On Content Paradise. So those wonderful monsters and sci-fi sets are available again! Yippieeee!

Yeah, but only some of them. There were a ton more things that were pulled off DAZ, I'd like to know where they are.

Attached Link: http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/search.php?provider=sa0

Omg yay! I had Havoc on my wishlist, but I could have sworn it was red? Ah well I'm just happy I have the oppertunity to purchase him again....now to put in some overtime for the extra play money ;) lol Thanks for the news.

I just want to know why he left there in the first place? There was a lot of speculation in a thread on DAZ but no facts that I ever saw, but I didn't read through all 30+ pages of the thread. And why some of his stuff is still there? And if some are still there, why not the ones that are part of that license? So many unanswered questions. I was planning on using many of those aliens in an RPG I'm writing, now they're gone. Frustrating.

From what I've gathered, he/they never really left. They just removed products from Daz and took a little time to set up their own site. A far cry from what he/they made it sound like in their Daz parting post where they were leaving 3D graphic creation permanently.

Yes, but as I stated above, they're either purposefully holding back stuff that was previously available on DAZ (if it's part of the license why isn't DAZ still selling it), or they never had the rights to sell it in the first place. He/She/It seems to be purposefully fueling the speculation fire.

Attached Link: http://www.sanctumart.com/index.php

Maybe you're remembering ALPHA. Apperently, if it's going to be re-released, it hasn't happened yet. -jjsemp

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 04:56

jjsemp, that seems to be the standard practice on CP. They have a similar connection to the Renderosity marketplace.

The stuff that's still at DAZ is the stuff they bought from him. ("DAZ originals" aren't always made by DAZ - these days, they buy a lot of their "original" content from PAs.)

I assume the missing stuff is still his own. It may be put into his store eventually (and therefore on CP). I suspect he has to repackage it, at the very least. He can't use DAZ's installer, with DAZ's readme, etc.

"They were under the DAZ original license, so he cannot re-release those anywere else. Personally I wouldn't be surprised that he's very sorry now ever signing that license with DAZ."<< Brokers are free to do whatever they wish with their products. Independednt contarctors, we know as brokers, are only bound by exclusivity, meaning being only sold at Daz (not sure rules regarding software). A brokering agreement would never have any non-competes in it, else it is no longer a brokering agreement. People/Companies discontinue merchandise all the time. Only in poserdom are most things available forever.

Yeah, but if it's a "DAZ original," doesn't that mean they've bought the product outright? He can't sell it elsewhere, because he doesn't own it any more.

However, I think DAZ is still offering all the SA DAZ originals. I'm pretty sure the items that are missing were not DAZ originals.

To the best of my knowledge... the remainsing SA items at DAZ are the 'DAZ Originals' that they bought from him, therefore they own the license to and can continue to sell as long as they wish. However, according to the terms of his agreement with DAZ, the other models were to be sold exclusively at DAZ. Therefore, even though he retains ownership of those models, he cannot sell them. I might be wrong, but that's my understanding. friendlyrogue

Right. Purchased items stay, brokered items don't. >"However, according to the terms of his agreement with DAZ, the other models were to be sold exclusively at DAZ. Therefore, even though he retains ownership of those models, he cannot sell them."< I have never heard of such a thing. The only situation, and I am guessing, that would justify such a limitation, would be if the items, likely clothing, were made with Daz allowed geometry or texture. Anyway that is just speculative. My main point, for any non-brokers reading, is you make, you own it until you sell it, and you can do with it as you pelase. Anyway. It is all moot. He is very talanted and will have bigger and better things I am sure.

Exclusive means you cannot sell your products at any other store as long as they are up in the DAZ store. Once you remove your products you can sell them wherever you like since you did not transfer the ownership of your products to DAZ.

Example: Lady Littlefox' Koshini products that are now all completely available over at RDNA.

When you sell products to DAZ they become DAZ originals and do not longer belong to you. That's the case with the Sanctum Art products that are still available in the DAZ store. He has sold them to DAZ.

The other products were sold through DAZ and still belong to him, that's why he now sells them in his own store and through Content Paradise.

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 09:30

Also when you sell product, rights to use all resource materials used to make them is given up too. No recycling of materials such as meshes, textures, etc.

Personally I think selling product in Poser is a bad idea. If it is good enough to buy, you'll make more in the long run. But you have to be patient. Most people sell for fast cash. Some people do like just making and selling one-offs, but it has it's draw backs. Selling old stuff is makes sense though. Just depends if you care about never being able to reuse it again.

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 10:25

I suggest that before you buy from CP that you check around first. Last Halloween I was looking to buy something at CP and accidently stumbled onto their development site and as a result couldn't buy anything. I found the same product in the MP here for about $3.00 cheaper, and when you are talking a product that is under $10.00, $3.00 is a substantial amount. CP was charging $8 or $9 for something I managed to get for $5 or $6 here.

That holds true everywhere, of course. I've bought things at PoserPros and Faerie-Dreams and 3dCommune for less than they were here. And of course if you wait for a sale and a coupon, you might be able to get an even better deal. It definitely pays to shop around.

Sorry, repackaging doesn't take THAT long. if he's done it for some it would be a snap to do it for the rest. Regardless, he haz zero information on his site about the whole affair, thereby ignoring the consumer and their questions.

he haz zero information on his site about the whole affair

Why should he? Whatever happened, whatever decisions were made, is between him and Daz. The figures that still belong to him are his to do with as he pleases. It's his choice to sell them or not. If he chooses not, there ain't a whole hell of a lot you can do about it. Message edited on: 01/14/2006 12:14

Glad to see him back...I'd definitely love to see him do some SciFi stuff for Apollo.

Why should he? Whatever happened, whatever decisions were made, is between him and Daz. The figures that still belong to him are his to do with as he pleases. It's his choice to sell them or not. If he chooses not, there ain't a whole hell of a lot you can do about it. Don't you think that's a pretty silly position to take? He's a merchant, his goal is to please customers. We're all here asking questions, there's 30+ pages of questions on DAZ, and who knows where else. I had just about everything he offered on my wishlist at DAZ and now 90% of it isn't available any more. I feel like it's being dangled just out of reach, and I can only assume it's on purpose, because there are no answers to the questions. It's money in his pocket, so it doesn't make sense to hold back, unless it's to create a false shortage and a false market. It's like Wizards of the Coast and their practices with selling the RPG Miniatures. They sell only random packs, you can't just go buy the ones you want. And they only produced a small number of certain minis, therby creating a demand that shouldn't have been there, just to fuel the collectible market, leaving the actual gamer out in the cold.

Erm, no, actually, I don't think it's a silly position to take at all. It's a realistic and logical position to take given the circumstances. He's under absolutely no obligation to you or anyone else to answer these questions. I imagine that given said 30+ pages at daz and elsewhere have garnered no answers that answers are not going to be forthcoming.

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 12:46

"I'm pretty sure the items that are missing were not DAZ originals." They weren't. The DAZ-hater misspoke. :-)

Well, Greebo, I can only say I hope you never run a business. Communication with customers is essential.

SanctumArts has made no secret of the fact that he doesn't like dealing with customers. If that's a problem, you're probably better off spending your money elsewhere.

"Regardless, he haz zero information on his site about the whole affair, thereby ignoring the consumer and their questions." Aha ... maybe because his business decisions or the agreements he had with DAZ are not made for the public? It's none of our business.

It's not like I have a choice when he's holding back what I want to buy. he can let someone else answer the questions. He probably should have chosen another line of work then...

It sure is if it means I'm going to pay money for his products. I want to know that he can legally sell what he's selling, because it could mean that I can't legally buy it. And besides, it's common courtesy. Hasn't ANYONE here heard of customer service? I thought not.

jjsemp ahhh yes that's him Alpha! pretty close to Havoc though, but I like his evilness better lol. Thanks for that!

To JeffAlberts and aeilkema,

Quote from the Sanctum Art homepage,

"Sanctum Art welcomes you to our new web site.
Recently, we launched with our new product "V.A.P. Grim".
Now Sanctum Art is happy to let you know about re-release of RD Phenotypes product line.
Many of you were asking for them - so here they are starting with "002-Havoc "

Key word here being "starting".

aeilkema wrote,

"Personally I wouldn't be surprised that he's very sorry now ever signing that license with DAZ. It really destroy the merchants freedom, but selling as a brokered merchant probably wasn't an option for him at all."

Well, now they've signed a license agreement with CP. :)

aeilkema, it just wouldn't be a thread mentioning DAZ without some of your vitriol. :)

Coldrake

And my question is, why the slow trickle? The stuff is already made? He has his own installer, very similiar to DAZ's, so it's simple matter of packaging up the rest. My whole point is, if you walked into a store and asked the manager a question about his business and/or products, and he refused to even acknowledge your presence, you wouldn't have a problem with that? That's what we're talking about here. Not to mention that I've purchased many of his products from DAZ, and even one from his new site, and wanted to maintain that look and feel with related products for commercial RPG products I'm creating. If I have no guarantee that they'll ALL be re-released then i'm spinning my wheels waiting and hoping, and buying.

I'm sure SA could make a lot more money if he was more attentive to his customers. But obviously, money isn't his #1 concern, or he wouldn't have left DAZ in the first place. He's not a manager at K-Mart, he's an artist. And Poser is just a sideline to his real work.

He did announce at DAZ (and it was forwarded here to Rosity) that he was removing his products from the DAZ store, and that some of them might never be available again. So he did try to warn his customers to beforehand.

Hi,
Jeff:
I had receieved your "web form" and it was in the form of statements not questions that I did not think it was needed to reply to it. We do not have to make public about our internal affairs that is at our discretion to do so or not. To reassure, you SanctumArt has all the rights and licenses to sell his products except for 3 PC items (HHI & 2 texture sets for HHI) that Daz owns. The future releases information is also at our discretion.

SanctumArt's products are only sold at 2 sites either www.sanctumart. com or www.contentparadise.com which both sites has the same products for the same prices. Thank you..

SanctumArtKitty =^_^=

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 15:04

Glad to hear from you SanctumArtKitty :) I love your stuff. Will you guys be supporting ApolloMaximus pleeeeease????!!!!

Randy said "I'm sure SA could make a lot more money if he was more attentive to his customers." Yep, I'd have purchased some of them (probably all of them), even at the way too high prices, if there was. Tis the reason I buy from people like Stonemason, Uzilite and Netherworks. Good people who care about their customers.

Hi PapaBlueMarlin,
With so many human figures on the market, it is so hard to support/devote to 1-2 specific human figures. We have not had the chance to look into Anton K's Appollo Maximus, so I cannot give a definite answer to your question. I am sorry.

Xena,
I am guessing "customer service" is not that big factor since you purchased products from SanctumArt before. Did you ever need help, if so did you attempt to contact me??? From my memory, Uzilite/wusamah is NOT really active in the forums same as SanctumArt. Customer service does not equal to be social interaction in the forums. If that you looking for when you purchase products, that is yours choice. I got the definition of "customer service" from www.dictonary.com-"Main Entry:customer service
Definition: assistance and other resources that a company provides to the people who buy or use its products or services." Thank you.

SanctumArtKitty =^_^=

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 23:24

Message edited on: 01/14/2006 23:37

Xena,
I am guessing "customer service" is not that big factor since you purchased products from SanctumArt before. Did you ever need help, if so did you attempt to contact me??? From my memory, Uzilite/wusamah is NOT really active in the forums same as SanctumArt. Customer service does not equal to be social interaction in the forums. If that you looking for when you purchase products, that is yours choice. I got the definition of "customer service" from www.dictonary.com-"Main Entry:customer service
Definition: assistance and other resources that a company provides to the people who buy or use its products or services." Thank you.

LOL Going to go out on a limb here and guess that talking down to your and/or being snide with your customers (and potential customers) is probably also not in that definition of "customer service."

The SA products are not my cup of tea really, but even if they were, I wouldn't buy from them mostly based on posts like this one and many of the ones at DAZ.

Talking down to people that give you their hard earned money is poor customer service even if you are attempting to answer questions, IMO.

As an aside I also don't like a lot of their ad copy wording for similar reasons, but it's possible there are some language barriers involved.

I guess your business decisions are your's to remain private (as certainly is your right), but it's ok to talk about your customers? They are not afforded the same confidentality? I realize mentioning that Xena has purchased from you isn't a huge deal, but she Xena didn't mention it, it IS giving out customer information on a public message board.

Well, I'm not going to get too far into this one. :) However... "I'll hope more merchants wise up" Frankly, that isn't through lack of trying for some of us merchants. A while ago, I contacted (then) Curious Labs about joining Content Paradise as a vendor. Good rapport going, very pleasant emails exchanged... and then absolutely nothing. I don't even get responses from further emails about the subject. So, there you go, I tried and that's all I can do. Bottom line is, think before you sell. Read what you're agreeing to and understand it and ask questions before selling at any brokering house, DAZ or otherwise. Frankly, I don't have one product at DAZ but I've been treated very respectfully by Dan Farr, Nathan and all the forum moderators and movers and shakers there. So, in some ways I'm a complete stranger there and that they DO treat me with courtesy regardless holds a lot of weight in my book. --- Thanks for speaking favorably about me Xena, it's appreciated. :)

Quote - Content Paradise as a vendor. Good rapport going, very pleasant emails exchanged... and then absolutely nothing.

I don't even get responses from further emails about the subject.

So, there you go, I tried and that's all I can do.

I find CP extremely lax in their customer support.

I sent them 2 emails back in December and never once got a reply back. My friend had a problem with an order back in November and she wrote them several emails and didn't get a single reply back. Finally she telephoned them on Monday or Tuesday this past week and got the matter straightened out.

I'd suggest calling them instead of relying on emails. Then when it's all hashed out, get it in writing.

Unless they pull up their socks with their customer support, I can't see that site being around all that long. When you try and get customer service and are greeted by constant silence, you begin to wonder just how serious they are in their online endeavour. Heck, you can't even post on their forums without a passport membership, and when you are having trouble with your passport, what are you supposed to do if you can't get a reply by email? I'd rather invest my money in places that cares about the person behind the dollar bills, instead of a company that is just in it for the dough as CP seems to be.

Sorry, but when I'm spending my money someplace, I EXPECT to get a response to my help requests and when I don't, my nose gets really bent out of shape.

Message edited on: 01/15/2006 02:14

Message edited on: 01/15/2006 02:15

You all may have noticed the huge threads, around Christmas, when Renderosity started bringing all marketplace items under the current rules. A lot of items were temporarily withdrawn while promo pictures were amended. It's maybe more customer relations than support or service, but since nobody said anything, there was a lot of speculation. As customers and potential purchasers, we were left in the dark, not even knowing the situation was supposed to be temporary. There's a little of the same problem of not-knowing in this case. The key point is that you can't trust the broker to tell the customers that you're working to sort out such a problem. But it is sometimes difficult to say anything without making the broker look bad. It isn't a problem if you have your own sales site, but you still have to do that work that a broker would do to promote items, and inform customers that there is something new to buy. It's good to know these items are reappearing. And these old items can be a good way of keeping people interested, filling gaps in the sort of sustained release schedule which keeps customers coming back to look at a site. The Phenotypes, as I recall, don't include anything which appeals to me. That's my problem. Keeping me interersted, and letting me know about something else, something different that might appeal to people like me; that's your problem.

I've never bought any of SA's work, to my knowledge. It's definitely of high quality, I don't think anyone could deny that. But the price has always beneout of my budget, and it's not an area of art that I tend to work in. I have to be honest, SanctumArtsKitty often causes me to raise eyebrows. She is the offical spoekesperon/customer service liaison for Sanctum Arts since he has acknowledged that he doesn't like doing it, and needs someone else to do it for him. So why choose someone who doesn't interact well with the customers? Time after time, her posts are either rude or belligerent, or are read that way by the people she is replying to. Take this last one for example, where she offers a very cold definition of CS from a dictionary. Yes, that's a correct definiton. But if you acept that as your role, then why does it take you so long to respond to queries in fora? Not everyone with a question will get in touch personally, it's well-established now that forum threads are a common method of communication. Also, customer support should also encompass POTENTIAL customers - those who have not yet bought anything but might consider it in the future. As such, your attitude needs a bit of shaking up, because as far as PR goes, this is not the way to go. I disagree with JeffAlbert regarding SA's level of disclosure, as well. Whilst it would be nice to know if there's some sort of release schedule planned for his previous work (since I now understand that he DOES have the rights to sell it himself - thanks for clearing that up, Anton!), cutomers do not need to know the full ins and outs regarding his decision to quit DAZ. You don't ask your local store the reasns why they relocated from one mall to another, or why a small business has decided to move premises. It's not our business, and I know very few merchants, online or otherwise, who go into that level of detail regarding their business deisions. For one thing, if it was an acrimonious split, there's always the chance that, by posting something, they could get into legal wrnagles with the opposing party... friendlyrogue (hereinafter changing his sig to jonthecelt, since it's what he uses everywhere else!)

Dont be discouraged bysome detractors mired in a myopic little fever swamps
of self righteous GIMME,GIMME ,GIMME!! entitlment.

Many of us Mature Adults make online purchases of poser products based soley on
QUALITY,USEABILITY and dont require any phony, pablum soaked ,cuddly
internet handholding
to feel like someone "cares" about us.
keep the goods coming on YOUR schedual.
Ill be waiting and ready to buy!!! Message edited on: 01/15/2006 06:01

Wolf, I don't know if your comments were directed at me or not, but if so, I think you mistunderstood my intent. I don't require hand-holding, or constant supervision by an Adult when working at my computer. As I stated at the beginning of my post, it is the price and the genre f the work which keeps me from buying SanctumArts work, not the customer service record. That said, not everyone is capable of doing such work as you are, and some people require help. Great, you don't, and you can get on and create your masterpieces without aid. But for those who DO require assistance every now and then, don't you think that a good Customer Service record counts for something? jonthecelt

That's something new for me but in this case I completly agree with wolf359's posting. Well said!

And I wonder what SA might have done to recieve such an enormous bashing on two different sites.

Emails are nothing one should rely on so when you don't get a reply from any customer service then don't imply that they don't want to deal with you... (

Okay I'm lost here, lol I've not yet made my purchase, however I did recieve a quick response when I asked a question to SanctumArt. It was informative, not personal and that was fine by me, I don't know them, nor they me and I got the answer regarding the product...it's all good lol. As for rudeness....I dunno can't read "tone" so sometimes a persons written word can be misunderstood...maybe??

That's entirely possible, foxseelady. I wasn't stating that Kitty IS rude... merely that on moer than one occasion, her remarks have been read or interpreted that way, and from the bits I've read, there's been no attempt to iron out any misunderstanding in the forums. I agree that a reply doesn't have to be a personal, warm, 'how's the family?' kind of thing. Information is what you want, that's what you should get... but whether for better or for worse, if you create a forum ID specifically for 'fronting' the PR/Customer service aspect of your company, then you better make sure that any communications between you and the public are clear an unambiguous, or that you keep an eye on a thread long enough to respond should there be any misunderstanding or further queries. jonthecelt