Vue 4 Pro looks to be an exciting, fun, and feature filled program...I realize it is geared for "professional" users, to import/export scenes to integrate with the user's current high end software product. The feature list is deep within Vue 4 Pro, but some of the stuff would be great to have in Vue d'Esprit... My question is this...how much of the features, if any , of Vue 4 Pro will be in the next release of Esprit??? As a Vue 4 user, I would love to know if the Plant Editor,solidgrowth3, skydome export, animation capabilites, renderers, etc are to be integrated into Esprit. What I see in the Pro version, will make me purchase that if I know these new features will not be forthcoming in the next release of Esprit...I do not want to wait for Vue 6 or something to obtain these fabulous new features. Of course you guys would like us to buy the Pro version anyway, yes ?? LOL

I know the feeling... for me, the killing feature that will NOT convince me to buy this version pro is the absence of support for poser 5. Since I am using poser 5 and Vue together a lot, I will just wait either for Vue 5 or until this feature makes it into the 'pro' version.

There will be a free updater so you can use Mover 4 with Vue 4 Pro. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

I am confused, I have Vue 4, just bought Mover 4 and also Pro, I will install Mover 4 and then Pro (in that order right?), will Mover 4 still work. Sharen

OH yea, I saw what Pro can do verses Vue 4, I totally think it is worth it, also it does work with Poser 5. Sharen

thanks Sharen...I see Lynn has opted to skim over the original topic... My main thing is I don't want to be on 2 loops of program updates..one for Esprit, one for Pro.... I am not a pro and do not need the functionality of swapping between applications, nor any other feature that is exclusive to working between Vue and the high end apps...other than Poser and Vue... but like many of us here, am totally blown away by what I've seen early on in Vue Pro. All I want is a straight answer so I can make an informed decision...which track do I base my future purchases on...Pro or Esprit ???? I can't afford both, but if these cool new features are to be ported over to Esprit, I'll just stick with it and the upgrade pricing track presented for this product. Otherwise, I'm saving my shillings for Pro...hopefully they have a payment plan....:) Or can extend the current upgrade pricing level a bit longer than 15 October

I think the question concerning content of Vue 5 compared to Vue Pro is a valid one. I mean, Vue Pro looks nice, but most of the features would be of no real use to me - or many other hobbyists. Obviously the new Solidgrowth and possibly the Wind thing, but if these features or cut down versions of them are likely to appear in Vue 5 in the next 6 months or so, why buy Vue Pro?

Oh I see what you are saying, I guess I assumed that Pro will eventually replace Vue4, I am just assumning that, I can't see holding 2 programs that are almost identical, but that is just me. I look at it as an upgrade to Vue 4 with extra features like Poser 4 to Poser 5....I could be totally wrong to look at it that way, but I do....I understand your thought though, and it should be addressed, is this the upgrade to Vue4 or will there be a Vue5 and Pro...I got it now. Sharen

Since Bryce is now well sort of gone, and I took the survey for Vue vs. Bryce at e-on, I figured that E-on took some of the great features of Bryce that Vue did not have and added them to Vue Pro, when you look at the feature for instance of editing your Vegetation, actually really editing it, that reminds me of Bryce 5's editor for their trees. I can't see why even a hobbist would not want that feature it is a great feature and Brycers loved it and they are hobbist. I would think that those features would be of use to more hobbist then not, but I could be wrong. Sharen

Hi Sharen... E-on has now established a new track/program...the "PRO" version of Vue, and are retaining the "Esprit" version of Vue as well.... So, I guess the bootom line is where Vue d'Esprit is headed. Will it acquire the new features? When...what version, if so ? I'm a new user to Vue...with version4, having "upgraded" from Bryce. There are 2 things in Vue 4 that kindle my interest in it...the vegetation, and the atmospheres... These are foremost...then we see in Pro, the ability to apply wind....wow...plants that bend...just awesome.. PLANT EDITOR...let alone vegetation, we now have the ability to create more...something severely lacking in Vue d'Esprit... Skydomes and stuff.... new material editior or expanded ??? and even more.... So are these coming to Esprit or not...and unlike others have stated, I'm all for the full blown versions of these features, not toned down or crippled ones. If it has to be an addtional purchase to acquire the full Plant Editor, so be it...at least reasonably priced....I have no use for something that is not fully functional. So, at least from the information presented thius far, I think my only recourse is to move over to the Pro version. But it all depends on where Esprit is headed...and the wallet.

Sharen - when I said hobbyists would be interested in Solidgrowth, I kinda meant the whole plant editor thing. Sorry, should have made that clear! Nick

yep im interested in a upfront answer here aswell. i realy feel like vue4 pro is the next purchase but before making that decision it would be fun to know if and what vue5 d esprit will have, anyway, its a valid question which it would be fun getting an answer to :).

Yes, I understand, I did not know that the 2 would be separate, like I said I assumed it would be like Vue4's upgrade, I see I am incorrect. Niandji, I understand what you mean, I should also have been more clear. I guess from my perspecive, I came from Bryce 4, then had just gotten Bryce 5, before I had heard about Vue, then MikeJ introduced me to Vue and I fell head of heals for it, but I did really miss the Tree editor from Bryce and that little pencil that colored in a specific rendered part. Then when Vue had that survey regarding Bryce vs Vue, I was sure that there would be eventually a combining of the 2 software's under Vue's name. I am also assumning this is the beginning of the New Vue....I would never have thought like I said that there would be Vue4 and Pro, but what Dave said makes sense, that you could add these features to your existing Vue 4....now I am so confused I am going back to read it again. Sharen

I would guess that most of E-on's recent efforts and resources have gone into producing Vue Pro, which leads me to believe that no Vue 5 of either version is coming anytime in the near future. If I can swing the $ in the next month, I'll buy Vue Pro. I think that the wait for whatever will be in Vue 5 will be at least months, if not more. That being said, I do think E-on should provide as much guidance about future product direction as it can. Vue 4 Pro includes many of the things a lot of us were expecting in a hypothetical Vue 5, so there's now a lot of mystery about what will come up in any 5 version. Hopefully the company will plan carefully to avoid the perception that Vue d'Esprit and the Pro version are just 'leapfrogging' each other in new features. People are already leery about software companies' upgrade policy - I'd like E-on to keep its friendly face! Looking forward to experimenting with all the new stuff in Pro!!

Now I have a question, If you have Vue 4, when you install Vue 4 Pro, will it have it's own directory or will the 2 combine? Sharen

Straight as it can get :-) Vue d'Esprit 4's future is Esprit. Esprit isnt close enough to being ready to talk about it. I cannot say what's going to be in it, only that its going to be more feature rich than Vue d'Esprit 4 and likely remain at the same price point. A software company that talks too much about future products almost always shoots itself in the foot. Vue 4 Professional is in our pro line of products (we see Ozone in this same group). The features in the Pro line are responsive to what digital production houses and 3D animators tell us they need. These customers make their daily bread off of their software. I know some folks are wondering if they should wait and see what's coming in Esprit. If you see a feature in Pro that you really want, I think you should take advantage of the limited time offers now -- we cannot make any guarantees that a given feature will be in Esprit. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

What I would like to know is why, were I to upgrade to Pro, would I want to upgrade Esprit to v5 later? It seems like Vue 4Pro is a superset of Vue D'Esprit 4, rather than an entirely separate product, so the two implications do not jive, to me.

Don't take offence here, these are my true feelings towards the company ONLY. Here we go... --- Sorry to be a pain Lynn, but that answer is totally evasive and almost geared to making us buy Pro or risk losing out of the special price. It's a valid question that was asked, will features such as the new solid growth, wind etc be in the standard edition? What kind of support can us, the regular users expect in the 'standard' version. If the only difference is 'professional' application integration, great, I'll stick with Esprit. If the Esprit line just becomes a 'poor man's Vue 4 Pro', then at least we know where we stand and upgrade if we wanted to. Let me put it another way. I bought Vue 3 and Vue 4, because of me, I know E-On also got some additional sales from people who were going to go for Bryce. God knows how many people have been steered E-On's way via the people in this forum alone, let alone 3DCommune and all the other places. To be frank, E-On owes the standard Vue users, E-On are where they are because of us, so E-On is getting some cash from the high-enders now, good luck, god bless, but don't shaft us in the process. Bryce is all but dead now, you have very little competition in this marketplace, don't shoot yourselves in the foot with us. If E-On gives two cents for Vue 4 users, how about this. If we, registered users of the standard version, wait for the new Esprit version and we realise it's missing stuff that Pro has that we want/need for our artwork, how about E-On honouring upgrade prices on Vue Pro at the special offer discount currently on offer. I and others are not willing to risk money on a feature set in Pro that that could be included in a lower price product just to help pay for 'professional' application integration. This whole affair has really got on my nerves, it happens all the time, end-users like us keep companies affloat until they have a big enough reputation to head for the big leagues and larger wallets (thanks largely to our hard work with the artwork) and in the process we get wrong footed. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts. Best wishes Jody

"A software company that talks too much about future products almost always shoots itself in the foot." Well, Lynn, if that's your policy line on release of information, I think you're in a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't! Aside from the usual rip-off on US vs. European pricing, the initial side-grade offer is not unreasonable. But it is still a substantail amount of money, much of which is paying for features such as animation and high-end workflow integration that is of no interest to me whatever. Given the assurances that the Vue d'Esprit line will continue, I find it hard to believe that the enhancements will not include most of those that I find attractive in Vue 4 Pro - notably the vegetation editor and to a much lesser extent the wind thing. A faster render engine would be nice too, but having just majorly upgraded my PC, that is not of primary concern to me. So in the absence of any statement of even the most general nature about the likely content of a future Vue d'Esprit, I shall probably stick with my assumptions and wait for that upgrade for a product in the same price range as Vue 4.12 rather than possibly get hooked into two upgrade cycles, one of which is much potentially more expensive and likely to continue to develop in areas that are of no interest to a hobbyist such as myself. Call me cynical but it seems to me that this short time period for the intial side-grade offer and the starvation of information about future directions are a marketing ploy to get as many of us to sign-up to the Pro version as possible, and of course thereafter into a more expensive upgrade cycle. It is inconceivable that the company does not know at least in general terms whatit plans to include in the next version by now (unless of course there is no intention of a next version...), so I think you owe it to us, your loyal existing customer base, to be open about it and enabls us to make an informed decision without this added time-pressure of 15 october hanging over us like a Damocletian sword while we wait for straight answers.

this is a dilemma... If we "upgrade" to Pro, and then Vued esprit5 comes out with the features we "consumers' want, we are basically out of the Esprit loop....and into a more expensive upgrade path...but probably will not upgrade, especially if the focus is on high end integration...and at that point more than likely not wanting to pop another $150 or so on VuedEsprit 5. If we don't upgrade, and Esprit5 does NOT contain the requested great features, we are disappointed and also have missed the cheaper upgrade path to Pro... what to do what to do??? E-on, at least have some mercy and grant us the possibility of the $299 path to Pro if the next version of Esprit does not contain desired features.

I think that many doesn't understand that Vue 4 Professional is what it says: A software for professionals. If you choose to purchase Vue PRO, even if you are not a professional but just because you want to have only 2 of its multiple and terrific new features, you will not want, at a later moment, to update from Vue 4 to Vue 5, but upgrade, whenever, to a new Pro version. You will not want, because in discovering Pro, you will use the otherfeatures too (even if you don't do animation) and you would not like to miss it anymore (new light features, automatically seamless made Reflection maps from any bitmap, 100% syncronisation with Poser 4 and 5 and high end software, ability to replace automatically lights and primitives by another one, exporting objects and Plants, and and and...) Vue 4 Professional has much more to offer then just a plant editor and wind (and not only to animators). I cannot imagine that these features will be in a future Vue d'Esprit 5. Maybe small parts of it as a separate sold additive like Mover 4?? MHO Guitta

Why should these features be restricted. A Plant edito, for example, is a natural evolution of the already established SOlidGrowth. Wind effects for still or animation rendering is another natural evolution for the render engine in Vue. The point is, why should these features by restricted to professionals? What constitues a 'professional' product, besides the inflated price tag. Vue 4 is an absurdly powerful program, if E-On want to expand this to professional applications, such as Lighwave and 3DS MAX etc, produce a plug-in that links them. I think this is a really rough deal, either upgrade and be hooked into more expensive product or don't and be damned. It's a blow for us loyal Vue customers.

With this opinion, jarm, just wait for a new Vue d'Esprit version to come out. :-)Guitta

BTW e-on has NEVER blown their customers. They always were and always are listening to our wishes. It makes me angry when somebody sais so. "Rome was not build in one day", just wait. Guitta

Hi Guitta I was not inferring you had deliberatly gone out to damage the customers, that is obviously not what ANY company does. I have always found E-On a reseanoble and decent company to deal with. If anything E-On has always gone out of it's way to clarify information for the users, your presence in these forums is an obvious example of this. It's just this whole situation is very vague and leaves a great deal of questions unanswered, telling us to 'just wait' is the wrong thing to say, after all, what if the new Vue d'Esprit doesn't have some of the features the pro version has, I then lose a very good saving on this new version. I cannot afford both upgrade paths. As always it is all about money and what the best route for me, the user is. I obviously don't expect to see ALL the Pro features in the standard Esprit, most notably integration with other programs for example. It would be nice to have a shortlist that's all. Take a good and relevant example. When Poser Pro Pack was released it was very clear what was going to be included in that product and who it was aimed at. The company involved also indicated what features were carrying over into the newer version of Poser (then they went belly-up and sold to Curious Labs, but hey-ho). it left everybody with a clear path ahead. I guess I'm letting my emotions get the better of me in the writing, for which I do apologise, I don't mean to be as blunt as I probably have been. I just wish the situation was more clear for us so we can all make a clear purchasing decision. As mentioned, I apologise if I appear harsh, I do not mean to be. best wishes Jody

"I was not inferring you had deliberatly gone out to damage the customers" I'm not e-onsoftware, jarm:-) The "problem" is that nobody said that a Vue d'Esprit 5 is in work for now, even not Lynn. He said: "Esprit isnt close enough to being ready to talk about it." :-)Guitta

"BTW e-on has NEVER blown their customers." I know there's a language barrier issue, but I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot, err, pole, Guitta. ROTLMAO!! (Yeah, I know real immature ... but I couldn't resist.) Back on track, I agree with the others that a straight answer from Lynn or anyone else at Vue would be VERY welcome. The others points are well layed out, and very reasonable. It is quite the dilemma for the pro-sumer. -Tim

Sorry getting my people confused, plus I'm at work so writin in a bit of a hurry :-) I'm stepping away from this until I see how it pans out. Best wishes Jody

It just seems to me that e-on have handled the whole thing in a half-assed way. Its great that they are promoting their new shiny baby while promising continued commitment to their core users the hobbyists, but what does that commitment amount to? A limited time reduced rate offer to upgrade to the Pro version, and minimal information about what is intended for the next incarnation of Esprit. As far as Im concerned, the value for money aspect of Vue Pro compared to the high end Apps is incidental. What concerns me is the value for money aspect of Vue Pro compared to Esprit now. As it stands, when we are in position to compare a future Vue Esprit upgrade to Vue Pro, Pro is gonna cost $100 more than now. All the while, weve got E-on and the great and the good of the Vue community telling us how brilliant (and flawless!) Pro is. Im not questioning that, BTW. But its been the main topic of conversation on this board and others since the announcement, and it just seems that no one in the Power Vue camp seems to grasp the cautious hobbyists argument. How about this If E-on are committed to their existing customer base, as it appears, why not keep the Pro upgrade offer in place until they are ready to make a statement about Vue 5? They would surely ship more units at $299 rather than $399 if they did that, anyway. Just my two pence worth no offence intended.

Bummer..I had just written this eloquent statement, hit reply, and it went to a sql error page...then all of a sudden the entire Renderosity site wouldn't open... guess my words of wisdom were'nt wanted..and I have no desire to rewrite... sorry :)