Upon lots of begging, kicking and screaming, I bought my dearest daughter "Lisa" a high-speed INTERNET connnection for her birthday because she said she wasn't fast enoght to talk to all her friends in the chat-rooms or whatever with it! well, as her dad and the BREADWINNER, who BOUGHT this internet connection, I figured, HECK, I'm gonna use it. And it's been GREAT, especially in exposing me to a new form of art, otherwise known as DIGITAL art.

Well, I've commented on several of these images in my chatty manner. I've tried to be honest, and candid, about how each piece makes me feel and react - and some make me feel certain ways - and react - very strongly! Far be it from me to keep my feelings tucked away from my internet friends, especially on the matter of ART. I LOVE this art, and if my comments are too personal for the folks at R'osity, I sincerely offer my deepest apologies. I meant to offend no-one, and am certainly NOT a dog-goned troll. I've just never seen any art so beautiful, or realistic. And I think this beautiful art warrants true and unbiased examination, which I have been more than willing to provide to each of these artists. They give me their beautiful fruits of expression, their "art," and I give them my LIFE EXPERIENCES!!!!!!! That is MY art, it is the rich tapestry of my LIFE!!! AND ONE CANNOT TAKE A MAN'S LIFE!!!!!!!!! i am a moral family man and mean no harm.

There. You decide, my artiste friends. To be true, or not to be? It is your art, and your choice. I know MY choice.

Oh, dear. You've found out one of the unwritten rules of Renderosity, and that's that a good many of the people who post here are not able to handle anything that isn't mindless praise. They're sensitive artistes, you know, and their art is perfect and nobody better say otherwise! bonni

There needs to be more critique.Good solid opinions on the image seen.No words can say this better.It's at the bottom of each gallery image. "Your helpful comments for improving this image:"

Hi Bill, If you feel an image contains a TOS violation, then you need to be contacting a mod or coord about it. The comments section is not the place for this, and that's why your comment was removed. The gallery header for each section contains clickable links to contact the mods/coords for that area. I hope this clarifies why your comment was removed. Karen Poser Moderator

well, ok, thanks for the "heads-up"! i'm new to this gig, as i said, and i've just gotta get the hang of things. just like to express my "feelings" about things, but what you say makes sense. thanks a mil, my fine friends!!!!!!!!

Attached Link: You call this Veracity?

How is it helpful or an "unbiased examination" for someone to comment ***"wow - or should i say WHOA!! - boy, that's one for ASAIRS!!!!! you're towing the line of good taste - and the decent and proper treatment of ALL animals here by posing them as objects of this boy's flaming blue pantsed desires! watch out young man and juyst remember, ART DOESN'T HAVE TO REPLICATE LIFE!!!!"*** On an image that only has a horses head in the foreground with a figure in the background? The comment isn't even in any way relevant. Projecting those kind of delusions, desires and ***LIFE EXPERIENCES!!!!!!!*** might be fun for the viewer, but how is the artist responsible for it? It sure fits the definition of a ***dog-goned troll*** in my book If you want to critique an image, have it at least apply to it, not something out of left field that jas nothing to do with it.

Okay, if that's what was actually written, that goes way beyond the usual sensitive artiste in a snit. That is DEFINITELY over the line and very rude. What sort of "life experiences" make a person assume some sort of bestiality link from an RPG character portrait, anyway? bonni

"feelings" have there use. But useing "feelings" as a method or process to define an artist motivation allways and everytime produces eronious results! Use your "feelings" to define how YOU and you alone respond to an exhibit. Never ever prescribe your emotional response to anyone elses motivations. Art is in the eye of the beholder! Assumptive behavior is allways fantasy.

Actually this is usually the case when someone sees something they don't like.I saw one of the images he commented on where the character was a drow and there was a horse clearly posed far away from the character in a visual location we would equate with being almost right in front of the camera.From this Mr Frist assumed the image portrayed beastiality because the horses head was slightly in front of the drows groin area when the drow was clearly positioned in the distance.

It is very clear that if Mr Frist can make such a blatant error and yet make such a harsh if meandering comment criticising the image,he is revealing that he "is choosing to see" what he wants in the image.

We in this community and elsewhere have had to endure these type of comments which are not fair to the artists or the community as a whole but at least in general the person complaining at least has a little substance to their argument.This is a moral assessment where the commentor saw something they didn't like and then began seeking out other images they could pass a moral assessment on...maybe due to a time limit that they could search,they began to see things that weren't there and felt compelled to speak their mind.

If your assessment of this community as a whole is so bad then don't visit,add it to your blocked site list and forget it.I could provide you links to other sites your children will have access to online that exist both here and abroad that you can't protect them from (the real thing not just drawings or 3d) except one at a time when you find they've visited the site.

I do feel the online experience should be safer for children and parents shouldn't have to worry as much as they do.But you have the power to deal with it Bill and that power does not include coming here attacking the artists when you appear not to understand what you are viewing...you owe at least one of the artists an apology and until you pay more attantion to what you view and how you comment on what you view,you should keep your opinions to yourself.

When you have a valid issue with an image,take it to the mods and if you feel compelled to comment then do so in a way that makes sense and is not insulting as your issue may be valid,but you invalidate it in the way you've been commenting and make yourself look both uneducated in regards to what you see and incoherent in your response.You clearly are an intelligent person and coherent from the look of your comments on this thread which is why I am confused in regard to your comments on the images as I've seen at least two of them and both look like they were written by someone who was intoxicated. This community has done a lot to make your visit a nice one,you have options here to block violence and nudity so that any time you might see an image with it you will have a valid grievence and the people running the site will take action. You have the right to say what you want and in fact most of us would prefer criticism to just another "nice pic" comment,but make sure your comment is valid first and try not to make a moral assessment...take anything based on moral issues to the admin or the forums,anything else comes off as an attack against the artist that may be unjust when they are following the guidelines set by the site itself.

PS;Lol...exactly how is art replicating life in that image and if it is where were you raised as round here people don't take to kind to beastiality and certainly wouldn't consider it an everyday fact of life.Thats what I mean't about your comments not making sense as surely you didn't mean that the image was replicating something you think actually is commonplace or an acceptible behavior reflecting real life;P

Now, look, just judging from my impression which I felt was ACCURATE doesn't mean that anyone has the right to belittle my "opinions" or run me off the R'osity River!!!! I participate HEAVILY in community animal rights activities and have chaired for ASAIRS before!! I speak from EXPERIENCE and WISDOM that bestiality and other RELATED activities are PREVALENT and WIDESREAD in our society and you can bet your be-hind they may even exist in FANTASY realms!!!! Just look next doors - it could be your neighbor!!! Sure was MINE by jingo and it was APPALLING!!!! but that's neither here nor there, as was delicately pointed out to me by "Armor" Beast. If you want me to keep my "projections" to myself from now on, i can attempt to tame the ol' "talker" and focus on the TECHNIQUE of the art, even if all i know to do is say, "sure is PERTY!" I mean, can we not accept that some people, even if not "digitally" gifted themselves, may just come to look?? perhaps that layperson's comments may help? i don't know, I'm just your average suburban "dad" who's new to all this hullabaloo!!!! just used to kickin back with a smooth AMERICAN brew after a few holes of GOLF. And violent "femme," first off i am a loving, supportive father to my lovely if somewhat obese wife and children!!!!! sheesh who's making assumptions NOW!!!!!! as the Good Book says, you can pull a splinter out of my eye, but that would require that first, you pull the PLANK out of your own!!! I LOVE this site and all the FRIENDS I have made and can keep my OPINIONS to myself from now on but I won't stop loving the ART. Thank you!!!!!!

Please keep this civil or I will be forced to lock it. No name calling and stick to the subject. SndCastie Community Admin.

Well wasn't that the problem in the 1st place? If the comment had in any way stuck to the subject of the image in question, then none of this would've been necessary right?

As my wife pointed out "Friends dont let friends get drunk and comment on images" if you're going to relax and have some of that smooth american brew then, take more care in how it's going to affect your outlook when you view the galleries.

Even if that kind of thing happens where you live, it certainly wasn't happening in that image that you commented on, so it had nothing to do with the subject of an RPG character. So none of your experience or wisdom about animal abuse was in any way relevant to the image.

If you want to say the image was perty, go ahead, but would you appreciate any comments about your daughter that accused her of abusing animals? That's what all the hullabaloo was about, the lack of respect and the lack of any relevance to the image that went way off the subject

Message edited on: 07/15/2005 14:53

Actually the issue isn't your views on animal rights or not commenting,its to be accurate in your comment and to make sure you're correct before you post a comment.To assume that the image in question had even the faintest hint of beastiality in it is no different than assuming that because a woman smiles at you it justifys raping her.Your view was incorrect and insulting to the artist which you did not consider...if you had at least been correct in that beastiality were even hinted at then you would have a point and there would be no issue.But it becomes an issue when you comment on an image insinuating something as perverse as beastiality is implied by the artist when if you understand anything about art you would have been able to break the image down in your mind,realise how the characters were set and know you were wrong in your initial view on it. The issue here is that in the way you commented you invalidated yourself because nobody else would have seen it the way you initially did...it doesn't make the artist look bad,maybe insults them,but makes people wonder what you were thinking to have jumped to such a conclusion. We don't want you to make comments like this that aren't sound and extremely insulting to the artist...if there were even a hint of what you said in that image that might have been true I wouldn't have bothered to express my view as to how wrong you were to have expressed your observation.You have every right to comment,you have every right to be harsh in your criticism of art here...you do not have the right to be insulting to the degree that you were and had apologies been issued by yourself that seemed more genuine then maybe people would have reacted differently. To say these are my views and I apologise for expressing them does nothing in the way of apologising when you were wrong not in making a comment...but for the insulting manner of your comment aimed squarely at the artist essentially accusing her of making an image depicting desires of beastiality.How would you feel if by the voracity of your comment people assumed that you were into this stuff yourself???You'd be just as insulted as the artist was which is why your comment was removed...I just cannot understand how you could defend that comment or the fact you attacked the artist in such a way when absolutely no one but yourself would have seen bestiality depicted. All I can say is you owe the artist a sincere apology without the "its my view" part meaning you stand by your comment and think you were right about its content. Sorry Sandy...but accusing someone of making an image depicting beastiality and then acting like you're hurt because people say you crossed the line and were wrong for making a flawed,insulting remark is a bit much.Just cause it had a horse and a fantasy character doesn't make it beastiality and how this stretches to animal rights is beyond me save to justify an insulting comment.

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It wasn't that that I am talking about it was the name calling that I have a problem with. Sandy

Bill,we do want you in this community and we'd love to have you active and participating...but the issue I raise is that your views on this stray so far from the actual image you commented on that you created the problem.Its like I told Elfy,I saw a seam problem which helps her...had I seen even a glimmer of anything you thought you saw I would have told her in all honesty that this is why he thought your image depicted that content.But it doesn't and mentioning you like taking a brew now and then kinda says that the assertion you may have been intoxicated may be correct. If so hey I used to have a brew now and then before I became diabetic and I think everyones forgiving of that and no harm done.If you were a bit under the influence we'd probably chuckle and I know even Elfy would probably just laugh it off and say glad to meet ya.Its just thats not what I saw in your initial comment here,seemed more a sober minded defense of what you said which made things worse as you were stating you stand behind your comment and mean't every word. So we're not against you...even if you had one too many brews,only makes you human and actually in this case more understandable in regard to what was said.No harm done unless you mean't every word and were totally sober in making them.

Sorry Sandy...I didn't realise I was and I apologise for that,just if I did that maybe got carried away.He did mention brews in his follow up so just saying if thats the case this could all be laughed off and no harm done if he really didn't mean what he said cause of that (lol,I know Elfy has a sense of humor bout things like that in other words:)

Well, if, as you say, the image was posted in "proper" intent, I extend my SINCEREST apologies to the fine, fine artist. So artfully rendered was the scene that it's surprising it isn't a PHOTOGRAPH, really. That clarity, and the candidness of the scene . . I dunno. Ya can never tell, especially with KIDS nowadays!!! Do and say the darndest things!!!!! But, I "SINCERELY" apologize to the artist. Try to keep my ASAIRS charimanship from "sneaking" on in!!!! Big part of my life, does tend to crawl up on ya!!!!! But as long as said "elf" is a good boy!!!!! LOL!!! And I was in NO way drunk when I commented on that image! You can bet your bottom I am, other than with my BUDDIES, a sober and DEDICATED "FATHER" and "HUSBAND." I would give the WORLD for my kids, and you bet I'd open that can of "whoop-a*s" if anyone so much as DARED to insinuate anything dirty about my "LISA" or especially my beauty "MARLA" unless she was actually DOING it in REAL life. Got some GOOD KIDS!!! LOVE animals and LOVE dad and LOVE American "virtues and the "freedom of speech"!!! well, hope that clears things up and stops the "hullabaloo!" just a "teddy" bear at heart, ol' Bill! Thanks, fine friends!!!!!!!

Oh My God..LOL Bill my daughter works for the Alaska Aspca and I can tell you.. please don't look at any of my art anymore LOL I'm scared to death if I put an animal in it what on God's green earth you may think.. which by the way..the horse was meant to be the Elf's for equestrian purposes only. You know, to get from here to there rather than walk..long distances? You made a personal character judgement of me without knowing me. It had nothing to do with the image. You did a character assassination of me, when I was only trying to do a simple RPG image for a friend. who now, with your created, and dramatic, attention getting trampling of ME..not my picture.. may not even want! It's the pants.. I knew it. I can take criticism of my art..it helps me improve. God you went and made me contraversial..and I'm a grandma.. how'm I gonna hold my head up now? Geesh!! Last night I thanked you for your comment without even knowing what you said..but now that I read what you said..I'm a little sick. You must be one of those people who learned enough Grammar in school to think you can get away with and probably even paid for being a schmuck with a pen.. God..your apology isn't even anything.. because you didn't apologize to me..just to people who got upset on my behalf. There would be no apologies in order had you said..OH My Lord..those pants might be a little too loud..and oh my word..look at that terrible seam. LOL I'd have worked on betting it. OK I'm just upset but it'll pass. Welcome to the community..stay out of my gallery if you all you're going to do is assassinate my character. Sincerely Robin Minick (Elfenone)

wow, well I must say I'm sorry! I'm blushing here!!! SO glad to know your daughter is a promoter of animal advocacy! but I agree with you, the "hullaballoo" is completely unwarranted!!! boy, what a shmuck i am!!!! and i'm not even using a "pen," just a keyboard!!!! but my apology is directed at you, robin!!! just a little "reactive" I guess!! must be the family tension, work demands etc getting to my head! WHOO!! well, sorry again! i tip my hat to you and all my friends - and to the good elf and his trusty horse!!!

Apology accepted and now I think I'll go ahead and post my next image..which contains horses LOL OMG. You are not a schmuck today. Sincerely Robin Minick

I must confess I am still wondering now..if you're sincere, but somehow I just don't care..let's drop this nastiness I'm tired and trying to post something my grandchildren will see.. which btw I hope and pray they never see comments like yesterdays.

I agree that it is time to move on past this. Thanks Stacey Community Manager

Well Bill you really have to be careful when you comment as I've pissed people off agreeing with something they themselves said about their art in their own comments.Beastiality is possibly the worst insult you might assert about someones work and it wasn't the comment alone that got Elfy mad enough to respond to you here but rather your own comments.Maybe you are stressed as you allude to but even at that your attempts at apologies come off as sarcasm.She told me she thinks its your best try at a sincere apology and that may be the case...but trust me,if it had been an image with beastiality in it you would have found a ton of support as we don't want that here any more than you.But it just wasn't the case here and a lot of people were insulted by the comment is all. Hope you get some stress relief...I know how that can be as I lost my mother last year in June and the stress just about killed me as she was my only real family.So if thats the root here I think we can leave at that,we all have our moments and with understanding people forgive and forget like Elfy tells me she has done after seeing your reply. Stress can make you do irrational things or things you wish you hadn't so if thats the case I think its time to move on and end the thread if everyone agrees and the admin will be so kind as to lock it so no one else might add to the furor.I'm out on this,Elfy says she wants it ended,I think Bill was just stressed so he probably wants it to end...lets just move on before someone else that hasn't had a say comes in and really flames it up. Would that be ok?

Sure sounds good to me. So sorry to hear about your mother - gosh, I sure do miss my own! My sincerest apologies to "all"!!! just wish summer were like in the old days when we were KIDS and could just play some ball and wind down!!!! have a GREAT weekend all!!!! and sorry again!!!!!!

Locking this thread since it has ended on a good note with apologies being made and accepted. Thanks Stacey Community Manager