Quote - I watched it on a small monitor from dvd.  The graphics were incredible , but there were small problems in the animations if you looked really close. 

The plot was a bit contrived I thought but still believeable as science fiction.

I think especially in a movie like that it's good that the animated characters don't look too realistic...

but that's just me I guess...
 

M

You know I think it's amazing that the only person who responds is the forum's moderator, who also liked the film...

other than that, someone with something negative....

good grief..

M

I purposefully avoided all the hype because I just wanted to see the movie for myself and make up my own mind about it, and glad I did because it had that much more impact with no expectations of what I was about to see....    I love CG art so much I almost had no interest in the story at first, but once the characters, Jake and Neytiri, became the focal point I was all into that as well....  lol    Neytiri was so exotic and cute it was impossible not to fall in love with her, and Jake in his simple but straightforward way was equally as memorable....   they nailed it in so many ways...  

The artists who worked on that film did a spectacular job, though.  I must say I've never seen anything like it before, and after LotR I never thought I'd hear myself say that but there it is....    ;o) 

M

Quote - And ultimately, who cares?

Just make the damn images and be done with it. If someone doesnt call it "art", fine. If they do, bonus points.

But tell me, what are we looking for here? Validation? Is that what it really comes down to?

Nope, don't need that, but facts are facts....   

hey, never meant to derail the conversation with above posts....  

I'd rather stay out of it than do that...  

M

Another thing is that the people getting paid 'big bucks' for their work are using extremely powerful machines and software far beyond what most of us will ever have access to...   they have programs written specifically to do the tasks they need to do..  I have a feeling that if most of us sat down at one of those machines and looked at the interface we would basically scratch our heads and think - 'where do I begin..?'   lol

Kind of like looking at the blender interface..  I wish I could get my hands on a book or something....    lol   

M

Quote - To the folks from CG's credit, making a model is tough. I do it at my job on a regular basis, and it's hard work. So I can understand they're thinking "Oh, it's just one from Column A and two from Column B".

Problem is, they, like us sometimes, confuse art with craft.

I agree with this having tried my hand at modeling with 3D max..  the program still tries my patience even after many hours of working with it...  but I will keep trying to learn it even if it takes years..   lol

Another thing I'm still trying to learn is after creating the model taking it into poser and adding the bones and so on to make it poseable...  a tedious process at best, but one that can have satisfying results when it does work...  

I have a lot of respect for those with excellent modeling skills, but also for the great texture artists, animators, etc..

M

When I think of CG artists I think of the pros who are getting paid a lot of money for their work, because the work they are producing is at a level of quality most of us can only dream about..  

but none of them do it alone...  

they work in teams; one team does the modeling, another the animation, another the texturing, another the lighting, etc..    The finished product is a blending of the effort of all of them, which when combined creates a single piece of work...   so how can only the ones doing the modeling be true CG artists?   if it weren't for the animators, texture artists, etc., it wouldn't work at all...   I just don't agree with that line of thinking at all..  

I do understand the reason for it though - sticking some canned content up there, adding in a couple of lights and clicking 'render' doesn't make someone an artist..  but my point is it can if it's done tastefully with feeling and the simple belief that the reason for it matters...

• personally I love the material room in poser the most..  I know that's where your expertise lies Bagginsbill and I have learned a great deal from just listening to you talk about it..  and I thank you for sharing your knowledge with everyone...   it's what has kept me interested in the program all this time...

honestly that's the whole reason I use the damned program..  if it wasn't for that aspect of it I would throw it away, or give it away or something...   I've learned a lot about the material room since I started, but know I have a very long way to go to really understand what is possible and how it can be used...   it is such a powerful part of poser that I know I'll be using it for years and always love it...  unfortunately I have a very limited amount of time with it because my 'day job' is so all-consuming it leaves me only a precious few hours a day to myself...   

M

I have an old book that I love called 'The Art of Fiction' written by John Gardner...  it discusses art as it pertains to fiction writing, but I think it applies to any form of art...

a few quotes from it:

'Art depends heavily on feeling, intuition, taste.  It is feeling, not some rule, that tells the abstract painter to put his yellow here and there, not there, and may later tell him that it should have been brown or purple or pea-green.  It's feeling that makes the composer break surprisingly from his key, feeling that gives the writer the rhythms of his sentences, the pattern of rise and fall in his episodes, the proportions of alternating elements, so that dialogue goes on only so long before a shift to description or narrative summary or some physical action.'

'In other words, art has no universal rules because each true artist melts down and reforges all past aesthetic law.'

'To the great artist, anything whatever is possible.  Invention, the spontaneous generation of new rules, is central to art.'

'Whatever works is good.'

Those are a few of his thoughts on the subject...  and I agree with him.   I think any tool is fine as long as it is used in a creative fashion...

M

The word art rhymes with -

apart, blackheart, bogart, cart,

chart, dart, depart, descartes, dogcart,

fart, flowchart, forepart, handcart, hart,

heart, impart, mart, mouthpart, mozart,

outsmart, oxcart, part, pushcart, quart,

rampart, rechart, smart, start, swart,

sweetheart, tart, thwart, upstart...

So I guess art is - 
a cart full of farts pulled by an upstart
bogart tart without a heart who loves
Mozart....

or something like that...    lol

M
 

Quote - For me though this isn't a question of attempting to qualify the competence of the artist based on what they actually did in every minute detail. For me if it's an interesting image, composed competently but more importantly that it resonates something beyond the sum of it's elements, then I can accept the artists input. That has value to me.

thank you, this is how I think of it... 

:o)

M

all true...

isn't there another thing to consider though..?   or perhaps it's best stated with a question..

What is art for???   Does it serve some purpose?   and if it does then does it not succeed insofar as fulfilling that purpose even if it only does for one single person looking at it or experiencing it in some way..?  

any form of art if it happens in a void it doesn't mean much, but even in the eyes of only one person it can be a great thing that has meaning...

just a couple more thoughts on it...  ;o)

M   

Most of the truly gifted artists never talk or act like they are superior to everyone else..   in fact, they often talk and act as if they are worthless hacks who rarely have anything of value to contribute to artistic endevour, however are producing some undeniably beautiful work...  why?  because they know what has been done already by masters and also know they will never produce anything equal to that...  but does that make them throw in the towel and take up coin collecting??   nope...

I've always had more than a small amount of suspicion for anyone who goes around talking as if they are a 'great artist' and only give negative feedback to most everything else they see..  

I don't know about anyone else..  but personally I don't give a shit what tools you are using, if I feel inspired by an image then to me it works and qualifies as 'art', even if it was created using crayons...

When people say this doesn't qualify as art or that doesn't because of blah blah blah..   you have to wonder what motivates them to make a statement like that and what they hope to gain from it... 

I use poser, photoshop, 3d max, etc., because I just really enjoy using the tools available on PCs, I think the possibilities are endless and any tool that is that powerful has value, regardless of what anyone else may say about it...    am I an 'artist'?   I don't know and don't care...   it's the enjoyment I feel from having the tools at my fingertips and seeing if I can create something that makes me smile..  or laugh..  or cry...  or cringe with fear and that makes me want to keep clicking that render button...   if I ever produce something 'great' so be it, but I won't quit on it unless I decide I'm tired of it and am ready to move on...  :o)

M

That's odd..  it doesn't look that much smaller on my screen, however I have this computer set up with a larger res for easier viewing...

sorry you guys..  I'll try to remember that...  lol

M

Quote -  A set of neighborhood streets would be nice. And here's the twist that would make them really useful:

If you're doing a photo background set, take 8 shots from each location you choose... N,NE,E,SE,S,SW,W,and NW. This allows the use of the background from multiple angles, making it the next best thing to a cyclorama. BE SURE to include the ground, so the characters have something to stand on. The larger these images can be, the better, allowing for cropping during posing.

If you are wanting to do these as 3D models (you don't say) then allow me to suggest a neighborhood again. You need not model the insides of the houses, but at least provide streets, sidewalks, yards, and a couple of rows of homes. This is one of the sadly lacking pieces to the poser universe. Five different shaped houses with different mats ought to be pretty convincing.

I'll buy either product the day you release them. Testing available here also. Just ask and I'll sitemail my email to you.

My $.02

Thanks basicwiz, I'll be referring back to any and all posts in this thread for direction when creating the background sets...

M

Yes please..

Sorry Stacey, I wasn't sure where would be the best place..

Thanks,
Marcus