Ok I was gonna post something about this yesterday, but i had a computer hiccup, and wasn't able to finish my thought. So here goes again. I don't usually have these negative feelings about art, or other artists, or other galleries. But I recently entered a calendar contest through Deviant Art, that was sponsored by Daz. You know the new owner of our beloved Bryce... Anyway It has occured to me that the people running both of those galleries,(DA and Daz) Have to be the most unreliable, snobbish group of buffoons I have ever dealt with. Thier customer service truly sux. They have an elitist mentality, like no other I have ever seen. If this is what is to be expected from Daz regarding customer service with Bryce then we are all in a world of trouble. Course it can't be no worse than Corel, but I just had high hopes with Daz. Makes you truly appreciate what you get here at Renderosity. Am I the only one that feels this way with these 2 companies, or am i being to critical. Since I have had only limited dealings with either, I thought I would get your thoughts. I mean it's not just Customer service, the community in general just seems elitist, I know you get that everywhere, but with them it seems even worse... Ok I'm through ranting now...

I post at DA once and a while. Haven't dealt with the Big wigs there really, but I do know the accepted attitude there is generally a highbrow, elitist one. As for Daz, I have only had to deal with Customer Service once. But they were helpful and quick to resolve my issue. I dont go to Daz Forums at all, so I can't speak to that. As far as DA.. you have to use your pirated 3dmax/Maya software, or you are an outcast...lol (come on, how do all these 19yo afford 4K $ progs.. yeah right!) -B

Haha, right on, striving, I'm still struggling to save some money to get new full version of Cinema4D (which is cheaper) and they all are waveing with Lightwave, Maya, 3DStudioMax, SoftImage and what not :)

Message edited on: 11/09/2004 22:49

Hythshade, you aren't the only one not happy with the most unreliable, snobbish group of buffoons at DAZ. Try getting help with DAZ studio and you might as well go to a zoo and talk to the monkeys because you would get more help and you would probably understand them better. Here is a great example of their help/customer service. My girlfriend who is new to using Bryce decided to get DAZ Studio and give it a try. After downloading it and getting the free models/props she went and bought some others that she liked. There was a problem with her purchase so she did the correct thing, she emailed the sales people about it. A day later she still had no reply so she posted about it on their forum where she got a reply from a member of that site who told her that it takes 2 days for them to reply to emails. Another person posted a reply and told her that he waited 3 days before getting a reply from them. She finally got an email from the sales department who finally sorted out the problem she had, nearlly 3 days later. To me that is very bad customer service. My girlfriend loves Renderosity for their quick replies and the helpful service the staff here gives, she emailed them about something and in no more than 2 hours she had a reply and all was dealt with in a friendly and courtious manner. She reads the forum on here a lot and finds that the members are helpful to all no matter if they are new to 3d or have been doing it for years, she also likes the way that people joke around and still stay OT. She no longer visits DAZ forum or their site, what she calls them i wont post because it is totally against the TOS but she said what you called them is mild to what she thinks of them :)

And dont forget the "cheap" render engines + plugins... :)

I've always received satisfactory service from Daz's sales person. Especially since they have to deal with Poser users all day long.

Seldom visit the forum. Have made two posts, the second was justifiably deleted by the mod.

As far as DAZ's 'snobbish' attitude, I think they just want to attract a more professional customer base (not to exclude us, but to make it more 'serious') so they maintain high standards, to project a coherent impression. (think I might have wandered on that last point.)

Haven't had any experience with Deviant Art, so I'll just blame them for any problems.

Possibly a more beginner friendly image, just saw their new tut.

Message edited on: 11/10/2004 00:50

xenic - I could not disagree with you more. DAZ does not give a rat's butt what sort of clientele they have. Take for example the write up on the DAZ|Studio page. Talk about dumbing down the digital arts. As for their service, yeah, it bites. Three days for an email reply? Eh....

I post work at Deviant Art, but only so that one of my non-Rosity friends can see it. I can't say I am too impressed with the place, but I wouldn't say they are elitist. If anything, the exact opposite: they'll let anybody in. I posted my last image there in the middle of the night, their time, and I think it enjoyed maybe 15 seconds on the front page before being buried by blurry pictures of some dude's ass. ;)

Message edited on: 11/10/2004 01:26

Message edited on: 11/10/2004 01:26

Hmmmm, is Drac posting there now? just kidding Drac!

lol jaymonjay, That is so true about the blurry pictures. When I said elitist, really I am referring to DA message boards, and many of the so called professional modelers...Thier words not mine. They love to bash on Bryce users. They act like Brycers are to stupid to actually be able to use anything else like 3ds or maya. They truly balk when you say why would I want to?...Especially if I end up acting like my sh** don't stink!!! Whenever I have posted anything there I just end up feeling dirty... Ok that was a little dramatic, but you get the point ;-)

They have message boards? Musta missed them, blinded as I was by all the glittering, flashing avatars and emoticons. The place is like a casino. :)

Oh, and as for the goons that look down on our beloved Bryce: insert TOS-violating rant here

As to the DA, check our Copyright Laws forum. :-) Not lately, but still...

Maybe someone should send this thread to Daz and see what they have to say about it. It should only take a week or two.................

Well, my personal experience at DAZ has been nothing but excellent. If you want enormous delays and spectacular screwups, try SBC/Yahoo! As far as DAZ studio, it's a work in developement with tons of problems. DAZ should not be trying to sell product strictly for use with D/S until it works right. DAZ forum, like many others, I find awkward. I like "Rosity" and maybe that's what I'm used to. As for DA, don't know 'em, don't care. But back to DAZ, I think they're a great bunch and generous to a fault. My $.02

I've never been to DA, so can't comment there, but I have been to DAZ.

Onto DAZ .... I've found their customer service to be polite and very human (not some clinically sanitized auto responses I've gotten from other places). Sometimes it has taken several days to get a response to an email from them, but the problems I emailed them about weren't life or death, and I think their servers and store software was imploding at the time so I was willing to cut them some slack. And the problems got resolved.

I must say though that I have never noticed a snob attitude by the DAZ staff either.

Not sure about them trying to bring in more professional people either at the expense of the "ordinary user" - from the advert blurbs for D|S I'd say that, if anything, they are trying to bring in more people from non-3d backgrounds to 3d (and to DAZ... they are a business after all), and that can only be a good thing.

As for dumbing down the 3d arts... well, I think, to a certain extent, thats whats needed to draw more new people in - make it easier to get a reasonable beginning result with as little frustration as possible. The "Load and Render" thing they mention on the D|S page, however, does concern me a bit lol.

The DAZ forums - they just have a different style to around here - some of their forums do have a bit more of a carnival atmosphere.

The one thing I think DAZ should do maybe is to slow down a little - to me, they seem to have an aweful lot of oars in the water just at the moment. I think some of the poser folks would agree with me there, given the issues they've had recently with some of the new releases.

Message edited on: 11/10/2004 06:25

Well... I only had to contact customer service at DAZ one time. I had read in previous posts at DAZ that one is better off calling them on their 800 number as there can be several days involved in using the email rout. So, that is what I did.... called them. It took less than a minute to get my issue resolved and they were happy to help me. So I can't say anything negative about their customer service/support. I feel like Nukeboy and Flak about DAZ... a great bunch of folks, excellent customer service/support, polite and "human", and extremely generous to a fault. As for Deviant Art... like Striving said... must use pirated software etc. Thus the name "DEVIANT" Art. Lol

Havent had any problems with the DAZ staff either, despite all the bitchin i did when they just bought Bryce. Ive met nothing but professional attitude from them. Cant say anything about Deviant Art, but elitist assholes exist everywhere, unfortunatly.

I guess my only real concern with Daz is the collaborating with DA. I have purchased several products from Daz, and everytime I have always been extremely pleased. I did have a credit card issue once, that freaked me out a little, but I called the 800 number and it was resolved immediately. But this recent contest they held through Deviant art turned into a nightmare on Deviant arts site. First off DA says in thier TOS they basically own the copyrights to anyones work that is uploaded to thier galery which worries me. Then they don't meet thier deadlines for announcements, by several days. If you ask questions about what the problem is you are ignored, or told to shutup. After thinking about it you are right Flak. Daz has to many oars in the water, and I would hate to see thier reputation go down the toilet because of thier association with Deviant Art...That's just my 2 cents. But as far as Daz I will still keep purchasing from them, I will still submit works in thier galleries. I just will think twice the next time I enter a contest through them.

its been my experience that everyplace has elitists and they make no bones about proving it. with snide remarks, high-brow-circumlocutious way of explaining/answering questiuons with the worst possible attitude towards just being 'respectful'. these same people make no bones about making you feel small or stupid because, hey, they can! nobody can pull them aside and explain to them that its not cool, all anyone ever has is a CoC, which is laughable if you consider those people its supposed to discourage. by virtue of the fact we are all, words; the instinctual human interaction (eye contact/body language) isnt a factor and any punk with an opinion can easily justify being a smart-alec or just plain, as mentioned, elitist. thiking that because theyve been here (there) longer and have the right to bash anyone whos new or doesnt know what they know.

Attached Link: http://faq.deviantart.com/226/

Yeah, sounds like pretty normal terms. If an online gallery would claim full copyright on images uploaded, they would probably last about an hour or so. As for elitists, my personal experience is that they are usually the wannabies with acceptable work, in desperate need of boosting their self confidence, while the er master artists are almost always the humble, nice guys. :) But if the rest of the stuff is as bad as you say, i personally wouldnt bother posting there. You have some great work in your gallery, and there are other places to showcase them.

Yeah, and coming from one of the aforementioned er master artists, and humble nice guys, you can take it to heart. ;)

When i make my first mil and work for ILM... :)

The first time I posted at Deviant Art I got a comment that said "not bad, for Poser." It was a Bryce pic but had Poser characters in it. I IM'd the dork, and he went on a rant about how easy Poser is (yea, REAL easy lol) and how much he hated it. A lot there hate Bryce too. Screw em.

Flak said what I meant. It was late and I was tired.