Boni posted at 1:44PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308193

Keep it positive guys ... you are on the edge, so I'm letting it go for now. But please ... be careful. This is informative. But some comments can be construed as software bashing by some folks ... don't want to go there.

Not sure if I am included as one of the guys here, but just in case, I would like to make it clear that, while I may have been negative with some points the main aim of my comments were to try and improve both Poser and along the way the profitability of both Poser vendors and Renderosity. If any bashing is read into my comments it is due to me not wording comments correctly as there was never the intention to bash anything or anyone.

But users aren't clinging to older versions. We have data on this. It was self selecting, but it is there. Poser 8 and earlier makeup less than 10% of the user base. All of those sub forums have been dead from the get go. The luddites are irrelevant.

If a user is too cheap to upgrade, they aren't spending money on content.

Oct 2007 was the release of V4.

Apple has already announced they are dropping 32-bit support in the next version of OSX, and MS is dropping support for the XP subsystem. Even phones are 64-bit.

We may not have flying cars, but the future is here.

"But users aren't clinging to older versions. We have data on this. It was self selecting, but it is there. Poser 8 and earlier makeup less than 10% of the user base. all of those sub forums have been dead from the get go. The luddites are irrelevant."

Agreed but you must convince the content makers and Smith-(Backwards compatibility forever!!)-Micro that the luddites are irrelevant.

Oct 2007 was the release of V4.

Indeed but my point was that much of the poser content still uses methods that goes back even further as you have pointed out in the past.

Many vendors here (and elsewhere) aren't professionals in a general sense of the term. They don't believe in market research - they really do believe that if they make it, the customers should buy it and be grateful that they deign to make things for us to buy.

Unfortunately, 'Rosity encourages this behavior. Given a choice, I'd trade the faux friendliness for a healthy dose of professionalism.

I treat vendors and storefronts just like I do a department store. Sell me shoddy goods and I'll let you know in a hurry that I don't care about your feelings. If I want to purchase something, I am not shy and retiring about letting a vendor know what I am looking for and that I am willing to pay for it.

I want a professional relationship with vendors and storefronts - not a "family relationship". (Can you tell that I spent time in a family business?)

In my conversations with 2nd & 3rd tier vendors, they make it very clear that it is about THEIR art, not ours.

As another example, I watched one vendor nearly have an anyursym (sp) when a customer told them they had only purchased a product for the skin texture, not the character itself. They felt that their "art" was cheapened. Whatever.

I don't have a problem with older products - digital assets don't age - I can give them a new texture or add new features to legacy figures (I added facial bones AKA control surfaces to my genesis 1 & 2 figures for my own amusement.). And with some things, it isn't an option - M3 was the highwater mark for male clothing, IMO.

At the end of the day, like the OP said, opportunities abound for the Poser user.

Hornet3d,

I too used poser for a storybook for kids. I used Kate and she was just fine. There were enough clothes for what I needed and plenty of characters from Renderosity vendors (woohoo) that were great. I'm not going for photo realism here. I see that some people are and I envy their talent. It's fiction so I'm using um.. err.. "Piction."

I use whatever works. Poser works for me. You are probably right about Dawns expressions, but I find for my current book that I can get enough expression out of good 'ol v4 and m4. I admit I am slow to change, and maybe Daz new version is great, but I don't have time to learn a new version. I have more books that I want to write. The illustrations are just fun and help me visualize the scene.

I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.

IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.

Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.

Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.

putrdude posted at 3:26PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308246

I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.

IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.

Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.

Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.

I think rendering is only going to be a consideration for people who want to do more realistic renders in a short amount of time. As I understand things now, SM, and therefore Poser's, main focus is on content creation. I get this, I really do, because making things easier for third parties to create content is where all of thse vendors came from it the first place. But I also believe that Poser needs to get it's head back in the game and show the load, click and render crowd some more love too.

EClark1894 posted at 8:59PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308249

putrdude posted at 3:26PM Thu, 22 June 2017 - #4308246

I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.

IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.

Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.

Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.

I think rendering is only going to be a consideration for people who want to do more realistic renders in a short amount of time. As I understand things now, SM, and therefore Poser's, main focus is on content creation. I get this, I really do, because making things easier for third parties to create content is where all of thse vendors came from it the first place. But I also believe that Poser needs to get it's head back in the game and show the load, click and render crowd some more love too.

Yup, to both of you. I'm reasonably adept with Poser - pre Firefly - but having access to a bunch of useful materials and scripts is vital, unless I want to spend hours faffing around with every single damn thing. The problem for newbies is, most wouldn't know about the scripts or materials. The newcomers most likely won't know about Snarly or BagginsBill, so will spend hours and hours getting frustrated and generally hacked off because their renders look lousy. There's a thread in this forum which illustrates this very thing.

I've been using Poser since version 4.0 (I think). It's great, but oh man what a learning curve for the simplest of things. If you buy content it helps tremendously because it is already made for you. Even then you pose your model and suddenly, their butt is showing. You scratch your head and search google "oh that's poke through" whatever that is, but you click and find out there are forums like renderosity with people with the same butts hanging out. Then you finally get that you can hide their butts or conform the clothing like it's supposed to be. Suddenly, your model turns into a pretzel. You scratch your head and hit undo and poser crashes. So you start over, and you learn to save often. Then you conform the clothing to the body, not the hand you idiot. And on and on it goes making 1 mistake after another until you somewhat sort of get the hang of things. Then you get to the stage where you are able to compose a scene, but your soldier only has James Casual wear. What to do? You buy a soldier uniform that is for M4. They look similar, that should work. You hit conform and your pretzel army is ready to go. You make adjustments and then you realize you can fix it in the image without too much trouble.

Of course if you know photoshop, at least a little bit, you can mess with the textures, and the final product to get you a better result if you are only making a still photo/piction. Photoshop has it's own learning curve (years). It is no walk in the park as amazing as it is. So you keep learning and it gets better.

Then you want to make a movie. This thing does animation? Wow! Soon your pretzel army is dancing over the battlefield in spasms, with their butts hanging out half the time. Oh that motion file didn't apply to your guy? Who knew.

And as difficult as all this is, it's still fun to do. :) So keep on making stuff vendors (I'll buy it) and keep making it better Smith Micro, but think about making it easier, including more animation files that apply to all characters, clothing that adjusts to all characters with an "adjust the clothing to fit" button. Anything you can do to make it easier will sell more programs.

As I've said before, I'm different than most here. The stuff people can do amazes me especially in the advanced section tabs of the materials room. OMG! I just want my guy's underpants to stay on.

I don't want to understand how the paint is made, I just want to paint a picture.

The Village Idiot

I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.

The answer is simple.

I make my own custom razors that automaticly inject lubricant across my purpose built "Genesis" blades and hand the razors out for no money...Free.

people take my free razor and realize it is only really useful with my "Genesis" Blades. I sell alot of blades to recoup the dev & manufacturing cost of my free razors.

Some other company has their own razors. I have** ZERO** control over their production cycles, materials used, physical dimensions and other variables.

Diverting my limited staff to trying to make blades for that other companies razor is not cost effective at best and a fools gambit at worst.

I "kinda" get it. But it's not like it's difficult for them to create a poser install. They were doing it all along. It's not like I'm going to switch because of their models. I really don't see how they are so much better anyway, certainly not for what I'm doing. I wish them well. I always used to buy from them. Now I just shop here or at Smith Micro. I'm still happy. ;)

I "kinda" get it. But it's not like it's difficult for them to create a poser install. They were doing it all along.

Poser installs were easy before weight mapping was introduced in DAZ Studio and Poser. Now it's a different ball game, because the two programs use different weight mapping methods, and also use different methods to create materials and shaders. Because both programs use different methods for weight mapping and materials, it would mean that developers will have to know how to rig and create materials in both programs, and adding support for both vastly increases development time. Add to that things like "AutoFit" and other features that work in DS but don't have direct equivalents in Poser. If you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest DS features, Poser won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in Poser. The reverse is also true ... if you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest Poser features, DS won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in DS.

To put this in a more simple way. Compare Adobe Photoshop to Corel Painter. They both do similar things, both create 2D images and such. So you create a document that uses all of the latest and greatest features in Photoshop. And then you learn that Corel Painter also opens Photoshop files. "Great!" you think. But when you open the PSD file in Painter, you find out that some of the layer styles don't convert properly, or perhaps some of the other features you used in Photoshop don't get imported at all and are ignored. That's a similar situation. Photoshop and Painter are both great programs, but they have different features and approaches. Doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just means that if the software you use gives you the end result that you want, that's what is important.

Hope that makes sense.

I get what ya mean Deecey & agree100 %.

Adobe or Corel is killer for post render tweaks.

MS5EX is killer also ,Does wicked for comics.

For 2D Texturing a mesh Allegorithmic is Killer.

Deecey posted at 10:48AM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308275

I "kinda" get it. But it's not like it's difficult for them to create a poser install. They were doing it all along.

Poser installs were easy before weight mapping was introduced in DAZ Studio and Poser. Now it's a different ball game, because the two programs use different weight mapping methods, and also use different methods to create materials and shaders. Because both programs use different methods for weight mapping and materials, it would mean that developers will have to know how to rig and create materials in both programs, and adding support for both vastly increases development time. Add to that things like "AutoFit" and other features that work in DS but don't have direct equivalents in Poser. If you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest DS features, Poser won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in Poser. The reverse is also true ... if you have a figure that takes advantage of all the latest Poser features, DS won't be able to use them, unless you do some re-rigging in DS.

To put this in a more simple way. Compare Adobe Photoshop to Corel Painter. They both do similar things, both create 2D images and such. So you create a document that uses all of the latest and greatest features in Photoshop. And then you learn that Corel Painter also opens Photoshop files. "Great!" you think. But when you open the PSD file in Painter, you find out that some of the layer styles don't convert properly, or perhaps some of the other features you used in Photoshop don't get imported at all and are ignored. That's a similar situation. Photoshop and Painter are both great programs, but they have different features and approaches. Doesn't mean that one is better than the other, just means that if the software you use gives you the end result that you want, that's what is important.

Hope that makes sense.

I understand that and it is the vendors choice what they decide to do. The reason I feel a little uneasy though I that the majority of Products at Hivewire3D come in both DS and Poser formats, yes there are a few that are Daz only but they are definitely in the minority. I accept that the vast majority of products are aimed and the Hivewire family, which crosses the divide to some degree, but if vendors there can do it why not at Renderosity. They may need a little encouragement but the stock answer has always been 'we cannot influence what vendors produce', Really?

putrdude posted at 10:59AM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308246

Hornet3d,

I too used poser for a storybook for kids. I used Kate and she was just fine. There were enough clothes for what I needed and plenty of characters from Renderosity vendors (woohoo) that were great. I'm not going for photo realism here. I see that some people are and I envy their talent. It's fiction so I'm using um.. err.. "Piction."

I use whatever works. Poser works for me. You are probably right about Dawns expressions, but I find for my current book that I can get enough expression out of good 'ol v4 and m4. I admit I am slow to change, and maybe Daz new version is great, but I don't have time to learn a new version. I have more books that I want to write. The illustrations are just fun and help me visualize the scene.

I get the whole "give them the razor sell them the blades" concept daz is using, but I don't understand why you wouldn't sell blades to the other razor users. Could be I'm just dense.

IMHO, if Smith Micro wants to make Poser better, they need to make it easier for noobs like me to just set up a scene, put models in, click, put clothes on them (that fit) click. etc. I'm not looking for a career in graphics animation or work at pixar. I just want to do illustrations. They might also consider an idea from photoshop where you can preview various changes to the image in thumbnails. This would be great for lighting, but probably terribly difficult for the programmers to make happen within the limited resources of a PC...so far.

Also, I think rendering is going to make a huge advance with the emergence of Ryzen chips by AMD; more cores, faster renders, and they will force Intel to be cheaper too.

Thanks for all the comments. Very informative.

Every 3D artist is different but it looks like our aims, and therefore needs, are very close. Most my renders are sci-fi or fantasy based and so I am not looking for a photograph type output. I like your term 'Piction', I normal describe my aim trying to achieve something that is believable rather the photo realistic and in that regard Poser Firefly renders meets my needs. On the odd occasion I want to try something different there is always Reality/Luxrender and I love the fact you can pause the render and start it again later, it is a real plus in my book.

If V4 and M4 meets your needs, why change, I still use M4 regularly alongside Dawn and create a number of renders with Dawn, M4 and V4 showing an appearance. Where Dawn really stars for me is in portraits, which is a favorite of mine, and the control over the eyes and eyebrows can have a real impact. Outside of portraits this would be lost as in normal scene renders as the detail would just not be clear enough.

I think you are right about the Ryzen chips but I think I would use the extra cores to build more complex scenes that render in a reasonable time than aim for photo realistic renders.

Your comments in your later post about starting out really took me back and I forget all too easily just how difficult and steep the learning curve was. I have a photographic background and know Paint Shop Pro fairly well which may have made it easier for me but it was a real struggle. I started with Poser 5 so I have been learning for a good few years but still feel I have more to learn that I have already learnt. Mind you I think I am glad I started with Poser 5 rather than start today with Poser 11 which is a far more complex beast. Looking back on my first few renders all those years ago is a real reminder of the journey I have taken.

Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio.

Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.

Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio. Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.

I am curious. Do the DS versions of the hivewire figures have the COMPLETE functionality of a genesis figure?.

Examples:

work with the aniMate aniblock system??

I model an outfit , import the mesh and the transfer tool rigs it to a DS HW figure in three clicks like genesis with morphs active in the clothing straight away??

Can be made to speak with the mimic tools by default??

ssgbryan posted at 2:43PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308299

Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio.

Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.

I don't use DS so I am not sure on the functionality, I was just making the point that most items for sale can be used in both Poser and DS. You are right there is some cross over between the two programs with Poser vendors and DS vendors sharing their knowledge. I assume this is because that each side can see some benefit in the products working in both softwares. I would have thought that was a positive trend.

wolf359 posted at 10:46AM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308302

Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio. Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.

I am curious. Do the DS versions of the hivewire figures have the COMPLETE functionality of a genesis figure?.

Examples:

work with the aniMate aniblock system??

I model an outfit , import the mesh and the transfer tool rigs it to a DS HW figure in three clicks like genesis with morphs active in the clothing straight away??

Can be made to speak with the mimic tools by default??

Yes - Dawn includes projection templates for Bodysuit, Pants, Shirt and Skirt

the other two questions ?? i'll just check the aniblock thingy for you and report back - never used the mimic tool in daz studio so don't have a clue about that one sorry.

k - the aniblock thingy - you can load the block and Dawn will perform the motions but I did notice that her feet point upwards - I'm not an animator so I have no idea if your supposed to do something to the figures feet first - hope that helps

wolf359 posted at 3:07PM Fri, 23 June 2017 - #4308302

Hornet3d - the reason the DAZ version of the Hivewire3d figures have less support is that many of the vendors don't use Daz Studio. Many of them are actively looking for someone to partner with to get their creations DS native.

I am curious. Do the DS versions of the hivewire figures have the COMPLETE functionality of a genesis figure?.

Examples:

work with the aniMate aniblock system??

I model an outfit , import the mesh and the transfer tool rigs it to a DS HW figure in three clicks like genesis with morphs active in the clothing straight away??

Can be made to speak with the mimic tools by default??

The issue may not be with the import and rigging of the clothing. It may be the texturing. Most vendors seem to want more than simple image maps, which is understandable. But the shader systems are vastly different especially if you consider both programs have 2 render engines that each use different shaders. Some vendors do not have the time or mindset to learn them all, especially in a program they are not familiar with.

Okay, last one, I promise. I don't really see too much that looks photo realistic to me in Poser or DAZ. There is always a 'tell.' That said, some are amazing.

Like hornet3d, I used it for a children's fantasy book, and now I'm working on an adult sci fi. There are gobs of props, ships, creatures etc for Poser. True also for DS. I didn't realize how much DS had changed the figures for whatever reason, and if they choose not to make them for Poser, its okay with me.

In the land of books (as I see it) there are books without pictures, books with illustrations, and then graphic novels and/or comic books. Only in books with actual photographs NON-fiction, would I have to worry about photo realism...and even then: "is that a flying saucer up there or is this photo-shopped?"

Anyway, "graphic novels / comic books" are huge lately. The images require a different set of skills and are often done by 3-4 people, author, text, art, and coloring. No matter how good it is, it is not photo realistic. Illustrations in books from the Bible onward have been paintings, sketches, water colors or whatever. Imagine if Matthew Mark Luke or John had Poser (not to be blasphemous or anything)

Personally, I like the look of Poser images better than comic book images. Neither are photo-realistic.

And of course the closer you get to real, you run into the "uncanny valley." Hollywood with all their money can't get past that, how am I supposed to with my 1 pc and Poser?

I have found that the norms, rules, conventions, requirements of pictures in books are all a matter of taste. Most reviewers loved my Poser images and mentioned them in their reviews as "stunning" or "amazing." I've seen so much better here in the galleries, but I'm getting better. If they saw the work that people here can do they would be speechless.

Remember the "photo" doing the rounds a few years back? That managed to beat some aspects of the Uncanny Valley in a counterintuitive way, by making an image that looked like a badly lit, amateur photo. Caused a bit of a stir, IIRC.

My biggest gripe with CG in movies is the figures and objects often don't seem to have any - or enough - mass. Over here we had the Walking With Dinosaurs series, and, as I was working in a building full of CG professionals, there were no end of debates, discussions and whatnot about how bad it was. Even someone with the most rudimentary understanding of CG and animation could spot how shoddy it looked.

Then there are the "all done with traditional animation", or "it's all for real" things that get wheeled out now and again. Remember the Honda one someone showed here? Everyone noticed the ball accelerating uphill. Nobody in the production department ever seems to pick up on these things, though.

I have a feeling the Uncanny Valley is something that can be overcome, at least some of the time, but quite often animators and artists make a rudimentary mistake which makes the whole thing roll over.

SamTherapy posted at 3:49PM Sat, 24 June 2017 - #4308416

Remember the "photo" doing the rounds a few years back? That managed to beat some aspects of the Uncanny Valley in a counterintuitive way, by making an image that looked like a badly lit, amateur photo. Caused a bit of a stir, IIRC.

My biggest gripe with CG in movies is the figures and objects often don't seem to have any - or enough - mass. Over here we had the Walking With Dinosaurs series, and, as I was working in a building full of CG professionals, there were no end of debates, discussions and whatnot about how bad it was. Even someone with the most rudimentary understanding of CG and animation could spot how shoddy it looked.

Then there are the "all done with traditional animation", or "it's all for real" things that get wheeled out now and again. Remember the Honda one someone showed here? Everyone noticed the ball accelerating uphill. Nobody in the production department ever seems to pick up on these things, though.

I have a feeling the Uncanny Valley is something that can be overcome, at least some of the time, but quite often animators and artists make a rudimentary mistake which makes the whole thing roll over.

And there's also the uncanny valley of consumables. I have yet to see CGI food that I would want to eat.

I think one day we'll get across the Uncanny Valley entirely, but I think we're still a few tech levels away from doing so.

if they have the time n budget they can make realistic 3D. but who has the time or money. TV don't have the biggest budgets.

vray n render engine like v gallerys has some good stuff.

we only notice the bad 3D .the good 3D we never know it's 3D.

I thought warcraft movie was good n I can't tell the 3D in xMen apocalypse.

Well, I had a good look around the other sights. After what I saw, I do believe there is plenty of room to expand the Poser economy. Maybe the expansion should start with new figures. My suggestion, like I said before, start with eleven. Here is an example.

patorak3d posted at 8:06PM Tue, 27 June 2017 - #4308647

Well, I had a good look around the other sights. After what I saw, I do believe there is plenty of room to expand the Poser economy. Maybe the expansion should start with new figures. My suggestion, like I said before, start with eleven. Here is an example.

I too think that there is room to expand the Poser economy but I am not as convinced with this solution. Hivewire have already started down this route with the Hivewire Family with Dusk, Dawn and for a children there is Diva for Dawn from Pendraia Fae and baby Luna by CG Cubed. Animal wise you have the Horse with many different breeds, including a foal, Big cat the Hivewire Gorilla and so the list goes on with even more in development. Not only do Hivewire have a head start Poser figures do not get used that much, I think I have only used them in twice or three time in fourteen years. Unless they can at least match or improve on figures already available I would much prefer for research time being spent on feature improvement.

So not to start an argument here I used Hivewire as an example as we are discussing Poser. If we were discussing DS there is the same argument, just the solution is different.

If they could somehow talk Gabe into making their figures, Smith would have an amazing set of people. I mean, if he can turn Alyson (Arnie with tits) into something as lovely as Anastasia, anything is possible.

"If they could somehow talk Gabe into making their figures, Smith would have an amazing set of people. I mean, if he can turn Alyson (Arnie with tits) into something as lovely as Anastasia, anything is possible."

It is not really a matter of talking a talented artist into making the default figures it is a matter of $$$properly compensating$$ them for their work.

There are any number of human model makers over at ArtStation or Cgsociety that could do better than the mighty Daz Genesis

(including correct eye/eyelid geometry that genesis sorely lacks)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=358&t=1455122

We all know Bagginsbill is way more capable of creating a better a content library than that flashed based cruel joke, that shipped with poser pro 2014.

However according to his own posts, in this forum, SM did not want to pay him for the cost of a proper one coded in C++.

You poser users are getting only what SM is willing to pay for.

New Poser figure I am working on.

If you sell comics at places like comixology .Who keeps the copy rights ?

a lot of the made out of real paper publishers "not pdfs" sold at real world stores. keeps the copyrights.is why I ask.

There's a lot ,I mean a lot of characters n meshes at sketchfab. but I don't see them sold for Poser,DAZ,Turbosquid,Unity,Unreal or any where. Guess most are for fun n not opportunity.

RorrKonn posted at 11:49PM Tue, 27 June 2017 - #4308667

There's a lot ,I mean a lot of characters n meshes at sketchfab. but I don't see them sold for Poser,DAZ,Turbosquid,Unity,Unreal or any where. Guess most are for fun n not opportunity.

Many of the items at sketchfab would come under 'fan art' so the item can't be sold in a content store.

Many of the models aren't really suitable for Poser, the models may look like game assets but the meshes run into millions of tri's and are really messy, they'd be a nightmare to group and rig

adzan posted at 2:05AM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308671

RorrKonn posted at 11:49PM Tue, 27 June 2017 - #4308667

There's a lot ,I mean a lot of characters n meshes at sketchfab. but I don't see them sold for Poser,DAZ,Turbosquid,Unity,Unreal or any where. Guess most are for fun n not opportunity.

Many of the items at sketchfab would come under 'fan art' so the item can't be sold in a content store.

Many of the models aren't really suitable for Poser, the models may look like game assets but the meshes run into millions of tri's and are really messy, they'd be a nightmare to group and rig

ya some of the million polycount meshes are scans of real people some zBrush n some I have no idea what app they come from. but they do have a lot of low polycount game meshes also. imm has a wicked hunter

I was also wondering if Rooster Teeth the ones that make RWBY on YouTube makes any money ? That's a lot of work just for fun. I was under the impression that Rooster Teeth uses Poser in there pipeline ?

Oh and speaking of Poser possibilities I know Poser was in the anomaly comic pipe line.

http://www.experienceanomaly.com/anomaly/

SamTherapy who's Gabe ? what characters did Gabe make ?

wolf359 Attualy a lot of charcters you see on the main sites are Killers no doubt but is it a complete rigged body that can do all that are characters can do ?. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=358&t=1455122 killers as she is it's just a face. zBrush gallery has some killer characters but if it's made in zBrush polycounts way way to high. you can see just how few can make characters to halfway = r's at turboSquid and there working with high end apps.

bends good ,good topology ,good maps ,good rigs.

I'm talking from experience to make are characters ='s .only 1 out of a billion 3D Artist can accomplish that.

I like Dawn fine one of the best characters ever made I have nothing against her but how she's judge is her topology is considered bad it has tri's n her polycount is considered to high.

I think Dawn n Roxie are killer characters but the way Roxie is judged is not good either.

Most of the Poser characters are not judged well either. To make a flawless 3D character takes Magic.

RorrKonn posted at 6:08AM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308672

I was under the impression that Rooster Teeth uses Poser in there pipeline ?

regarding Rooster Teeths' RWBY - I seem to recall reading that RWBY originally used Poser but they changed over to Maya?

Pretty sure Joe (Netherworks) worked for Rooster Teeth and he mentioned in a thread about using either Maya or 3dsMax to create the models

And Gabe is Blackhearted https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?uid=11343

Well if Roster Teeth got Autodesk then there making money ,Just don't know how there making money. Don't think youtubes click on a banner for so long is enough for Autodesk.

Still haven't found out who keeps the copy rights at places like comixology ? either.

Ant it aggravating when you can fine out anything n everything on the web except for ehat ya looking for.

I recognized the name Blackheart .He has some wicked morphs ,but He don't make characters he morphs others meshes. V4 will never rot or maybe have Blackheart make some morphs for Dawn.V4 n Dawn works great in Poser.

I've never seen any other characters make it in Poser ,Don't know why any one else would even try .there's a 1000 good reasons not to n not one good reason to.

A lot of their revenue likely comes from youtube ads. There's a lot of youtubers making a fortune that way. As in millions. There are youtube channels who have larger viewing audiences than major tv networks. That's why a lot of highschool and college kids can make a very comfortable living playing video games on youtube. Or at least there were until recently, not sure how well they're doing now, as advertisers started pulling their ads off youtube earlier this year due to some controversies and youtube started demonetizing scads of videos as a result. It all started with some drama surrounding one of YT's top gamer channels.

Reading comixology's faq section would answer that question for you. Most likely the comic creator keeps the copyright, unless you sell the rights to a larger publishing house. That's how most indie publishing sites work. Comixology is owned by amazon now so I'm pretty sure it works roughly the same as kindle books, which is that the creator keeps the rights.

AmbientShade posted at 6:54PM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308728

A lot of their revenue likely comes from youtube ads. There's a lot of youtubers making a fortune that way. As in millions. There are youtube channels who have larger viewing audiences than major tv networks. That's why a lot of highschool and college kids can make a very comfortable living playing video games on youtube. Or at least there were until recently, not sure how well they're doing now, as advertisers started pulling their ads off youtube earlier this year due to some controversies and youtube started demonetizing scads of videos as a result. It all started with some drama surrounding one of YT's top gamer channels.

Reading comixology's faq section would answer that question for you. Most likely the comic creator keeps the copyright, unless you sell the rights to a larger publishing house. That's how most indie publishing sites work. Comixology is owned by amazon now so I'm pretty sure it works roughly the same as kindle books, which is that the creator keeps the rights.

Ya I'm betting creator keeps the rights also.

Think Roster Teeth makes Millions ? I'd be good with $100,000.00. I need a new ride n a Lamborghini just wouldn't do well in Coal Country.

AmbientShade posted at 7:09PM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308728

A lot of their revenue likely comes from youtube ads. There's a lot of youtubers making a fortune that way. As in millions. There are youtube channels who have larger viewing audiences than major tv networks.>

Apples meet oranges. A youtube channel may have a LOT of subscribers, but no way can or do they have a sustained audience over various lengths of time, days of the week, and times of day as the networks do.

That doesn't really matter. Youtube's algorithms are a mystery to most people, but the number of subscribers doesn't correlate directly to the amount of revenue a channel receives. It's more about how many views the channel gets. I watch a lot more channels than I'm subscribed to, as do a lot of people. You can figure a channel is only going to get about 10% subs or so compared to number of views. But once you've watched a couple videos from one channel it will start showing up in your feed consistently whether you're subscribed or not. And the more successful channels do have regular audiences and regular times of the day/week that they upload new videos, so their core audience knows when to expect a new video from that channel. And it's not like network tv where you have to be home to watch a show at this time on this day. YT is always on. There are also networks that help promote your channel for a share of the revenue. A couple years back, that same top gamer where all the drama came from, was making over 4 mil a year off ad revenue and had something like 10 million subs. That was a couple years back, the numbers are much bigger now. Once you reach a certain amount of views and subs the numbers tend to start growing faster, depending on the type of content and consistency. And that doesn't even factor in other sources of revenue for channels such as patreon and sponsorship from bigger companies.

Consider also a lot of people don't watch regular tv anymore. I didn't even own a tv for the last 8 years, until I got a small 32 inch back in April. Mostly a waste of money. Was plugged up for about 2 weeks and now it's been sitting in the other bedroom since then. I just don't have a use for tv or a cable bill when I can watch pretty much everything online for free or pennies.

AmbientShade posted at 8:52PM Wed, 28 June 2017 - #4308746

That doesn't really matter. Youtube's algorithms are a mystery to most people, but the number of subscribers doesn't correlate directly to the amount of revenue a channel receives. It's not a mystery to the people who have to place the ads. They know who's doing what, when and where

Anyways I can't believe how easy I found this.

Rooster Teeth 9,050,943 subscribers • 5,010,107,275 views Joined Jul 10, 2006

I'm thinking ,make YouTube Videos. We do have Poser after all. We'd keep the Copy Rights ,Right ?

RorrKonn posted at 4:44AM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308704

Well if Roster Teeth got Autodesk then there making money ,Just don't know how there making money. Don't think youtubes click on a banner for so long is enough for Autodesk.

Still haven't found out who keeps the copy rights at places like comixology ? either.

Ant it aggravating when you can fine out anything n everything on the web except for ehat ya looking for.

I recognized the name Blackheart .He has some wicked morphs ,but He don't make characters he morphs others meshes. V4 will never rot or maybe have Blackheart make some morphs for Dawn.V4 n Dawn works great in Poser.

I've never seen any other characters make it in Poser ,Don't know why any one else would even try .there's a 1000 good reasons not to n not one good reason to.

Comixology was bought out by Amazon, so for those interested the copyright information would be from them.

Boni posted at 4:41PM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308775

RorrKonn posted at 4:44AM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308704

Well if Roster Teeth got Autodesk then there making money ,Just don't know how there making money. Don't think youtubes click on a banner for so long is enough for Autodesk.

Still haven't found out who keeps the copy rights at places like comixology ? either.

Ant it aggravating when you can fine out anything n everything on the web except for ehat ya looking for.

I recognized the name Blackheart .He has some wicked morphs ,but He don't make characters he morphs others meshes. V4 will never rot or maybe have Blackheart make some morphs for Dawn.V4 n Dawn works great in Poser.

I've never seen any other characters make it in Poser ,Don't know why any one else would even try .there's a 1000 good reasons not to n not one good reason to.

Comixology was bought out by Amazon, so for those interested the copyright information would be from them.

I found it :)

AmbientShade posted at 7:38PM Thu, 29 June 2017 - #4308746

That doesn't really matter. Youtube's algorithms are a mystery to most people, but the number of subscribers doesn't correlate directly to the amount of revenue a channel receives. It's more about how many views the channel gets. I watch a lot more channels than I'm subscribed to, as do a lot of people. You can figure a channel is only going to get about 10% subs or so compared to number of views. But once you've watched a couple videos from one channel it will start showing up in your feed consistently whether you're subscribed or not. And the more successful channels do have regular audiences and regular times of the day/week that they upload new videos, so their core audience knows when to expect a new video from that channel. And it's not like network tv where you have to be home to watch a show at this time on this day. YT is always on. There are also networks that help promote your channel for a share of the revenue. A couple years back, that same top gamer where all the drama came from, was making over 4 mil a year off ad revenue and had something like 10 million subs. That was a couple years back, the numbers are much bigger now. Once you reach a certain amount of views and subs the numbers tend to start growing faster, depending on the type of content and consistency. And that doesn't even factor in other sources of revenue for channels such as patreon and sponsorship from bigger companies.

Consider also a lot of people don't watch regular tv anymore. I didn't even own a tv for the last 8 years, until I got a small 32 inch back in April. Mostly a waste of money. Was plugged up for about 2 weeks and now it's been sitting in the other bedroom since then. I just don't have a use for tv or a cable bill when I can watch pretty much everything online for free or pennies.

I'm sure there's some way to hook Hulu ,Netflix ect ect internet to ya TV with out cable. could always have a 32 inch PC monitor Like Tony

I've got a blu-ray player with the music and movie apps like hulu, netflix etc on it that you connect internet to. Think I watched like two movies on it. My desk isn't big enough for the tv. I have a 24" and a 20" on it, plenty of screen space for working on the pc. Just got an ad in the mail today from the cable company for streaming live tv for $20 a month. lol. There's only one show on one of those channels that I'll watch, and it doesn't come back on til October. Between youtube and my steam library I really just don't have any use for tv. Waste of time. I'd rather be creating something.

I think it's wrong to lock or block threads just because of "flame" people shouldn't be so damn intimidated by other people's thoughts or opinions. That's the issue I have with the world today, people have gone way too soft. Especially in the U.S. you get censored if anything you say offends or upset somebody.

I grew up in a heavy flame war era, but as we move toward the political correct era, you can get censored or blocked if your topics become too intense....Hence why when I want to talk about stuff like this, I'll stick to other sites that have a poser community. I've never been blocked on any of those no matter how intense my post were.

Some people just feel really strong about these programs and sadly the lack of Vendor support can kill a program off....I mean think about this, if all the vendors stopped making content, that means people will have to use old content...So how many times are you going to keep rendering with the same stuff over and over? I mean I am always buying new hair, new rooms, new clothes, but sadly all my top favorite vendors are DAZ only, and that hurts my library..As a result of that, I am starting to see newer clothes for Genesis figures. not only that Genesis users also get Poser stuff remade for them...But these vendors will not remake DAZ stuff for Poser.

I have lots of friends who use both programs or just one or the other. I wanted to use Daz because clearly they do have Poser beat in terms of content for certain figures...I mean just look at the stuff for the Kids, and Male figures in Poser....Neglected. I have yet to see someone build up Michael 4's wardrobe the way Victoria's has grown....I hardly even use my male figures because of it. Yet I look at Genesis male figures, and these dudes have just as much as the female figures, and that alone almost made me want to give up and leave poser. But DAZ have the worse interface and I couldn't stand it. Plus I get sick of them constantly making more and more "new" base figures and then they try to charge base prices on all of em. So I am trying to figure out how is Victoria 7 any different from Aiko 6 or how is Aiko 6 different from Ophelia 7, How is Ophelia 7 any different from Mika 7....See what I mean? They break out with so many of these and they all cost in the 40 dollar range. So I'm trying to figure out what's the difference between those figures that always have the number at the end of their name versus the figures that are just characters used for the base figures. Like for instance Victoria 4 is the base, but all those character figures for her are just character morphs...They don't cost $40 a piece, the highest I've seen some of them go for is about $14.00 or $16.00

putrdude posted at 8:40PM Sun, 02 July 2017 - #4307989

Mmmmm donutsss...no wait, about Poser.

I love Poser. I use whatever figures come with it, if they have decent apparel, which usually they don't. So which figures do? M4 and V4! So I use them.

Maybe Dawn is great and Dusk is swell too, but i don't have anything in my closet for them to wear. Also, if you do any animation and use animation files, changing figures can be catastrophic to your animation. The body parts are often named differently and soon you have a dancing pretzel.

I'm think I'm different from most of you hard core users in that I don't want to fiddle in the cloth room, or make a rigging or whatever. I just want to build the scene I see in my head as easily as I can and I don't mind spending the money to do so. Just bought more from Renderosity yesterday and my wish list keeps on growing for Poser vendors. Mostly it depends on the current project I'm working on.

I used to love Daz figures and props but when they changed, so did my opinion of them. I don't even see the sense in their business model. They want to sell items, not the program, but they don't make the items available to Poser users. Since I know they can (always did) I assume they think it's best to ignore Poser users hoping they'll switch. Okay, it's their business and I still buy the occasional item from Daz if it will work in Poser, but I'm not going to switch to DAZ and their program is free!

I also find the threads such as "is poser a dead program" to be self defeating. If you are using it, it's not dead. Seems a little "the sky is falling" to me.

Nothing is forever. I'm going to enjoy using Poser until I can't anymore. Probably buy every new version.

Of course I'm the village idiot, so take that with a large grain of salt.

And now for that donut.

Exactly what you said, ignoring us and hoping that we'll switch. I believe this tenfold....That's why a lot of my friends who do still use Poser hate them with a passion, they feel like DAZ is trying to kill off Poser by stealing the vendors and then eventually coming after the users.

The difference between Victoria 7 & Aiko 6 is the mesh ,uvmap n rigs. it's 2 totally different characters.

accusing DAZ of trying to kill Poser will defiantly get the thread locked .so if you could reframe from getting are threads locked we'd appreciate it.

did maya kill softimage ? did max kill truespace ?are they responsible for LW's prices now ?

the best apps win.

If there never was a DAZ V3,V4 would there have been a Poser ?

If I can't pay my bills who's fault is it ? If Poser dies it's Posers fault.

RorrKonn posted at 8:24AM Wed, 05 July 2017 - #4309200

The difference between Victoria 7 & Aiko 6 is the mesh ,uvmap n rigs. it's 2 totally different characters.

accusing DAZ of trying to kill Poser will defiantly get the thread locked .so if you could reframe from getting are threads locked we'd appreciate it.

did maya kill softimage ? did max kill truespace ?are they responsible for LW's prices now ?

the best apps win.

If there never was a DAZ V3,V4 would there have been a Poser ?

Well, yeah. Poser was here before V3 or V4. That's kinda like asking if there was no RorKonn, would there be his parents? They wouldn't be his parents anymore but yeah, they'd still be here.

Why do some music bands play in sold out stadiums and other bands play in small menus ?It depends how often they put out top 10 hits.Some bands wright there own top 10 hits.Some bands have writers wright there top 10 hits. either way if your a band with out a top 10 hit and you do exist ,who cares ? How long do you think it would take taylor swift to fade in to obscurity with out any more hits ?

Dwayne Johnsons bit in the fast n furious 8 about Taylor Swift n his daughter .was hilarious.