heyas; this is kinda sorta not quite it. didn't mess with rays and all that, just standard vue atmosphere stuff. i learned a lot, though! i learned you can fake that cloud edge flare very very nicely if you edit the cloud material's colours. most are a greyscale gradient. for the dark colours on these, i put in a deep red, and then on some i added in a bit of yellow-orange striping before the lighter grey/white. i just wish there were an easy, interactive way to adjust the ratio of the sizes of the clouds and spaces. also, the far clouds near the horizon were too dark and not washing out, so i put on some haze. that had the added effect of brightening up the horizon, too. which isn't what i meant to do. i wish vue could remember that the sun is attatched to the camera angle when it saves an atmosphere. oh, and also that it would save a jpg when i choose 'jpg' as the 'save image as' type. ::sigh::

I can't see the image yet, so I'll comment on that sometime later. But there is this... ** oh, and also that it would save a jpg when i choose 'jpg' as the 'save image as' type. ::sigh:: ** You have to catch Vue for this immediately. When you first choose save picture, click the drop-down for file-types right there and select JPG. Then show Vue where you want the image saved and what name you want to give it. Make sure to append the name with .JPG and also click the drop-down on this screen, too, selecting JPG. Then, it will save as JPG at last, asking you what compression level you want for it. Talk about finnicky...but at least it can get there. :)

Bloodsong, that's gorgeous, really. I've been doing the opposite, and concentrating on the rays and the sun, since atmospheres are still a weak point for me. I have had a little success so far, but I probably won't want to show anything until close to "deadline" time. I'n completely at a loss as to how to go about doing the clouds, though. Varian, just hang in there, man...I'm gonna throw together a quick little "project" page to put these pictures on, assuming no one has a problem with that. Hopefully that will be done later today, or tonight. I suppose I should have been thinking ahead and have done it already. :P by the way, Varian, even though all you see is an icon, what happens if you click on the picture and choose, "save picture as"? Will it download the icon or the picture? Also, thanks for the tip about jpeg-ing. I tried to save a jpg once out of Vue, after already having saved it as .bmp, and I had simply chosen it from the drop down, and then was asked if I wanted to overwrite. I just figured that feature didn't work or had a bug. Cheers, Mike

Vue has many of its own preferences, like BMP, and even with the option to change it, the program frequently will protest about doing that. It's just one of its little quirks. :) The image above gives this URL as the image location: http://www.renderosity.com/photos/Message199980.jpg But if I attempt to view or save from that location, the script redirects me to here: http://www.renderosity.com/bandwidth.gif This "bandwidth.gif" is the logo that displays all over this place, and I mean all over. Although I appreciate what you're doing, Mike, since there is only Tesign and myself around here with the problem, I wouldn't worry about trying to duplicate every image that gets posted. The challenge-in-progress stuff is probably fine to just let ride, for instance. I don't need to be reminded of how talented Bloodsong is or how his image is going to blow mine out of the water. Time enough to find that out when he posts his final. ;)

Varian, Whew.... I was sweating for a minute there. I had already read all of it, but I went and read Bloodsong's image restrictions. Evidently, Bloodsong's quite adament concerning the redistribution and wht not of pictures. I don't know if that only applies to finished images, or not, but I'd feel much safer not pushing the issue without EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT! You should see what you're missing though... it's quite a good sky and well beyond what I've been able to achieve so far. But, for all I lack in knowledge about web page construction, I make up in being able to upload via FTP, and if given permission to do so, trust me when I say it's no big deal at all. I even have the very simple page for it already created, and adding to it is quite easy. I just feel so bad that you can't see what we post here, and even through that you still hang out with us. :) Mike

.....and that gif logo is 'ugly'...LOL! Tesign

Bloodsong, You've done a wonderful job. I'm in total awe and I'm sorry that some of the people on the list can't see the image. Claire

heyas; what image restrictions? on my site? silly mike! you can go ahead and nab the vc images and do whatever you wanna do with 'em. i mean... this ain't my site, ya know. i could put em up at my site and do the link thing and... all that, but i'm too lazy. :) i could always post the atm file, though.

Cool! I threw this together really quickly, but I want to work on a much better version of it...the web page, that is... I think it would be a cool idea to have a running "documentary" of this situation, and I really would like to have opinions as to the formatting of it. Meanwhile, my primitive attempt is here: http://www.jacksonville.net/~mowenj/vuechallenge.htm :) Mike PS Hey, bloodsong, lazines is cool too...God knows I have plenty of that! What's "atm"? Automatic Teller Machine?...that's all I know it as. ;)

heyas; speaking of lazy... put the http stuff in the 'link' slot below your message, so i can just click on it, instead of having to copy and paste it into my browser, wouldya!? ;D okay, i did a new sky today, a bit more logically. one step at a time. did the sun and light first, then the sky colours.... btw, isn't 'sun pulls down sky colours' supposed to make the sky colours form a ring around the sun? mine keep missing :/ then messed with clouds. here is a big hint: cirrus clouds! in the 'other clouds' there's a buncha coloured cirrus clouds. these are the red/orange ones. there's 3 or 4 layers of 'em. i still can't get them to clump when and where i want 'em too, but this is closer. oh, and atm in vue as an 'atm'osphere file. ;)

hey... there ain't nothin at this page but me and my pic! ;D i thought YOUR stuff was there! heehe! you gonna put the sky to duplicate pic on there, too?

heyas; them cirrus are really more photographic quality than the others! (yes, i'm still here! no, i don't have a life.) oh, should we make a standard size for the pics? i think these are a tad big, but thought the 320 would be too small. but that might be better, huh? i like the sky challenges cuz... they're easy to do in a bit of free time in the evening, and don't take TOO much brainpower. been busy on a project and haven't had energy to do any real 3d art stuff. these are relaxing, actually. :)

oh, and i almost forgot... (yes, i'm STILL here!) remember when i put on the haze, and it lightened the horizon too much? this time, i tried... what is it? 'fog in the sky'? it's on the sky gradient tab, i think. it seemed to do the atmospheric perspective thing on the sky without ligtening the ground plane. cool. okay, shutting up now.

I KNEW it was only a matter of time before someone asked me if I would include the "idea" image of this project along with the results. Doh. Well yes, good idea; my only defense is that I'm still learning! K,so tomorrow it'll all be fixed...for now I'm going to bed........nighty night! :) Me

Wow...wowie! Okay, I've now been reminded of how talented Bloodsong is and etc. ;) ** btw, isn't 'sun pulls down sky colours' supposed to make the sky colours form a ring around the sun? mine keep missing :/ ** I'm not sure about forming a ring..."sun pulls sky colors down" is, I think, supposed to wash the colors out nearer the sun. Or tint them more towards the sun's color, whatever color that is set for. Usually it's white (for typical daytime), hence it usually has a washing-out effect. At least, that's how it's seemed to work to me...probably something in the manual about it, LOL! ** then messed with clouds. here is a big hint: cirrus clouds! in the 'other clouds' there's a buncha coloured cirrus clouds. these are the red/orange ones. there's 3 or 4 layers of 'em. i still can't get them to clump when and where i want 'em too, but this is closer. ** Your colors are awesome, working wonderfully towards following the photo. I wonder if you'll be able to get those yellow-lined highlights when moving the sun into the picture? Guess I'll have to wait to see. :) Bill's right, bandwidth.gif is UGLY, especially when used 6-7 times on a page! LOL! Mike... ATM = atmosphere MAT = material VOB = object CLR = color map VUE = scene file and uh...offhand, I forget what the functions format is. :)

naaaah.... the sun bends the gradient into an arc. that's how they get those rainbow things in the sky. but mine wouldn't center around my sun, it kept trying to center on the horizon. then i pulled the gradient up from the horizon, and it was bent on top and straight on the bottom. very odd. whaddya mean, when i put the sun in the picture? it is in there. um, sorta. well, no, i had it visible, but i turned it back off, cuz it looked silly. (psst, mike, i'll trade ya my atm for some of those rays you made! ;) ) you want gold edges, too? yeesh. though it does kinda look like the sun is shining up on the undersides of these.

Attached Link: http://www.1avenue.com/roomwithavue/

Hm...the sun *is* there? Must be time for me to clean the monitor again. I thought those rainbow things were created through a different process. I haven't looked at them for a very long time, so I guess I've forgotten whatever it was I learned about 'em. Y'know what you need for the sun, to improve its appearance? Silverbranch's sun flare material. It's the only thing I know of that can help Vue's sun look more like Terragen's. If you're subscribed to the RWAV list... http://www.egroups.com/group/vuedesprit/ ...you can pick it up in the Files area there. Oh, wait a second. I just remembered it's available online now, at the RWAV website: http://www.1avenue.com/roomwithavue/

I decided I'd try to dupe the water first and then go for the sky. Here's what I get swiping the furrows function from the sand furrows material and applying it to the channel water with the gain turned up. What do y'all think? Oh and Varian thanks for the tip on jpg saving; that oughtta save me some disk space! Canary

To me it looks very good. I think almost identical to the ocean in the challenge picture.

Mary, Are you talking about "Accelerating Repeat 3 T"? How much did you have to up the gain? I can't seem to get anything like this. By the way, excellent job on the water! Cheers, Mike

Attached Link: http://www.jacksonville.net/~mowenj/vuechallenge.htm

Hi, I have updated the site slightly, to show Mary's water example, and I've added the "base" picture as well as made the pictures a little smaller. It's no landmark achievement in web design (to say the LEAST!), but it works. :) Hopefully I'll come up with a better idea of how to portray all of this soon, before it has a chance to get out of hand, but if anyone has any suggestions, or wants to design a template for it, by all means, feel free! I'm not likely to be around much today. I'm going fishing, and gonna be FAR away from any PC's. That is, if my fishing buddy doesn't wimp out on me like he did the last time, LOL.

Mary, that water looks wonderful! Please share the MAT for it. nudge wink nudge ;) (Thanks for helping me see the image, Mike!) :)

Yeah I too would LOVE to know the specifics behind that water. I've not been able to get anything close to that, although I DID learn quite a bit about the functions-- I think-- I at least learned more about the power they have. Whether I was barking up the wrong tree or not I don't know, but it was worth it if for nothing other than that. Cheers, Mike PS No problem Varian! I have a busy day today, but tonight I think I'm gonna come up with a better format for the page for those pics...possibly a multi-row-column frame thingie setup, and smaller pictures.

Oops, I meant "table" not frame...I always get them backwards.

Ok guys I'm posting how to do the water in a new thread...it's SO easy I'm not posting the material until after you try my instructions! ;) Mary

Cool, Mary... I see it's not there yet, and I have to git meself to work now... I'll be looking forward to trying it out tonight! :) Thanks, Mike

heyas; well, i tried using the sun flare thing. of course, it's in front of the clouds because... well, the clouds are in the sky. so i put on a cloud plane and copied the cirrus cloud material to it. and it sucked! it was all hard-edged and gritty and icky. and the flare doesn't really have rays like that. oh, and i tried messing withe the cloud colours to get the edges golden, but i couldn't seem to do THAT, either. (i did get the water, though, after figuring out how to get the waves to go in the right direction!)

BL I haven't tried this yet, but what about doing a variable trans on a cone with a stripey function and pointing the fat end straight at the camera? I've gotten some good effects by attacking my camera--things like putting a water ball around it for an underwater scene, instead of around my objects. So when I have time I'm going to try the cone thing for the rays. I tried multiple cloud layers with different funky materials and it looked simply horrible, btw. So I haven't been totally slacking on it! MC

I'm starting to wonder if it even IS possible to duplicate a really complex sky nearly perfectly. Or is it just that Vue will do as it sees fit, to the best of its' ability, but not allow for COMPLETE control over what you want. When it comes to clouds, that is. I can NOT for tyhe life of me get clouds to arrange themselves the way I want. Hmmm....

heyas; me either, mike. it's like... well, if you want them to look just SO, in just a particular spot... you'll probably have to paint your own trans/bump/texture maps. ya know? i tried stealing some clouds from terragen. i rendered looking straight up and then turned the clouds into some colour/trans maps. they didn't turn out so well, though. ::sigh::

Okay, it's not perfect, but it's as perfect as I'm going to make it, LOL. This has 2 cloud planes with coriolis cloud material mapped on them and color-changed to a red-yellow color map. One plane is higher than the other. Then I clustered a bunch of point lights in front of the sun so it would have that hot-spot. I tried mapping a cloud plane with a radial striped transparency function, and it looked a lot like a radial striped trans function. Sigh. I also tried throwing rocks and terrains around in the sky with cloud materials on them and they don't show up. So, imperfect, but I had fun doing it and learned a whole bunch about atmospheres & functions. Mary

Hey Mary, It's a cool looking sky nonetheless :-) At least you tackled it - which is more than I can say - and learned lots in the process. I'm going to have to give it a go when I have some time. Claire

Yes, I agree. This was by far NOT an easy project. I myself have yet to achieve anything I want to show, but nevertheless I have learned from it. Anyway, we still have 6 days left..... Great attempt, Mary-- though those clouds don't look like the picture in shape, in color they're pretty good. So we all had fun and learned from it, right? Well I know I did, but like I said, we still have a little time left. Thanks all for trying so hard, and for helping to further the Vue knowledge....this whole thing has forced me to pish Vue past anything I had had yet to try. How about you? Cheers :) Mike

heyas; quite stunning, mary! :) terrains won't render with fuzzy materials. it's a hard fact of life. :) (um, i mean a fuzzy fact of life...)

Well, for what it's worth, here's what I had come up with before I gave up. I thought I ws starting to get a handle on the sun rays, and probably could have done better eventually, but the clouds were a total no-go for me. Also, for what it's worth (not much! LOL), this is all Vue,,as in no touch-up. The only reason I managed the waves, was due to Mary's instructions. Like I said, trying to get the clouds nearly KILLED me! LOL Cheers, Mike

heyas; not bad, mike! your water came out better than mine did. the rays just need some softer edges,maybe, and to be a bit more transparent, that's all. they are pretty cool. i found that to get the rays behind the clouds, you have to use cloud planes, not the sky cloud settings. and cloud planes made the cloud textures.... i dunno, they just came out real ugly compared to how they look on the sky. :/

Bloodsong, I know what you mean about the rays. I just can't seem to get those softer edges with Vue. Now, were I to take it into Painter, it would be a different story, but I'd love to know how to get it with Vue alone. Thanks, Mike

heyas; my first inclination is to say use a fuzzy material, but that isn't really it. that makes edges of things fuzzy... but i'm guessing the rays are a function? if there were a way to make the dark bands blend more smoothly with the white bands of the trans function, that would work. if you made a texture map for it, just blur the edges. :)