wdupre,

Nor do i. I have no respect/dont care for snobs, but i have great respect for self advertisement.

Let me name one example:

Ive recently got accepted into Expos with a couple of images. Expos is read by some of the major studios/advertisers in the industry, and ive already recieved two job offers thanx to that mag, and its not even released yet.
Free, excellent advertisement, and a LOT of money involved for me.

Now, Bryce was allowed to use for the contributions for Expos, Poser or similar software (DAZstudio), was not!

So i figure, the next time i want to send stuff in for Expos or anything similar, i can basically go f..k myself, since DAZstudio or anything with Poser is integrated into Bryce and it has been ruled out as well........Thank you!

This example is just one way to advertise what i do for customers, but the two jobs combined, will make me more than half of a years pay from my regular job, in about a month of free time work!

Perhaps you want to turn down stuff like this for an easier way to import Poser characters into Bryce, i personally dont. To much money involved.

I am doing art for myself mainly, but i also work with it on freelance bases, and to be able to advertise in such mags are priceless.

For me personally, integration with a Poser-like application would force me to stop using Bryce, an app i love and are perfectly comfortable with, and move on to something else if i want to be able to send images in for something like Expos
Face the facts. If Bryce will be connected with anything that contains Poser characters, it wont matter what version youre using.

ok fine some people will be happy about this some won't, frankly I want there to be a bryce 6 and if it easily imports external figures that will be awsome but there was no future for bryce at Corel and there would be no future for bryce otherwise, so sorry you are unhappy. and sorry you have such a hard time with magazines that share a smallminded attitude. a piece of art should be judged on its personal merits and if they want to limit it from outside models thats fine but if you dont use outside models then they should accept the illustration. I dont see what difference there is between this and any other program that can import poser models. right now there are plugins for Cinema 4d, Lightwave, and 3ds max that will import poser figure fully boned, will they reject those programs too now?

Having been one of the voices of cautious optimism, I have to say that the following from the DAZ team, as quoted above in post 29, gives me some cause for concern: "DAZ is about to begin development on version six of Bryce and we'd like your input. While we will only be to focus on a few keys issues in order to get a new version out in a timely manner (as a new version is quite over due)..." Excuse me? They seem to be putting the cart before the horse. The only appropriate time for the release of a new version is - when there's something new! "One of the primary issues of development for Bryce 6 will be that of importing DAZ content into Bryce seamlessly. We'd also like to know what other simple little fixes or changes you'd really like to see implemented." Sorry, a proper import routine and some other "simple little fixes or changes" do not add up to a new version. Yes, we Brycers are overdue a new version. A box with the letters d, a, z and the number 6 on it does not deliver that. I mentioned my concerns about DAZ's marketing in the other thread. On face value, this seems to fit right in. Take something everybody's already purchased, tweak it a bit and then sell it to them again. It's worked very well in the Poser user base - will it be the same for Brycers?

Finally! Thanks, PJF. You've listened and learned. This all is only a strategy to sell more Poser models and open the market widely for old and new Bryce users. As I said before: what kind of interest could DAZ have to develop Bryce? Answer: only to widen the market of what they already do. Sell Poser models. Do you really thing this is the right direction to "develope" Bryce? J.

Currently getting Poser figures into bryce is like getting a camel through a keyhole ... possible but it takes serious finessing. If daz can smooth over that pothole it will open up a new user base. I think that DAZ picked up Bryce because more poser users are wanting full environments, something that Poser does not do natively and that poser5 implements errr ... badly. And yeah, not all Bryce users want or need Poser content, but frankly at this point any corporate backing for Bryce is better than none at all, no? I certainly hope they don't mess with the interface .. I've always found Bryce to be the easist most intuitive program of all my 3d apps. (and I've been using it since version 3 or so)

Well, as far as saving bryce from being completely doomed this is a big step right? As for complaints about bryce becomming a new poser I'd say we just tell Daz what we want in the new version of bryce!

wdupre, The reason they dont accept pre-made models, is because you havent made them yourself. It can also be a copyright issue. "Borrow" a model, submit to the mag, the mag gets sued by the models original creator. The difference between Poser, DAZstudio and Cinema 4d, Lightwave, 3ds max, is that the latter doesnt have Poser integrated and that you can actually model in them. Bryce also have a modeler that allow you to make your own models. This is something you should know already. DAZstudio is basically a drag&drop application, and you want that crap integrated with Bryce? Aahh, what do i care, go ahead and build DAZstudio 2 then...

Lyrra: "Currently getting Poser figures into bryce is like getting a camel through a keyhole " Come on, this is laughable. It's some work if you do it the first time and if you're an newbie - but after that it's no problem to import Poser meshes into Bryce. And that's your problem - you want an application which does everything for you on fgertip. This is the end of creativity - go and buy some Poser models and render them in 2 minutes in your Poser-ized software. Go and buy yourself some Barbie dolls. J.

derjimi, my concerns about DAZ predated any of this. I haven't really learned anything from listening to the exchanges here except that some people have various concerns, some rather frivolous, that they feel strongly about. Even if Bryce is now to be a conduit for the distribution of "Poser models" (as you keep mistakenly referring to DAZ content), that doesn't necessarily mean that Bryce will become useless to we current users. DAZ will have to ensure Bryce is something people wish to import their content into. In order for this to work as a DAZ content promoter, Bryce will have to improve in and of itself. There is a distinct possibility that the engine that drives the DAZ cash machine will power Bryce onto bigger and better things. I think it all depends on whether DAZ realises that Bryce and its user base are not like Poser and its user base; and should be dealt with accordingly.

"I think it all depends on whether DAZ realises that Bryce and its user base are not like Poser and its user base; and should be dealt with accordingly." --- Let's pray for that. But honestly - I don't believe in that. J.

Rochr, as a modeler I fully understand what the difference is. but you are jumping to a lot of conclusions based on very little information, currently all they are offering other then the program itself is a new plug-in. for future versions who knows, but to cut yourself off from DAZ becouse you are afraid of what they might do only gives you no oppertunity to be heard by them.

Well, ive asked them the same question about a merge in every thread by now, and for some reason no one is willing to answer it. I find it odd... wdupre, as ive said before, i really hope im wrong about this, but i want to see some result before they get any support from me. The very FIRST thing they shouldve done, is to release a bugfix for the well known errors. A Poser plugin is just BS!

"Poser is forbidden in almost all of the serious CG-competitions"

UHH..NO i regularly competed in the character
animation sessions over at CGtalk.com using poser figures
these were NOT human modelbuilding contests but
pure animation competitions where the moderator
will name a scenario(man hailing cab etc.)
and you would have to animate it with anypackage
you chose. BTW I use both Cinema4DXland Lightwaves Modeling toolset for anyone to call bryce a modeling tool is frankly laughable :-)

these are the only competions i consider "serious"
where your actual skill as animator is tested
not your ability to choose and tweak presets
from a program library

Message edited on: 06/23/2004 17:08

What's next!?!? Bryce X being sold at Toys'r'us?

Just in case you haven't seen this, it was posted by Cris Palomino at DAZ. "RochR. I am not completely sure what the plans are for Bryce other than to improve it and make it easy to go from DAZ|Studio and DAZ|Bryce. To me, this is in the same way that the Adobe programs work with each other. I can easily flow between Photoshop and Illustrator. It does not make Photoshop Illustrator, or Illustrator Photoshop. It also does not preclude my working between Photoshop and Painter or Illustrator and Cinema 4D. The ability to work within and between programs is always advantageous as far as I'm concerned. Cris" Coldrake

Attached Link: http://www.subspacegraphics.com/Traffic.jpg

That may be so with animations, but not with stills.
Or are still images not serious?

As for modeling in Bryce, go ahead a laugh. I personally dont have any problems modeling in Bryce, so yeah, its also a modeler as far as i know it. Nothing as advanced like the rest, but it works well.

So, i choose and tweak presets from a model library...interesting. Please let me know if you find any of my models out there. Last time i looked, i made everything from scratch with booleans. Apart from the ones made from scratch in Cinema4D, i need to practice.

Need proof...? Heres one. Cinema4D for the balcony on the left, Bryce booleans for the rest.

aahh, finally an answer. Thanx coldrake. :)

Um rochr I dont mean to be getting on your case, but they got the software less then a week ago, bug fixes take some time, the import plugin by comparison was a lot easier and something that a lot of people have been asking for for a long time. if you are really concerned about bug fixes I would hope that you will adress them to Daz tech support, I wouldnt guarantee that daz will get them fixed right away but Corel had bryce for how long, and didnt fix them?

Welcome. :) Coldrake

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=Lyrra

Some folks are just never happy. 8( I think this is the best thing that could have happened to Bryce. DAZ have asked us, the Bryce users, to tell them what we want to see in Bryce 6 and I think they will listen to our input, 'cos if they don't they will loose out on a lot of potential customers. Bryce was basically dead in the water, Corel would have quite happily let it sink under and die. This looks like the perfect or nearly perfect way for Bryce to survive and to achieve what it is truely capable of. I'm really happy and at this time I don't really care if others are not, it all depends on whether you still want to be able to use Bryce for a few more years or not. 8) Catlin

wdupre, What i think of Corel is known by most people in this community. Not only for cancelling Bryce 6, but also for the lack of support. Its going to be interesting to see how DAZ behave. As for the bugs in Bryce, EVERYONE knows about them and has been doing so for a couple of years now. I realize it can take time to fix errors, but that shouldve been the first thing to release, and its far more important than any Poser plugin. With that said, ill just stop bichinabout this now. People are obviously getting bored. :)

Hell, I leave forum for two days and then something like this happens... @Rochr: Expose accepted Poser figures. I know, I submitted two pics with them. Maybe that's why they weren't chosen. ;-) @wdupre: since Bryce hasn't supported plugins till now, it's not such an easy job to add one, as far as I know. @Lyrra: addding Poser figures to Bryce is easy. Not even that time consuming, unless you want to tweak and change every material. And then it takes about an hour or two. I don't know what will happen with Bryce at DAZ. Maybe it will end like Vue/Poser system as Chris Palomino implies. Maybe it won't. But I do wonder whether they will include Doc Mojo or Scott Richardson in the project... I think they can offer something. BTW, I'm getting Cinema 4D 8.5 soon. So I may succumb to the dark side.

Rochr, the ability to import Daz content may be of no consequence to you but it is to a lot of others.. and it in no way stops you from doing whatever you want in Bryce just like you always have. In other words it has not harmed you and has helped others, what's the down side? Yes there are bugs.. and yes every one knows they are there and that Corel could have cared less, but no matter who bought the software it is going to take time to address them, AND Daz has asked the community to tell them what they would like to see done first... In the mean time I now have a Bryce that allows me to do more and you to do no less while we wait. Besides, now there is some hope for the program, yesterday there wasn't any;-). Like I said I just do not see the down side.

Erlik, Too bad you didnt make in in. Would love to see more Brycers in there. Actually, when i posted my entries, Poser really wasnt allowed, and not even in the list. There was a question about Bryce as well, but since it didnt contain any pre-made models, they accepted it. Laurie S, As said in above post, im out of this discussion and have nothing further to add. Think ive repeated myself enough... Ill just wait and see what DAZ releases, and make my choice then.

Rochr, please don't feel obliged to stop expressing your opinions. One sad aspect I've noted about the (visible and vocal) Poser user base is that they tend to shout down voices of dissent. I learned some time ago that it was a pointless exercise pointing out that DAZ was selling them the same thing again and again. This is still the Renderosity Bryce forum. Say what you think - and bollocks to those that don't like it.

PJF I couldnt agree more, I certainly dont intend on shouting anyone down, and without discussion nothing gets accomplished. so I have no problem whith what others say but if it seems to be just to trash something before its even out of the gate I have to question that and try to find out the motivation for it. I certainly didnt intend to bully anyone just find out where the differences of opinion come from. PS erlic I didnt say it was easy to create plugins, but they do exist and can be done if you have the source code or an SKD, if you look in your bryce folder you will see that there are a number of import and export plugins.

"Ive recently got accepted into Expos with a couple of images. Expos is read by some of the major studios/advertisers in the industry, and ive already recieved two job offers thanx to that mag, and its not even released yet. Free, excellent advertisement, and a LOT of money involved for me." One of my 3ds images was supposedly "considered" for Exp2, but never made the final cut. Congratulations in a big way. That's like the holy grail for most aspiring 3D professionals. Aside from landing a job at Pixar or ILM or course. Kudos!

I rushed over here to the Bryce forum thinking I could witness the "dancing in the street after the Berlin Wall had been torn down". I'm surprised to hear so many people complaining "but they're destroying my grafitti!" While I know that there are a lot of people who do some Amazing modeling in Bryce and some Amazing abstract images that won't benefit from Daz objects, I doubt that the new Bryce will keep you from doing that. The anti-Daz contingent: Is it mostly new modeling tools you want? I can understand wanting them. Sorry there isn't more joy over here as I thought. Personally I had to give up on Bryce because of it's limitations and creating environments (as beautiful as they were) devoid of people just wasn't working for my needs. Hopefully I might be able to revive my presence here. Best of luck to us all.

I thought everyone wanted Bryce to grow and hopefully gain respect in the 3d community? If this new change turns out the way I am thinking its going to happen, then it will kill Bryce's chance to ever seperate itself from poser (which like rudy said, CG pros confuse the two softwares all the time). It has been said time and time again in this thread, but it must be repeated...just because Bryce is moving, doesnt mean its for the better! listen to Rudy, he knows what he is talking about. If Bryce permanently associates itself with poser (which Daz is obviously associated with even though their aren't connected with Curious Labs) then it will be a sad day for Bryce. and PJF had even a better point. Why are they going to release a new version with very few improvements??? whats the point of that? If they are really interesting in keeping Bryce's greastest features and improving its biggest faults then it needs to spend lots of time getting feedback and rebuilding the Bryce code from the ground up. Otherwise, I feel this change will only set Bryce back.

Man, negativity reigns supreme over here. I hear what you guys are worried about re: the "hobbyist" label . But from where I sit Bryce was never going to stand toe-to-toe against Maya, Lightwave, or SoftImage etc. It has never had the control. You want it to. I wanted it to but for the price you still get a lot of power. I know you know because you're so passionately wanting to defend it from corruption. I still believe that you (me/we) can be a part of the solution and this new-Bryce is just at the beginning. Give it a chance. If your worst fears are realized maybe the good news is you'll find a better interface.

"Man, negativity reigns supreme over here." Man you said it - I'd expect this from Poser users. What is the U.S.Government doing a world wide H.A.R.P. test to see how angry they can get people all over the world? I think this is potentially very good news - just a couple days ago there was a discussion/series of discussions righr cheer on this forum about how nice it would be if figures were more easily animatable in Bryce. who bewtter to accomplish this goal than the company who makes a good majority of said figures (At least the good ones). As "Odd Ball" said to "Moyerarty"(sp?) in "Kelly's Heros", "none of them negative vibrations ,Morearty(sp?)"

@Bikermouse-thier solution is still not the best for animating in bryce.They have only said "seamless integration",not "Full posability" as we all talked about.The way they worded it,and from some of thier own comments,they still want you to use DS for the scene layout(as in the example of the pic they showed with the beta plug-in),thus making you still animate in DS,it is just seamless and easy to import(the scene from DS).Still no posing within the program(at least how they worded it).I go off on this and the whole fbx or lack there of support in my bad times thread.Although it could turn out good.I still think those fetures are retarded.I never remember Mel3d complaining about the bad poser/bryce integration-wouldnt they be an expert on that sorta thing,the images suggest there is no problem at all.Maybe just poor users.I still say modeling tools,and better renderer first,then all that other non essential stuff.

If, as I understand, they are still rounding up programmers for Bryce . . . (HEY DAZ - over here - I'll do it !!!) . . . you're prob'ly just hearing sales talk. I think that when they get a handle on what thet bit off they'll have to chew on it a while before they actually swallow anything. That Bryce is going to be developed further at all is a good thing - we might have to put up with some junky ideas before the reality comes about but I think in the end, they will either make Bryce better or pass it on to other hands. In the meantime Bryce still lives, and as such all things are possible. - TJ

I dunno takes me about 8 minutes to import and texture a poser fig pretty simple really,I hope they actually ADD to bryce..not just make it easier to import daz software.Whats done is done,nothing we can do about it now,except blabber on about how much we like or dislike it.

"I thought everyone wanted Bryce to grow and hopefully gain respect in the 3d community?" --- Sure we want. That's why we are complaining. --- Lyrra, sorry if I attacked you, it wasn't meant personal. Sure, there are some great Poser artists. But that's mostly not Poser's archievment but the ability of the creator to do fantastic postwork.

Bikermouse is right, they bit off way more than they probably thought.Its good that the funds are there to enhance bryce,its just when that money goes twords that new functionality.I still say what they have said(bug fixes and stuff) should be done but as a bryce 5.5 update(and free too).There is no reason to go to version 6, until it can truely be called that.

Wohoooooo is all I can saay...Anything to help Bryce will help us all...I hated Poser5 when it came out and sometimes I still do but now I am starting to like it so I say anything that will help Bryce I say go for it...

Message edited on: 06/24/2004 01:19

Lol...I had almost forgotten what Moderating a "Buzz" in the community was like. ;o) Theories, conjecture, a little controversey, along with hops and wishes. Isn't it great to have a spotlight back on OUR Program!? :oD Good or bad, it IS time for progress. I have faith in DAZ, and I have faith that we as users will both love any new changes, and probably hate any new changes, lol. Let the discussions rage. In the end we ALL know all we can do is wait and watch to see what EXACTLY happens with our Bryce. (we've gotten pretty good at waiting) Then, we will make our decisions. I can't wait. ;oD AgentSmith Bryce Moderator

In the END it is everybodies choice to pursue what ever program they want too...I really think that DAZ will listen to a point to us the community and they will be doing what we know they will DS/Bryce6.... OK think about it folks... Bryce was DEAD in the hands of COREL... DAZ has brought new life into Bryce... Go to DAZ and let your CONCERNS be known,That is the way we will get what we NEED in the Future Versions of BRYCE... OR use Bryce5,4,3...But you will SWITCH in the end because you will see all the Wonderful Art and Animations being done with DSBryce.... I want to betatest so bad ...But there are way better then me out there so I will plod forward with my Plans... Hey think of it this way...Poser...Ah what or who is that...?

deci6el wrote: "I rushed over here to the Bryce forum thinking I could witness the "dancing in the street after the Berlin Wall had been torn down". I'm surprised to hear so many people complaining "but they're destroying my grafitti!"" I think, to give due credence to some of the concerns expressed here, a more accurate analogy from that region might be: Here's the good news: we've been liberated from the Nazis. Here's the bad news: we've been liberated by the Soviets. In words not invoking Godwin's law, some people are concerned that Bryce won't be any better off under DAZ than it was under Corel. You might not agree with that, but I don't think their views should be dismissed as mere 'graffiti'.

Well I got the plugin and..................I think I'll be using Grouper until it's past the beta version.
You know how Grouper lets you select all the obj's that use the same texture and gives them their proper names, grouping them at the same time, well unfortunately the new plugin doesn't and the names it does give the obj's is the full directory, which means it's really hard to know what you are selecting when you click until it's selected.
Maybe I was hoping for too much since they really haven't had it long enough to make any major updates but one of the selling points of the plugin was that it would retain the transparency information, which I thought was great, but it didn't or it did, but not for all the transparencies.
I guess I should go test it some more to see what exactly it can do although I'm no longer as excited as I was last night.

Catlin

There are two good utilities available for helping you in Bryce with content made for Poser, MetalFixer and Grouper. Unfortunately....both PC only which leaves us on the Mac to fend for ourselves...or did...until Turbo Importer. So that, for me, is great. Cris

Yes the plugin is great for importing whole scenes but the length of the names is so long that the drop down box cannot give the whole name and all you can see is c:/runtime/etc. So for some I guess it will be wonderful I'm just feeling a little disappointed which is probably my own fault for wishing too high. Then again life is never easy and the difficulty in getting Poser figures into Bryce probably makes for better art work, ie. suffering for your art. lol 8) Catlin

Heh, well, the importer is still PC only, too...though Mac is coming soon. :) So I didn't know about the drop down. Please start a thread in the DAZ Bryce forum with what you've found and email a copy to tech@daz3d.com so they can take note of this. I can see where this would be cumbersome. Thanks, Cris

No probs Cris, my only wish is for this to work flawlessly, 'cos the ability to import entire scenes from Poser to Bryce has been big on my wishlist for quite some time. 8) Catlin

I wish DAZ all the luck in the world. From watching recent world events I realize now how anger and mistrust can manipulate public opinion and so, perhaps in the right hands all the venting we have been doing will lead to something positive ... positive ... positive...

Hey, catlin are you gonna give DAZ your notes on the plugin? It IS a beta plugin, and they could use any info on improving it. I know that you (and others) could give great notes. If you aren't registered for DAZ, I could pass along your notes? AgentSmith

points at AS while nodding Yep, what he said.

This forum at Rendo could be THE place DAZ gets the best info for a new Bryce. (or at least, the best Bryce people) I'm not gonna pass that up after years of waiting for a new Bryce! ;o) AS