Attached is a poser portrait I did about 2 days ago... Got the lighting and the skin texture set up just right but those eyes are the bane of it all... Can anybody tell me how to get a more lifelike texture to the eyes?

lower bump settings.

for the eyes i think you need reflection.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/-/dazzling-gaze?item=2938&_m=d

skuts: Thanks but I need V4 mat set... not V3....
ice-boy: Thanks but you need to take that up with bagginsbill about the bumps. This is up close and personal.... You can literally see every pores, freckles and bumps (without makeup, that is) :lol:

But you're both right... I could use reflection.... Going do some testing on reflection today and see...

 Regardless of whether BagginsBill or God Himself (though when it comes to Shaders, BagginsBill IS god...) made that skin, the bump is still too rough. It looks more like plaster than skin.

But you weren't discussing skin but eyes :)

The eyes do indeed need reflection. Either a simple anisotropic shader on the cornea (or whatever that part is called on V4.. Tear perhaps?) or something more elaborate coupling a reflection map to it. But they're lifeless because there's no glint in them.

She also seems a little cross-eyed to me, but that could be a trick of the light. It loos to me as if her left eye is looking at the camera but her right eye is looking away. The direction of the gaze is also important to get away from the Typical Poser Look™

Poser eyes seem to be looking at a book or,, something close in default (cross-eyed). Without a reference to (book)m the viewer is left with instant critical impression. Start by separating them by 6-9 degrees..

Specular on eyes makes no sense for the light either. These are things we see in a nanosecond. I think the skin and eyewhite are from different tonal charts, too.. "dead" giveaways.

crossed,, what the giirl said

The glint in the eyes is what will breathe a little life into the expression.  Try creating a low intensity spot light without shadows and point it either to the face or one eye (perhaps the right).

Here is a link from RDNA on creating more realistic lighting and shaders by Olivieri:

http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?forum_id=95&ShowMessage=143845&Reply=339608

This might help tremedously.

Quote - ... I think the skin and eyewhite are from different tonal charts, too.. "dead" giveaways.

crossed,, what the giirl said

/agree  The eyewhites need to be adjusted.  If they want them a bit darker/orangish (some people do have eyewhites that aren't white) then it can be done after they have been adjusted to match the palette.

/agree with trekkiegiirl as well.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=18033

In the VSS shader, you can't assume I put the correct bump strength in for every possible bump map you might use. You have to tune it, because some bump maps only have a varition of 10% (45 to 55 gray)  and others 50% (25 to 75 gray). That's effectively five times more bump at the same numerical setting in the shader.

If you're using the VSS eye shaders, and you aren't using ray-tracing, you're missing out on a big part of the realism.

There is AO in my eyewhite shader and if you don't let it be active, you'll get bad results.

Enable ray-tracing if you haven't.

There is also plenty of specular in the VSS eye shaders. If you have a light at the right position it will show up.

I can make eye shaders with reflection, but unless you set up a window or something in front of the character it won't do much. You need to have something HDRI behind the camera to make a difference with that. If you use my environment sphere and put an HDRI photo of an interior with a window in it, and you rotate the image to ensure that a reflection of the window will show in the eyes, then it might be worth adding reflection to the eye shaders.

I can do that for you if you like - set up reflecting eye shaders. Be prepared for longer renders. Although realism generally demands that, many folks are too impatient to do this kind of stuff.

*Don't forget,, you can go beyond the math function of  1.000 with most nodes. I think I raised anistropic here  to heighten the glint.. Reduced the scale of the spot too. Eyewhite blends to the skin. This is old and I'd do it differently now. *

bagginsbill said and I quote:

Quote - If you're using the VSS eye shaders, and you aren't using ray-tracing, you're missing out on a big part of the realism.

There is AO in my eyewhite shader and if you don't let it be active, you'll get bad results.

Enable ray-tracing if you haven't.

There is also plenty of specular in the VSS eye shaders. If you have a light at the right position it will show up.

I can make eye shaders with reflection, but unless you set up a window or something in front of the character it won't do much. You need to have something HDRI behind the camera to make a difference with that. If you use my environment sphere and put an HDRI photo of an interior with a window in it, and you rotate the image to ensure that a reflection of the window will show in the eyes, then it might be worth adding reflection to the eye shaders.

I can do that for you if you like - set up reflecting eye shaders. Be prepared for longer renders. Although realism generally demands that, many folks are too impatient to do this kind of stuff.

I don't mind the wait... I can set up the render at night before going to bed. About the eye shaders... They are built-in in VSS, correct? I may have to re-do the VSS again... And a big hug and thanks to you if you create the reflecting eye shaders... Your VSS although is still in production makes more realistic "skin bag"  renders than some of the others. I did it once when it came out and compared it to my own renders before VSS and it is a significant improvement.

Gonna  redo the whole thing starting with the texturing from scratch and the look and everything as soon as I finish a flyer for a client. Groan Don't you ever wish there were days, you could just say "NO!" and not regret it... For me it is the money for the bills... shake head...

Thanks all!!! I'll post the result when I finished.....

:b_grin:

Quote - *Realism ain't easy

*Don't forget,, you can go beyond the math function of  1.000 with most nodes. I think I raised anistropic here  to heighten the glint.. Reduced the scale of the spot too. Eyewhite blends to the skin. This is old and I'd do it differently now. *

You said it... but that render is like high up on the WHOA! scale...

A lot of times it's in the eye's geometry too. I get best results with a sphere within a sphere, the outside one with a glass material that reflects nicely and then the inside one holds the texture. Also important to make those eyewhites white. That often the case with unrealistic looking eyes.

Quote -
I don't mind the wait... I can set up the render at night before going to bed.

ehhh your render even with a bad machine should not be longer then 30 minutes. ok if you have a computer from ''98'' maybe 1 hour. not the whole night. 

Quote - > Quote -

I don't mind the wait... I can set up the render at night before going to bed.

ehhh your render even with a bad machine should not be longer then 30 minutes. ok if you have a computer from ''98'' maybe 1 hour. not the whole night. 

It depends.... But like I said... if it's going to be a long render and it's late at night, I'm not going to stay up an hour or 2 longer than necessary... I'm going to set it and forget about it... :lol:

See it in the morning...

(BTW my computer is the latest... or was the latest since last year... and so is Poser

1. if your render is 2 hours then render the next day. why would you leave poser open the whole night if the render is over in 2 hours.
2. you have a new computer and new poser? 
   what did you mean ''it depends''. what are you rendering ? 

Jumping in here with a reply to ice-boy

 Well I've often had renders that took about an hour to finish. If you have lots of reflections and refractions (and reflections of refractions...) it WILL take a long time to render. If you render in any decent size, that is.

I'm often leaving Poser open all night. Why shouldn't I? I can start a render, go to bed and wake up to a finished result. Not because the render takes all night of course, but IF itis one of the "hour-long" renders I might as well do something productive instead of just sit here and wait. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Oh and I have a fairly new computer. Still, rendering with all the bells and whistles on WILL occasionally take a lot of time.

leaving the computer on all night is expensive IMO. it costs money

Quote - *Realism ain't easy

*Don't forget,, you can go beyond the math function of  1.000 with most nodes. I think I raised anistropic here  to heighten the glint.. Reduced the scale of the spot too. Eyewhite blends to the skin. This is old and I'd do it differently now. *

WOW!

Which character set is this?

Attached Link: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/330169.html

Given that's the cost of a Starbucks Grande Latte, I'll gladly cut back one cup of coffee a month in order to have the computer be instant-on no matter when I sit down.

If you're just testing different settings on the eyes you don't need to do a full render. Just do an area render, then it's maybe 5-10 minutes at most depending on the size of the area and render settings.

I turned my computer completely off when I am not running any renders or doing any important projects. (And am in bed, sleeping)... :lol:

Quote - If you're just testing different settings on the eyes you don't need to do a full render. Just do an area render, then it's maybe 5-10 minutes at most depending on the size of the area and render settings.

uh huh... I thought that is what you're supposed to do if you're only checking a part of the render.... I do a complete render when I am finished with the whole nine yards, ya' know??!!???

BTW, what are your setting for eye material to get rid of those poser trademarked "DEAD EYES" stare?

I used to shut my computer down every night until a very smart friend of mine told me it's actually better and less costly than we think to keep it running Ever since then, my desktop runs all day/night. Once in a while I reboot.

I don't drink coffee. That'll cover the cost!

Quote - I used to shut my computer down every night until a very smart friend of mine told me it's actually better and less costly than we think to keep it running Ever since then, my desktop runs all day/night. Once in a while I reboot.

I don't drink coffee. That'll cover the cost! 

It's "better" only in that hardware problems commonly occur on bootup as the power is juiced on and coursing through the mainboard/components. something goes kablooey.  That's a high-failure-point moment.  Constantly juicing the boards would generally be a bad thing.  But, normal use on/off is not normally a problem.

I shut my computer down just about every night.  If I don't do a total shutdown, I put it in "Standby" mode so everything remains loaded and power is shut down to most components.  It's very rare when I leave it on all day/night.

I also never, ever leave my modem on 24/7/365.  Too many people leave their computer on, hooked up live to the 'net.  Not smart and serves no purpose unless you have huge updates you're having to download and are on dialup or something.

PS - "Not" drinking coffee is bad for your computer... or something like that.. .well.. .it's just bad in general, k?  Drink more coffee.  It's good for you.. and stuff.

Thumbs up Richardson. That render might be old but the it is great.

Quote - uh huh... I thought that is what you're supposed to do if you're only checking a part of the render.... I do a complete render when I am finished with the whole nine yards, ya' know??!!???

BTW, what are your setting for eye material to get rid of those poser trademarked "DEAD EYES" stare?

Most of the time I use Black Eyes ( at http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=18033&vendor=11343 ) for most of the figures I use (A3, H3, D3 & V3). Just getting into the V4 and really don't like A4 as a morph. Black Eyes are esp. good when you are doing close ups.

For the last month or so I have been using VSS, the only problem that I'm having with it is that I haven't been able to get the bump or displacement to show up esp. on the lips. Even so I'm still messing with it as it is a good system for applying shaders to anything, just have to get some time and my brain around what bits to change.

Before vss, I used some anistropic and bump on the cornea, sometimes I mixed glossy with anistropic, no specific values as it varied with each scene.  I have a seperate external runtime for my "master" set of mods and shaders so they are easy to find, so my base eyes are in there so I can use them with any compatible figure.

Quote - I used to shut my computer down every night until a very smart friend of mine told me it's actually better and less costly than we think to keep it running Ever since then, my desktop runs all day/night. Once in a while I reboot.

I don't drink coffee. That'll cover the cost!

That's actually a myth.
It used to be true, but since Windows indexes when you don't use the computer, the thing is still doing stuff.
And if the room is warm, the fans go into overdrive.
You could put it in sleep mode, I guess... but other than that, it doesn't save you anything to keep it on rather than rebooting. Not these days. It used to be that turning it on used up more energy than keeping it running, but those days are long gone, with background tasks going nuts while you're not looking if you didn't stop them running.

Well, I finished a client's project, so I turned my attention back to "Grace" and followed through with some suggestions as well as adding the sphere as per bagginsbill's suggestion... Added a fourth light . Tried to breath life into the face with an expression... Darnit!  Expressions are hard. .

Will post a render shortly as soon as I finished tweaking the expression.

Thanks for the help, guys...

I used PR3 and tweaked the lighting setting from RDNA (which btw I had already bookmarked before seeing the link in this thread... )

I used 2 eyelights, reduced the size and intensity.

What do you think?

Way better but too much lip curl or something.. You cannot pout and smile at the same time...lol

and thanks OperaGuy

are you using gamma corrected shader on the hair? because now it looks like its floating.

richardson, who is OperaGuy? I think I put too much corner depth in... Gonna go back and turn it back to zero... It's supposed to be a sad smile or a wishful smile or a painful smile....

@ice boy... no I'm not using the gamma corrected shader on the hair. I am using the setu  from RDNA since it's 3Dream Boys' Hair for V4... I like it... And what do you mean by , it's floating???? I don't see it as such. You're sure? Maybe you can show me what to use in the Mat for the hair?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1818016&member

forgot to quote operaguy.. he commented earlier

Quote - richardson, who is OperaGuy? I think I put too much corner depth in... Gonna go back and turn it back to zero... It's supposed to be a sad smile or a wishful smile or a painful smile....

@ice boy... no I'm not using the gamma corrected shader on the hair. I am using the setu  from RDNA since it's 3Dream Boys' Hair for V4... I like it... And what do you mean by , it's floating???? I don't see it as such. You're sure? Maybe you can show me what to use in the Mat for the hair?

it is not part of the head. you can not use different shaders for hair and skin. both need to be gamma corrected. 

The render definitely looks better than the first; a vast improvement.  Of course you mentioned you needed to make some tweaks to the pose to convey a final mood.  I think the lights are a tad too bright but this is your personal preference, not mine.  You used VSSPR3 for your set up.  Question: Which version Poser are you using?  This is important because it will determine where your gamma correction should be applied.  Ice-boy is harping GC without all the information being presented.  I have seen Afro skin go completely gray with over GC. 
What settings are your light sets?  Combination of IBL, spots, infinity, etc.  And whether you are using AO or not.  There are too many artifacts around the hairline and sideburns for this hair piece.  I have used 3Dream's Boy Hair and have not encountered this problem with my setups.  Maybe displacement a little too high?  AO settings too high? 
I think we need some more info to give the correct recommendations.

I think dark brown eyes would work best with this texture.

 I don't see artifacts around the hair line. I do see some of the hair texture that isn't as shiny as the rest though. Perhaps that's what Iceboy percieves as "floating"? I guess on a too-dark monitor it could look like a shadow (and I'm not saying ice-buy has a too dark monitor, just to make that clear before I'm attacked for saying something I didn't intend to - just saying it MIGHT be a cause)

Personally I think the lips are too big, but I won't outrule some africans having that size lips. To me it just looks like too big. Then again, I'm one of the people who can't stand the Botoxed lips on most Vickie characters, so I'm probably biased agains huge lips.

The eyes look a lot better with the glint in them. Not dead at all.

O got a tip from a guy once when I tried to do photo real renders. The fact that the eyelid actually shadows some of the eye. You can fake that by pplying a shadow to the eye texture. Hard to explain, but I used it on this pic: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=999755 and IMO it makes one helluva difference. (the first version is here, if you'd like to compare: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=999021 )

are the hightligts painted on?

One trick taught to me a long time ago is to add just a very, very tiny bit of blue to the eye white in the base material. Works really nicely.

Quote - One trick taught to me a long time ago is to add just a very, very tiny bit of blue to the eye white in the base material. Works really nicely.

Thanks I'll put that tip to use...

Quote - are the hightligts painted on?

No and why do you think that?

Probably because they look like those eye tetxures that do paint them on. Not saying these were, just it's an easy assumption in light of what's out there.

Quote - Question: 1. Which version Poser are you using?  This is important because it will determine where your gamma correction should be applied. Ice-boy is harping GC without all the information being presented.  I have seen Afro skin go completely gray with over GC. 

1. What settings are your light sets?  Combination of IBL, spots, infinity, etc.  

3.  And whether you are using AO or not.  There are too many artifacts around the hairline and sideburns for this hair piece.  I have used 3Dream's Boy Hair and have not encountered this problem with my setups.  Maybe displacement a little too high?  AO settings too high? 

I think we need some more info to give the correct recommendations.

1. Poser 7
   Not using Poser Pro and about the gamma correction tip from bagginsbill, no.  I am using the set up as proposed over at RDNA. Have it bookmarked even before it was suggested here. LOL :lol:

That should answer Question #2 and 3. I don't see any artifacts and am using the meter unit just like it was stated at RDNA. I tweaked the lights intensity down because in my opinion they were too bright for the background (from RSP Not using Render Studio only the background from it.  )

What are you seeing???  Perhaps because one of the light according to the tutorial is over head(?) could be causing you to see what you are seeing?  and if you compare the poses, there is a vast difference in the poses.

As for the lips and smile, I think the lips are typical of most African American women. I personally do not know of any thin lipped AA women (not going to say that there aren't any  but...) As for the smile. I think it's natural.  The eye texture is just fine for this skin texture. I have seen some AA people with this type of skin texture and their eyes are this shade. Don't ask me, That's the way, nature is. Might be nice if nature would conform to our version of beauty...

I didn't set out to make a common run of the mill V4 based (Caucasian based) AA character. There are enough of those out there. I just wanted to created a different AA woman using the tools and characters available. If some one actually comes out with a very good AA character with skin texture and all, I'll snap it fast. I don't want just the skin texture (and the hair and the clothes.)  :lol:

Thanks for all your suggestions and tips.

>> I didn't set out to make a common run of the mill V4 based (Caucasian based) AA character. There are enough of those out there.

HERETIC!!!!

SeanMartin---

Quote - HERETIC!!!!

:b_tonguewink: