Now I'm spitting mad! I've just bought the downloadable version of Mover 4 from E-on and only after making the purchase and downloading the zip do I get a message on their web page: Note: You will be receiving your Mover 4 Serial Number by e-mail within the next 5 business days. Please wait until you receive this Serial Number before installing Mover 4. I thought the whole point of a downloadable product is so that you don't have to wait for it to be delivered to be able to use the software! I've been waiting for ages to buy this and start playing with it, and I'm very upset. Anybody else who bought the download version get the same thing or is this a new one? Angela

lo yer me too lol i lost my downloadid version of mover when hd crashed and i never burnt to cd. i asked for a replacment over 2 weeks ago and have still hears nothing dolly

Angela, I'm sorry you have to wait (I did not know that, otherwise I would have informed you). But as you were waiting for ages to buy it, please just wait few more days. You will be happy when you get it. Dolly, did you write to the right address? Please tell me where you wrote by IM. I'm wondering you stay for 2 weeks without an answer from e-onsoftware. And to both: When somebody downloads a software, he (she) should burn it immediately:-). :-)Guitta

lo mate yes i know i should have but you know how it is easy to forget lol well for me it is i went to the proper site and the right place for it to be posted so i geuss there either busy or something dolly

OK, you seam sure, but I'm not sure it was the right place. See my IM. Guitta

Heh. Same here, and I got the mailed purchase version. It came with a 'pre-install' code. They do it as their answer to the warez community. Your actual Mover number will be generated (I am guessing here) based on a combination of your registered Vue number, and the pre install code. And I think that 5 day is just a cma number; I had mine in 2 business days, saved the email, and have been happily Movering things since (and it also links a specific copy of Vue to a specific copy of Mover in their customer database, so if anyone does anything naughty, they know who to ask first). E-on has actually been pretty clever about it; there have been a couple of versions of Vue ripped, and none of them have been really functional, as they crash if you do just about anything other than stare at the pretty white screen. Something about the on-the-CD installer does a finalization of Vue so it works properly.

Well I've just recived my serial number so that was pretty quick. Apparently from what I read on E-on's support area you only have the pre-install code when you buy from other places. I do understand about having to protect their product from the thieves however it should clearly state BEFORE you purchase that you have to wait for up to 5 days for your serial number, that would stop pooing people off. I had some very bad news over the weekend, and then last night I found out that my 15 year old is smoking, so really just wanted to take my mind off things, and there's nothing better for that than the old "banging head on the monitor" part of learning new software lol. Sorry if I came across as uptight I was just a bit emotional this morning, Angela (off to do some vueing)

E-on seems to be hard to get hold of, no direct phone number, no E-mail address for questions the do not fall into their special catagories. I think I saw a notice that " if it doesn't apply to the catagory, it won't be answered", and there is no presales catagory. I wanted to purchase Vue 4, and had a few presales questions about Vue4 upgrade from Bryce, Vegation, Mover, Vue 5 release, etc.. I looked at FAQ. I called their sales phone number, and they couldn't answer any questions, couldn't take an Bryce upgrade order, couldn't contact E-on. I'm a little leary about a company you can't contact directly. From what I see here, they are a little slow on feed back to the customer. The lack of response worries me, if they take so long to reply, what happens if have a serious problem (like not having a back-up when your system crashes), but it could have been another problem, (two weeks is a long time). It is a shame, because it looks like a great program, the examples I've seen look fantastic. I want to buy it but I'm starting to have second thoughts. If it didn't seem like a great program, I would have written it off right away.

Phily, normally we are able to answer all presale questions here in the forum. E-onsoftware is one of the very rare companies who really worry about the customer. They have always listened to us for what we wish and listened to our Vue problems. You should consider that you are not the only one who writes to them and it sometimes needs some days to get an answer. Have you ever tried to get an answer from Corel or from Curiouslabs? They nearly never answers to a request. Now, just ask here what you want to know about Vue/Bryce to Vue/vegetations/Mover4. If ever we are not able to answer to you, I will redirect you to e-onsoftware. :-) Guitta

You can contact us directly -- If you have a pre-sales question, there are ways to contact us by email (see below). Also, there is a very knowledgeable user community right here that can answer your most pragmatic of questions. We also watch this community fairly closely. Ill try to answer a few questions above: The five day warning on downloads. Typically once your credit card is authorized, your download order is almost immediately authorized and you get an email with a download URL at that instant. We have a five day warning because we cannot automate authorization entirely. Three process reasons for this, and one logistical reason. Varying security measures on credit cards result in automatic denial of processing from customers credit card issuers. We get this maybe 1 in 40 orders. Our processing occurs through our home office in Europe. If you have tight security on your card (which most often the CC companies never tell you about), they will deny the order. We cannot predict that this will happen or not -- its your CC company's choice. The second reason -- we've been burned by fraudulent orders too many times so a human takes a look at every order. The third reason -- we have tighter privacy controls than a lot of companies, so complete automation is out of the question. CC processors measures are getting better, but they arent great and we want to make sure that your private data is protected. The logistical reason is simple -- five days should cover holidays + weekends + any of the above. Download backups. In order to get another download, we need to set it up for you. There is an email address at the end of most Knowledge Base searches. Did you find it? If you didn't take a look and send us a message with your original order details so we can set up an alternative download. This is the reason why I always recommend ordering the disk, or better yet, the full bundle. The full bundle (Vue 4 + Mover 4) has everything already in the box -- the serial numbers are already "pre-mated" to each other so you can get working with Mover 4 immediately. I know it stinks to have to redownload a huge file. When I buy big software downloads online, I always burn it to a CDR, but if there is a disk option available, I go ahead and buy that instead. Sure, it costs $10 more + shipping. But it saves a lot of heartache later. Direct Contact. We are looking into alternatives for support that is even more responsive that the current offerings. In fact, we just expanded our support staff for this very reason. The reason why we do not offer (currently) phone technical support is that we would have to charge you for it. The knowledge base is free, and email support is currently free. But we would have to charge you for phone technical support. Now and then people call on our reseller line for support. If you leave a name, problem and email address, then our staff forwards it to technical support for following up by email. Its not their job to do this, but they do it anyway. Leaving less than this, and we cannot help you since tech support is only by way of email. Angela's 15 year old smoking. Angela, take your 15 year old to visit a cronic smoker at home. Let your 15 year old take a good smell in their closet and look at their lampshades from smoking grime. Let your 15 year old be kissed on the face by a cronic smoker, someone with really nasty yellowed teeth and really bad breath. Introduce your 15 year old to a smoker who is dying of lung cancer or related problem. Let your 15 year old see them cough up and choke on gobs of phelm. Let your 15 year old know that if she/he wants to be an organ donor, that by the time they are probably ready to donate, smoking will have destroyed any usability of body parts to help someone else. Let your 15 year old see just how ugly and short it can make life. Smoking not only kills, it makes you ugly and your life short and ugly. My mom died at 68 because she smoked for years and couldnt kick the habit. It was an ugly and painful way to die. I dont smoke. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

Ahhhh...e-on support...smoking awareness and tech support allll wrapped into one...

Hey Lynn, how goes it? Glad to see this was cleared up here. My Dad died of a heart attack (if not, his emphysema would have got him) in December, after 40-some years of smoking 3 packs a day. He had tried quitting every now and then for as long as I can remember. When I was a kid, I remember the house and him constantly stinking of cigarette smoke, and vowed I would never take up the nasty habit. But somehow, for some stupid reason I did anyway, for a couple years. However, I managed to successfully quit, thank God, and will never go back. Alla, do what Lynn suggests..for that matter do whatever it takes to get your 15-year old to give up the cigarettes before the addiction sets in. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice everyone. He's seen my Grandad die a painful slow death from lung cancer and the state that my Mother is in through smoking, she coughs up her lungs constanly and has very bad asthema but can't stop, my fiancee smokes roll ups and has constant stains on his fingers - not nice at all :( Both os my parents are heavy somokers and when I was 3 my dad cought me picking up tab ends and puffing on them so he lit a full ciggarette and forced me to smoke it, I can't remember it, but according to my mum I went green and was very sick, to this day if I inhale smoke that someone has just puffed out I puke my guts up, to late to try this with my son though. He has been staying over at his dads on and off since Christmas and has been smoking since then, he is pig headed and stubborn (don't know where he gets that from lol) so I doubt that anything will make him stop:( He's also hoping to get into the army in a years time and it is time that he was starting running to get fitter, I've tried to get through to him how smoking will afect his lung capacity but it's like talking to thin air, oh well let's see how he manages with no pocket money! Angela PS Mover rocks! Now I'm going to have to learn how to animate my poser figures properly!

Attached Link: http://www.creativemac.com/2003/02_feb/reviews/vue4030211.htm

Hey Mike and Angela, That's about how my mom got it as well. Heart problems brought on by the smoking. I know it was her choice to smoke like that. Its hard to cure a boy of being 15, but Angela, how can he get into the army when he is 16? I think you have to be 18, and be a high school graduate. But since boys at 15 rarely understand their own mortality, I can appreciate you situation. Maybe you need to find an attractive girl to tell him that many girls won't kiss a mouth that tastes like a chimney. Mike, yeah Ive been doing okay, just been keeping very busy with getting Vue, Mover and Ozone out there. We bagged a pretty good review on DMN/CreativeMac in February. Also, I dont know if anyone noticed it or not, but Curious Labs and e-on are both offering Vue 4/Poser 4 bundles. So Ive been keeping busy :-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

Attached Link: http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/training/afc.htm

Hi Lynn, Here in the UK it's 16 and 9 months, although there is an army college at Harrogate which takes school leavers and they do their further education at the same time as army training, and they are guaranteed a place in the army and fast tracked through promotion if they complete the course, which is where I'm hoping he'll go as it'll get him away from the bad influence of his step brother *and* at least get him some civillian qualifications. I don't think the girlfriend thing will work - he's a very good looking tall blonde and very muscular for his age - we have girls at the door and on the phone all hours, his younger sister is getting fed up of older girls befriending her so they can get to him lol - when he told me that he had started smoking, he said "there's something I need to tell you mum, I'm scared what you are going to say...." it was almost a relief when he said that he was smoking! Angela

Attached Link: http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:ZvE_R8e96TAC:docs.ali.gov.uk/press-releases/RegionalALIrelease

I've just found this link whilst looking up more information, interesting reading for parents. Angela

I, for one, would pay for phone technical support. I think you should at LEAST make it an OPTION in the very near future.

I don't really want to pay for it, but email tech support is slow, CUMBERSOME, frustrating, and not practical for a host of situations.

I believe their should be some complimentary support at first, like with most companies. The software is not inexpensive ... and it is a bit suprising phone support is not offered AT ALL, unlike most other companies.

-Tim

Hi Tim, We are looking into some alternatives, phone, chat, enhanced email and more. Last year, we expanded tech support with our knowledgebase. Chances are, if one person had a problem, someone else will also have the same problem. Capturing this in the knowledgebase makes these same answers accessible to those who follow -- these answers are available immediately. This support, and email support, are free, but they arent immediate. Microsoft has a very similar sort of set up. We recognize some people need immediate support, especially professional users who are charging their customers on the clock. When we implement phone support, we want to make sure its right the first time and isnt a big loss proposition (because then we'd just have to terminate it). This is something that we are working out now. I can guarantee though, that telephone tech support will not be free. Here's why. The cost to a vendor for technical support even in the best of circumstances, can be well above $25 a call. On a $199 product, that's significant. We dont make $199 on each sale, even if the sale is direct. We make whatever is left over after expenses are paid, advertising, margins to resellers, business overhead, taxes and the very expensive R&D. We also donate a little of each sale to help Oregon schools that sign up for our OregonGrowth program. We are currently looking to expand our support options to fulfill the needs of customers who really require more options for them to successfully use our products. This is a priority for us. These will not be implemented tommorrow, but they are coming. As to comparisons to other companies, sure, a lot offer phone support, and they cover their costs one way or the other. But I think we measure up in other ways and where we are lacking, we will come up with solutions. That's one of the reasons why we frequent communities like Renderosity, so we are up on what our users want. Smart companies do that. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

Lynn:

Thanks for your rapid, and detailed, response ... it is much appreciated. As you said, different companies have different models on which they operate their business.

I'm sure you have very solid reasons for not including phone support, however access to a live person (with or without a fee) is very important to me -- and I'm sure many others -- when making a software purchase ... especially when it involves software as complicated as a 3D app. I did not know this was not the case when I purchased Vue. I had just assumed I could call someone if I had a problem. In fact, not being able to do so is extremely UNcommon. Had I known this were the case it very well may have caused me to not purchase Vue. (Must say, so far, I'm glad I did!)

Your company does appear to have many positive attributes (ordering was very pleasant, for example) and I assure you I WANT E-on to succeed. However, a reliance on email-only support is, IMHO, damaging in ways beyond not getting people the level of support they need -- it projects an unprofessional image. Perhaps raising the price a small amount could considerably offset the costs of improved tech support?

In any case, I'm glad you are looking into enhancing support options in the near future : "...support options to fulfill the needs of customers who really require more options for them to successfully use our products." That's great, and I for one call tech support typically only after exhausting knowledge bases and forumns like these for an answer. But, as you said, there are those times when a user needs an immediate answer ... your current options will not support this situation at all. SO again, I'm am extremely happy you are addressing the matter. Best of luck!

Warm Regards,
Tim

I notice in your history of Vue that you put out a new version of Vue every year and a half to two years and this year a new version is due. What I donot want to do is purchase Vue 4 for $199.00 and find that Vue 5 is coming out a month or two and I have to purchase an upgrade for another $129.00. I don't have the extra money to wind up paying $330.00 for a $200.00 program, plus the upgrade. If waiting will save me money, that is what I want to do. Just a direct question, are you releasing Vue 5 between now and June of this year (2003)?

Lynn, I have a question too. I live in Portland, Oregon about 10-15 min away from the Beaverton area unless it's rush hour on 26. I've considerred buying Vue for quite some time now but one of the things that gets me is the shipping charge. It just doesn't make sense to pay a shipping charge and wait for the mail when I could be picking it up and playing with it as soon as I pay for it. Ron

Howdy all, Ill try to collectively answer all questions. Tim: New support options are coming. Actually, Im spending a couple of hours every day working on this very problem -- that's why I could go into detail about what we are doing. Since everyone at e-on is also a product user (even I try to dabble when I can!), we also understand the need to be able to contact someone. What I want to avoid is putting out a new option which is a loser for either us or customers. PhilyWebRider: We don't upgrade every year, but historically you are right, 1.5-2 years is our normal cycle. I cannot comment about unreleased products, however, let me say this -- we try to announce a forthcoming product at least a month before its released, sometimes more. For example, we have already discussed that we are working on Ozone 2 for Cinema 4D, and its been over a month since that announcement came out. Typically when we make a release of a new version, there is a shadow period in which if you bought the current version new, you'll get a cheap upgrade to the latest version. We have to at least recoup our production costs, shipping and the like on these. We did that for folks who bought Vue 3 right before Vue 4 came out. If you buy Vue 4 now, you won't be regreting it next month. Ron: Unfortunately, our office isnt open for customer visits or cash payment -- we dont have a cash register, and its pretty "office like" -- we have secret stuff out and our logistics people often walk around in unbusiness-like disarray, with donut and coffee decorations on their clothing ;-) I have a couple of recommendations though to save on shipping. Check out exactly what information we need to process your order on our website, then email me this information directly. If you pay by CC, Ill need that prior to fulfillment. If you are paying by check, let me know by email as well. Sometimes we meet local customers over at Washington Square 2 at Barnes & Noble (its about 5-10 minutes away, depending on traffic) during lunchtime to complete the sale. I can have someone do that, or I can just do it myself. If you are paying by check, we can collect it on the spot. Email me directly at lfredricks@e-onsoftware.com and we can try to work something out. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks e-on software

FWIW, as a hobbyist, personally I prefer to not pay extra for phone support since I typically don't require or use phone support. If phone support is added, I would hope that the cost of it will be covered by fees on those who use it.

I am happy with e-mail tech support, given the affordable cost of the software. Thank you, e-on!

--Keith