Hey, you people might want to post your technical questions in this forum, and I can understand why you'd want to as there are only like 15 people who ever use the Poser Technical forum, but it's getting a bit out of hand. There's a forum SPECIFICALLY FOR Poser Technical questions and answers. It's called 'Poser Technical'. And if you're having problems with your video card, there's a forum specifically for Hardware/Technical isues, too. So go ask those questions there. And if you're having problems with DAZ, well, there's a place specifically FOR that, too, called DAZ technical support complete with an 800 number.

Why did I just post that? I and several other merchant have recently been on the pointy end of the segregation schtick because we wanted to show off your works in progress and because those works in progress were intended to be sold at some point we were told that we can't post them in this forum by innumerable people. Fair is fair. There's a forum specifically for Poser Technical questions, and I think that if I should be expected to put a poser creation work in progress in the Product Showcase forum simply because I intend to sell it eventually, then everyone who needs help getting reflections to work or getting P4 transmaps to work in P5 or asking the same bloody querstion about not being able to get to their window becaus somehow they put it two stories up above their screen so they need to reset to factory defaults shold be forced into the Poser Technical forum too. After all, that's what it's there for, and I don't want to see my Poser forum getting littered up with people's technical questions.

Hey..don't take out your anger on new users, Dodger. Having your document window go missing is NOT really technical. TECHNICAL is how to hack a CR2.

And showing off a work in progress is not advertising, even if it's going to be for sale. It's certainly less advertising than technical support is technical. That's why they call it technical support. Anyway, I'm not angry. If I were angry I wouldn't think of the comparison, I'd be too flustered. But I do want to see fairness.

Err you two want to take this to the OT forum??

someone needs to cut back on their caffine :)

If it's any consolation, it looks like some people are still posting product info here. Besides, newbies (and others) might be intimidated by "Poser technical"; they might worry that their questions are too trivial for the real technical experts.

I'm confident the mods can handle if a posting is too technical and should be moved. I agree with Spit, technical is asking how to do geometry switching or probably how to's on jcm.

I third Spit and Netherworks. Technical is for, well, techn ical stuff. Not jus toperating the knobs, dials, and controls of the product. I've never noticed a "help me!" post aside from "help me I'm a pirate without Poser documentation/serial number/hind brain" in the Poser forum (that I recall) that riled. However, there HAVE been numerous apparent "look, it's not advertising OK? I just wanted to draw people's attention to this wonderful item that'll be for sale soon is all, so I can make a buck. Not advertising at all, no-no - asking for feedback, WIP images, perficly legit yer honors" type posts.

I'm confident the mods can handle if a posting is too technical and should be moved. I'm afraid you're being rather naive if you think that would ever happen. But as I said, if that's not technical, posting my WIPs is not advertising. Whether I'm going to sell the end result or not. there HAVE been numerous apparent "look, it's not advertising OK? I just wanted to draw people's attention to this wonderful item that'll be for sale soon is all, so I can make a buck. Not advertising at all, no-no - asking for feedback, WIP images, perficly legit yer honors" That is exactly the sort of prejudice and segregative/discriminative activity that I'm talking about. Just because it's going to be sold does not mean that showing off a work in progress is any diffeent than if you're going to give it away or give it to your wife.

I agree somewhat with Dodger on the advertising. I do not sell products either. Before buying a product it would be nice to see some renders of what can be done with it etc.. What I would not like to see is, here is a simple render of the item(s) I am working on and they will be in the marketplace today for XXXXX. I am pretty new to poser and I assumed that the technical forum was for problems with the product itself i.e how do you adjust the lighting etc.. but not for items like what is the best format to save my renders?

sabretalon: As dodger has pointed out, there is indeed a product showcase to show what goods are like. There are also publicity images in the marketplace. dodger: I don't know (truly) whether you're being deliberately provocative in your response to me or whether you really consider me prejudiced. A term (along with the others that followed) which I do not take kindly to. There IS a case for some posts which display images of things which later become saleable products. But it's equally true that there are underhand "I think I can get away with this" adverts. Take for example a post which gives a DAZ-like spiel, JUST like the advertising blurb spinning a tale of "far-off barbarian toadstools battling against evil treee-frog overlords" (mad eup scenario) to accompany some images of a few textured fungi "for sale at a store near you soon!". Just like DAZ's posts of Victoria3, and DAZ Studio, and so on and so forth such posts are DESIGNED to drum up interest in the product. That makes them advertising in my book. To take a FAR extreme, how about someone posting a "I'm gonna do some hybrid P5 characters for freebies - which characters would you like to see Don and Judy's faces on?" has come across to me quite differently. We've even had some borderline cased - where, IIRC, DAZ bodies (or brokers) have posted WIP images which lie partway between the two extremes. I'd have to say that it'd be easier to judge on a case-by-case basis when someone was trying to "sneak one past" and when they were genuinely trying to make sure that the product they're working on is going to feature what most people want (there isn't a "free product development poll" forum so this usually tends to be the place to come, on Renderosity anyway). I would appreciate it if you didn't call me prejudiced, segregative or discriminative in trhe future without evidence that such prejudical labels actually apply. Yes I've got the hump, Cliff Bowman

who3d, if you start to take it to the letter then you can not have people post any WIP because they may be promoting their or others items in their render. This would therefore be advertising. What about them posting links to their galleries to show off their work? Yes there is the product showcase and I only go there when looking for something in particular.

sabretalon:- you take "There IS a case for some posts which display images of things which later become saleable products" (and indeed much of the rest of the post where I suggest cases where posts don't appear to be blatant advertising) as "taking it to the letter"? As I see it we can go one of two ways with a moratorium on "commercial advertising". We can either go "to the letter" (which seems MOST unlikely) or we can allow some room for interpretation on posting images of "our own" commercial images (and it's not adverts per se that are banned, but COMMERCIAL adverts - so your image gallery is safe). If, as we have been, we don't take a hard line on images of commercial products that's no reason to disregard the "rule" entirely and blatantly flout it "because it's an image, like any other, and I have the right to rant if I want to".

NB that "rant" comment wasn't aimed at dodger specifically, I've seen a number of vendors get "unhappy" about their adverts being maligned or actually moved out of the forum. The "reasons" that they should be allowed to do so generally boil down to the same thing - "This is where more Poser users look so it's where I'm gonna post", although it's sometimes wrapped up in excuses like "I've always posted my images here, I don't see why I should change now that I'm selling the models". Which kinda misses the point of "commercial adverts" bein goff-topic, in that it's the commercial nature which is the change, and the reason for having a forum specifically to showcase products. Just my 2 cents. We wouldn't want this to be a 1-sided argument, with the only 2-sided arguments happening when an advert actually does get pulled.

The whole deal is a bit iffy...When I posted a few images of how great I think black eyes are and show them in an image...or I did oa couple with iw43D Harley Softail...that could be construed as a bit of advert as well..... What , exactly. is the mission of this forum ??? obviously to recieve help...and I would assume technique, program use, etc... Is it a forum to show off your artwork???? I would think so....especially if you are requesting technique assistance....but also as a place to show what you can do....or at least direct folks that are interested to a work you've just completed..if some people aren't interested, they don't need to go to the gallery to see it. Is it a forum to advertise your stuff? Probably not, but, I for one, am interested in what is coming up, ideas of new products, and what is being released. It is also essential for us to be able to correspond to the merchants to request items...a wish list of new products...what better place than here ??? I have to assume the Product Showcase forum is to showcase newly or about to be released products. Perhaps we need another forum where wips of new products can be shown...where we can then discuss with the creators suggestions for the product, etc...where we can request products....where vendors can see what folks want and work on that item....etc.... But my overall thought on this issue is that we should all just kinda float along here and quit being so anal on following every little whim and desire for conformity and regulation to tunnelvision. Allow this forum to follow its natural flow.... yes, there will probably be an occasional product shown..so what ??? We're basically all interested in the new stuff anyway, and if you're not, don't look at the thread....showing an occasional wip for a product is no different than DAZ, Curious, or anyone else being here....we need to relaxe and enjoy what we have without making it all full of rules and whining. Maybe we should be worrying more about our freedoms being eroded in this country and the fact our brothers and sisters are being killed in Iraq...and the homeless and hungrey all over the world..than about whose wip is being shown here.... This place in the world should be for enjoyment. (sorry to go out of bounds, but it just hit me like that all of a sudden)

I'm with Spit. I like the Poser Technical forum BECAUSE it's not filled with a bunch of simple newbie questions. Not knocking being a newbie, mind you, we've all been there. But it's really nice to have a forum aimed at more advanced users. As for the Product Showcase, I argued strongly against that whole thing in the beginning, thought it should at least be voluntary like at PoserPros. But R'osity had a lot fewer merchants back then... Now? I'm forced to agree that the Poser forum is crowded enough without adding ads. Of course, some people are a little too uptight about that, jumping on you just for mentioning your products. But on the other hand, posting the old "product WIP" to get around the rules is getting out of hand. And I don't feel that DAZ products should get anymore leeway than any others. Christ, R'osity makes money from MY sales amd if I can't post ads here then DAZ people certainly shouldn't be able to, either. This is a rare case where I've been forced to change my mind and side with the PTB. several admins faint

Sorry I'll have to side with _dodger on this one. Seems any WIP progress get shuttled off to product showcase by default. Those kinds of post seem to be easier to spot so therefore come under fire more often. But in the true sense of fairness the other posts that should be delegated to other forums should have to be held to the same standard. Dave

Dave-So: To quote: "Maybe we should be worrying more about our freedoms being eroded in this country and the fact our brothers and sisters are being killed in Iraq...and the homeless and hungrey all over the world.. [snip] This place in the world should be for enjoyment. (sorry to go out of bounds, but it just hit me like that all of a sudden)" Agreed there are more important things in the world, but I'm not sure that we should argue that dodger shouldn't have started this thread in favour of advertisements just because there are more important issue in the world - or we'd never have any threads! Other than that, I haven't seen anyne arguing that (for example) the DAZ Millenium cat images should be moved - because (after all!) it's the potential buyers who have been askeing, in this forum, about the item. DAZ, technical (TRULY technical, involved stuff) and so on and so forth should all be adhered to in the first place. True the mods should ideally hold them all to the same level, but that'd be a lot easier if there was less policing required :) A failure to spot some transgressions doesn't (for me) make an argument that all transgressions should be llowed. Cliff

Yeah but it seems like the possible product postings are the ones being picked on. Dave

And threads about how cool the latest Lord of the Rings movie was should be in the OT Forum. And threads about how to get a website to work or how to use Flash should be in the HTML Forum. And threads about viruses and worms and hoaxes should be in the OT Forum. And threads about your image being stolen should be in the Copyright Forum. But... the Poser Forum is the most popular forum on this site. People post their messages here because it will get read. Mods don't seem to have the time to go through every thread and move it (even the ones with blatanly un-Poser-like subject lines). And if the point of the moving WIP posts into another forum is to prevent "commercials", what about all the "Come see my latest free thing" postings? Yes, the item is for free, but it's still a "come and get it" posting. Now, what if everyone did this? Sure, we would have access to tons of free things, but other posts would get buried even quicker under the barrage of "New free item here" "Come get my free item" "Look here for a free item" "New free thing at my site". Just because someone is offering an item form free shouldn't make them exempt from posting "commercials".

Messages get buried period. I fussed to a mod bout the WIP postings and was told that if they allowed them it would add 10 additional postings a day. Gee, 10? I still think if there could be some "flag" put on the posting for "commercial", then those that dont want to read the post dont have to. Seems the "commercials" got moved to their own forum all because enough people complained bout having to read all the posts only to find out that the product was up for sale and not "free". I dont recall that there was person holding a gun to your head making you read thru those postings when you didnt want to. I scan thru the postings before I even pick which ones I will read. Dave

So if there is a technical forum for Poser technical questions, and WIPS go in the Product showcase and some free things (add-ons and those offered at commercial sites). so what exctly does that leave for the Poser forum? If the Poser forum is for "learning and discussing" the software & content than some "technical" issues belong here.

commercial adverts are, erm, commercial adverts. Freebie "come and get it" postings are distinct from commercials by not being commercial. Should the "come get a freebie" posts reach a point where, in the eye of TPTB, they are seriously disruptive to the forum then I imagine they'll discuss ways to crack down on it. The whole idea of having multiple forums and rules and regulations is to make R'osity work as smoothly as possible, and to be as good as it can be for the widest range of users they can manage. Copyright theft was in fact the topic of a recent "Look guys, post these things to the right forum will you? That's what it's there for" post/crackdown/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. No-one picks on commercial adverts, that I'm aware of, because they are commercial adverts. They're picked on (AFAICS) when there's been too many blatant ones and people are irritated by the OT posts. Because, yes, they're off topic.

Guess I dont see how they're "OT" if they're "poser-related". My biggest beef is in sending them to be posted in the "showcase" forum that kind of limits the traffic they get. Grocery stores are notorious for putting items out in the way so that customers will notice the item. If they always put it on the shelf in it's "assigned" place, what are the chances the customer is going to run across it? Pretty slim and nil. Just my 2 cents worth. Dave

Seems to me that lately there's been a lot of whining in these forums (myself included). Maybe everyone needs to take a chill-pill and get back to creating art. Isn't that why we're all here in the first place??

that's it in a nutshell, from the other way around. Many, many times I, my wife, or random strangers have been heard exclaiming in anguish that the "gosh-darned" supermarket has shuffled stuff around, hiding what we want to buy in amongst what they want to sell. It's all a matter of Point of View. Those who want to use the Poser forum to read hints and tips, wander mildly OT within a thread before getting back on topic, and generally be part of a "community" without having a bias towards making money from the community apparently don't want their "Looks what I just found! Cool!" and "Help! How do I simulate renderosity in Poser 4?" and so on and so forth drowned in commercial adverts. Most despicable (IMHO) ar eadverts which the advertisers claim are nothing of the sort - because they insult the intelligence of the reader. On the other side we have, as you've pointed out, merchants who obviously want their product placed as prominently as possible, where people will see it and possibly buy it. Regardless of whether those people want to be bombarded with commercial images or not. I'm not aware of r'Osity going overboard penalising WIP images, but I've also had a lot of connection issues lately (and even prior to that spend only a fraction of all time here) but personally I'd give more weight to the opinion of the readers than the merchants, if only because the merchants are coming across as aggresively pushy/money-grabbing by wanting THEIR stuff placed above what the forum readers want. At least, going soley by this thread's title it seems that commercial adverts are unpopular!

Could be worse. The commercial adverts could've been pop-up windows. At least as a thread they can be skipped over if you wanted. dave

I would like to show WIPs here and stuff but right now I sort of have to play it vague. If you post a WIP in the Product Showcase for the most part it is looked at by a few that know you and that is it. Here, if you are trying to get feedback, it happens a lot more. Product showcase is for done stuff that is in the stores soon and people are more afraid to say anything critical in there than they are here.

Dave you yourself used the term "notorious". I'm not convinced that any notorious behaviour is a good thing(TM). For them to be pop-ups would, I suspect, require Renderosity to approve of them. anyway - popups can just be closed, right?

Maybe a "WIP & Product Requests" as a new forum is a better idea than we've been imaginging to date? Or maybe "WIP" banners could be included amongst the other advertising banners that we're forced to have at the top of our web browsers? Because - surely there's a better answer than the "We don't want to see all that stuff" / "We don't care, we want to show to the maximum no. of viewers regardless of what they think they want" roundabout :)

I'm afraid you're being rather naive if you think that would ever happen. Ok, I'll rephrase. It's a job for them to decide, not you or I. These are not Dodger's forums, nor are they Netherworks' forums, they are here for everyone to participate in. We are all guests here and we all have opinions-a-plenty, but ultimately it's the job of the moderators to "moderate".

"I still think if there could be some "flag" put on the posting for "commercial", then those that dont want to read the post dont have to." I suggested the same thing over and over when the Product Showcase was first introduced, but it never happened.

It's better to have a "flag" to check than have to decide "Now which forum should this belong in?" I belong to one forum that when a post gets moved to another forum, the thread is still there in the wrong forum, but has a line saying to which forum it was moved. Seems like our pat answer seems to be to create yet another forum for any old miniscule difference. dave

Sheesh

Dave-So said: Maybe we should be worrying more about our freedoms being eroded in this country and the fact our brothers and sisters are being killed in Iraq...and the homeless and hungry all over the world..than about whose wip is being shown here....This place in the world should be for enjoyment. Now this 'IS' important!!

PapaBlueMArtin:- Eek, I goofed. Thanks for that info (Wishing Well) as I'd completely missed it - tho to be honest it's not something I'd be likely to look for :) As for Dr Geep, I think he's probably a prime example of the difference between great, useful information (what he generally does, and superbly too!) and the really technical deep soul-searching technical queries that belong (IMHO) in the technical forum. As for the mods - I pity them. Mods and Ops and Sysops and the like the world over are under-valued and attacked from all sides, but the vast majority of them (especially the ones that last more than a week) aren't power-hungfry fiends that want to exercise the power for the hell of it. Most of them want to do the minimum work necessary. If they feel that they have to move/kill a thread (or whatever) then not only is that work (however little) but also preparing for the barrage to come is no small deal. So I suspect that in general that they not to make decisions lightly, or to be biased.

OK - Lets get down to the basics :) What DO YOU as a Member of the Poser Forum Want to see in the Poser Forum? 1. Do you want Poser Technical questions? 2. Do you want Poser "How 2's" [mini tutorials] 3. Do you want to be able to ask a question when having a problem with your Poser products and be able to get a somewhat quick answer? 4. Do you want to see Merchant's works in progress? 5. Do you want to have Off Topic subjects allowed [as in so and so just had a baby, or the weather is nasty here how is it in your area, or does anyone know if a specific member is ill? 6. Do you want to see Copyright issues that deal with Poser Images? 7. Do you wish to post something special you did, or an award you received with your Poser Images? 8. Do you want to know when Outside Venders are having sales [as in the Daz Club] 9. Do you want to have online Lectures by Poser Professionals in the Poser Chat Channel? 10. Do you want us to continue with the Moderator Gallery Picks of the Week? 11. Do you want to know what Poser Free Items are available? 12. Do you just want to Chat about whatever, be it Poser or non Poser? 13. Do you want to view Member's works in progress? 14. Do you want to know what Poser tutorials members have posted? 15. Do you want to be able to post Pro and Con threads like this one - As long as they are Poser Related Issues? Let us know what You the Poser Forum Community wants :) Thanks so much for your constructive input. ladynimue

1. Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes 4) Only if they have a problem they want help fixing or sincerely want advice. 5) Only in the case of major life events. I'm not interested in the weather, but I am interested if someone had a baby or is seriously ill. 6) Yes. 7) Yes. 8) Yes, if posted by members not affiliated with that outside vender as just a friendly "heads up!" I don't want it used as an excuse to advertise. 9) That would be really cool. 10) Yes 11) Yes. Major reason I come to Renderosity's instead of other Poser forums. 12) No. There are plenty of other places to do that. 13) Only if they have a problem or sincerely want advice/critique. 14) Yes. 15) Yes.

1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. No, if it has no other content than that. 5. Yes 6. No 7. Yes 8. No 9. indifferent 10. indifferent 11. Yes 12. No 13. Yes 14. Yes 15. Yes

1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. No 5. Only if someone is ill or along those lines 6. No 7. Yes 8. No 9. Yes 10. Sure 11. Yes 12. No 13. Yes, if it's help or critique related. 14. Yes 15. Yes

A resounding YES to all except 6. The discussions get too heated and should be in the copyright forum.

This is great input - Thanks so much for taking the time to post your answers, we would like to hear from everyone on this if possible. ladynimue

I don't so much mind Poser Technical questions and Howtos. I myself have posted several howtos (reflection mapping and such) back before I saw the segregative activities hit full effect. But I do want fairness. If the Product Showcase exists as a place to move anything that has anything to do with a work that is going to be or is being sold when posted by the merchant themselves, then yes, I want to see Technical things moved to the technical forum and OT posts moved to the OT forum because that's wha those forums are there for. As to number 3, well, to be honest, it's generally the other way around. I'm usually one of the ones giving the answer, not asking, so that one doen't really apply to me. Though, on that note, we should have a Poser Troubleshooting FAQ, even just as a static document in the backroom, and REALLY PROMINENT links to it, so that when someone does post the inevitable 'I lost my document window' a moderator can kindly point them to the REALLY BLATANT LINK to the FAQ and tell them to see question #1 and quietly delete their post. With some notification that questions that are in the FAQ will be removed, thread and all, that's perfectly fair. I want to see EVERYONE'S works in progress, and I want to be able to show my works in progress whether it be something I can and will sell or not. I don't want my WIPs discriminated against because they will be or may be sold at some point. 5. Do you want to have Off Topic subjects allowed [as in so and so just had a baby, or the weather is nasty here how is it in your area, or does anyone know if a specific member is ill? Again, I don't mind Off Topic posts not being moved if the same even-handed moderation is used for WIPs. Notice I'm not going over 'Merchant WIPs' or 'Product WIPs'... I'm saying WIPs in general because I, for one, do not see a distinction between art based on whether or not it's profitable. 6. Do you want to see Copyright issues that deal with Poser Images? I'd generally rather not see copyright issues. Seeing copyright issues that deal with specific poser images and such -- i.e. 'Key, Ladynimue, I saw your recent picture on a T-shirt at the mall. Are you selling T-shirts of that?' doesn't bother me, but I get rather fed up with the 'Attention everyone who bought Stoner Eyes, it's a ripoff by footballcoach of Evilheart's Demon Eyes' messages. I certainly wish to post special things I've done and awards I've received with my Poser images or creations. One thing I'm seeing as a distinction being made that shouldn't be... If you load up three things you bought, two things that came with Poser, and four things you got in Free Stuff and arrange them to make a picture or simply work out a matching theme for them even, it's art. I'm in no way saying it's not, even though that's been suggested of Poser artists. There have been comparisons between things like arranging painted action figures and taking a polaroid. People have taken offence to this. Thing is, I don't think those are necessarily bad coparisons, either.... but I think that arranging action figures and taking a polaroid counts as art. Making such look good REALLY counts as art. But then there is no way that the tricks I've done with Yoroi (Japanese armour) in making it to look like it has a texture* even around the edges, or the vectoral sculpting that goes into them, or the paint jobs I've given such, or the accessories I've built to go along with by any means are any less art because I'm going to sell it. Announcements of sales, ads specifically geared towards selling a specific product (i.e., Buy this ray gun now at my store), and so on belong in the Product Showcase forum. Thing like what several of us were doing by giving sneak peeks of M3 that everyone kinda wanted to see (even people who complained in many cases) and at the same time being able to show off what we were creating -- NOT tout our wares (which weren't even wares yet, and in my case is still at the 'almost there' stage) -- not only shold be allowed here, they belong here. Frankly, WIPs do not belong in the Product Showcase forum because it's for things that are for sale not things that people are making. I don't even know what you mean by the online lectures thing, so I doubt if t concerns me much. I've never even noticed any moderator gallery picks of the week, nor do I know what those are, so I doubt if, at least in my case as repreentative, they're very effective, whatever hey are. Of course I want to know what Poser Free items are available, though I think Renderosity is shooting itself in the foot by segeregating those from themarketplace, as they [free stuff] are the biggest draw of this website. I do not believe that a price tag of $0.00 in any way distinguishes a different level of commerciality than a price tag of $0.01 or or $1.00 or $10.00 or $100.00. Even if a person id giving something away completely out of the goodness of their heart (and many aren't -- some have ads on their sites, some use them to draw attention to their not-free-stuff, and some simply provide them as support items for their not-free-stuff, requiring the merchandise first), they're still being commercial, drawing (intentionally or not) traffic and attention away from other things, and so on. Zero-dollar-stuff is the same as any other merchandise, just with a lower price tag and no guaranty at all. I'd like to see the Poser forum generally deal with Poser stuff. Works in progress (merchandise or not), links to tuts, and so on are all fair game as far as I'm concerned, but as soon as anyone starts discriminating against any portion thereof then such segeregation and discrimination should be applied evenly and fairly across the board. Some people hate to see anything that might someday be be for sale. Some people hate to see any technical questions. Some people hate to see copyright violation notices. Some people hate to see fluffy toonimals and sad attampts at humour. Some people hate to see nudity. Some people don't want to see violence. Some peole don't want to see TV related stuff. Some people don't want to see movie stuff. SOme people don't want to see the blood sweat and tears someone has put into creating the virtual representation of their pouty-lipped simpering dream girl. As soon as a coalition is formed to relegate any of these things to smoe backwaters of the site, then such segeregation should be applied across the board. ANY subject which enough people don't want to see ('enough' being one of those things for later debates, I suppose) should be relegated to its own little shantytown somewhere on the site, or at the very least this should be done when specific categtories DO in fact already exist.

Quinlor, Nether... you've both said you don't want to see merchants' works in progress, but you do want to see members' works in progress (Nether, with caveats). I'm a member. See, that's exactly what I'm saying Ladynimue... The end goal of my work should not have anything to do with whether I can post it or not. To do so is discrimination.

Points well taken dodger, thank you for your input- I should rephrase #13 to: Any works in Progress :) ladynimue

11. Do you want to know what Poser Free Items are available? Giving a bit more thought to this... if Free Stuff promos were also forced into the Product Showcase forum, that might alleviate the frustration many merchants (I still have the ethical argument, but many do not) feel in the thought that the PS forum is a 'Ghetto'. If postings of Free Stuff were also forced there and the description said so (and the Poser Forum said to go look there for them now) it might draw a lot more traffic into that forum.

"If postings of Free Stuff were also forced there and the description said so (and the Poser Forum said to go look there for them now) it might draw a lot more traffic into that forum." Now THAT'S a good idea! Of course, there'll be a lot of griping about free stuff providers being mistreated, blah blah blah. But it would certainly increase traffic to the Showcase. And it really makes sense: if you're looking for something, free or otherwise, you'd have one forum to browse rather than two.

Excellent constructive comments everyone - thanks again for your input! ladynimue

1. don't care 2. yes 3. yes 4. no 5. don't care 6. don't care 7. yes 8. no 9. don't care 10. not really/don't care 11. yes 12. yes 13. sometimes 14. sometimes 15. sure, why not? Personally, I really don't care about the "mod picks" and "copyright issues" postings. Those are just a waste of my time since I have no interest in them, BUT I do acknowledge that they are of interest to other members so it's no big deal if they post 'em here, I can skip over them. On the other hand, I remember when adverts were allowed in here and there were times when I would have to scroll through almost 3 pages to get to a posting that WASN'T an advertisement, so please, do NOT allow them back in here without at LEAST a tag required so that we can skip over them without being drawn in by the misleading subject headers that are so commonly used. When I want to know what's "new" in the marketplace, I gasp actually go to the marketplace and hit the "what's new" button. I know, it's a radical concept, but hey, whatcha gonna do? If I need more info after that, I look in the showcase forum or gallery. I get enough advertising shoved in my face with those stupid banner ads at the top of the page, I don't want it here in the forum as well. And yes, I am a merchant (but just barely), but I'm first and foremost a customer and believe me, the BEST way to wind up on my "do not buy" list is to shove your product in my face or trick me into viewing an advertisement by making it look like a "normal" post. Kate (who sends unsolicited snail mail advertising back to the sender in the convenient postage paid envelope along with as much of the contents of her shredder that will fit)

Dodger, I can honestly see some of your points about the WIP type posts in the Poser forum and perhaps you're right and there shouldn't be a distinction between freebies or sale items. And granted, you appear to just have wanted to show off what you've been working on. Fair enough. However, then merchant related posts should be allowed in the Poser forum. I can easily see a lot of WIP posts being started for upcoming products. If that's ok with the powers-that-be, that's fine with me. I'm a merchant also, and I'd also like to have the extra exposure by showing off what I'm doing now. The answers I posted to ladynimue's inquiry were what I thought - if categories are to be used. So, whatever the mods and admins decide, I'll go with. I can easily not click on posts that I'm not interested in - so, it's a non-issue for me there. But, I don't want to be discriminated against either if I post my WIPs.

I'd be OK with putting freebie threads in the Product Showcase forum, as long as it was clear (like, a header at the top) and consistent. I try to make mine worthy of being considered a "product". One with a really good price. ^_~