I'm curious why folks purchase figures, clothing, etc from companies rather than doing their own face and body changes themselves eg Victoria 2,3 etc downloads or variations thereof. I think it would be more fun to make face, body and body texture changes one self. I know that Poser 5 can do it and it has the ability to change Poser 4 figures as well. Okay, the figures may not be as beautiful as those purchased, but they are yours-you did it and you can give yourself credit for it. Clothing: All conforming clothes can be re textured, re colored, changed--eg dress made into boots, nylons, shields, bracelets, headgear, spears, you name it. Okay you have to do all that stuff in PSP, PP, PS, but it's fun to do. Again, you can then give credit to You and your twin Mine. One exception, folks that do animation-the clothing thing. Plutom

Why buy Victoria and her morph packs at all? Why not make your own figures and morphs? Edited for typos.

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 10:11

The answer to that question is, the reasons vary. For some, they might be working on a time crunch. They might not have the time to create something themselves, so they purchase something that will work for what they need. For others, time is money ... it will be more cost effective to buy something than create it themselves. Others might not want to learn how to create their own content. Instead, they just like to create the art and get to the end result. With such a wide range of people, it's a great thing that there is so much content, reasonably priced, to choose from.

It's quite difficult to learn modeling, and not everyone has the time to learn it or to make all their own models - it can take weeks to get one just the way you want it. Also, in the 3d art world there are actually 2 art forms involved: Modelling, and setting up and rendering a scene (there'a also a third one, postwork, but that's a whole nother argument). Some people excel at both, some are good at one but not the other. My modelling skills are mediocre at best. Sometimes when I just want to get into a render, I prefer to buy a pre-made model to use. I do make some of my own items, but sometimes there is a pre-made model that is exactly what I wanted, and is either free or for sale at a low price and rather than make one myself, it's faster to buy that one. Also a lot of people do 3d art for money and when you're working on a deadline you don't always have time to make all your own models. Every professional )and serious hobbyist, for that matter) that I know has accumulated a collection of pre-built models, characters, etc for just that reason

Why buy poser and PsP? Why not just make your own software> Why buy a computer, why not make one out of recycled junk from your basement? Why pay for electricity? Why not just build your own billion kilowatt (wouldtha be a mega terr ?) In your backyard? I know the reason I buy the V3 and M3 figures is because I can't make meshes anywhere near as good myself........ Maybe someday.......... But not today :P

I, for one, do not think it's "fun" to re-texture clothing and figures myself. I'm no good at it. Especially human figures, which are a right pain to get right. I sometimes enjoy modelling (though never anything as complex as a human figure), but texturing is not my thing. I'll do it if I have to, but I'd prefer to pay someone else to do it, so long as I can afford to do so. My own texturing never comes out looking like I want, and is nothing anyone would want to give themselves credit for.

And I'd love to see someone re-texture a dress into boots. There are limits to what can be done with texturing.

I'm a texturer and character maker but I still buy a lot of content. I buy clothes because it's impossible to get some of the styles and clothing types simply by modifying existing stuff. I buy props because there's no way I could make the guitars, cars, weapons, scenery, hair, etc that I buy. Likewise with human figures - there's a limit to the morphing ability of any model. I use Poser to make pictures, not to make objects. Same as I buy guitars to play. In the 30-odd years I've been playing I have yet to build a guitar.

It's not fun for me either. I use what other creative people offer to me to use....maybe they use that money to buy something that is just as nice for themselves as what they provided to me. I don't mind being part of the great marketing cycle. I didn't build my own house. I didn't design my own car. I have no intention of doing things from scratch that someone else does better. If you enjoy doing it all, good on you. But it's not bad on me for spending my time elsewhere.

I just want to make cool sci-fi and fantasy pictures that 'mesh' with the stories floating around in my brain box. By using pre-made models, textures to do that I save tons of the most valuable resource known to human kind, TIME. Here is an example of what I mean. For a scifi image I needed a little one man space fighter. In wings it takes me about 4 hours to model a space ship, then I need another 2 hours or longer to get a decent texture. Instead I use Davo's FVCS construction kit and construct a space fighter in about a half hour. In a world where time is money I'll go 30 minutes over 6 hours any day. Especially since this is a fun hobby for me. Oh sure, I'll do some re-texturing and modifying on a model as needed to fit my vision but for the most part I can find something out there in poserland that will plug right into my ideas, which really is the magic of Poser.

Different strokes ... ;=]

I buy stuff mainly for 2 reasons: 1 I can't make them myself. 2 I want to get straight in there and CREATE!!! Some wags may say I can't "create" either but hey "I like what I do" and that's what counts!!! thefixer poser coordinator.

The image is my objective. The models are my tools. occationaly I make my own tools. I don't feel the need to make them all.

There are as many reasons to buy this stuff as there are people buying them. I have a question though: What possible interest might it be to you to know why other people prefer to buy stuff instead of creating it themselves?

I agree with Plutom. All the nuts and bolts 3D stuff, modeling, making morphs in a modeling program etc. is where the real fun is in 3D for me. I wish more people who use Poser would try it, but there's incredible resistance to using even the in-Poser tools like the setup room and the face room. I know. I've tried to talk good friends who are well-regarded Poser artists into broadening their horizons, but they won't budge. I don't get it.

fls13, your message makes me even more curious to know... What is it to you? Why would you want to change the way others see things? Why would you want to prevent people from buying 3d stuff if they want to? Why is it that important to you that well-regarded Poser artists prefer to buy art helpers instead of creating it themselves? And mostly: Why are you so sure that by creating their stuff themselves, those artists would be "broadening their horizons"? That is what I don't get: why do some people think their way of thinking is the only right way of thinking?

Yeah, ......... it might be the "left" way of thinking. No ? ;=]

Who knows? ;o)

Only the Shadow knows! ;=]

Hum... Not sure about that Doc! If it is the Shadow in the saying "Me, myself, and my Shadow", I think the Shadow's POV might be biased. ;o)

No, I meant the old radio personality. Mwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ........... ha ;=]

... ha

ha

ha

ha

.

It's like saying; "Why do people order Pizza or eat at restaurants when every home has a stove?" or "Why do people buy vegetables at the market when it's so easy to grow your own?" Different priorities. Different talents. Different lives. Just another facet of the magical diversity of human experience and expression. If everyone had to re-invent the wheel every time they needed to go to the store, it would slow things down considerably. The streets would be more interesting, but a lot of people couldn't get out of the driveway. Everyone is different, thinks differently. For instance I have difficulty understanding why everyone doesn't realize such a simple thing without asking about it, but that's probably just me. Just my 2 cents worth, opposing views encouraged, expected, and met with blank incomprehension . . .

Some see things as they are and ask 'why'; I prefer to see things as they never were, and ask 'why not'?
-somebody famous..;)
It depends on your motivation. I have no way to buy stuff on the web, so I either depend on the kindness of strangers (freebies), or make my own. Some folks understand uvmapping (I'm one step closer; now I know I have to texture the template, but how it goes in and out of a paint program is beyond me..;) to texture things. Believe me, if you have to reduce a complicated mesh (character/prop, whatever) to a 2-dimensional piccy, and then paint in each little flinkin' polygon..you'll be happy someone else took the time in the first place.
Sometimes you need one thing to do another; textures for props are an example (if I read the post right, make boots out of a dress..hey, if you can do that, you should charge for it..;). It's not as easy as it looks.
Some folks do it for beer money, or a little extra folding money (you'll never get rich..;)
if you can do the stuff yourself, try it out in freebies; if you're good enough, you could sell the things yourself..

Oh! THAT Shadow!!! Thanks ockham, now I remember him! I didn't remember before because I was SO young at that time. France

Different priorities. Different talents. Different lives. That's it (IMHO)! For me the items that I buy or download for free are representing the tools, just like brushes, canvas and colors. Yes, in fact it's a fascinating idea to grab a squirell, comb out some of his tail hairs, get stick, wire, glue and so on and build my own,no, my perfect brush. But my day has 24 hours, every 2 days I need some sleep ;o). And I have to live from what I create. So time is money - and I even want to make art for my own pleasure, so I need some extra-time. And I think, I have much more talent and experience in creating images than in modeling. And as I see here and there, some merchants have more talent for modeling, texturing etc. then for rendering promo-images. Don't get me wrong, please, that's okay for me. In this case I get even more then shown on the promo-image. Yes, I would like to do my own things, sometimes I'm in need for some sepcial little things and can't buy them. I tried to do this and that on my own but ended up with some mess or compromise and a clock that shows me: 6 hours until I should be finished with work, the customer is waiting! What to do? Paint the missing things! So: If I could make a wish for a buyable item - it would be time. And then I would like to learn modelling too (texturing is not that problem for me). But life is no wishing-well and so some people have to make decisions for one thing or another.

The question that perplexes me is: why are certain people so worried about why other people choose to buy pre-made models/characters/etc........?

I don't worry over why some others might choose not to do this.

Frankly: it's their business. On top of which -- I couldn't care less about their internal motivations for doing what they do.

Besides -- what am I going to do about it? Convince them of the error of their ways? Teach them how to behave properly -- according to a set of strictures that I have chosen for them?

If people want to buy lots of stuff for Poser, then that's their affair.

Plutom,

You may find that the characters you originate by morphing faces and working on the 'bit level' with textures are MORE beautiful than those out of the box or marketplace.

Enjoy.

::::: Opera :::::

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 13:04

"if you have to reduce a complicated mesh (character/prop, whatever) to a 2-dimensional piccy, and then paint in each little flinkin' polygon..you'll be happy someone else took the time in the first place." Pakled, I think you're doing it the hard way. Just use an image you can find in a google search or any number of free tilable textures available on the web.

@ ockham - Hey, did I give you permission to post a picture of me? signed, The Shadow

I'd sue if I were you, Doc.

I would, but Sue won't talk to me any more ........... or ... any less, either.

;=]

Well, in the beginning I bought things I could learn from. Sometimes it was a question of having a practical example of a texture, sometimes it was geometry... Then there was also a laziness. When an item was sold for a really low price, and it would take me half a day or longer to create it, then, knowing my days are filled to the brim (one third sleep, one third daydreaming, one third planning for things that never come), why not buy it? A third reason was that sometimes an item or character was so intriguing that I really wanted it. Like a book. Or a CD. Or some new oil colour. Some characters are really unvickied (I invented a verb!) by their creators, and I just love that. A fourth reason was, and this applies to the Daz characters, that I am not afraid of modelling a character, but that the rigging and morphing that come afterwards are like climbing mount Everest when you, happy you, have made it to the base-camp. This said, I feel saturated now. Besides, it's me girlfriend who occupies herself of "the digital department" right now. She'll outperform me before the end of the year. And I love that.

I buy them because like it was stated before, I really don't have the time to learn how to make my own clothing and when I have tried just get something I want takes way too long and looks awfully crappy. What I do instead is buy the clothing sets I like (my son buys sets as well...we share the same PC) and I try to use them in different ways. Some products are just perfect the way they are (check out my last two renders) but with others I mix and match and do different things with the textures (My Red Brigrade series was a good example of that)

it's real simple those that can afford it buy those that can't make do......... netta

I think some folks here misunderstood my question. Unfortunately when one writes a question, it is not the same as asking it in person. My question was not intended to be sarcastic in any way. I'm a newbie to Poser anything and simply wanted to know. Most of you answered my question in the spirit in which was asked and I thank you. It's like asking why buy Poser 6? Plutom

"Unfortunately when one writes a question, it is not the same as asking it in person." Too true - (I've) run afoul of that often enough. I run SpellCheck and GrammarCheck regularly, haven't found a TongueInCheekCheck or SoberInquiryCheck add in for IE6 yet . . . LOL

Most of us are probably self taught and picking up scraps of knowledge here and there- so it's time, money, and training constraints. Most of us would probably love to do all of our own stuff, but aren't quite at that level yet, or don't have the means. Personally, when I buy character packs, I do it for the texture maps, and then apply them to a figure I spent time setting up. I rarely ever use the actual character. As for clothes, you can buy them and then create your own textures. I'll also buy things so I can study other techniques- which brings up another point. You get better variety when you decide to use different models, and not just your own, because you can combine your own ideas with someone elses. It broadens the mind and pushes you to be more creative, because you are exposed to more. Why do you think art students have to take classes like art history?

I think some folks here misunderstood my question. Unfortunately when one writes a question, it is not the same as asking it in person. My question was not intended to be sarcastic in any way. I'm a newbie to Poser anything and simply wanted to know. Most of you answered my question in the spirit in which was asked and I thank you. It's like asking why buy Poser 6? Plutom That's not a problem. Since you are new here, I'll mention the fact that this issue has been put forward before -- by individuals that clearly had some sort of an axe to grind. Whatever that axe might have been in regards to. Thus, the reaction from many.

Whatever that axe might have been in regards to. Usually, this sort of "axe" comes from "purists" who believe that others aren't being creative enough. And thus, those others should modify their behavior so that it comes into line with the Purist's personal ideal. Frankly, I think that if the truth were known.....the average "Purist" is simply someone that can't afford to be more than that.

OK, to get a reality-based answer, download one of the free modelling programs like wings3d, anim8tor or the free versions of Truespace and Amapi, and try your hand at modelling. You might discover that you have a talent for it, or you might develop a greater appreciation for purchased items...

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 15:37

Quote - I'm curious why folks purchase figures, clothing, etc from companies rather than doing their own face and body changes themselves eg Victoria 2,3 etc downloads or variations thereof.

Because some of us can't be bothered, or are too stupid (me) and haven't figured out how to do that stuff yet. I made a post asking for help and information on how to make textures because I too think it would be more satisfying to use things that I made myself...at the very least it would give me something else to do other than press buttons.

So I'm working on it :) Another reason is time considerations. From what I can figure out, making nice textured items and figures takes a great deal of time, and looking at the maps, I can see that for myself. Some people want to create figures and use them in the time they have to play in poser, not spend that time in a graphic program trying to make a texture for a skirt. Bascially, bought poser items is like fast food. Quick and satisfying the need. Message edited on: 03/30/2005 15:48

"Basically, bought poser items is like fast food. Quick and satisfying the need."

:D Love that! I might mention though, that some of us can't get those free modeling program because we're on Mac computers...no insults, I love my Apple. But most of the freeware is crafted for other systems unfortunately :(

Message edited on: 03/30/2005 16:11

Okay, the figures may not be as beautiful as those purchased, but they are yours-you did it and you can give yourself credit for it. Surely credit is due for the finished article anyway, for the time, composition, postwork, artistic flair...surely these count as well. Was Van Gogh or Picasso any less fulfilled with their work because they didn't make the brushes, canvas, or paints themselves maybe they did. As far as I am aware photographers are not required to manafacture their own cameras as carpenters aren't asked why they don't make their own tools. Incidentally I do make my own textures if there is something I need for a picture that isn't on the market..not got to objects yet as I usually render my figures bald and naked as I like to paint a fair amount 2D. I don't consider the fact that I didn't program adobe photoshop 7 to lessen my achievement either. Surley where, how and why you got the tools is less important than the finshed product :)

back when i had bryce 2 and poser 1, i used to try my hardest to make crappy little booleaned critters....and they were bad. then, i found animator but wasn't too good with it. when i got poser 4, i found actual content for programs, free stuff, etc. but, i still loved to make my own stuff....it was what i was used to, and, my stuff could be one of a kind. even my first 3 posts here have ran ran with my own eye morphs and little untextured shirt, and michael1 with my own textures and a morphed p4 hair do. i like making my own stuff. i am in no hurry to make pictures, but, i feel like a goddess when i make "stuff". Frankly, I think that if the truth were known.....the average "Purist" is simply someone that can't afford to be more than that. ....i think this statement is a bit off base. i have spent a good deal of money on modelling apps...and though it may not be as much as others have spent in the market for various and sundry items, you will find that many others would rather buy the app, and invest the time to learn it than invest over and over and over in what the "latest" market trends are. i'm not trendy....likely never will be....but, i am unique. i find modelling and texturing to be fun. i like doing both of those things a whole lot better than i like posing, and lighting in poser. it takes me as long to drag vicki around in a scene than it takes me to make a little lightwave critter. maybe, we all just have different talents, strengths and weaknesses.

maybe, we all just have different talents, strengths and weaknesses.

My problem with purists isn't that they choose (for themselves) to be "pure". Being a firm believer in the principle of personal liberty, that's fine with me.

The difficulty comes in whenever the purist attempts to force others to follow their own particular set of legalisms concerning the "proper" way to do 3D. And the "proper" way to be creative.

If someone wants to build all of their own models, and draw up all of their own textures -- then that's wonderful.

But don't insist that anyone who chooses not to work that way is somehow violating a CODE.