Hi all,

Ancient user of Vue 3, i've finaly decided to upgrade to Vue 4 and to be back in the business ;-)

I've just received my upgrade today, have patched it to 4.11 and there, what a surprise : i've seen that this new Vue has full Open GL support for the display, but it's almost as slow as the software display support of the Vue 3 version !!!
I mean, for example, that if another windows came on top of Vue4, then it have to refresh its display and recalculate everything. But loading of scene i've already made in Vue3 is very slow too :-(((

So, am i stupid or what ? Did i made something wrong ? Any good advice from the guru's ??
My machine : Athlon 1600 +/ 512MoRAM / GeForce 4 ti4400 with Nvidia 41.09 drivers on W2K.

Thanx a lot in advance !

To make refreshment faster, go to FILE-->OPTIONS and put the 3D view display quality slider(s) less high:-). This should help:-) Guitta

Well, for me........I didn't update to 4.11.........I have learned from "Reading" this forum.........that you should NEVER, Upgrade, until someone else does and shares their experience! (: I bought Vue4 when it first came out, actually, I bought it prior to it's actual release date, and had a number of problems with it. Since then, with the patches, I am totally satisfied with it's performance..............but, what I have learned most of all is:...............IF it ain't Broke, DON'T Fix it! I won't update because, I am happy with what Vue4 does for now.............I don't want to risk it acting "crazy" again. (: Believe me, it did act crazy at one time..............almost enough to make me crazy too! LOL! Genny

You are wrong Genny. Many features only works in Vue 4.11. And our support here is for Vue 4.11 too:-). You are free to not update, but don't tell stories please. Vue 4.11 works great for most of us, only few users have a problem(especially with Mac). Guitta

OK, Guitta, I am really sorry that you think I am telling "stories"? I am simply stating my experience, and IT is NOT a story.........IT IS FACT! I have had, more than one head-ache with VUE4, and because I WORK 6 days a week, have 2 problem children who live in my home, I don't have the time to Post here or any where else for the matter when-ever things go wrong with my software.............WELLLLLLL..........it doesn't mean I am telling Stories! I really resent that you said that.......and perhaps, I am wrong in what I stated about 4.11, as I don't know as I haven't installed it........but how could you say that? I am using Windows, always have, so it doesn't have anything to do with Mac? I didn't say there was anything wrong with the newest update.........I simply said..........IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT! Genny

If you explain properly what's wrong with your copy, we could find a solution for you. (BTW I'm working mostly 7 days a week, about 10 to 12 hours, even on sundays and evenings and sometimes even nights:-)...) :-)Guitta

Let's stay on the carpet. The update from Vue 3 to Vue 4 is a major improvement. So there is no way around that. And someone makes that step, it is more than obvious to make the step to the actual version too. Why should he deal with old problems if he can have new ones? JOKE, GUITTA!!! I am normally a Mac user and does have some problems with 4.11. But e-on promised an update for that soon. At the moment (being on holiday at home) i am using the windows version. No problem at all (exept the ones i am causing by myself!). I think mostly the problems with a software on a machine does have to do with very specific settings - not with the software itsself. Real bugs are very rare. And i am nearly "happy" when i really bump into one. So i normally ask first wether it could be, that someone else does have similar experiences before talking about bugs. But as Guitta said, lets find what the problem is with your copy. :-)) Walther

Guitta, I didn't say there was anything wrong with my copy? Yes, perhaps you work all those hours, but I just mentioned the hours that I am actually at work because I don't and can't come here everyday to see what's up! Maybe your job enables you to have access to the internet, MINE DOES'NT! I can't know or keep up like you, I was only stating my experience.........I am sorry, that you think I am telling "STORIES"! I just hope that no-one else does, who may read this.......as.........I did have a lot of problems with VUE4, and it is NOT a story........no matter what you say. (: Sorry that I Disagree. Genny

Also, I want to mention, I didn't know anything about VUE prior to my experience with Poser. I never had Vue anything, started with version 4, and don't regret one penny that I spent on it. (: But, I DID, experience a lot of problems with the program, prior to the patches.........and like I said before, I won't update to 4.11........only because I am satisfied with the performance of Vue right now. I am not, or ever told "stories" about Vue4, and if you want to know what really happened when it first came out..............maybe, if it is still available, go to the achives of this forum.............then...............you can decide for yourself. (: Genny

Thanks Guitta ! You're right : i slightly decrease the 3D quality; and it goes much better ! Do you need a 3Dlabs high end Oxygen video Card to have 3D set to the max ??? Nethertheless i'm happy of the improvement i'm already seen with the new sample scene and i'm already longing to create my new picture with Vue 4 :-))

Pete, I have only a poor old video card Nvidia TNT2, 64 on a AMD 1 Giga machine with 512 RAM. For me it works all fine. When scenes becomes too big and Vue 4.11 slows down, there are lots of other "tricks" to use: - Group objects wherever you can - Hide all the objects you don't need absolutely to see while working on a scene. This is a new feature in Vue 4. Right-click the object (or layer) name in the world browser and choose HIDE. It will be hidden in all the windows as soon as you click somewhere. But, of course, they are always there when you render:-) - disable OpenGl if necessary... When working with heavy imported objects, I sometimes push the display to its maximum, this avoids to see 3Ds or Poser objects only as a mixture of small red spots. But as soon as I can, I go back and "down" again the display. Have fun:-) You will like it. :-)Guitta

Well personaly I gave up on Open Gl. I don't understand why Vue put that feature in. It will bring the most powerfull computer to it's knees. They should have just had shading as a option to. Look at LeoCad you can actually see what your doing that's what you need simple display not to hard on the poccessor. Of all the software out there that has some sort of filled object view Vue's is really the worst of the bunch. Even with wire frame tough, be aware huge meshes will give you problems. Group and hide on layers stuff that's done. I thought open gl would be usefull for lining up stuff but it's pointless cause you can't turn it on and off you have to quit Vue so there is no advantage. We should have just had solid shading it would have worked just fine. Open GL is made for low poly fast rendering. Hello what are we doing with Vue? It's years away from working well I'm afraid. We need 10 gig machines. If you go nuts the computer will crash so that's eather Vue or the card or Windozs but the effect is the same. There is things though that you can do to make it work fairly well and that's turn off preview and turn down quality. Keep a layer handy hidden and drag things into it as they're completed. I'm with Jenny I also don't jump on the update path. I wait till I know what I'm getting into. The only glitch in Vue 4.11 that I know of doesn't effect me so far it's been just fine. There is wierdness though. Saving images on the screen with the process complete window missing can be interesting. Saving no problem but forget getting rid of the window with the art. You can't till you click on a object name. Oh you cannot select a object if the side window is not over to the left all the way or move a object postion on the tree for that matter. It insistes you want to rename the object instead. Those are old bugs probibly though. Program generally works well and is way more powerfull than Vue 3. I think Vue 5 will be out before all the bugs are out of vue 4. Not many left though.

Hou hou! I don't have all these problems:-)

I can give you them, I can send you my city mesh scene or that church mesh I just made. Like it works but my files are bigger than most peoples I guess. Thing is you even have problems just using wire frame too so you have to plan well to work on 1/2 gig scene files. Thing is it can be done though and that's amazing to me. I've made way more complex stuff up in Vue thab any other program I use and it works. blow me away. Its got power for sure. No other program I own would be able to work on 1/2 gig scene files and 250 meg meshes.

I cannot load very huge files into any of my programs. But that's not Vue's fault, it's just a power lack of my machine. I wish nobody complains about Vue if they ask Vue to do "things of their dreams". Vue, as any soft, has its limit. I cannot load extremely huge files in Poser, nor in Zbrush, Carrara, Corel Dream... Why not just create REALLY nice images with all these limits? It's the artist's feeling that counts. Create smaller files or get a stronger machine:-). I would love too, but don't have the money for it:-)

Thing is to me is that Vue can actually do it. That church I did I can't open in any program but LegoCad and Vue. Everything else crashes. I'm just trying to tell him without proper planning he will have problems. I bought it to render my dreams and it does just that. Ya that's the thing it's the computer not Vue that's the problem. Windoz... Glass, it breaks as easy as egg shells. This rendering window glitch and the left tree glitch is windows probibly or my video card. With the summery info behind Vue on the desktop ( hitting the spacebar) accidentally usually when it's rendering. That graphic window no longer has a name so Windoz don't even know it's open to close it.

Hi there, regarding the original question: Vue4's OpenGL viewports are recognised to be among the slowest in the industry (at least among the several dozen people of the industry I regularly talk with ;) ), especially on NVIDIA video boards. For most people, the standard, non-OpenGL viewports will work a lot faster and with less artefacting. I am with Pete on that one--I simply don't see the point. The shading makes more complex scenes almost impossible to navigate in, and well, it's slower than the software mode, something I have yet to behold even with freeware render and modeling applications. But as you can simply turn it off, it's not too much of a problem. ta, -Sascha.rb

MightyPete said: "Well personaly I gave up on Open Gl. I don't understand why Vue put that feature in. It will bring the most powerfull computer to it's knees." Well, I half disagree with you there Pete. If it is intergrated thoughtfully (as in Cinema 4D), then it is without question the only way to go. I'm not sure about Vue's use of OpenGL, but it does not seem right...too many problems. Saying that, Vue 4 is the first version that makes use of it, and I'm sure E-on will get it right in the end. Cheers

Ya for sure I don't understand why Vue went with Open gl. Check out this working screen dump from the lego program. It took 1 second to draw. Notice how everything is the proper color? Notice the windows work? This is the kind of feature we needed in Vue. This mesh is 250 megs in Vue. There is no way you would be able to view it open gl and even wire frame you have to turn the detail way down cause it's transparent. So vue has lots of lines to update just to draw it. Like vues open gl has got like what 8 colors max. What's up with that? If Vue had a desktop view like this I'd be extreamly happy. Everyone would be and nobody would use open gl. Oh this has also been compresses jpg and the original picture was 1600 X 1200 and it still only took a second to update the screen whaen I moved the mesh. This is the state of the art right now with our present operating systems and computers. This kinda view works and leave open gl to the game guys where everything is shrunk down to almost nothing. Z brush have even got there desktop working even better but even this simple view is way better than vues open gl and wire frame. If e-on implimented such a view option, Bryce would be left in the dust.

I don't think Vue 4 is slow at all - I've been working in Poser 5 a lot recently (a really great program - I'm not trying to knock it here), and today worked in Vue. Although tracking and refresh rates became a little slow,it renders so quickly even when over a million polys. What a nice change. I love Poser, but speed is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of moving around or rendering in it, particularly when the poly count gets high! If you want to appreciate Vue more spend a little time in Poser. Hope Vue 5 can import Poser 5 hair, then I'll be really happy!

Ya I hear ya. Thing is if you get really complex things in vue it crawls even in wire frame mode. Actually I very rarly have that problem becuase I keep things on hidden layers. Thing is it's hard to build meshes up when you can see right threw them and the open gl has so many minuses for me that I still use wire frame mode. Like I'm pretty sure Bryce could not open this mesh though I never tried. I found most programs cannot open this file. It's just too complex. A million polys in Vue is just barly scratching the surface and that is to it's credit for sure. That chandelere that Alexssander did shows the power of Vue. Put's almost all programs to shame really. Now if we can just get that desktop working area fixed.

Pete, try this; Create an object and save it as a 3DS, LWO, OBJ or C4D file. Now open up the object in vue and re-save it as a VOB file. Compare the file sizes between all the file formats...and you will see why Vue slows to a crawl when you work with imported objects ;o) Cheers

I already know that. This mesh here is a prime example. It's only 176 kb in the original and 250 megs in Vue. Now that nothing, some of the pieces I converted to other formats to try to chop the polys are extreme. Vue's is small. one piece dxf format from obj 4 megs to dxf grew to 89 meg. Like I don't understand where the file size is coming from. Obj saved as object does the same thing though it grows to huge sizes. Thing is at least vue can open the file most programs I got here can't even open the pieces. The object file cheats in a way anyway they make a part then just keep placing it till they are all there. It's a good system really. Vue needs a system to save meshes in a more simple format. There is no reason this file should grow so big. It's just a text file. It's not mapped even when saved from vue. They is no reason why it should be that big. This is not a good mesh though to use cause it's just to many parts. If I could find a program to merge the parts you could probibly get it down to a 100 or so k. Primitives are the best for sure they're simple. What I'm talking about though is the actuall open gl part of vue. It has no use for me. There could have been simpilar, easier, faster, viewing options then going to open gl. Is there any program out there that managed to get open gl to work well? If Z Brush uses it they got figured out but they cheat in a way and it's different kind of program so they have a advantage of a 2d workspace under the 3d one so it's really fast. Only one thing at a time is in 3d other wise it's drawn on the 2d screen part till you select it agian. Thing is though just solid drawing would be better than open gl as it's working in Vue right now. I realize though it works just fine if you keep it simple. Solid drawing would work well both ways. Even tough using Vue primitives if you go crazy Open gl will die there too. Like it just takes forever to update. I'm just saying I'd rather have had solid drawing then open gl. Give me any computer, any program and I can kill it, that's not a problem.

Well, in my experience, I have found Cinema 4D, Nendo, Xfrog, ProENGINEER and SolidWorks to work very well with OpenGL. 3DS Max I usually run under Heidi at work, as Max's OpenGL implementation is about as bad as Vue's IMHO LOL! Cheers