taste. Humorix - IMO yours wins easily. The modelling is excellent and so are the muted / metallic colours, which are well-defined but not overpowering. However, the POV is rather poor and I reckon you spent less time on the background that I did on mine! ;) Collette1 - As you asked draculaz for comment in the last thread but didn't get any - I like your picture, it's easy on the eye and has a lot of detail, but a couple of things need improvement. First, it seems "bitty" and lacks focus - maybe if the characters were nearer the camera that would help. And there is not enough interaction between the elements of the image; the figures don't appear to be standing on the ground and the plants seem to be floating. Rayraz - a stange one, this. I saw the gallery post (the super-sized version) and I thought it was superb, original and with huge impact. But somehow, for me it doesn't really work as a smaller image. I don't know why, but it loses a lot of its "wow" factor. FWTempest - I would have voted for this except for the fact (IMHO) the cloud pane on the right spoils it. Its colours are banded and there's obvious cut-off where it hits the landscape. Other than that it's an extremely good image. ICMgraphics - lovely scene, good POV and that dust is spectacular... but (yes, there's a but) the foreground mist is a mistake. IMO the focus should be the ship so the foreground should be darker, perhaps with a few specular reflections. All the images are high quality, so well done all! And so everyone can get your own back, I'm just about to start on my first attempt at a significantly post-worked image, so feel free to cast upon the resultant digital travesty a veritable heap of "informed critique!" ;)

LOL tuttle, yes everyone has a butt, um I mean but. Thanks for the critique, I totally agree with you.

Thanks for the comments. Actually if you look at my final render in my gallery I fixed some things but still was not pleased with the clouds which I worked on in photopaint. There are some limitations on Bryce clouds to get them in front of objects and cloud planes didn't work because you don't get the color blend in the sky with them besides other problems. What is wrong with the hands and the water line? Just trying to find out what can be improved, otherwise I agree with you on everything. There's always room for improvement. :)

I used the word trolling in general and did not directly call anyone a troll. It is a mod slang for someone that goes repeatedly from place to place on this site and leaves negative comments. I was speaking in generalities of various kinds of practices that violate Renderosity's TOS. What I found in your critique and comments was negativity, and sarcasm, and nothing to validate their use other than the simple fact you didn't like the other pictures in the challenge. I'm sorry someone in the past, liked a simpler pic than your more developed one, it has happened to me, it has happened in one way or another to everyone here. It sucks. Did you ever think that the badly rendered drawing that got high praise might have just been some members encouragement to someone struggling? That maybe the "enlightened, lenient" ones were trying to help someone from being discouraged? Just a thought. Is what really subjective? "It's the range of our imagination", what is "It"? Sorry, draculaz, but someone translate... Please, and I mean this to EVERYONE...have an opinion. Feel free to voice it. But, I CANNOT and will not see a problem with asking everyone to voice said opinions with an ounce of thought for others, it's that plain and simple. Not doing so actually takes more time and thought than it does to just say nothing... As a member you and all others have lots of rights, but this site was created with certain basic rules. One of which states that "destructive, abusive, defamatory communications in any form" will not be tolerated. Those rules were set up long before you all signed up, it shouldn't be a surprise. If it is...please go and read renderosity's TOS. http://www.renderosity.com/index.ez?viewLink=193 Draculaz, I appreciate your art, your free 3d models, your participation in this forum and its Challenge. As I do everyone elses. I love hanging out here like everyone else. But, if and when I have to use the business end of my Mod job, well that's what I gotta do. I felt that your vote comment was completely unnecessary and more importantly an attack on my members in the Challenge which I run. Even if the comment had been from someone else and directed towards you draculaz, I would have taken the same action and would be writing this same text in your defense. Please...try to express future displeasure with other peoples work with an amount of compassion. And, It would be great if you could place three votes in the challenge. Hey, all I can do is ask, lol. AgentSmith

Very well said humorix. I welcome critique as it is the only way to see your image through the viewers eyes. I think draculaz is entitled to his opinion and I'm sure there are members who thought the same about his entry. Negative criticism can be given in a positive way though, by using suggestions as to what the person can do to improve their image and skills. I think this actually encourages a person to improve. My eyesight is not great (bad corneas) so I miss a lot of things in an image other people see that I don't pick up on. I don't know if my critique would help anyone but the moment I see an image I know if I like it or not and find that it has to be an image the stirs a feeling inside. As individuals people have their own ideas of what they like. all entries have there good points and bad points, and a person is free to choose what he likes.

I would like to know how to improve those spaceships humorix.

greg

I will take on humorix's challenge to provide some feedback to people. I went through and randomly chose some people to comment on. I tried to be both specific and helpful, so if you want a better explanation than what I've put down, please ask. Alleycat169 - I liked the concept and the point of view and the giant worm; I especially liked they sky and wish I could pull that off. I didn't like the terrain very much, but I'm not sure if it was too bleak or too sharp, perhaps a few sad srub bushes or a little haze Battleangel 21 - I really liked your ship and the trees, I think they work really well together, I wasn't happy with the white at the base of the mountains, they look like they are floating to me and the spotlights from the ship seem oddly angled Dan Whiteside - I liked the panorimic view and the landscape and creatures, but your piece didn't pull me in for some reason. My best guess is that all the parts demand the same amount of attention; I 'm sorry I can't make this very clear, but perhaps if you darkened some parts and brightened others, you would get an interesting contrast between the different areas Draculaz - You handled the light really well on this and I like the way the planets are lit up from underneath; I think perhaps the sky needs to be a bit darker though, the starfield looks awfully blue for a nighttime scene. Also, if your point was to make it seem mysterious that a metal ball is sitting in the middle of nowhere, well that didn't come across to me, and I haven't any suggestions for how to improve that Ericof SD - I LOVED the whole station, landing, starfield, everything - I want a whole story about what goes on this place; I couldn't in conscience vote for this because the challenge was meant to be about an alien planet; the only thing that looks odd to me is the large building on the right (when you are looking at the screen), I'm guessing it is meant to be reflecting the other buildings, but it's not very clear. Shadowdragonlord I quite liked the scenery, it reminds me of an impressionistic painting; I like the grand scale of the ships also, they seem huge and heavy; but I didn't like the two together... I either wanted the ships to look more impressionistic, or the landscape and sky to be a bit more realistic You also did a lot with shadows, which is great, but I think if you made really obvious shadows from the ships, that would look nicely ominous Stuie - This picture just tickles me for some reason, and I really like the spacesuits; something about the corner where the ship/planet/horizon area is just bothers me. Perhaps I just want a little more contrast between the three Zhan I am not a fan of this style of art, so I can't say much other than the eyes in the back creep me out, so I think they are well done - if those weren't meant to be eyes, then you are on your own ;) Lin

"Did you ever think that the badly rendered drawing that got high praise might have just been some members encouragement to someone struggling? That maybe the "enlightened, lenient" ones were trying to help someone from being discouraged?" AgentSmith, when you create something and send it into the world, to quote a certain American by the name of Fussel, IIRC, you're out in the open with your pants down. Anybody who passes can say whatever they want. On the other hand, saying "this is crap" doesn't really say anything. See, no arguments for the work being crap. People who are not up to speed in anything don't know why their work is not good. On the third hand, being "lenient", IN MY OPINION, doesn't help people, and may even cause them to stay at the beginning. I'd rather have ten negative reasoned reviews than a single "lenient" one. Finally, if you have to say something negative, there is a way beside saying "this is crap". Point out the mistakes, errors, misconceptions. Praise what's good in the work. But don't say "this is crap" if you don't want a quarrel, or don't say "this is great" if you want people to progress. BTW, this kind of thing is not restricted to Renderosity or to pictures. We had this discussion in a writing group I frequent a while ago. Funnily, it was the person receiving a good, reasoned negative review of the work who thought that it was unfair.

I'll take some of that criticism of my image. How else am I gonna learn... or get a vote for something? :c) I suspect though, that it comes down to a contest of inches and taste of difference in the end.

Since we are on the critique mode here, let me first thank Tuttle for the comments he made. Its interesting to read your observations Tuttle. I definitely would like to know what a more interesting POV, as per you would be. The reason I chose this POV was to show the scale of the ATN by keeping it at a normal rye level. I wanted to create a diagonal composition, between the Xling, ATN and the flying ATN. I also wanted to capture as much of the planet atmosphere as I could. But the POV you might suggest would definitely be an interesting way to look at the composition. I have, in reality, spent quite a while generating the terrain. I wanted to create the planet such that it would definitely look otherworldly without being too imposing and a bit different from general depiction of alienworlds. My subject was the lander (ATN) and the X-landscape was supposed to serve the purpose of its background, providing a contrast to the ATNs form and texture. The Landscape also had to be of a kind which would provide a reason for the ATNs design, i.e it had to be craggy and rocky as well as plain so that it would need a ANT/insect like design as against a hover craft or wheel or tracked vehicle. The atmosphere was to depict gases enough for the air breathing engine of the ATNs yet be thin enough to give an idea about the planets gravity (the stars shine and the sky looks dark even in a early morning situation), to lend credence to the thin limb structure of the ATNs (I envisaged a planet of about 0.4-0.3 G) to allow for quick mobility of such mechanism. I had also planted the Hills around so that the reflection would show in the operator cockpit. The Hills were devised to be the enigmatic element, the origins of them being mysterious, as to whether they were eruptions from the core or extra terrestrial objects, which had impaled themselves on the surface. As to how successful I was in my endeavour is of course for you to judge and your observations would be most welcome! Ill also add a few more observations to that which I made yday: - Airflamesred. I really loved your concept. IT was a step away from the more hackneyed way of looking at the topic. I however feel that the camera, a little lower and closer to the comic would make the image more dramatic. The camera turned flat towards the wall, shows only two planes, and makes the image appear flatter. If the camera was placed towards the lower left corner and captured a bit of the right wall, you would have 3 planes in your image and it would accentuate the depth in the image. Also being an interior scene, I think you had more opportunity to exploit real interesting lighting which you didnt utilise. Putting the camera lower would have and the night sky showing through the window would have also brought an interesting contrast between the interior and exterior, with the flying saucer caught at the threshold of interior and the exterior. Aldaron. The scene was very vintage Star Trek. Your Hair creation with Terrain was definitely worthy of notice. The Lighting added an eerie feel to it all and accentuated an out-of-the-world feel. Great work! Here are a few things which, to me acted as a hindrances. A) the refuel pipe and the tentacles seemed the same. So where is it being malevolent and where is it being benign? If the fuel pipe was constructed with multireplicated torrii with a reflective material, it would have differentiated itself from the tentacles. B) the tentacles themselves look too metaball. Having seen what you have done with the Sea Dragon, I personally feel there is much you could have done to add to the realism of the tentacles. A different color to the underside of the tentacle, suction cups, barbs, blisterslots which would have made it more interesting, menacing etc. C) The landscape with just a little playing around would have accentuated the out of world feel. D) The ship definitely needed more definition (going again by what you are capable of). Is it a ship or a jetty? Why in/on water? If its a submarine, how is it landing on Planet X? E) The Saturn looks very artificial and detracts from the realism which is otherwise prevalent in the image. It appears to be floating in the sea as against on the horizon. F) The look on the foreground alien is off screen and towards up. What is it looking towards? What is the relevance of that which he is looking towards to the central drama of the image? Some unanswered questions. But I had looked hard at your image and did have some expectations from it considering I have seen your previous works and know how capable you are both as an artist as well as a Brycer. However these are only my observations. Alleycat: Loved the lighting and feel. But the image had a look of a Film Set/ Tableau to it. The depth was not very evident. The sky wasnt merging well with the visual and terrain could have been made a bit more interesting. Dan Whiteside was also a very interesting composition. Yet the star field looked artificial in a light blue sky. DarkGinger made an interesting landscape, but more details on the lander would have made the picture a lot more interesting! Draculaz had interesting light effects and an interesting night sky, but how was the landing being shown? Electrogly created a marvellous toon-feel image and a wacky way of looking at the topic. A little more attention to the details on the terrain and texture would definitely have helped. Hyperboria created a very interesting ship. Detailing it a little more, varying the texture would have made it more interesting and believable. Increasing the size of the planet with an atmospheric sheen would have made it more realistic as against a ball like object floating in space. StephenRay created a very interesting spaceship! Moving the hill behind the ship wouldnt make it look as if it was a hump on the ship. Keeping the camera a bit lower would give a greater feel of immense size to the space ship, and the landing gear could have been a bit more involved then telescopic mechanism, given the fact the ship is so well designed! But interesting use of light and effect. Ttops created a very interesting image with a very cinematic feel. But the reflections were not coming out clear enough to be able to figure out what was happening in the image. Wheeeeeeee that was a helluva lot of typing to do! Well folks I hope to have you all aiming your guns at my image and blasting away too! Its only fair! ;-) Vasquez, till date has been one of my most discerning critique and I take this opportunity to thank him as well! :-) All the very best! Avi

All very useful stuff. Seeings as a couple of you requested more clarification, here it is:- Aldaron - what I was meaning was that the juncture between the sea and the craft is unrealistic. The water looks too "thick". There needs to be a quick graduation from opaque to totally transparent, with a small amount of white foam, maybe even a few small groups of bubbles. The hair on the guy's face is great, but on the hands I can see the join. It's a minor matter, but a quick "diffuse" would blend the colour of the hair better with the hands. Humorix - there's nothing wrong with the concept of the POV you took - close to the ground, angled slightly upwards (although I would have put it lower, increased the FOV slightly and give in 5deg of tilt) - it's more that the characters' stances don't match that composition and therefore the POV doesn't work (IMO). The big guy and the flying guy are both facing out of the picture, leading the eyes outwards, and the big guy and the alien guy are both cut off in several places because of the border. I know it would be equally wrong to cram everything in, but there are legs and antennae and butts cut off all over the place (ouch!) Also, the big guy's lack of shadow in that bright sun somehow decreases his apparent size. The landscape - well, it's probably just a matter of taste - to me it looks like you accidently skewed a terrain and just left it. The colours on the far terrain look almost poserized - toon shaded - which clashes with the rich colours of the robots. WOW - all this criticism makes it sound bad! Just let me end up by saying it's once of the best Bryce sci-fi scenes I've look at in recent months! Whilst I'm posting, who thinks that it would more productive if people commented like this in the galleries? I used to, but I must admit that I've given up of late because I seemed to be only one of a handful of people doing it. Thinking back, though, I got more IMs thanking me for critical comments that I did for comments like "great pic", which shows I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Views...? (Nice new Rendo screens in the galleries BTW)

For POSERIZED, read POSTERIZED!!! :)

"who thinks that it would more productive if people commented like this in the galleries?" I certainly do. Its lovely if folk think it's a "great pic", but that doesn't really tell you anything about where you went right or where you could make improvements. Catlin

Yes I see what you mean tuttle, not sure how to acheive that with the water, it's a terrain (to get the waves) over a water slab. Don't think there would be foam for gently lapping water, at least not from what I've seen and I've lived near water all my life, but something to be considered. Humorix, you're correct, the tentacles could have been done better. The ship is a small scout and must either get it's fuel from water (hydrogen) or skim a gas giant, so it landed in the water since it's easier. The alien is looking at something that interest him in the sky (they are explorers) what is not really important. What's important is that it distracts him from noticing the sea creature sneaking up on him and of course the guy refueling is ditracted from the danger as well.

Hey Aldaron, the story adds a lot more sense to the image. Never thought of H2O as fuel, and the only fuel one hears of is are all H2O diluted in various proportions if it isn't on the rocks! :-P I wonder if for the next challenge we can have the title of the image and a write up included too when we are voting, AgentSmith? BTW Aldron, hope you have completed the human figure of yours in metaball by now. Also do look forward to a more populated gallery of yours, you images are always a treat to watch! :-) Tuttle...hey thanx 4 the comment of yours in Digital Art. Didn't know there were comments there...or that there were more renderosity members over there too. I just submit and scoot ;-)! I got to notice it today! OK now to important thingz...this challenge has been most fulfilling for me, simply because of all the interaction I got to have with my peers! It was always a few comments, and then congratulations to the winners! This time thingz got real involved and I guess we have draculaz to thank for that! :-D I for one definitely welcome such an in depth look into my image as that which has been given by you Tuttle and would also welcome feedback from other members of this forum. It helps clarify my thinking process, be able to perceive the image better as a viewer as against a creator and not to mention better my art! About your comments, Tuttle, on my image a few more clarifications. 1) The POV had to be higher then the little guy but lower then the big guy, so as to give a feeling of scale! To me the small guy telling the big one to get off his planet seemed to bring out the spirit of the image. Increasing the FOV brought about a certain degree distortion, which I felt, was not suiting what I wanted to communicate! 2) About the way the Ants are looking...umm I had designed them as cockpits...so it wasn't important which way they were looking (or seemed to be looking) as long as the pilots inside were looking in the right direction. I had the pilot and cockpit inside made, but realised that rendering the scene with the cockpit set at transparency, would ensure that I completed the image in the next millennia and definitely not in time for the challenge (I have a 333 Celeron). So had to satisfy myself by increasing the reflectivity and cancelling transparency. I have to complete and submit the image as I conceived it...but have a natural inertia towards returning to improve a submitted image...will be doing it soon I hope though! 3) Regarding toon shading...well it was my silent tribute to Jean Giraud Moebius, but its there only in the image for my gallery (which was retouched in PS), not the image I submitted for challenge (which was pure Bryce render)! I wanted to bring about a comic book feel (something which I haven't done before as well as try and emulate Moebius, an illustrator whom I admire tremendously!), so to that degree its different from that which I have submitted before. But I was hoping people might like it! :-S Anywayz thanx a lot Tuttle for giving me your thoughts! Its helped me with my thought process tremendously!!! Avi