Okay Let me Finish My Dealings With This And Move On. 1. I Don't Like What Edgenet Did Twice Now. 2. I Don't Think, For All His "Concern", Tim Has Taken Much Of a Stand To Explain Things. Jack Has And In Detail. 3. Unlike Someone's Accusation, I Am Not a "Dog" Of Jacks. I Simply Took In The Facts And Made My Own Decision. I Don't Even Know Jack. 4. As Is My Right, I Chose To Pick Apart Tim's "Summary" Of The Situation Becuadse I Found It lacking As Any Kind Of Explaination Or Attempt At Sincerity. That's Just My Opinion. 5. It Was That Post And Other Posts By Others That Led Certain Parties In Here To Attack Any And All Who Dared Speak Out Against EdgeNet. Please, Don't Take My Word For It, Look For Yourself. Twoblade Asked Civilly For Explaination From EdgeNet. Something Many Of Us Wanted. He's Asked Several Times. Has It Happened? Nope. Is It Going To? Nope. But You See He Got Made Fun Of, Belittled, And Attacked. The Only "Dogs" Here Seem To Be The Gestapo Going Around Trying To Discredit Anyone That Speaks Out About EdgeNet. And Where is Tim During All This? Mostly Silent. One Sentence Replies. He Let's Them Go Around Attacking Anyone. Look For Yourself. How Many Posts To Not Have Virus, ScottA, Or JeffH Somewhere In The Reply Thread? Then Go Back And Read The Original Message ANd Tell Me They Deserved To be Treated That Way For Asking Questions. No Way. 6. I Allowed Those Attacks On "innocent" People To Stir me And Fight Back At Them. Personally I Can Handle 5 People Attacking me. I Simply Don't Like Condecending People Who Think They Are better Than Others Or Who Attack Directly And Personally To Try And Intimidate. So I Tend To "Stick Up" For People being Treated That Way. True, No One Asked. But that Is Me. Those That Know me Know That. However, That Does Not Excuse My Actions These Arguments. Jack Is Right, This Isn't Serving Any Purpose Other Than That Purpose Those That Attack Individuals Wanted. Therefore I Apologize To My "Fellow" Artists For My Part in All This. If You Can, Understand i Was Honestly Acting On Good Intent And In Passion. If You Can't Understand That, Well, I Guess i May Be a Different Artist Than Some. Regardless, We Are Artists. And We Made This Place Great. I Do not Claim My Personal Art Is Anything Great, In Fact I Don't Think it Is. However, My Heart Is. And That's What Makes Me, Me. Hopefully Things Can Be Salvaged From All This And We Can All Move On. However, It Won't Be Here For Me. I'm Sure That's No Big Loss To Anyone. And That's Fine Because Honestly It's No Big Loss To Me. However, As a Community, It's a Deadly Blow That Has Been Dealt. I Just Don't Believe Tim Means Any Good For This Community. If He Did, In My Eyes, He Would Have Given Us More Insight And Answer. That's Just My Opinion. In Closing, Play Nice, Keep Doing Your 3D Thing, And Live Your Art. Peace

First it doesn't help that you come on in two different names then make false accusation that this fictitious Luna has been banned. Second if you have a grief with Edgenet, and alot of us do, then you can write Tim personally, instead of coming here and calling the members Nazis. You serve no purpose in doing that except cause opposition, anger and grief. I don't see members here going to Renderotica and PFO and causing trouble there. People who are looking for professionals and a site with serious artist will see this. You are only helping your so called enemy. Third, silent resistance can be your best protest and stay away from this site, but some of us will hang around because we have an interest in the art and not the politics. Run for political office it that's what you want. I'm holding my own and taking care of what I care about and that's not Edgenet, or Jack or Willow. Let their egos take care of themselves. I care for the art and the people here, including you. Your post haven't been deleted and you haven't been banned. This is promising. My judgments are based on the actions of all sides. The ones causing trouble are the ones coming here throwing expletives at the members who have chosen to stay. Slam Edgenet all you want. Slam the former admin. all you want, but leave the artist out of it. Rumors are running rampant about art being sold, post being deleted, and viruses are being spread. Your actions haven't helped as I've stated above. I've been here watching just about every post and none have been deleted except for the people who posted them, the written statement by Tim says our art is our copyrights and does not belong to the site, and I've gotten no viruses. Everyone has the freedom to chose what want they want. We can all agree to disagree can't we and still succeed? I'll be one of the first to leave when I can't have the freedom you have so enjoyed these last few days DRIV.

Grrrr Okay..... 1. I Dunno Who The hell You Are. You Show Up Out Of Nowhere With Some Messed Up Facts. 2. I Was Making An Honest Attempt To Apologize And You Want To Jump All Over me. 3. I Do Not Have Two Ficticious Names. I Don't Lie. Luna Was banned. If The Ban Was Lifted. Great. "He" Won't Be Back But There Was No Reason To Lie About It. I Never Said My Posts Were Deleted. 4. I Have Not ONCE ...Mind You ONCE Purposefully Attacked An Artist Here That Didn't Attack Another Artist First. READ THE POSTS AND DATES And Times And You Will See That This Is True Before You Open Your Trap With Inacurate Manure. Screw It....I'm Not Going To Argue With You....i Said I Was Done. Now How About Dropping It Huh? If You Care About Artists As Much As You Say. Thanks Peace

If the shoe fits wear it. I never thought of you as one of the dogs I told Jack to call off ;P Those who are, know who they are.

Bye sweetie. ScottA what a nice young man ;-)

"The Only "Dogs" Here Seem To Be The Gestapo Going Around Trying To Discredit Anyone That Speaks Out About EdgeNet." <<< Apology accepted. LOL.

You don't have to know me. I don't know you either and never seen your name around. Out of 20,000+ members you can bet you haven't met all of us. It doesn't matter! I read the post about you being Luna and DRIV in the same person. The people who even Jack says are to be trusted are the ones who disclaimed your ban complaint. I've already made my point, so I'll drop it. I haven't spoken before because I enjoy reading, viewing the arts and all the other things here, but I can't stay silent any longer. I've got nothing to lose speaking up nor am I afraid. I'm not attacking you or fighting with you. I have no personal beef with you. I said in the above post that your as important as any other artist here. I want the bickering to stop but it won't till people stop coming here making personal attacks. There isn't any need for that. No one has killed anyone's mama. If you come here and you think someone has deleted your post or made any personal attacks then it's time to pack off and leave. I would and I will if that should happen. I hope everyone finds a place that serves them, and no one will be punished for it either. It's not right to put artist of this community in such difficult spot. We're not staying to piss anyone off, so don't take it personally.

My word, you sure you are not one of the old Administrators? ;p PJF, DRIV, and erm whatever that other one is too, Luna? Your typing style is incredibly unique you know, gives you away every time :)

LOL, you are so very, very wrong on this one Bast. .

Ahhh, I see, you were using a quote from Driv/Luna's stuff. That Title case style is just eye catching :) No offense intended, even if you are her/him/it. I find his allusions that a Jewess could be part of the Gestapo equally hilarious and offensive all at once. Good laughs are hard to come by.

Trust me big time on this- PJF is not an Admin/Mod here L I know- he was my right hand man at SciFi-Art.

Hello people... It was SUCH a nice day here today where I live, I just HAD to get out and enjoy the terriffic weather. :) Cheers! Mike

The Landbridge to Annwfyn

© Liz Birdsong, 2000

Thanks All That Made My Point For Me Above. I Made An Honest Apology And You Holier Than Thou Types Decided To Turn It Into a Fiasco Of Condescension Like The Other Posts. I Wondered How Long Before You Dug Your Claws In Bast. And Before You Think You Are So Elite. If I Wanted My Typing Style To be Different trust me it would be. It's not that hard to do. There was a point I was making but you missed it completely. *Smile> That's Okay Though. I'm Sorry i Apparently Wasted My Breath On An Apology Here. It's Obvious By The Posts Above None Of You Want Peice. You Want A Target. Like You Claim Others Do. Well, As It Was Said By Bast. If The Show Fits. Wear It. Further, And Again, To Be Completely Redundant, Why Would I Lie About being Banned? For God's Sake. I Was On The Rotica Chat With At Least 3 Other People when I Was Laughing My Ass Off Cause I Was Waiting To Post a message And i Got a Screen That Said "This Account Has Been Banned". Would That I Had Saved It To Rub In Your Smug Little Face. Did You see the Screen? No You Did Not. Do I Have a Reason To Lie About It? No I Do Not. Have I Checked To See If The Ban Has Been Lifted As ScottA Requested? No I Have Not. Why? Because I Deleted The Cookie And Logged In On This Alias I Created Some Time Ago To Insure They Met My Request Of Removing My Stuff. Note, They Have Not, But That Is Another Subject. And Really, If I Can Be On This Name.....And It's Obvious WHo i Am....Why WOuld I Need To Delete This And Sign On As Luna? I Can be Luna Just Fine On Rotica. Different Cookies You Know. At Any Rate. Long Explaination For Something You Choose Not To Believe Anyway. After All, You Can't take An Honest Apology Without Picking It Apart And Making Fun Of it. And You Claim You Want Peace And The Community Mended? I Made An Effort. You Spit In My Face. Look Up The Word Hypocrite. I'm Sure Your Names Will Be There. Now, I'm Sure You Won't Let Any Of This Slide Either, Even Though I Have Tried To Explain In a Civil Manner. So Go Ahead. Keep On Keeping On And Proving What Kind Of people You Really Are. Good Day. BTW Bast. Never Seen Your Art, But That's a Nice Pic. Too Bad We Can't Get Along I Guess.

BTW....If The Person That DID Ban Luna Had Any Integrity They Would Admit It. ScottA Knows What Happened. He Even Asked For It To be Lifted. But That's Not Going To Happen I Am Guessing. It's Easier To Let me Look Like a Liar Than To Admit Someone Messed Up. So Be it.

LOL Oh Lord.....I Need Sleep....My Spelling Above Is Atrocious...EEK. Feel Free To make Fun Of that Too....

I did recognize you for the first time in this mudfight. I have not seen anything from you what I would concider to be helpful. But i was angered by most of your posts. Apology accepted.

If I wanted to fight I would of started calling you names. I'm blunt, but not mean. The information on the ban below says it all, but that's neither here nor there. What's done is done. --Jack Is Right, This Isn't Serving Any Purpose Other Than That Purpose Those That Attack Individuals Wanted. Therefore I Apologize To My "Fellow" Artists For My Part in All This-- To me that sounded like a back handed slap apology. Did you mean that the attacked people wanted you to attack them? Don't bother answering that. That's how I took it. Maybe it isn't how you intended. I'll take it as an apology for the sake of peace here. Accepted.

OK....we made some progress tonight...Driv has sincerely complimented Bast on her art work.....That's one small step for a poser.....one giant leap for Poserkind.... Now everybody go to a neutral corner.....and SIT there.....just wait till your father gets home! Scarab<-(doesnt have any kids of his own....dont worry...)

Landbridge to Annwfyn: The water is great! Reminds me when my father and I use to go fishing. And I'd see a small rowboat just drifting along. How'd you do that? Thanks!

Thank You Shay Smile Scarab....How Long Do I Have To Sit Here? Snicker

That picture is beautiful, what did you render it with? Chailynne

Lizzy, The way you've created the water in the foreground, how it's prefectly shallow, displaying that really good, then goes into dept is great! And the appearance of the distant water is superb. This IS really NICE water!! Did you use a certain software for making the plants? I recognize the blossoms in front. When my brother and I were little, we use to pop their unopened buds in our fingers. And they'd make that sound too! Great noise to new little ears..Not so good for moms garden tho.

Thank you all for your compliments :) It was so much joy for me, creating that little world I put up in the render. I am working now on laboriously porting it out to use in Poser, though of course, the lovely rendering of water and sky will be largely lost in Poser. Landbridge to Annwyfn was created and rendered in Animatek World Builder :) It does the BEST skys and waters out there, as far as ability to render depth such as you see. Version 3 is almost out now, and I am told will make the version 2 I did that work in look like child's play. If one gets the standalone version is a tiny bit more expensive than Bryce, but as you can see, well worth the difference. I went and purchased the Pro version, which has a plugin for Maya, Lightwave, 3d Studio Max, etc, but to be honest, I have not ever liked or used the plugin much. So had I it all to do over again, I would go with the cheaper and equally well equipped plain stand alone version. To learn more about World Builder, and see artwork of my fellow users that will just make you have to sit down and think a while, go to: www.animatek.com No one does it like the Russians, I swear to God. They put the rest of us to shame, when they sit down to code an art program ;P And it uses alot less resources than your average program too ;P

Thank You Bast!!

Thanks, Bast. That is right along the lines of a world I have in my mind right now. I think I need to check out their website more. :o)

LOL Bast, that's not the first time you've thought I might be one the 'old administrators'. We had a little spat some months ago when the store was being set up, back in the days when you were one of Jack's and Ed's, er, 'passionate' supporters. In that stuff you posted on your website about why you left Renderosity, I was amused to see my name mentioned in your correspondence with Traveler. You wondered if I was Willow! Then, as now, I was just little old me. I may be a miserable old bastard, but I'm my own miserable old bastard. ;-) Speaking of that spat, I rather think that time has proved me right on the subject of the commercialisation of the community...

Naw, I was a passionate supporter of ecommerce and a chance for artists to sell things, even for just a dollar or three, since ANYTHING sold is a chance to call oneself a pro, and put it on a resume, thereby bettering their chances to get real work in this field. I did not know the Dark Souls from the devil himself, just I do ecommerce visualization and front end design work.

My God.....has this turned to corner to....>gasp<....a constructive conversation? Scarab <-(wonders never cease for those of us who are childlike at heart)

In the end Scarab, we are all just artists, even those of us who come in from other fields such as pharmacy, business management, or coding. It seems, there is no soul so filled with passion, anxiety, darkness and light, as that of the soul of artists and scientists. And despite the fact the world insists on viewing both professions as being non-political beasts, if we sense that something is about to change to endanger the existence of that which we all love, we will all fight to our dying breath... but after a very short while, most of the artists and scientists begin to realize the sky did not fall, the world did not come to a screeching halt, poser still boots up most times on first try, Posette still looks like Barbie, and renders fine if you pull her legs just so ;P Tempests in a teapot. Nothing to seriously worry over.

I went and looked at the Animatek website. Wow! Umm... how hard is it to learn? This coming from someone who is still trying to figure out 3d in the first place but really wants to learn as much as she can. Those pictures there just blow me away.

For version 2, it has a STEEP learning curve. That being said to be steep by comparison of what you may be used to in Poser, or Bryce. However if you are used to 3d Studio Max, it is easier. The modeling is done largely with splines, and most of the libraries take a bit of coding knowledge to create ones own unique plant models, but it comes with whole greenhouses and forests and oceans of plants. It also comes with a vast collection of ready to use splines for land bases, and ready to modify and use scenes. That was version 2 :) The good news is this about version 3. It has an EASIER to use interface, no coding is necessary and now one can visually drag and drop a tree branch onto a tree truck, etc. The interface is more truly like 3d studio max, at it's depth, that is in how it functions, not just in choice of icons, then the disappointment to learn those icons did something different. I am told the learning curve will be MUCH easier on version 3. Now if I understood Alexander and his team correctly in some of their posts, if one buys in on version 2 at this late date, the upgrade to version 3 is free. But be sure to confirm that first, ok? One more thing bout those boys, they are the friendliest nicest guys I have ever met. If you need help, they move sooooo fast to help, no matter how silly what you are asking on their forums may sound, or by email if you email. Once I dropped my plant library cd in the floor, and rolled over it with my chair and broke it :( I almost wept. I could just imagine how much it would cost me to pay to get another, beings as how the whole kit and kaboodle cost me around 800.00 (pro version). And shipping costs from Russia, too... mother of god. Ok so I send Alexander an email asking to be told how to get a replacement, and sending my registration information, and the man writes back asking for a snail mail addy, I send that, then inside less than 4 days I got the cd, packed up out of Russia and sent to me :) No charge, not even for shipping. Bless them. The user base is small on their forums. Unlike here, no one speaks harshly, most ask a question, most get in, get out, no one just converses for hours on end and hangs out. But I suppose production deadlines prohibit. However when one posts one always gets a response, usually several, answering ones query. This program has more in common with 3d Studio Max, and Lightwave btw, than it has in common with say Bryce. It is NOT pretty to look at, no artistry in the interface, Kai Krause was not on the GUI team ;P But nothing beats it, in my opinion :)

Scarab I Will Only Say That The Original Intent Of The Thread Was, In Fact, A Constructive Attempt To Apologize For My Part. Not That Everyone Took It That Way, But, Be That As It May, It Was. The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions

Sounds like it would be over my head at this point, but definitely something to keep in mind as I learn more. Thanks for the summary, Bast. I really appreciate it. :o)