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She looks pretty good! The shoulders don't look quite natural to me but no major criticisms! She still looks like she's floating though! No shadows around her feet! I do hope that's fixable! Baz

It looks terrific!, but I have to confess one question; It says morphs by Traveller - Does that mean he made special morphs for this render, or just that Traveler worked on the original P5 figure? Just curious.

I love the knees and leg definition. The stomach looks pretty nice. I am not too keen on the shoulders, but I don't like Dina's, Vicki's, or Stephanie's shoulders either. Nice job guys.

Oops, was I not supposed to do that?

"Then again, it's also great promotion for RuntimeDNA- "Join our site and see the EXCLUSIVE pics of Poser 5 people."" Bah... Sentiments like this one are somewhat bothersome. First of all because RDNA and Rosity are sisters, secondly because the implication is that RDNA needs to promote themselves in by association, which they don't, and lastly, because they deserve the honor... They were the ones who put their skills at the disposal of Curious Labs. Knowing Syyd I'd say it was the biggest honor of her life to be able to get involved with this for the community's sake. It looks like they did amazing work, so let's give 'em some credit, ok? Paul

Hmmm.... guys/gals, is it me, or does Vicki II look a great deal better than this latest figure... honestly, not trying to be a naysayer, but really this looks very very similar to Posette, who was never close to Vicki II's natural form in my opinion. The hands are too small and the nose and mouth aren't right...the body itself is ok tho. To me, V2 looked like DAZ digitized a real person, whereas Posette looked like a well-done, tho hand crafted artistic version of a human. Placed side by side, as I have, V2 outshines Posette by a large leap in terms of being a 'realistic' looking human form. hmmm... luckily we can still use Vicki II with Poser 5. I know these are early shots, but I guess CL went with the Posette look vice the DAZ Vicki II form. I'm not sure why, as Vicki II was very well done in my opinion. What was the reason anyhow? Just curious... maybe this figure will be more poseable... anyhow, these are just my opinions, but Im afraid I can't buy into everyone else's hype over this latest full-figure. To me, it's a step down from the already well-done V2. In anycase, I'm still gonna buy P5 with the new renderer and maybe enough of us can get some nice work done with the new hair and clothing options. I'm not gonna comment on the hair on these demo pics cuz my mom told me not to say anything if you can't say anything good ;) Seriously tho, Im sure the new dynamic hair will be great once enough us get to master it! Don't bash me...these are just my current feelings.

IMHO, she's very "generic," which is exactly what she should be. There's no way to make a model attractive to everyone, we all have different taste and different definitions of "beautiful." I'd prefer to have the base models generic looking, with a lot of morphs and potential for character building. Another thought, maby she is shaped like possette to accept possette's cloths?

I agree, generic is good.. however, it also has to be good base to start with.. one that will accept good tweaks. I've never seen a rendering of Posette I truly liked in terms of the figure seeming realistic... granted many were well, done artistically, etc. In anycase, it would seem that she would accept posette clothing which is ok, I suppose, tho most of my stock I've bought from DAZ for the Vicky series.

Blitter, I do not agree. I look at Posette5 and I find her very much like a real everyday woman (except for shoulders as someone noted, and lower stomach where in most women the "swelling" usually follows contour of legs line and not that of abdominal muscles). On the contrary I look at Victoria 2 and I find her very sexy but as unlikely as any top model could be - including silicon breasts of course. So Posette5 receives my double thumbs-up. :-) I hope joints at elbows and knees will be better than Posette4 though.

Hmmm, I honestly fail to see how you can look at that demo render of the P5 girl and rate it a more realistic or proportionally correct model of the human figure. I'm not implying at all that better means more sexy... I just mean there are symmetries and lines and proportions that are just 'right'. It's a mute point, P5 is going with Posette it seems, and it matters not since V2 is still usable in P5. I just find it odd that a few people remarked how they find the new P5 girl very nice, since her proportions go against what my artistic feeling tells me is correct. If you feel that Posette can be posed, morphed, etc to create the same range as V2 then I hope you are right! :) Orio - I agree Posette 5 may better represent the average everyday person in terms of sheer beauty, but aside from subjective likes or dislikes, ask an artist trained in the human form, or a sculptor, and see which they find more realistic proportionally. But life is full of differences in what people think is pleasing -- purely objectively I'd have to go with V2 over Posette anyday. Im biased in the sense that I use Poser to strive for the utmost in realism in my renders, imperfections and all, but the human eye can sense what is right and wrong in proportions aside from the supposed artistic value. A good example is the girl from the final fantasy movie, she is by no means made to look like a model with perfect figure, however, her proportions 'seem' right to the eye and so, despite her purposeful average appearance, she looks 'right' and natural and realistic (and I dont mean all the fancy renderings of her.. look at a basic one of her... the bikini shot on rottentomato.com for example). Anyhow -- i've rambled terribly!! :)

I know many people are going to call me crazy, but I am severely underwhelmed. To make sure I wasn't being overly cynical, I called in my professional artist friend. The first thing she noticed is that Judy here was apparently wearing an off the shoulder dress and got badly sunburned. The next thing she noticed was that her hands and head were badly out of scale with each other. Did some rough measurements, and confirmed that the size of her head is "just not right". Her ankles are too thin, especially from the side, and she has the teenyest wrists. I won't go into our further commentary the more we studied her, because it just got vicious. But, I'm afraid if this were a stand-alone product in the marketplace, my money would be spent elsewhere. ~FyreSpiryt "My face, completely normal, except no nose. Nothing; nope, not even holes. Think how disturbing that would be. Aahh!"

"...I agree Posette 5 may better represent the average everyday person in terms of sheer beauty..." (He stands and raises his moderate frame on to the soap-box with his finger in the air as if to give everyone a rousing "I told you so" lecture on ethnic stereotyping. However, he pauses,... and smiles wrly; But thinking that smug silence is a far better gesture, he sits back down.) --lb (just rabble-rousing with a smile.)

FryeSpirty - I'm glad to see at least ONE person who sees the proportional problems with the Posette figure. I'm making more of this matter than need be since the Vicky figures can be used in P5, but it just urked me is all :)

BTW, I do understand the "innocent" nature of Blitter's post...I simply wish to draw attention to how cultural assumptions (both good and bad) consciously/unconsciously shape the texture of the language we use...even mine. this is a ineffable fact of human language. So, no need to flame me with accusations of being overly P.C. Instead, I'm only trying to be a sort of linguistic "Socrates," asking passers-by to question the basis of the language they use. (He politely refuses the stiff drink the crowd offers him.)

Note to Self: Never take advice on realism from people who adhere to the gospels of Stefy Staxx or Voluptuous Vicky. Yah!!! That's what we need bigger tits and an hideously ugly face! Bring out the Vickies!!! Do you overly critical people realize how many times I've had to remake an image because people thought the face looked too "Vicky"? I think some people just have an innate desire to pick things apart. Nevertheless, if you don't like the way she looks, Fucking change her! It's Poser for christ's sakes! Surely I'm not the only Poser user who is willing to manipulate dial settings to increase a model's attractiveness, change body shape, etc. how can you folks be tearing apart this model without having any idea how many morphs it has, what the joints set up is, etc.? Or are those little "irrelevancies" not figuring into this feeding fest? Beyond that, I'm betting there's a lot of stuff that P5 fem can do that Vicky can't, especially if you consider all the new features CL's been talking about. Paul ( who is getting off his soap box to go start clearing up content space for when he gets Poser 5 )

LB's words are fluid like mercury, and puzzling as a chinese-box, but altogether fun to read.

I guess I'm very unsophisticated. I thought she looked quite sexy and much more realistic than Posette. I like the fact that she finally has a name. Unfortunately, I hate the name Judy with a passion. It's "one of those long stories."

The head may be a little big IMHO, but I can scale that down... The body may not look like that of a Playboy centerfold, or look much different than the usual Faerie-like bodies I'm used to working with, but I can shape it to whatever taste I like. Personally, I like her shape now... looks more normal and easily moldable. She looks exactly like the average 30-something woman... and quite a pretty one at that. Guys... Look at Vicky. By default she's Play-doh Girl... and ugly as sin. But with morphs and changes, you can make Vicky a teenage girl, a fat trailer-trash slob of a human being, a supermodel, a regal queen, an old hag, a monster from Mars... and be convincing about it! I think the same goes in this case. Not everyone expects a mesh to simply look drop-dead fabulous out of the box, and I'd be leary of any that did. What I want to know is... can I scale Judy up to 300-lbs of fat-roll obesity, or down to a scrawny 17-year-old anorexic kid, all without the mesh coming apart in either extreme? Can I make her into a half-dragon, half human creature without the face looking like it were molded of plastic? Can I make her any height from 1.5m to 2.5m tall? Most importantly, can I morph her without running out of polys at some critical juncture? That is what I look for in a mesh. Versatility. In Poser, I expect to have to mold her into just the character I've been looking for, to make her unique, to make her stand out! Only the laziest creatures simply slap in a model and expect that to make or break the render... you have to impart personality, your own hand into the mesh... else you could skip Poser altogether and just learn Photoshop for all the good it'll do you. /P

stands up and applauds Penguinisto 'zackly Penguin dude! Now let's see the big fat Judy's and the short scrawny Judy's and the 300 feet tall half-dragon half-sloth Judy's!!! =D Paul

I want to know if I can use her in that cool looking head room to make an Amanda Detmer texture and morphs. Rrrrrroooooowwwwr!

Head seems just about right to my measurements full length of body from heal to top of head is almost exactly 7.5 heads,(actualy a bit modelish in proportion) hands do look slightly small but i'm guessing everyone here knows how to use the scale dials by now. I think she looks great personaly, and no I won't be abandoning Vicky or steph or mike for that matter but these new figures what ever you want to call them will be a welcome addition to my library.

Well, lets face it...she looks a million times better than the original P4 posette. Personally I do not think she is better than many existing models (like V2 and Steph), but I don't think Curious Labs was trying to make the next Millenium figure either. This is decent for a basic model to go with the software. I really always expected to used my purchased characters with it anyway. And frankly, I would still buy it even if it didn't come with any figures just for the better capabilities of the engine. Just my $.02...

I don't see the problem. I wouldn't compare "Judy" to Vicky....she wasn't SUPPOSED to be a replacement for Vicky....she's the next version of Posette. And to me looks like a great step up. Those into Vicky still have Vicky...you just have a better looking Posette...right? Beav

How many of us actually use ANY of our figures - Posette, Dork, Vicki or Mike - in their default mode? Without changes? Without alterations? Morphs? Texture manipulations? How many even use a texture we may have bought without tweaking? I would say few to none. Just my opinion. Based on that, Judy looks like an excellent START to any character I may wish to create. More than any actual dimensional problems she may or may not have, I am more interested in knowing whether or not she is going to require an entire new wardrobe. That does have me (and my wife) concerned a bit. Also, the posts stated something like "Poser 5 hair generation by neftis." I do not know exactly what they mean by this, but if these are examples of the new built-in hair generation system, I am a bit underwhelmed. And I know the quality of work that neftis puts out. But I have thought ever since this new hair generation system was mentioned that it might be more useful as an "enhancement to current transmapped hair sets rather than a primary source of hair. In other words, it might be more useful to get that strand or two of "misplaced" or "loose" hair where you want it, or to help with gravity and movement effects, etc. I don't know if it can be used that way or not and won't know until I get my hands on the program. So, like with Judy and Don, I'll state an initial reaction but withhold my "verdict" until all the evidence is in. So far, however, I have seen no major source of dissapointment. ;-) Take care and be well. casamerica

Dissapointment? What the hell is dissapointment? That should be disappointment! Never try to type with a wounded thumb. Take care and be well. casamerica

Actually, I have to temper my feeling of being "underwhelmed" by the hair generation system after looking at the final image. THAT hair was pretty impressive to me. It may be as much the talent of the manipulator, neftis, as anything else. But that hair style looked pretty good. Take care and be well. casamerica

To begin with ... Poser 5 is not the answer to everyone's prayers i'm sure everyone already has their poser 6 wishlist roaring to go
It seems ppl want a vicki look a like, new rendering engine ..FF hair engine ...and a modest upgrade price of course
Judy is meant to be upgraded version of Posette ..not V3 which is coming out and for those of you who prefer vicki need only need wait for that ... I find that people here will find anything to nit pick at ..if she was too vicki she wouldnt' have backwards capabilty wit posette and that'd be anthor set of gripes
Poser 5 can't be everything to everyone ..But i think considering the price overall features new models ..Your not only getting what u pay for ..but a bit more bang for the buck

I have the feeling that the full 'wow!' factor won't be felt until we see her move. The hair is animatable, affected by gravity and by the new wind object. Collision detection should make my job a hundred times easier and the real cherry on the cake, depth of field, that's a feature I really wanted to see. Judy's superb as she is, but wait till she moves...

penguinisto: "Most importantly, can I morph her without running out of polys at some critical juncture?" i hope it won't be necessery to have large poly count because cl said that the renderer knows displacement mapping/subpolies. that's the same as bump mapping but enhanced, coz it changes geometry to produce "bumps". so if you need really big and distinctive abdomen muscles (that also show in profile), you just draw them - in theory... :) i agree with "generic looking = good" point of view, but her head is very un-generic (as well as spike's - err... don's head), her shpulders are matched only by dina's and hear hands are really small. if poser 5 doesn't have the means to enlarge them more easily then poser 4, that'll be a problem...

While a few people have been complaining that Judy is ugly or parts of her are the wrong size, they seem to have forgotten these pics are early "TEST" renders, they're not supposed to show the next version of the Mona Lisa. Like Peng & others said once we get hold of her we can change pretty much whatever we like, how many people here use posette or vicky in default mode? not many. The new wonderful features we've heard of for poser5 have not been touched much if at all. If you don't like what you see then don't buy poser5 when it's finally released, wait for a few months while the rest of us learn to use it & stun you all with the amazing stuff we can do with it. Personally I can't wait to start playing with Judy & Don to see what they are capable of. Rob

flying blind guys ? weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee dees

She looks great as a starting point and much more realistic than Victoria. But soon, I know, the Anna Nichole Smith fans will make her into this hidious creature. What are you going to call her this time: Juggy Judy? A morph is a dangerous thing to waste. Q

that's good Q :) we've got Steffy Staxx, posetta peaks, Voluptuos Vicky & Massive Mike, now we can have Judy Juggs & Long Don ;) Rob

The new figures will be nice additions. What I need is that morph putty tool - Now! Really glad I didn't invest in ZBrush, which I just wanted for morphing. Yes! - morphs for Judy and Spike. Morphs for Vicky, Mike, Steph and the kids. P5 body morphs for the Millennium clan so they can use the clothes from P5... Arrggh, she wanders off muttering: at least I'm getting lots of non-Poser work done - Elisa/gryffnn

I knew I was going to get flamed. But that's OK. "When you find yourself siding with the majority, it's time to reform." ^_~ First of all, I think Posette's a fairly decent figure. The joints have their problems, but the inherent mesh, IMHO, is pretty good, and her proportions are more realistic than Vicki's. I still use her most of the time, even though I own both Vicki and Stephanie. Frankly, I think default Judy here is a step down, but that's just me. Secondly, I do expect a figure to look good "out of the box". Whether I intend to use her that way or not is immaterial. The fact that I would have to scale down her head and up her hands and feet before I do anything else annoys the bejeebas out of me. I don't care that I would only have to do it once and then save her back to the library; that's not the point. She should have been made right the first time. And then, when I do get down to morphing her into a unique character, the simple fact is that I'm limited by the base mesh. It's the foundation of the work; I wouldn't build a house on a pile of loose gravel, after all. The better the figure looks going in, the better she'll look coming out. That said, her head is still too big for her body, her hands are still too small, and her breasts seem to have a strange and unnatural shape, although that might be an optical illusion at that angle with that map. When I finally do get Poser 5 (probably around the time 6 is coming out and we go through all this again), Judy here very well might be enough to make me switch completely to Vicki, although I'll probably just stick with the old Posette. And that's my two pennies.

To me the hands look right. Not every one has big hands. The head is slightly out of proportions with the body. The breasts look ok to me. And the neck, finally seems to be realistic. Not flaming. To each hisher own. Can't wait to get my grubby little hands on her. Rob: Long Don outch... Long Don Quixote, signing off... Q

oops sorry q, how are you anyway? Rob

I'm sucking along on crutches most of the time. I'll start walking soon. Nerve damage but not to the spinal cord. No golf but I suck at that too, a blessing in disguise? Hey! that's life.... Thanks for asking, Rob. Poser 5's release would really...really help... this ugly mood of mine. Hey! FyreSpiryt, sorry if my comment offended. Just a bad week OK? No disrespect meant. Stay well, Q

at least you're still with us :) that's a blessing if ever there was one. Rob

Ha!- Her head is not too big, you guys are all too used to stock Vickie, who head is actually too small. She is almost a perfectly probortioned 7 1/2 heads-high figure, except her shins are a tad short, she only makes about 7 3/8s! Looks like a great improvent over the Posette, who I haven't used in years. On the other hand, I don't think Vicki II, SMV, Hi-Fashion Vickie and Pin-up stephanie have anything to worry about, as it doesn't seem like her neck and shoulders work all that well, and I still see a trace of them weird thigh-bumps the Posette has... However, I think if she was too good she would be viewed as an attempt by Curious Labs to kill-off DAZ, as I think DAZ still makes a lot of it's money from Vickie and her dirivatives and clothing. This way everybody wins, Poser 5 users get a good basic figure, plus still room for DAZ (and guys like me!) Now, about Supermodel Morph Jane... ;-)

On more measurements, she is almost a perfect 8 heads high figure, with very short shins, but she is perfect for the first 6 heads, though. You guys and gals who never took a figure drawing class probably have no idea what I'm talking about... ;-)

Right on, Jim. ;)

No offense taken, Quixote. I'm glad to hear there wasn't damage to the spinal cord. Here's hoping for a good recovery.

FyreSpiryt: Thanks. I'm working hard at it. I'll never take walking for granted again. Jim: I still think the head is ever so slightly out of proportion. But it could be the angle or the focal settings. It's no big deal and I'm anxious to work with her. Rob: love you too.

My first (subjective) impressions... - Yep, shins look a bit short. - I'm holding judgment on her head-size. - I like the abdomen/belly treatment. - not crazy about the shoulders (though I can't pin-point my objection. - hands do look a bit small, but then Vicki's are too large, so I'm holding judgment on that too. - I like the 'thigh-bumps' - can't really comment on the breasts until I've seen more of them (I'm guessing that won't be a problem ;). ...what I want to know is: - does she have seperate, transmappable eyebrows? - seperate, transmappable pubic hair? - additional leg and upper torso grouping ala Vicki/Eve? - Apparently she'll have Vicki-like UV mapping, but who's existing clothing fits her (if any) ? - I'd love to see a list of full body morphs and head/face morphs. - etc. ...time will tell. Keith

Personally, I don't see how it's possible to complain about "not realistic enough", "hands too small" and "head too big" in the same post. The first negates that latter two, because real people are proportioned all different ways. Judy's head may look big, be she's got nothing on Debbie Harry. -Adam

We can fix shortcomings in the proportions with morphs and scaling. I still think the real question about the new figures should be, how well do the joints bend? Please post some serious elbow and knee positions! :) Eagerly awaiting P5!

Agree with Cage, how well do the joints work?

She looks great. Lots to play with. Rounder and less "boxy" than Vicki; very sexy.

Well, what do I know, but yet I post. Ugh. I just read all the posts above and am remembering all the people who were worried that P5 might put them out of business. I think Jim was one...but my memory is like a faulty Poser dial sometimes...hehe. So in that vein, and knowing what has been said above... I haven't seen anything in those P5 renders that the current 3rd party vendors (DAZ, et al) haven't been able to beat. Forget proportions. Just look at the hair. The pros who paint it on CERTAINLY will not rely on P5 for hair. And the people who sell damn good hair have no fears. Texture? Who knows. The CL site doesn't mention resolution and from the "faraway" renders I saw, I see no reason for people who make hi-res textures to worry, either. I'm gonna side with Fyre (bet she hates to hear that...hehe). I'm a bit underwhelmed. Of course, that part of me who understands (or THINKS they understand) the business world realizes that CL must have left some room for DAZ (and others) to co-exist.