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Subject: Displacement Map Experiments In Daz Studio

Veritas777 opened this issue on Jan 07, 2004 · 36 posts
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Veritas777 ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 9:04 AM · edited Tue, 26 November 2024 at 5:20 PM

file_92203.jpg

I have never really worked with Displacement Maps until I got DAZ Studio, but they are widely used in other higher end programs like MAX and Lightwave.

Veritas777 ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 9:12 AM

file_92204.jpg

This is a closer look. Basically I took the DAZ Dragon Bump maps and reversed them in Photoshop (MAP-INVERT) I then applied them in the DS Displacement Map channel at 200%. I also placed the Bump Maps in the Bump map channel at 200% And finally, used the Metallic Lighting Model on these surfaces.

On the wing struts you can see where it was NOT applied, as well as NOT on the inside of the ear. This was ONLY a test and not a FINISHED project- so it still looks UNFINISHED.

Veritas777 ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 9:16 AM

file_92205.jpg

This is a WILD sort of look using GLOSSY instead of Metallic. No- a reflection map was not applied or used. I would expect a reflection map to obviously look much more like Chrome- and that will be one of my uncoming DS experiments!

Veritas777 ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 9:19 AM

file_92206.jpg

These IW43D Dinos already have nice bump maps built into their hand painted texture maps, so the Displacement Map effect just enhanced that look.

Veritas777 ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 9:24 AM

file_92207.jpg

Here's a render with ALL shadows on. It seems to take about four times longer to render, so I would only use this option when I was sure eveything in the image was completely ready- and that it would be for perhaps a commercial project.

SAMS3D ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 9:52 AM

I like the glossy one....shows deep detail..Sharen

stewer ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 10:53 AM

file_92208.jpg

At this strength, there's not much difference to a bump map. Can you set it stronger?

DistantWorlds ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 10:55 AM

file_92209.jpg

It's also great looking on sunglasses have a look and see for yourself! ;) BTW: I know this are not the original Trinity glasses, but I have to re-model them so I couldn't use them at the current stage.

DistantWorlds ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 10:56 AM

Argh......man I really need to get rid of these damn (sorry) typos. =(

Spanki ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 1:30 PM

Basically I took the DAZ Dragon Bump maps and reversed them... I'm curious why you reversed them? Did you want the bumps to push IN instead of OUT?

Cinema4D Plugins (Home of Riptide, Riptide Pro, Undertow, Morph Mill, KyamaSlide and I/Ogre plugins) Poser products Freelance Modelling, Poser Rigging, UV-mapping work for hire.

RHaseltine ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 1:33 PM

I wondered that too - when I tried it on RawArt's Golem the displacement seemed to go the right way from the bumpmap.

audity ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 3:02 PM

file_92210.jpg

Hi Veritas,

There's no displacement on your render (or an extremely weak one). Like Stewer, I can only see a strong bump map. The polygons and the surface normals are not modified at all.

See above an example of "real" displacement.

:) Eric

DefaultGuy ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 3:25 PM

Attached Link: http://brian.curiouslabs.com

Hi audity, Nice example of displacement and an excellent render. I'm curious what program this was rendered in. Can you let me know? I'm either going to upgrade my LightWave version or invest in another high end modeling/rendering application this year. Best regards, -DefaultGuy

1Freon1 ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 8:03 PM

file_92211.jpg

I know this a D|S forum, but here is an example of displacement maps in Poser5. All materials used are just material room mess arounds. Underneath that sludge is just a bare untextured Mike.

Questor ( ) posted Wed, 07 January 2004 at 8:50 PM

file_92212.jpg

This was sent to me by someone who has Studio but isn't and doesn't want to be a member here, in response to my question. Displacement set to 100% positive in studio on a primitive box. Hope that helps

BazC ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 3:12 AM

Can you set displacement to more than 100%? You'd never get an effect like Stewer or Audity posted without going well over 100% looking at Questors post. Of course they may allow more extreme displacement in later releases. DefaultGuy - Audity is Cinema forum mod so that was probably done in Cinema 8. Baz

BazC ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 3:20 AM

Incidently if anyone is thinking about playing with displacement in other apps; in apps like Cinema, Lightwave etc the detail you can acheive in the displacement is dependent on mesh density. That cube Audity posted was probably heavily sub divided to get that nice smooth/crisp displacement. In DazStudio (3Delight) or Poser 5 etc microploygon displacement is used allowing much finer detail regardless of mesh density. This allows you to use much lower res models. - Baz

DefaultGuy ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 4:22 AM

Attached Link: http://brian.curiouslabs.com

Thanks BazC for the additional info. That said, I'll install my C4D R7.3 with BodyPaint for the time being. I want to revisit the C4D modeler and probably make visits to the C4D forum this year from time to time. Yeah, micropolygon rendering is quite valuable as you mentioned. Andrew Bryant of Pixels3D showed me some cool renders he did with displacement when he worked on the FireFly render for Poser 5. Definitely a plus when it comes to efficient modeling and materials.

Questor ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 5:57 AM

Can you set displacement to more than 100%? Sorry, Baz, took a while to get the answer. Yes you can set displacement higher in Studio. It will climb to 200% I don't know what fine tuning or adjustments Daz will make to that

Questor ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 6:01 AM

when he worked on the FireFly render for Poser 5. Definitely a plus when it comes to efficient modeling and materials But can Poser 5 produce results like those posted by Stewer in #7 I've not seen anything even remotely like it done so far. Would be interesting to know.

bip77 ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 6:06 AM

Attached Link: P5 displacement experiments

For comparision maybe someone is interested in above link. (Just experiments - don't know if it's usable for something...)

stewer ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 6:25 AM

But can Poser 5 produce results like those posted by Stewer in #7 I've not seen anything even remotely like it done so far. Would be interesting to know. Sure, if you paint the right displacement map. Unfortunately, I'm not good at texturing, but if you want to try, I offer you my help.

Questor ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 7:03 AM

file_92213.jpg

Thanks Stewer, the example linked to by bip was sufficient. That effect cannot currently be reproduced in Studio apparently. I was able to easily reproduce it in cinema but I was told that even at 200% displacement in Studio the results were... erm, somewhat sad. Displacement currently - even on a dense mesh - is limited and the end result was not much greater than the image I was sent (posted above). Looks like Daz need to do some work on that.

stewer ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 7:20 AM

Good displacements don't depend on the mesh density - a REYES renderer can create a whole landscape from a single polygon (if you have Poser 5, try yourself - plug the fBm node in the ground's displacement channel and set the displacement to 10). The image shows the Poser raptor with a simple displacement map - with a more detailed map, this could go in the direction of the image I posted before.

stewer ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 7:21 AM

file_92215.jpg

forgot the image - need coffee!

Questor ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 7:24 AM

***Good displacements don't depend on the mesh density *** I didn't say it did, I said that "even with" dense mesh Studio couldn't do it. That means, simple mesh or dense mesh Studio cannot reproduce the displacement that was achieved with Poser 5 in Bip's link and Cinema when I tried it.

BazC ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 1:15 PM

DefaultGuy - You're welcome! Questor - Thanks for the info! Baz :o)

audity ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 2:18 PM

@DefaultGuy: Sorry to answer you so late, I totally forgot this thread!

Like Baz pointed out, it's a Cinema4D R8.5 render. This is a basic vertex displacement on a high subdivision cube made with DiShaper. Definitely not as powerful as micropolygon displacement.

:) Eric

audity ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 2:30 PM

file_92216.jpg

BTW, have a look at this... Now this is what I call displacement!

(image copyrights: Dave Carwell/WETA digital)

BazC ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 4:12 PM

Woah! That's pretty cool!

Ghostofmacbeth ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 4:12 PM

That is a gorgwous displacement audity .. thanks for the link .. Now I have to see if I can get Zbrush to do that for me :)


melanie ( ) posted Thu, 08 January 2004 at 7:33 PM

My gosh, you folks are so far ahead of me. I've played a few times with D|S, but I've done nothing more than try to render a few characters. I didn't even know it could do this. I guess I need to get in there and poke around in it more. Melanie

Poisen ( ) posted Wed, 14 January 2004 at 1:20 PM

audity,HMmmmm z displacments......cant wait.
Zbrush is king..or soon 2 be..
but daz studio should be a vast improvment, good displacment or not. my 2 cents

PheonixRising ( ) posted Wed, 14 January 2004 at 2:17 PM

From what I understand the DS dispnacement can do this with a tweak of the shader or a new one.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."



NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Questor ( ) posted Wed, 14 January 2004 at 5:34 PM

It should be able to Anton, the displacement engine shouldn't need more than a tweak to make it work. Seems that they've got the levels of intensity crossed. The displacement currently does work, but it's set more to "strong bump map" than what it should be. If Daz are aware of that problem then it would serve them to fix it. The software is obviously capable, as is the renderer it's just not doing it yet. :) Whether it will be able to do the ZBrush thing is another matter, but one can hope.

PheonixRising ( ) posted Wed, 14 January 2004 at 6:32 PM

From what I remember Rob is doing alot of the Shaders which I think he is still learning. I am sure if he doesn't someone else will provide one.

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."



NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

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