First off I'll admit I only know an inkling of the whole CL/Daz thing gleaned from this forum, so I'm not completely in the loop.

Anyway, Poser is mostly a hobby for me and when I have the opportunity I use it for work. I've been a user since Poser 2, also. I'm grateful to all the artists who have created extra models and content that let me create other works, and I'm grateful for Poser being the tool to let me do that. I don't have the time or the technology to create the models that are available to buy, so I do buy them.

I made a concious decision to purchase Poser as most of you did. Yes there may be bugs, but I'm impressed with speed with which CL is dealing with them. I'd say there is very few applications that don't need a patch at some point.

Yeah, I've been rambling, ok. My point, I guess, is that CL went from these iterative versions to something really huge. There is a tremendous amount of power in P5 for not a lot of change. It's amazing to people trashing it in here like it just sucks. Look at some of the work being produced, it doesn't suck. Talent is still a factor in any artistic medium, and so is time. Some have more of those than others, and this group has a lot more of both than I do I hate to say.

If you're pissed off at CL or Daz, put it in perspective. You can't get a program like this for anywhere close to the price it is. You can't buy human models like Michael or Vic for LW, Max, or Maya for a cheap as they are. Create your own stuff, or don't buy Poser 6, whatever. These posts of "CL will be gone by the first of the year", who does that help? There are more constructive ways than just crabbing.

Anyway, this was a long rambling post that hopefully made sense.

Makes sense to me, and I agree with you. I had my problems with Poser 5 and the first patch, and I complained about it, but the second patch has solved a lot of problems and I'm encouraged by the changes Curious Labs has made. I hope they have a chance to show us more of what they can do. I'm not having any problems using my Daz stuff in Poser 5 (I didn't buy the fairy wings so I can't speak to problems with those), nor with any non-Daz stuff meant for Poser 4, so I feel the program has moved in the right direction. I'm glad you posted. Thank you!

well said sbucci, I'm with you on this one, and I am inclined to believe that there are far more people that are very happy with their purchase of Poser 5 than those that are unhappy, it is just that the unhappy users are far more vocal. My Poser 5 ran without problems right out of the box and each new patch has just made it quicker and brought new exciting functions to learn and play with. So unless someone can convince me that there are different releases of Poser 5 that have been sold then I find it very hard to believe that the program itself is causing all the problems. Graham

No offense Graham, but you don't know what you're talking about. CL conceded many, many bugs in the initial release. And if not for the very vocal minority you refer to, those very helpful patches probably wouldn't be available to this day. As for slamming them, I'm not for that. I am behind any company that proves it's interested in accepting user feedback and acting on it. To me that's the very best attribute of CL. People are understandably upset about the DAZ/CL fallout because it has undermined the value of many previously purchased peices of software and Poser products. DAZ won't provide support for Poser 5? Is that my fault somehow? Is it the fault of those who bought Tailor & manyo ther fine Daz3d products? Of course not. It's between the two companies of course. But, when it inconveniences the end user, both they and anyone who follows this forum are darn sure going to hear about. I personally think that's the way it should be. It promoted improvement in customer service and what the hell is worng with that. Not a thing says I! Regards, Brent

I agree. I'm happy with P5, for what I paid for it. There have are some bugs which affect some people/systems more than others. I'm sure that CL are working hard to eliminate these problems as soon as possible, so that we can all enjoy using the program. I think we need to take a positive approach ourselves. Cheers Ian

No offense taken Greybro, I agree that there were a lot of bugs, hence the patches, I am also a keen hobbyist rather than a power user and dont push Poser 5 to it's limits which may well have a bearing on why my view of Poser 5 differs to yours, but I can only say it as I see it and my Poser 5 has run sweetly from day 1 and since the SR2 beta 1 patch is running a lot quicker than my Poser4/Pro pack ever did. Regards Graham

Hey guys go visit the end of this thread. http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Start=26 Something very important has transpired in the last 24 hours. See for yourself. Feel the momentum shift.

Maybe I'm having a moment if incompetence (one of many, I assure you) but I can't get anything but a blank page with that link. What was the very important thing that has transpired???

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12440&Form.ShowMessage=928087&Reply=928102#2

"Look at some of the work being produced, it doesn't suck. Talent is still a factor in any artistic medium, and so is time."

No one has complained based on lack of talent. If poser5 works find and dandy for you, I'm certainly happy for you. However that is not the case for some. If p5 is so buggy and sensitive that it won't render printable images for someone then they did not in fact get a good deal on the price. They have every right to complain. For some the patches fixed things. For me, they caused problems. It's not all black and white here.

As far as Daz/Cl, Daz products go with Poser the program. You have to look into the future to see where a fallout could go. In the future will Daz products not work in recent versions of Poser? Will they only work in their render program? See where I'm going with this?

No some of us have been trying real hard to get Dan and Larry talking. I personally felt that if some common ground could be met that it would be best for all parties considered. Well after a very emotional post: Daz vs Mimic, in which both Larry and Dan showed up, we will, in all likelyhood have DAZ and CL working to support each others efforts once again. Larry will be calling Dan on Monday to have the EULA rewritten to accomadate DAZ's concerns. The implications with this one stroke of the pen will be gigantic. WHHHEEEEEEEEEE! I knew it could be done. Sometimes what seems miles away is only inches. Now the goose that lays golden eggs can start producing again in Renderosity/Poserland.9The end users are the collective goose) The post is, I believe about 3 pages back now. Its worth a read. It'll be a historic thread if they follow through. They will...I'm relentless!

I just couldn't get to the post at all...I got kicked to a blank page. I know which thread you're talking about now. Thank you. It is good news, I think....good for you for being relentless with positive results. Apologies for going off in the wrong direction...it really was because I couldn't get the link to work.

I think the most amusing thing about the EULA issue with CL is that tehy have always been willing to discuss a legal agreement with anyone who felt they needed more clarification to protect themselves and their products. To be fair, that was something that DAZ also was willing to do back during the big issue with their EULA. In the end, that willingness to do so on the part of both firms is wha allowed us to continue using Poser as a basis for much of our work.

{Larry will be calling Dan on Monday to have the EULA rewritten to accomadate DAZ's concerns. The implications with this one stroke of the pen will be gigantic. WHHHEEEEEEEEEE!} Don't mean to be a letdown here, but that isn't quite what Larry said. He said "Let's talk about your concerns". Hopefully, they will be worked out because they affect a lot more than just DAZ, but it will depend on whether or not CL is willing to concede on the points we all have a problem with. In a legally binding document that applies to all merchants. Not just in a verbal (or even written) assurance that isn't legally binding. {I think the most amusing thing about the EULA issue with CL is that tehy have always been willing to discuss a legal agreement with anyone who felt they needed more clarification to protect themselves and their products.} Sorry, soulhuntre, but in this case they have not yet been willing to make a legal agreement regarding the P5 EULA (I asked). Let's hope that is changing.

Well at least they are listening to us.Let's hope and pray everything works out for EVERYONES benefit.

For those interested this was Larry's final quote: "I'll call you on Monday. If your significant problem is the EULA, let's eliminate your EULA concerns, and go!"

YEA!:o)

Artist3D how brave are you feeling tonight? The new patch is ready. Are you good to go?

Well Lapis it seems we have helped to get CL & Daz talking at least, lets hope they can sort out the problems between them, more interesting times ahead :)

Hey.....Circle is in the house. Man for awhile there I felt I was negotiating a corporate merger. I'm glad both Dan and Larry showed up when they did; a testament to their courage and intelligence. We all did are part and hopefully the effort will payoff. Everyone will come away stronger when this EULA is finally dealt with and it will be dealt with(I'm relentless). Its too important for all players: the community, DAZ, especially CL and all third party developers. They need to be represented in all of this too. Then and only then will we have a strong alliance that will drive this thing called Poser, forward again. My next challange is to procure a special area on this site geared especially to kids/teens as a place to share and learn about 3D art. As you know I was originally turned down by admin. here but again I'm relentless. When I believe in an idea, I push until it goes through. If you feel like helping push, I could use the extra help. I am corresponding with Larry from CL on this and I beleive he will see the benefit in such an area as well. If he's on board and possibly DAZ then I think Renderosity will come around to the idea too.

you got your right hand man :) sorry I missed all the fun earlier, I was sleeping, it seeming like the thing to do at the time ;)

It will be interesting to see how the EULA stuff goes. Given that CL does have some legitimate concerns and a right to protect themselves I hope this isn't all being put in terms of them having to unilaterally give all their protection up.

Soulhuntre I absolutely agree. I believe in real win/win solutions. CL has stuck their neck out in the past only to have it chopped of so they need to be protected here but the EULA must not alienate all other concerned parties. It really become a yin and yang thing, where the optimum balance point must be achieved. Is it possible? With the right attitude, anything is possible?