Gee, wouldnt it be nice if there was a forum where members could argue and Debate any topic they wanted? NO! No arguments! Now go write on the board a hundred times, "An argument is NOT a series of points meant to establish a position, it is a violation of TOS". :-D bonni

Attached Link: Visit Sixus1.com/Forum where the TOS is BYOB !!

Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content, and/or pornographic in nature.

Isn't this site age restricted ?? You have to check off something that you are at least 15 to sign up. And I would think that it might be due to content since it does sell things like bondage gear and morphing female genitalia.

I could be wrong though, just a question.

See ya,
Rebekah Garner
Sixus1 Media

Bondage gear isn't pornographic in nature, it's just plain fun. Now Sixus1, you go stand in the corner and don't come out till your called!

The term TOS no longer appears appropriate, possibly "Penal Code" would be better. Note the way that "the list goes on" - so there are lots of other things that are not permitted, but you don't find out what they are till you do them. I would like to draw attention to some of the completely non-Poser related posts in this thread, particularly #s 10, 14, 16, 19 and 49. I trust the authors of those posts have received their warnings.

I just wonder... Will this rule FINALLY include staff members, too... Not that I am looking at anybody in particular???

I like coming here and consider many of you guys to be friends. I like to hear your little OT things, when someone needs a shoulder to cry on (mourning) or has happy news (babies and weddings) or has done something great (exams and stuff) - well it is nice that they tell us. We can all support/cheer each other.

ok. i understand that you need rules. i also understand that you want a "clean" forum. but you will see that respect, helpfulness, ... all those positive characteristics mankind is able to show, can't be forced by rules. i fear this will dry out the spirit, instead of helping it. time will show. but there is a good chance i won't see it. 'bye

I understand the need for free expression, but I think people are being overly dramatic about "censorship". 99% of Rosity's members are kind, friendly, helpful people. But there is a darkside on rosity, of people who respect no law and think nothing of attacking people in gallery comments, forum posts and instant messages. I truly believe that these stepped up enforcements are necessary to limit abusive behavior and opportunists who would clog the site with irrelevant posts. The internet by default is a lawless, chaotic, aggressive place. This site should be applauded for their efforts to maintain civility and a code of conduct that ensures we all get to enjoy our time here, even if some people don't get the thrill of yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater.

However, this can usually be done in a less threatening way than posting a long list of crimes and punishments. By and large, this forum is popular because it's a busy, laid-back sort of place. Let's try and keep it that way.

Apparently, the "goins ons" here have been infringinging upon copyrights held by the producers of the "Jerry Springer" show.

"Whatever is not expressedly permitted is forbidden. No exceptions." I presume we will go on talking, debating, exaggerating, stepping on toes, complimenting, gushing, holding the new baby up for general friendly enthusiasm and hypocrisy, whining, complaining, asking questions, answering questions, reporting news and gossip, enjoying each other's noisy, sometimes abrasive, often silly, often supportive company. The only difference will be the hovering presence of the police and the occasional disappearance, sometimes unnoticed, sometimes embarrassingly public. Will it be against the TOS to talk about the vanished? M

Ben Dover : You said : What if someone asks for a place to host something and I refer them to PlanIt3D.com, or we have a new article or interview that's Poser-related? Are those acceptable posts in the Poser forum or is that considered advertising? smitthm: Personally, I'll have no issues with either, I think Spike meant like in My above example, using Myself as the target. Altho, He will have to clarify that. -------------------------------------------------------- I hope that view becomes the standard. In the past, though, we (Rebekah and I) have been reprimanded heavily for anything we might say that could possibly generate an interst in the tutorials or contents of our site. Even though we have supported rendo vehemently all along, even when we've disagreed with it. As it stands, I haven't been able to post a piece art over here in nearly a year because if I do it's automatically moved to Product Showcase. It's almost like i'm being penalized because i refuse to use other companies (see, no names mentioned)products in my renders or for always using my own... I make my own stuff, Sixus1 Media (our company) sells original figures... so I guess I'm not allowed to use my own products in my own art and post here because folks might find it interesting.... I wonder if posting images of my figures rendered in Maya (where I make most of my stuff) would be allowed in the Maya forum, or if the subject matter were then converted and offered for Poser, would it be moved to the Product Showcase as well? Some say I enjoy debating the semmantics of things like this.... I say the devil is in the details. So how about those details, eh? :) I've been told jokingly that Sixus1 Media and our supporters are kind of the lunatic fringe of the Poser world.... at this rate, I'm very glad we've been able to provide the lunatics with thier own asylum ;) >>>now going to stand in the corner with Rebekah-- I guess we'll hook up with the rest of the lunatics in detention--- that's where the really interesting stuff always happened in school anyway!<<< -Les

What I want to know.... If it should happen that someone gets kicked out... and someone raised that already above but I did not see an answer... and they have made purchases. Now, say there is an issue - i.e. the recent copyright stuff - which requires that user to have to enter and re-download their purchase... If they cannot do that, you effectively force them to continue to use material that is infringing on someone's copyright. Also, they may not even know they are infringing on someone's copyright. Frankly, I don't think many have anything to worry about. But I also would like to know a few things: a.) Who makes the decision of who is getting a warning and who isn't? b.) Does that person have a right of appeal? c.) Does the warning ever expire? If they never expire, someone may have 3 strikes in a year and be out, while they are normally reasonable people and of great value to the community, while another gets 3 strikes in a day and are out. What if that person is a Merchant? To post here I need an account, which is tied in with my purchases, and I am assuming the merchants would have that name tied to their merchant area. So if you end up banning a merchant... what about us customers? When can we expect an edit button? When can we expect sticky posts for topics such as this? Might want to think about that.

Excuse me, Is this the right room for an argument??

There are other similar sites out there where the rules are a lot more relaxed and they haven't burned down yet. Perhaps it is time to look around and learn why and perhaps improve? Why is it that these other sites can allow people to disagree without any heavy-handedness still go along fine... More specifically address the questions about the warnings. Do they expire? If so, after how long? What if they're totally wrong? Like the profanity TOS one that actually isn't in the TOS... What are the appeal abilities?

Here are the rules; these are the rules until we need other rules to validate our suspension of prior rules or the adding of further rules which may or may not be congruent with the previous rule or sets thereof. Should further new rules be deemed necessary, it is our rule that you may or may not be notified of said new rules until such time as you are in violation of them, at which point further rules may be enacted in order to facilitate the furhter enforement of the previously created rules. Y'know, at least monarchies and dictatorships are honest about who calls the shots. People should never be made to feel they have a say in things when in fact, they really don't. Just a little food for thought there. -Les

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1639517

SHHHHHHHH.....all of you who are not agreeing with the regime are arguing...arguing is sin, sin is punishable by banishment....wait....this is bad ? why? Oh yes..the dictatorship is good, the dictatoship is our friend, the dictatorship knows best....yes thats it...right. Creativity, freedom of thoughts and speech and critisism towards generally crappy art is bad. never mind, i'll go back to making spit balls.

It's interesting how there has been little or no clarification from the PTB since this post was made - we're all left with questions a good many of them relevent, but no answers. I have one question in all this Who watches the watchmen?

Attached Link: http://www.rendervisions.com

What's so hard to understand about Spike's orginal post? R'soty wants to cut down on the arguing and huge threads and low and behold here is a big a$$ thread all full of tiny little bickering and "oh what about this" miniscule complaints. Its a 3d software forum not a debate forum. There are yahoo clubs and groups all over the net for debating all the other issues brought up here. Plus there are other groups set up for the debate of issues like copyright and merchant store etc. What, you think these people here are part of some huge conspirocy or something? If this is the extent of your co-dependancy is to come here and debate on a forum for a 3D rendering app about every knit pick issue then I feel sorry for you.

Mason, you are right. Most people, given a choice between taking control of their lives and watching the Super Bowl, would make the right decision. Tell me who won. No, don't. M

given a choice between taking control of their lives and watching the Super Bowl

That's like a choice between left-handedness and a taste for onions.

Odd.

Comrade Mason it's called freedom of speech and being treated like an adult. If you dont like having to deal with a bunch of stubborn and opinionated artists than turn your computer off or change the url you're at. People are going to argue because thats what they do. people are also going to argue this edict from spike because we're tired of being treated like juveniles. Argument is good for the soul and it provides in most cases a learning experience. It's also part of what defines a community. What we're being told is to sit on our hands and behave like good children. I for one dont like it and I for one will argue about it, and if you're so concerned about it why the hell did you reply to this thread? bit hypocriticle if you ask me.

"Will it be against the TOS to talk about the vanished?"

There are no vanished. To assert that there are any vanished is to argue. Arguing is against the TOS. See how simple that is?

Look, clearly the folks who runt his place are free to run it anyway they want to - and we are free to continue using this place or not. That's the basis of websites being effectively private property. That's fine.

What they can't mandate is this simple consequence... the more they limit the type of things we can come here to discuss and learn about Poser, the more the limit how we can network by trading links to our work and our websites and the sites of others... the less relevant this place becomes.

I am not attacking this forum with this post, I am trying to make sure someone understands why this site is useful and important. To do that, we need to be honest about what it is not. Renderosity is...

• Not the only place to get information about Poser. Several other sites are stepping up to fill the gap. That includes PoserPros for technical information and others for other areas.
• Not a useful place to get serious information about software other than Poser. For all intents and purposes the power users of the CG community don't ever set foot here (other than Poser). You find that at CGTalk and 3DBuzz.
• Not the most important place to get tutorials on general 3D topics. That's 3DBuzz again.
• Not a particularly important place to showcase your work, or make professional contacts. That's CGNetworks.
• Not the best place to network with other artist... because now you aren't really allowed to mention your work or your site without being extremely cautious.
• Not the best place to get comments on your work in progress... because it might be an advertisement if someone takes it wrong.

So, at the moment, what exactly are the strong points here?

• The store has a lot of stuff. The quality is generally bad but some of the merchants are doing an amazing job.
• There are a lot of people who make this site part of their daily rounds in the Poser world.
• This site has a strong feeling of community for some of us (myself included)
• The gallery is convenient though extremely limited in it's functionality.
• That's it... and those things are primarily legacy items. Once the "clean up" takes away from the relevance of the site that will all fade.

Community is fostered by us being able to trade links, talk about what we are working and how, show images of work in progress and link to our company and home pages. That's what a web community is built on.. being able to cross pollinate information. Make that hard or impossible and it fades away.

Again, it is important to know that I support the right of the powers that be to do anything they want with their site. It seems that these are very conservative (not politically) people and maybe the soft sex nature inherent in the concept of Poser has always bothered them.

But it makes this site less and less relevant every change they make. Have ti the way you want it, just don't be confused when it turns out the focus of this Poser community has moved on... and Poser is the only community that is focused on this site.

I don't want to seem like a smart ass here. But on the 3 strikes your out thing... How would you enforce it? I mean between lets say getting a new e-mail account, using a different name, address, whatever... Using a proxy server for different ip address, etc. How could they keep you out if you got a perma-ban. I'm a major computer geek, and I could could think of a half a dozen ways to get around the ban, and get on renderosity if I wanted to. Not that I want to get myself banned, and try everything out mind you. I have better things to do in life. I was just putting in my 2 cents here. All in all the rules are not all that bad. Brad.

"You all proved Spike's point about his post" LOL! The irony, the irony...

hmm.. if the ban is to work, they would have to ban by IP address.. which causes real problems these days. if you are on an ISP such as mine, tracking my IP gives you the local NTL server.. not me. so if you ban me, you ban everyone else on that section of the NTL network... about 250+ renderosity users as I was last told when I brought this up before... (someone was misentering their password and locking us all out for 24hours) so.. how are they gonna do the banning then?

Hey, Spiky boy! My husband and I have a suggestion: Why don't you guys just go ahead and ban all of the members of Renderosity right now and driver yourselves out of business? I mean, why draw it out? If Renderosity is really so determined to kill itself, why make a big long show of it? Just get it over with. Ban all the users and declare chapter eleven. Hell, you guys are going that way anyway. You're bound and determined to do everything wrong in the goal of staying in business and making a tolerable community. Hell, if I didn't know better, I'd assume that Renderosity has been bought out by DAZ behind the scenes and all this screwing up is being done on purpose to slowly shift people over to the DAZ forums without them realising they've been herded. Except I know better. You guys really do screw up this badly and this often. Renderosity uber alles?

does this mean renderosity is gonna become even MORE boring?

The question here is are we going to have NO RULES or a lot of RULES. If I get into a beef with someone, I have no problem getting in their face and telling them to @#$% off. But thats not the kind of place renderosity is and it shouldn't be. Its the mods job to make sure people are being respectful. There are people on rosity who are masters of violating the TOS without getting banned. They use multiple accounts, veiled insults and carefully crafted verbal abuse. So it really is a matter of a bad apple spoiling the whole bunch. How is anyone going to learn if all that goes one here is arguing and cheap shots. I mean, look at this thread, its absurd.

I support the right of the powers that be >> to do anything they want with their site. Sure. Although I would have said "acknowledge" rather than "support." If I go to a free private park to walk my dog and I discover the owners are "cleaning up" the park by shotgunning pigeons, I have to admit that is their right, and I'll say so to anyone who asks me as I head back to my car. For me, Renderosity has been a bit like the second cup of coffee in front of the Today Show. Sure, I'll miss it. But my life will not be altered in some terrible way. Frankly, I'm tired of watching this crap. Er, poo-poo. M

Elizabyte, Kendra, Xenophonz, Caly, Soulhuntre, Xococo... xocono... xoknocko... xicona... whatever g You there with the "x" and all the consonants - you know who you are ;]p~~~ It's not going to change. You're wasting typos that could be better spent elsewhere. [Although from the looks of this thread, we're not running out of typos anytime soon. Especially in the admin posts.] They're not listening. Look how many posts have gone by without input or "discussion" from an admin or mod. Hell... Spork hasn't been back since he posted the notice. It's not going to change. They're going to do what they're going to do, and the pretense of community input and involvement is just a nifty way to wank you guys off so you'll think something constructive is happening. Tim doesn't give a flying rats ass what the members think as long as you don't do it too loudly and drive off customers. Tammy might actually give a rats, but it disagrees with her preconceptions of how you should think, so it's disregarded. What Sixus1 and Lyrra thinks doesn't matter, because they're "disrupting things" under the "competing sites" clause that's in the TOS in invisible ink, so they can be discounted. The Moderators - some of them - might give a damn, but Kbennet's on extended burnout and not around to argue for you, and Shoshanna is new and probably uncomfortable with bucking the Staff. And Spike... hey, Spike's Tim's hired gunsel, only not as effective as the former one. And he's the one that posted the Bill. ;] The Hall Monitors er... Co-Ordinators don't care because ya'll being argumentative and pitching chocks in the wheels gets in the way of their ego gratification for wandering around and "watching" discussions and stomping out dissent. They can't get gold stars on their caps if you snicker at them and tell them they're full of bullshit. A lot of the members don't care, because a lot of people actually like the Dinseyosity atmosphere. Its unthreatening. They don't have to deal with people like me or Legume, who might be perfectly reasonable and helpful most of the time... but who aren't above calling a fuckwit a fuckwit when it quacks like one. That's uncomfortable... and people like ya'll are abrasive and you're unsettling too, because you're asking questions and bucking the mods and upsetting the Lovefest. Stop that. snicker A lot of the merchants aren't going to buck the flow because it'd get in the way of their grabbing a slice of the gravy train - principles are nice, but you can spend money. This crap's been going on for over three years now: a staff member makes an "announcement", asks for "input" from the members, maybe they take a "community vote"............... and nothing changes. It's all whitewash: they go ahead and do what they were going to anyway. Afterall... they know they can always replace members like you with members who won't bitch as much. And they do. How many people really miss Legume? How many just went "Who?" grin Ditto for merchants: they can replace the Wyrmmaster's and Billy-T's if it comes down to it with 50 new merchants who won't individually earn them as much, but in aggregate they can skim more in the exchange. You won't get any answers. You won't get any changes. You won't inspire new policies. They're going to go on interpreting the TOS as they please, enforcing bullshit rules that aren't in the TOS [Like the competing sites thing: ask Clint on that one] when it's convenient, and generally go on managing things with a roadmap and a flashlight trying to find their collective asses.... Because they can and because so far it's working. And ya wanna know the neat thing? ;] There's no victims here, there's only volunteers. Renderosity's the way it is - a saccharinne sewer waiting for the chain to be pulled - because everyone involved made it this way and everyone else keeps coming and spending their cash hoping that some day it'll change. Long as ya'll keep coming back - as long as we all keep coming back - and as long as money continues to go into Tim's Bahama's fund, it's going to stay the same. Why not? Ya'll keep demonstrating you'll continue to volunteer for it. No matter what they do or don't do. Give it up. Wander by 3-D Arena and I'll put up virtual beers on the house... I got the best seat in the community for watching the upcoming flush. ;]

*"Elizabyte, Kendra, Xenophonz, Caly, Soulhuntre, Xococo... xocono... xoknocko... xicona... whatever g You there with the "x" and all the consonants - you know who you are ;]p~~~

It's not going to change. You're wasting typos that could be better spent elsewhere."*

What typos? Damn you Ironbear I pride myself on my spelling and for you to.... oh wait, is that one for me?

But you're right, you're right I know you're right. It's just that this place could be so good you know? But instead of a cool place to discuss whatever it's become quite annoying as power happy mods stick their noses into discussions and act like babysitters. sigh

"Give it up. Wander by 3-D Arena and I'll put up virtual beers on the house... I got the best seat in the community for watching the upcoming flush. ;] "

Posedrek? :) Yay! I'm there if so. But I only drink Scotch no younger than 18 years. :) (but Guinness'll do)

Posedrek is there of course (although I'm not sure I like being portrayed by Angelica Huston). You will find "The compleat PoseDrek! The Semi-Animated! The uncut version!" here: http://forums.3-darena.com/viewtopic.php?t=406 But I suggest you make sure IB washes the glasses - and whatever you do DO NOT look over the bar - he's decided he doesn't have to wear pants roll eyes

But of course. I have all the PoseDreck's stickied at the top of the Bar forum for reading. ;] Can't say when I'll have new ones though... I've hit a dearth of creativity. Not withstanding all the material these people are giving me to work with.

I would also very much like an answer about the "three strikes and you're out" policy.

• Does the "counter" get reset? If so, when? After 1 month? 6 months? 1 year? I'm not sure but I THINK I have a warning. It turned out to be a warning given by mistake becourse a mod misunderstood the concept of a picture, so I THINK it was withdrawn. If it WAS a warning in the first place, it's so long ago...
• WHEN/IF a member gets banned, how about that member's purchases? How do you re-download them? Or for that matter, say you just purchased something and was banned before you even GOT them downloaded?
• What if that member is a merchant? How do you support customers? What about any in-store credits? What happens to your products? Do they stay or are they deleted? What if someone buys one of them and you're banned (and deleted) before that member gets to download his or her purchase?
• What are the remaining things on the apparently long list? (since it "goes on..."?) Just things that can be used against you in case you step on the wrong set of toes?
• What happens when a mod or coordinator breaks the TOS?
• And why didn't I get any e-bots on this thread after my last post?

I MISS LEGUME!!!! (And it's good to see your name as well, Ironbear)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1639517

Good points all, Ironbear. Thank you. For what it's worth, we used to be a very agile and active merchant in the context of Rendo. For that matter, we still do pretty well with sales here. However the agility we used to be so pleased with here came because we were able to to really connect with our cutomers. Between situations like the ones represented in this thread and the many continued layers of excessive control being excercised throughout Rendo, it's become a very "tow the line" kind of place. It's no secret that we are fans of our own site. It's no secret as well that our site is experiencing some amazing growth right now. What I find amusing is how loose the rules on many things are until you show a level of autonomy. It's like in many industries: show the distributors in the chain that you as a producer aren't 100% bound to them, and see how quick they start trying to head off your efforts. It's an analogy, sure; but one worth considering for thos merchants active in this thread. Until recently, Rebekah and I remained quiet about a lot of little things. Advice to us ona personal level from some folks involved on the other side of things is to continue to not make waves. But you're right, Ironbear: principles are nice, but you can spend money. I like that. That is a comment that I can concurr with completely. We pulled out of Daz earlier last year based on principles too numerous to list here. Many situations at Rendo are very close to pushing us in the same direction here. Hell, the overall atmosphere of "lock it down, control the community, control the market" that is being perpetuated here was a big part of why we left Daz. And just for the record, you can do alright on your own. We do quite well. Personally, I think members and merchants alike need to step up to the plate here, put thier ideas, ethics and attitudes on the line and show exactly why "the customer comes first" is the hallmark of good business. Rendo is slapping it's customers (members and merchants both fall into that customer banner IMO) right in the face repeatedly. I wonder if we'll be missed when the banning patrol comes our way.:) BTW: since I haven't recieved an official notice yet, am I to assume I hav'ent incurred the wrath of the almight admins yet? Or have I jsut accrued enough without notice that my notice will be a finger pointed to the dorr? Announcements without definition are a dangerous thing. :)

hey ironbear: another typo on my part (dorr=door) not sure that is a typo or just part of the new webspeach of the terminally irked:)

Or to quote Stephen King... "Don't ask me silly questions, I won't play silly games, I'm just a simple choo-choo train, And I'll always be the same." Ironbear, hat's off and more respect to you. You actually said what I'm pretty sure many have been thinking. :)

.

Sixus1, I much prefer to buy from you directly anyways. More of a bargain and Rebekah is very nice. :) But I also like Daz- they've always done right by me as a customer. :)

"Excuse me, Is this the right room for an argument??" I've told you once.

Attached Link: http://www.planit3d.com

:-)

Ironbear's post is very well written, and in my opinion, very accurate. Renderosity is a corporation, not a community. They're here to make money. It doesn't matter if they ban us all, or we all migrate to other sites. New people will come in to fill our places, and hell, that's probably what they want. Rotate their customer base. Don't want anyone settling in and seeing what's really going on and speaking out about it. No, can't have that. Bah. They'll do what they want, how they want, and when they want. End of story.

But I suggest you make sure IB washes the glasses - and whatever you do DO NOT look over the bar - he's decided he doesn't have to wear pants roll eyes "I find your lack of pants disturbing." Darth Vader to Admiral Motti, Star Wars IV (errr... something like that) Regards- Lemurtek, waiting for the OT axe to fall...

well if they try to say this one is OT just point at Spike and say "He started it!" evil grin