Look, piracy exists, but most users of Vue are legit. Pirates always break any encryption system, ALWAYS (go check Microsoft in last week or so, lol) Now, this new encryption system is an affront and abuse of the CUSTOMER. Why? You can't save anything you modify with it. Yes that's right folks, if oyu make an ecosystem, with your honeslty bought new Cornucopia trees....you cannot save it! This isn't a bug, it's a design choice from E-on. How DARE a company impose it's will on the customer. This kind of arrogant and down right dangerous attiude has been spreading through the corporate dictators for a while. I don't use the term "dictator" lightly. Any elected offical or representative, has a system of laws and common sense limiting their powers...so who limits companies? The politicians they've bought or who are too stupid to be technologically aware? This is becoming a serious threat against our civil liberties which our politiicans are too ignorant or too corrupt to deal with. In this case, it's a company trying to protect their assets vs pirates, quite understandable, but they've crossed the line. Folk are only noticing because it's so buggy, terribly so. But, how many of your civil freedoms are you willing to see eroded in the name of "security"...? As a legit user, I'm very happy to support E-on and other companies., I will NOT suport companies who's EULAs are immoral, unconstitutional, illegal and down right stupid (not aimed at E-on). You think I'm kidding and foolish? When companies want to force you to update or be unable to your their products...unable to use copying devices without their consent...unable to save your own work...don't you think we are in danger? Please feedback E-on to remove this dangerous garbage. Perosnally I'm very willing to support Cornucopia with my time and wallet, but I will be literally damned if I'll support this arrogant, dangerous attitude. I do not want to see my children in some future years, end up the slaves of corporations who've been let take over our world by inaction.

I have already stated my opinion on this matter here and at the e-on store. I agree with you 100% and as long as the files are encrypted I will not be buying anything from the store. I only hope they take the encryption out of Vue and let us use our browser to link to the store. Tell me what is wrong with that. Its how we do business with places like Daz, rdna and other site that have software for vue. I for one am highly aggravated with how e-on is treating its honest customers. :o(

Oh no! I had not yet heard about this. I'll test the new trees myself and if i can't save an ecosystem made with them i'll certainly complain, boycott the store and spread the word. When we pay to license content, we MUST be able to save and reuse it! Of course i don't expect to own copyrighted objects i license - but i do expect to be able to fully use them.

I've already let my feelings be known, but once again I agree with Silverblade & Iloco. I won't be buying & thank God I already have those all the buildings etc & can do with as I please as they were once freebies. As for the trees well, I have Xfrog trees & RDNA trees. I also downloaded a ton of leaf freebies and bark off the web, so I can change my leaves and make my own in 5-15m. Just scan & replace. It's always 2 steps forward & 4 step backward with E-ON. I personally just want the program to be bug free, could care less about product...With 40g+ of Poser stuffs and a lot of Vue stuffage. I'm covered till the day I die LOL

From a post below "(from e-on tech) Hi aaron, This behavior is intentional. The copy protection prevents you from saving a plant you got from Cornucopia3d. Best regards. Tom Thir" ... Not aimed at Tom, just the attitudue of his company in this issue,in the words of Londo Molari from Babylon 5@ "Arrogance and stupidity in one package! How efficient!" :>

This also affects the objects....houses etc.

The store has been shut until Friday while they bug hunt and deal with issues.

I sure hope they deal with the encryption issue. :)

I won't be having any problems with store as long as encryption stays LOL, because I won't be shopping ;)

Just joining everyone else who will not buy from the store while the encryption is active. It's stupid. None of the objects supplied with Vue itself are like this, so why should the extra stuff we would happily shop for?

I agree 100% with silverblade33! Another slap into face of legal user. I purchased a small house at the store that the bullshit software even cant decrypt. For what did we purchase the Vue Infinite software if we cant export objects to other applications; the essential use for Vue Infinite is to work with other software. I use Cinema; Poser and some other applications but e-ons Vue is the most paranoid Software I ever saw! Mazak

Just spotted this over at the Cornucopia support page, had to laugh:

"Why is Vue content copy-protected?
High-level encryption technologies are used to ensure that you, the legitimate customer, don't have to carry the burden of software piracy. Copy-protection is not applicable to "generic" format content."

No, it's so e-on doesn't have to carry the burden - the legitimate customer does, in the form of limited usability.

"Do I have to worry about copy protection?
No. You won't even notice that your Vue-content is copy-protected."

Sorry e-on, but a lot of people just noticed...

Darn. I just bought Vue Infinite and have the 50 dollar credit at the store. Guess I won't be using it. I am sorry the company supports this anti-piracy, anti-consumer crapola and would not have ordered Infinite if I knew about it at the time. ::grumble::

Sorry for being a lame brain but is this post saying that past plants we bought from vue can be saved but plants bought from Cornucopia can't and will never be able to be saved as new plant species?

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 17:42

That is how I understand it. I have not used my voucher to get any of the plants because of all the problems they are having with the store. I already have most of the models by A Garcia so don't need any of those and I use xfrog and rdna trees and vegetation so don't need any of those. So much free stuff fo Vue that it would have to really appeal to mee before I spend real money on models. So I can only tell you what I have read from other users who are having problems with saving the plants and models. :o)

At the current time, yes. This caught everyone by surprise, and much of e-on is at Siggraph this week. This apparently -wasn't- supposed to happen, and the store is closed until they get a handle on things. There has also been an arrangement made with the moderators, so that as items are repaired, we get to beta test them before they go active in the store once again. That way there will be testing across a wide range of platforms, and any bugaboos =will= be caught.

I am just going to add a small consideration for you to think about. I do not agree wholeheartedly with the copy protection system, but I want to point this out: I have models made for Poser. These models are rigged for animation. When I release these as Vue versions, because they will not be rigged for animation, I want to charge less for them. But if the user can just buy the cheaper Vue version, export that to Poser, and do his own rigging, then I will have to keep my pricing for the Vue versions equal to the Poser versions, even though are are much simpler models. To give you a simple example (hypothetical). If I have a model of a Hurricane, the Poser version has 20 moving parts, but the Vue version will be two static models, one with the wheels out, and the propellor standing still and the cockpit open (for ground renders), and the other model with the wheels retracted, blade blur props and the canopy closed (for flying renders). If the Poser version sells for $20, I would like to sell the Vue version for $13 or so, but if it is expotable to Poser, this will not be possible. So I think some measure of encryption is called for, but I don't think it should be a blanket encryption, especially not on products that are Vue specific, like eco system plants.

But why would be able to save plants bought from the e-on site and not the corucopia site? That makes no sense.

The trees are $10.00 from both site. The editor would be useless for trees bought from Cornucopia since they can't be saved for later use.

Logic tells me this can't be so. I pray it is not.

If e-on thinks pirates are hurting their sales they are wrong. E-on is hurting their sales. How can we take this software seriously or professionally?

Dale, who said the customer agrees to be an unpaid beta tester?

I expect tested products when I buy without me being the tester.

This is a bad experience turned to a nightmare. Why would e-on launch a bad web site, with bad items, drive their customers mad, and go promote themselves at Siggraph show? Are they that bad of planners? Apparently, from their weak history.

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 18:04

Don't make sence to blame it on e-on being at Siggraph. Where weree all the beta testers and why wasn't it tested before it was put up for sale. I don't buy this as an excuse. :o(

To Helgard.....I only buy Poser specific items & 3ds/Obj/Shade/lwo. models now. Much more flexible & the quality is much better. When I first started out with Vue4, I bought Boo's addons & 2 plants directly from E-ON, everything else is all Poser etc items. I've also bought a couple Lightwave models(that were not Poser ready) so I can use them in Vue. I don't consider model cost a huge issue until they start getting TurboSquid ridiculous, then you can forget it. SO cheap is NOT always the best. Ditto Iloco on the above. I find it odd, E-ON opens a store, takes off on trip without even checking on the "health" of the site they just opened before toodling off. Hmmmm...after further thought maybe it's not odd ~eye roll~

iloco,

I'll stick my head above the parapet, probably get myself shot in doing so, but I was a beta tester, there weren't these problems in beta. Do you think anybody deliberately spends a heap of money on building a huge website in order to alienate their customers?

BTW, the new pines are pretty much what you've been asking for I think.

The pines are not what I was asking for. I wanted pines that worked.
Pines with their correct name for their leaves and trunks. (By mislabeling them it shows a rush job or a worker who doesn't care)
Pines that could render over a network.
Pines with the correct handles.
Pines that could be modified and saved as different plant species.

No one said it was deliberate but nonetheless it is.

Just wanted to agree with the above comments. I had decided to wait until e-on straightened things out a bit before spending my money. BUT when I found out that the tree models couldn't be modified and saved in new form, that did it. I'm boycotting. It's not right. Although I never did by the additional tree models from the e-on site, I always assumed that they worked the same as the models supplied with Vue. So why change their philosophy at Cornucopia? Doesn't even make sense. I also don't think it's right to have separate models for Vue5 and for Vue5Infinite. I have both products, one an upgrade from Vue4 and one an upgrade from Vue4Pro. Does this mean I have to buy a model twice? Ridiculous. This site, for as long as it took, wasn't thought out well. Their loss. -Lin

John, why didn't the beta testers say anything about saving new plant species? Did you not even make a new plant species and save it? Did you not even noticed the misnamed materials for the plants?

John I have no quarrel at all with you on e-ons problems or as a beta tester. It just seems strange to make excuses for something that is not working as was stated above in another thread. You said there were not these problems during beta testing so I take it something has happened after the store opened. I am really confused with what I read on some these issues. No big deal but would like to see e-on get it all together and especialy get rid the encryption that no other software has from Daz, rdna and other popular sites that sell this product. No I have never asked for the pines. I have xfrog and rdna pines I use all the time. Also use a lot of free pines that are in the vue free stuff here at RR. Lets get this back to what it once was. A good software that people like to use and enjoy. It is my favorite software and I would like to see it back on track and working as it should be. Thats all I ask and want. :o)

Knew I'd get shot, I'll relay your feelings back to Cornucopia, before my wounds get fatal.

You know what, now I'm going to get flamed but at this point ~shrug~. Did the testers, test the products???? Install/eco/mat changes/save???? Now I understand when 1st opening a site there will be difficulties, but this crap with the product is beyond the pale of understanding. Upon 1st reports of this, IMHO, the store should have been shut down, items tested WITH the ability to save/modify etc before re-opening. This is the same verbage we heard about the release of Vue 5(not V5I).....OH IT WAS ALL WORKING OK! Until people started coming out the closet to report bugs, and I can see some poor soul over at Corn3d still has the same issues most of us had upon the release. I say coming out of the closet, because it seems as though many of us our "afraid" to publicly come out & complain when indeed there are SERIOUS issues. Why you ask, some people cannot seem to admit when there are problems & I'm talking MAJOR problems not some sniveling bs. They keep saying Oh, it works fine for us, well thats all fine dandy that maybe 10 out of a hundred users are having no problems. So those complaining get snubbed & say oh its your machine etc. You get the drift. I love Vue, but I'm honest to all about its shortcomings & problems & successes. I'm not a corporate grunt/a$$ kisser nor will I ever be. Honesty up front tends to stomp out hostility & built up frustrations. Now, I'm NOT accusing you JWHitham of any of these things, so don't get all knarled up :) But Ive seen things happen not only here, but I have to deal with these types of issues all the time almost daily. And believe me, what Ive said here does not even remotely compare to what I say to our accounting software people when I discover an issue, after it is peoples money I deal with daily, cant have fubars there. Id be banned for sure LOL

I hear that dlk30341. I too deal with this daily. John are you going to avoid my questions about beta testing methods? I am not attacking you but curious as to what the beta testers do. What is the procedure? Were you able to make new plant species and save them? You said you were a beta tester openly so I feel it is fair to ask you. If you didn't want me to ask then why say you were a beta tester at all?

lanaloe77, if you have problem with Cornucopia, that is the place to discuss it. As to saving new species, no, as I said before that isn't a bug.

Well it hasn't cost me any money out of my wallet yet. Thankfully. I spent most of the voucher on items I can't use. Still, no real loss to me. I'm not mad. I'm not going to flame. I'm disappointed. It saddens me to see this whole affair tarnish the whole Vue image... and it has badly. I also have to agree that I buy a model it's mine to do with what I want. (not resell of course) So, guess that means no money will be coming out of my wallet at the store when it does get running again, if they keep that encryption. Too bad. I had such hopes for a really nice Vue only store. With how long we waited for it, don't you guys think we could have waited till after their trip to launch it? Bad, bad timing. Wish them all the best. Hope things work out for them, but think they've lost too much already.

Thanks for the info, John. I'm hopeful it'sll all get straigntened out soon. dlk30341: If Vue 5i works with few problems (nothing is perfect) on most people's equipment, then it is simply a fact that people for whom it does not work have localized problems and the developers are not at fault. Fact - not ass kissing. Of course it's not really that simple because there is more than one platform involved, many graphics cards, etc. And i'm not saying e-on shouldn't help people with their localized problems. Any software will have problems on some systems. If Vue was as bad as some make out, there would be hundreds of complaints, not the number i see here and on e-on's forum. This is not a personal comment aimed at you, but I don't like people calling a product garbage that works great for me and most users. It's a lazy, thoughtless, paranoid, irresponsible attitude - like the guy who sued the fast food people because he got fat on burgers. I'm going to wait quietly now and see how e-on deals with this problem.

JC - I specifcally said Vue5 NOT V5I. Go visit the E-ON forums or search here about all the problems that came with Vue5 ~sigh~! By the way, FYI there some problems with V5I as well, as research will show. And based on many forum readings around the internet you will see people are stillhaving problems with V5.

I never called anything garbage either >:(. In fact, I said "I love Vue"
Even though you said this want not aimed at me, I'll address it anyway. I'm fairly computer savy & have always had a top notch system, I upgrade yearly. So I'm neither, lazy/paranoid etc. Also, in reference to other things, as it turns out the 10 people were having the same problems as the rest, they just didn't admit it publically to a couple months later. I am fully aware that no software can be released totally bug-free, that is not what it as issue. That only happens in fantastyland LOL >Please don't mis-quote me :)

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 19:24

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 19:35

VI when released was crap, it sucked goats on many folk's systems, for many reasons, hence the huge amount of bug fixes. You CAN'T say it wasn't bug ridden. Look at the amount of patches... Yes the PC platform is atrocious for developers due to the variations..but that's also why it's popular.

Sorry, if i mis-quoted you and i really, really don't mean you personally. I just sense this attitude from a (very few) posts here on on e-on's forum that "everything that happens to me is someone else's fault". Such an attitude pushes my buttons to be sure. I also had a few early problems with Vue 5i - which were rapidly fixed by their patches. Sure, it shouldn't need patches and some products work better than that during a new major release. My experience is with Vue 5i - i bought 4 Pro and skipped 5. So, i'm not qualifed to comment on Vue 5. All i really have to go on re: e-on's quality and service is my own experience with Vue 5i - which has been quite positive. So far, when i've reported problems i get professional responses and a fix in the next beta patch (again, this is with Vue 5i). I have seen a lot more Vue 5 problems reported than for other versions - good point. As for the store problems, i'd call this a major mistake and i'm hoping they change their policy and resolve things soon. Anyway, more than enough said...

E-on is good for techs listening and working on bugs, I agree there. But never had so many bugs on any program that crashed and burned so easily bar perhaps Poser5...

Vue 5i ran on my system out of the box (1st released Wintel version Pro 4 upgrade, V5.05-02 build 275765) as released and i had only 512MB memory. I got useful work done with it. Not my definition of "crap". It crashed Win XP Pro a few times to be sure (3-4). I agree that new releases should be more robust than Vue 5i was at release. Anyway, drifting off the store topic...

I'm confused (as usual). To me, this issue isn't about bugs (aren't we all used to those by now?) I thought it was about artistic expression, which should be a familiar topic by now. What they're doing, is limiting our ability to buy a tool and use that tool to make our renderings our own. If we can't customize a material, tree, eco to work the way that best suits our own needs, then where is our self expression? I mean, some of those products look great, but I want to make them work for me. And then I want to save the "me" results to use again if that's what works. As I understand it, we can't do that. Anyways, don't waste time protesting here.... get over to c3d and protest there. We need to make sure e-on understands this policy will hurt their profits... and why.

Isn't thread drift great LOL. I think people have a lot of pent up frustration & this encryption mess was the so called "the straw that broke the camels back". I know, as well as many other were looking forward with great enthusiasm to the store opening. I have to say it's beyond the word dissapointment. Off to bed now.

What?? I was hoping for new vue vegitation... but you can't use them in an eco system?? I just came to post about freebie and saw this for first time... I never got any voucher for buying vue 5i... but sure am glad I missed the chaos at the new store!! I will just sit and observe a while as I do with any new software....!

I just got the new plants to work in vue ecosystems. You have to set the scale much lower and ramp up the density. You just can't save that ecosystem to use in other scenes, you need to rebuild it every time. Anyway, ontopic, do they really think the black market for vue files is so big? Maybe object files I can understand, but veg and eco files?

Message edited on: 08/03/2005 21:48

You can't save your modified plant but you can export it!!! What I did was to export the modified tree as a 3ds file which I can load back in as an object for use in my scene. Check out the attached image. The tree on the left is the original Cornucopia tree with modified snow texture. The tree on the right is the 3ds version of the same tree. It's not exactly the same in quality as the original but it's close enough. The pine needles seem a little darker in the 3ds version vs the original. Since the original tree can't be saved I can't put a version of it in the free stuff section which was what I had planned to do. All I can do now is make a tutorial to show how to make it. I'll post it once it's complete.

Jim

About buggy software.... Firstly, from Vue 2 to 3, Vue 3 to 4, then from Vue 4 to 5....they all had major bugs and many people where unhappy...until bug fixes sorted out the major ones. I've never been sure about E-ons beta-testing policy...well no concerns about the testers, but more concerns about what E-on do with bug reports. I agree that PC's are a sod to program for, but that shouldn't be an excuse to release buggy software...other software manufactures are able to release very stable software on the initial release....Maxon, Adobe, Autodesk etc....I think it's more down to where the software manufacturer sets its own standards and how reliable that core code is. Skimp on the core code and everything else around it will be fragile. Just my 2 pence worth.... Cheers

"Look, piracy exists, but most users of Vue are legit. Pirates always break any encryption system, ALWAYS (go check Microsoft in last week or so, lol)"

"Now, this new encryption system is an affront and abuse of the CUSTOMER."

Yes. Even though I own Vue 4, Vue 5, and Vue Infinite, according to the new store, I am a pirate. My account is locked saying someone else used my serial number. I have spent SIX days trying to get help from the store or E-on, writing to every link possible. Funny thing is, the error page referred me to write to redemption@eon.com or something like that and mail is returned saying no such address. Well, that was fixed after 2 days, so I copied my ENTIRE account page at E-on , with the serial numbers THEY have listed and the store page with the EXACT same serials and sent to all concerned. Nothing..no reply from E-on. Now the store is down.

If my account is not fixed, I'm gonna go balistic after spending money on Vue products these many years.

Maybe it was a blessing as all the products I see were encrypted and useless to me anyway. I hope when the store is re-opened, all the problems of encrypted are wiped, as well as the fact my account is unlocked.

What I did was to export the modified tree as a 3ds file which I can load back in as an object for use in my scene.

You can??? What's the point of encrypting it, then?

I am so confused about what is and isn't allowed with these Cornu-trees. I'm glad they've reconsidered about allowing them to be saved, but we should be able to export them to other apps as well. That is what they promised with VueI, isn't it?

Not exactly. Vue 5i has several objects that are owned by artists and are set to be non-exportable. And you can set your own creations to be non-exportable too. I can understand that amount of intellectual property protection, if a 3D artist wants to retain rights to their object, but still wants them featured in Vue. If they didn't do so, anyone could export and resell the objects, use them for commercial projects for free, etc. What I can't understand is not being able to change and save an object I purchased.

[quote="William Hutton"]Wabe I will be glad to answer you. First I am retireed and made my living working for myself. Never for anyone else. So I think I understand a few things about what you wanting to know for an answer. When I was in business there was enough markup to items I sold to take care of the few that were stolen. Yes I have had many items stolen. Did I worry about them......No if I did I would got paranoid and quit seeling said items. Its just human nature for people to get things that don't belong to them or plainly put stealing. It goes on every day. I would much rather pay a little more for a product from the store and be able to use it as I need instead of paying less and rally get no good from it because we can t save or use in another program. Why do you think I bought Vue Infinite instead of Vue 5... Because it was advertised to do what I wanted at a much higher price. I beleive I and others would be willing to pay more for products if we can use them in other applications and not be tied up like a criminal telling us what we can and can not do once we buy it. :D Its not about protecting ones software but more about controling the customers. I can see why not being able to save material, atmospheres and much more would hurt the store from selling if people were going to be making new ones and giving away for free as has been done at other forums untill the store opened and Vue had to be encrypted. Just have to agree with William here. Very well stated. Theft drives prices up and I might add if it is worth stealing then it only adds to the over all worth of the product and can create an advertisment that goes beyound any add you could buy. It is very hard to change human nature. Best of luck to the Cornucopia team in sorting this out to a positive end. ;o)Wabe please open up your mind and see clearly.

At the very least, they should clearly spell out any restrictions. In large print, so you know before you buy, not afterwards.