What would you be looking for in a new female Poser figure?

• Is another figure warranted?
• Compatability (or not) with other figures?
• User licence? Remember that everything made for the DAZ figures is considered to be a derived work and subject to their licence.
• Morph injection --- like/dislike?
• Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older?
• Realistic or cartoon?
• Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far?

Your thoughts ........

How about two new figures, one real and one not so real.
The not so real would be along the lines of either Vaughn Bode or Suydam (how about R. Crumb?).
The real one would be more along the style of a real woman. Sometimes you get tired of de-statuesquing a tall model into someone a little more human.
Ease of use would be handy as well. Compatibility is paramount which means she would also be unlincensed (so that she will play well with others). Use of standard morphing is probably the right thing. If she comes from Daz she may only be Vicky redialed. Take it from here

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 09:07

Is another figure warranted? Yes, and no. I think we DO need figures that are polygon-optimized (say, in the 50-70K range) so that they don't weigh a scene down. With polygon smoothing and displacement we don't really need a figure that has 90K polygons. (Actually, Anton has proven with Apollo Max that a lot can be done with 40K polygons).

Compatibility with other figures ... this depends. If you mean clothing compatibility, that means reusing joints and shape for the most part. I'd rather have a figure that is more realistic than a clone of an existing figure.

User license ... tricky issue, and I'm not a good one to comment on that as I am not a lawyer! Something that is fair on both sides is all I care about. 8-)

Morph injection ... hate it. It's a pain. If the poly count (see first point) is reasonable, we probably don't need to worry about it.

Age ... early twenties. Seems to be the most popular.

Realistic.

Ease of use ... If we stop thinking about older versions of Poser, it would be a lot easier to find morphs if we take advantage of the feature in Poser 5 and beyond to arrange morphs in groups. 8-)

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 09:14

Compatibility ought not to be a problem - I don't see why if Posette can be mapped to take V2 textures, any new figure can't be mapped similarly. Personally I don't think a new figure is really needed, but if it were, it would only be on the basis that (a) it could behave more realistically than V3 in a wider range of poses (e.g. hands above head) and (b) be more realistically shaped. Ease of use is certainly important. It's why I don't use EJ more. Morph injection - ugh. Done by Daz for Daz's benefit alone.

**** Is another figure warranted?*** In my opinion..NOT really but if you insist. **** Compatability (or not) with other figures?*** Just make her wardrobe wizard compatible **** User licence? Remember that everything made for the DAZ figures is considered to be a derived work and subject to their licence.*** therefore stay away from DAZ all together IMHO **** Morph injection --- like/dislike?*** PLEASE NO!!!! **** Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older?*** Early twenties with morphing ability to look elderly in face and body (remember Vicky-2!!) skip the young teen/prepubescent genre to avoid the inevitable TOS/gallery contraversies **** Realistic or cartoon?*** I see very little broad demand for yet another "toon" gal **** Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far?*** Yes we have which is why I am opposed to INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA runtime bloatware figures. Antons Apollo Max has shown that the COMMON SENSE CR2-OBJ-PNG approach is still quite viable without needing to have 800+ support files present for a fully functional/diverse figure Just my opinion.

I wonder if That perfect Figure is ever possible in Poser.I dare saying it's not and that is what poser's success is made of.Searching for the perfect(female) Figure that never come.Every Figure has an issue that is dissapointing so you are searching for a better one.Well I am still hoping .

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 09:28

Is another figure warranted? Yes Compatability (or not) with other figures? No User licence? Remember that everything made for the DAZ figures is considered to be a derived work and subject to their licence. Non - DAZ Morph injection --- like/dislike? Dislike Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older? Twenties upwards Realistic or cartoon? Realistic and complete Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far? Yes. But then, morphs can be grouped sensibly.

Is another figure warranted? - The more the merrier Compatibility? - Wardrobe Wizard, possibly V2 or V3 UV compatibility. Morph injection? - Rather not. Oodles of morphs may be useful, even if it weighs down the CR2. But please, please group them sensibly. The grouping of P5 and P6 won't hurt P4 users. Realistic or toon? - Realistic, please. Age: early twenties, maybe thirtyish. With a realistic body shape: between 5' and 5'5" tall, average sized hips, waist and breasts. - Not too many polygons. 40k-70k should get you there, especially with the smooth polygons feature of P5/P6.

A female version of Apollo please, along with oodles more support for them both in terms of clothing, hair and textures (displacement especially).

Anton's approach has the answers I'm looking for - a female figure that can be anything from a baby to an old woman in one package. Light on the scene and smooth to morph.

Personally I like the increased morphing ability of Cole Apollo - with just one or two (and I mean just one or two!) extra morphs for bone/flab/muscle definition. Basically: call Anton, get him to make Venus, and get as many developers behind the project making stuff for her - you'll have as near 'perfect' (whatever that means) as you can get in Poser today.

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 10:04

Possibly, it would have to be kind of special or different to sell me on another one. It would also need support out of the gate. I am thinking of using my video game rule on new figures Don't buy it until there is at least 10 things I want for it. Compatibility - If it can easily done yes, if it hampers progression then not as much. User license - Tricky stuff, I jsut like stuff to be fair. Morph injection - Like as long as it is needed. I hate working with Hiro, Aiko etc because they aren't INJection based and are too frigging huge and I can understand the need for it. But it isn't as flexible, smooth as it could be. Age- Flexible, starting in 20s I see the need for both, I want an "illustrated" set with slight exaggeration but I also want somethign that is realistic. Ease is important, but not if it cuts down on features. Jessie/James are probably easy to use as far as morphs, but that is only because there is none. Face room is useless for multiple reasons so I hate the morphs being there, making it not as easy to use.

I may ( again ) be the only one but I realy like the lower end of the poly game. Between P4loRes and Posette Realistic No injections Mid twenties, with a teen and older full body morph Realistic bending Realistic breasts instead of balloons. Free, LOL, I know Thanks for the offer anyway T

Is another figure warranted? If it offers something better that what is existing >Compatability (or not) with other figures? the only way to be compatable is to not improve. if it doesn't improve it isnt warranted >User licence? yes have some. >Morph injection --- like/dislike? Mixed. I think it could be better exicuted. include "basic" stuff but inject specialized stuff. >Age? mid 20s. i like the idea of age morphing but it would require clothing makers to support it with morphs. I dont see anybody rushing forward to support the aeon figures. >Realistic or cartoon? Realistic >Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far? Yes, organize.

Honestly, I don't think we need another female figure unless it's something that has not been done before. Just like when people start screaming for more everyday male clothing; the merchants make it and they hardly sell enough to make it worthwhile. Another female figure would probably end up being like Stacy or Lina - a cool figure, but with limited support and a small user base. I think the idea of a low-res figure is a good idea, mainly because everyone seems to want low polygon figures EXCEPT me. ;) A couple other ideas might be a 'monster' figure, made specifically to be morphed into creatures (Freak does this well, but he doesn't have enough body shaping morphs), an SD or 'chibi' figure (anime figure with exaggerated proportions, examples here, or maybe just a high-res head designed for profiles with more detailed expressions than a "full" figure. Just my thoughts of course, your creations are always impressive. :) Thanks, take care. SnowS

Is another figure warranted? If it's good Compatability (or not) with other figures? Mill3 texture compatability would be nice, but not necessary User licence? Have one people can understand Morph injection --- like/dislike? yuck Age? flexible starting at 18-20 Realistic or cartoon? both if possible Ease of use.? poser6 is capable of organising the dials into groups, support it or miss out.

Another figure warranted? Yes! (until one is developed with proper joints...even the availability of different joint setups based on an intended pose(s) would be an improvement)

Compatibility: Use V3 textures; otherwide, i the joints work right, I would buy regardless

Morph injection: overall dislike. If I were designing a figure, I'd include "standard" morphs in the cr2. Use morph injection for additional features, e.g., aliens, fairies, orcs, "enhanced" musclature for body builders, etc. This would also probably make "ease of use" an easier goal.

Age: mid-twenties to mid-thirties would be my target

Realistic with a reasonable number of polys please. As others have mentioned, smoothing overcomes some problems with lower poly counts; however, some "places" on the figure need extra, particulary where folks frequently "exaggerate" morphs, e.g., face, breasts, hip/buttocks...don't be too frugal on the polys there.

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 10:55

Tyger purr, it's interesting what you say about age morphing and clothing developers not being keen to support these extra shapes. I'm no expert, but surely it depends on how the morphs are developed in the first place. If magnets are used (I think Capsces used them for the Cole morphs for Apollo), then these could be distributed or sold as a merchant resource. Then the developer makes the clothing as usual and uses the magnets to make the additional morphs. Additional work, yes. But increased functionality and quality also. Surely as Poser consumers we should be demanding such developments(?). Poser figures and content are going to have to move ahead in their thinking sooner or later IMO. Why not sooner?

I think that Miki and Koji have shown that there is a market for figures that deviate from the Viki type. There is only so much you can do with morphs to achieve unique and ethnic looks. Another ethnic model with a natural body type and excellent facial expressions would be a welcome addition to the Poserverse that badly needs variety. As far as compatability goes - I would want to see Wardrobe Wizard support, some ease in fitting hair, and a Face Off shader to breath life into her own skin texture. That would be enough to make the sale. I'm only interested in realistic figures. Although PMD files sometimes make injection redundant, they can be useful and save deleting unwanted morphs in morph manager - which can be a chore. I would also vote for organised dials. ADS dials are nice but a little inconvenient when it comes to setting up with clothes. As for age, anything from 18 to 45 would be fine and useful to me but you'll get more sales from others at 18 to 30.

I too would like to see a new female figure which offer's more realistic muscularity. Of course not everyone likes female body builders or even muscular females but I do. Perhaps Anton will create a female ApolloMaximus equivalent with the same degree of figure options and morphs that could satisfy everyones needs from skinny females to heavy weight body builders. The main problem for me with a new figure would be, what to do with all the zillions of clothes etc that I have for V3 not to mention some amazing texture mats?

The main problem for me with a new figure would be, what to do with all the zillions of clothes etc that I have for V3 not to mention some amazing texture mats? There is nothing wrong with still using them. Variety is the spice of life. Well, in some cases, anyway. 8-)

Is another figure warranted?
The modern consumer's desire for novelty is insatiable, especially if the novelty is cute.

Compatability (or not) with other figures?
Possibly UV mapping for texture support, but this is less of an issue than it used to be and might not be worth the extra effort. I wouldn't worry about clothing or morphs. Wardrobe Wizard compatibility is expected, of course ;-)

User licence?
As liberal as possible, but no more. 3rd party contribution should be encouraged, but don't starve yourself.

Morph injection --- like/dislike?
HATE it. Please no!

Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older?
This should be, as much as possible, user selectable.

Realistic or cartoon?
I like toon characters, but realistic is probably more needed. I like characters like Aiko that can sort of straddle the line.

Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far?
I'd say ease of use is important, but in some ways we haven't gone far enough.

My ideal would be a character that combined the extensive morph shaping capabilites of Capsces' Roxanne with the facial expression capabilities of DAZ's The Girl.

I like the way the Roxanne character can assume a variety of face and body shapes, and have either a realistic or toony look, depending on settings. Victoria's body shape morphs always looked to me more like she was being blown up or deflated like a baloon. Roxanne looks a lot more solid.

That the face morphs introduced with The Girl have not become THE standard is still a mystery to me. She can twist her mouth sideways, bite her lip, and pucker up like she's really about to give a kiss and not just mispronouncing some pheoneme. You can really DO things with her tongue and teeth. I think that part of the reason so many renders are so uninteresting is that there is really very little control over the facial expressions and movements in most figures.

Oh, and while you're at it, could you give her the ability to raise her arms above her head without her shoulders and armpits morphing into hamhocks? And NO MORE BENT STRAW ELBOWS ;-)

• Jimdoria ~@>@

My take on this.

Q: Is another figure warranted?

A: Only if it is a substancial improvement on what's out there already.

The main problem I find with current figures is the joints, any substancial improvement here would justify a new figure.

Other things I would like to see: A good default body shape, more akin to Posette than the DAZ figures. More and better facial expression morphs. Inner mouth parts as seperate group. Leg IK off by default. One good quallity texture and a Walk Cycle provided with stock package. BODY named something else, so that Pose data may be saved for it. ERC controle of eyes from head actor, or some built in 'Point At' arrangement. Good genitals. One or two good small breast morphs.

Q: Compatability (or not) with other figures?

A: Texture mapping compatability with Victoria could be handy, though not essential.

Q: User licence?

A: Less restrictive would be nice.

Q: Morph injection?

A: MUST HAVE! But please leave the actor number (:#) out of the cr2 and pz2 files.

Q: Age?

A: 22 to 26.

Q: Realistic or cartoon?

A: Realistic, a toon figure must have some kin in the same style to be really usefull. Girl is a great figure, but needs at least a Guy, in similar style.

Q: Ease of use?

A: Yes. This probably comes down to sensible grouping of the morphs, putting the rotate channels at the top of the stack, and hiding empty targetGeom channels.

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 12:41

Another figure would be great if it is well executed. Compatibility isn't important, and may be a negative if it means carrying over problems from the older models. An open source type of license would be best. It's ridiculous that I've made so many (I think) really good facial characters with tools I've bought from DAZ but I can't share them with anyone because of their lousy license. I like morph injection and I don't understand the problems other people have with it. It's a great space savings. What's so hard about just loading up only the things you want instead of being burdened with a ginormous number of dials you never use? The first thing I do with morph injection characters is load them up, inject the morphs into them that I'll use regularly and then save that figure into the character library - I almost never have to inject a morph again. Then if I come up with something I really like I create my own morph, get the base character out inject my custom morph and have only the one dial to deal with. With the grouping available now for morphs it makes organization easier as well. I'd say if you have to have permanent morphs (non-injected) keep them to a minimum. This speaks to the ease of use question as well. Age - 20s-30s base, morphs to get older or younger. Realistic - the more realistic the better. Wyrmmaster or someone else will be along shortly to "enhance" the figure with their magnet sets shortly if it's popular. This is not to denigrate those who appreciate figures with fantastic proportions, as I'm one such myself on occasion - to quote the infamous Captain Zap Brannigan, "I find the most erotic part of a woman's body is the boobies." I personally have zero interest in toon characters. Ease of use? For a thing called Poser I'd have expected better posing by now. I haven't had a chance to use Apollo yet, but the other characters I've seen have a large range of positions they can't get into and look realistic. So easier/better posability would be tops. The ability to more easily scale body parts and still keep the figure together would be good too. I'd prefer the face start out as the most neutral structure possible (racially and beauty wise) to then be influenced by morphs. You may not be able to hit racial super extremes realistically, but I prefer a wide range of possibilities moreso than specialization. I think V3 has been pretty successful at this - though I've seen things go horribly wrong for her at the hands of some people. More polys in the face would help, as I'll reiterate below. Other things: IMPROVED FACIAL EXPRESSION CAPABILITY! I haven't used The Girl, so right now I'd say that Miki is the figure with the best facial expressions I've used. She's pretty good, but even she could be improved on. The DAZ figures are just plain awful at this, but their other morphs/deformers are superior so I still use them most. If there's any place that might actually need a poly count increase it's the face to give greater expressive range. Better muscle morphs and vascular displacement maps. Better normal person morphs also (a few extra pounds, weight dispraportionally distributed, more asymmetric morphs). Real bones and soft tissue or at least a better approximation? I'm tired of figures devolving into loosely affilated tubes of goo when I try and twist their forearms or their thighs. I'd ask for a Selma Hayek character morph/texture as standard equipment - but then I'd probably never leave the house. Anyway, I know it's an old topic, but I never get tired of it, so thanks for asking!

Hrmm.. yet another female figure. I kinda agree with many of the points in here. Yes one can be used but only if it's done right. I also like lower poly figures. Hence the reason why i still only work with posette. Super high poly figures are great for nudes. Nudes aren't my thing though. I've a long standing argument of why load a massively high poly figure only to cover it in massively high poly armour (platemail bikini's not my thing either). My scalemail works descently because it was made for a low poly figure. Something like that for vicky3... if you tried to get more than maybe 2 of her in a scene, at most, your pc would cry. havn't had the $$$ to get or play with appolo. I've heard lots of nice things about him and if everyone likes him that much then a female variant might not be a bad idea at all. Of course then i'd have to buy clothes and such for him and her and then it just becomes a huge cash outlay for a hobby and thus by default yet another topic for me and the wife to argue about ;)

I'm hoping for a non-daz-style figure that uses whatever new bending options are available in P7. non-daz-style means no footballer's shoulders, no wacky bending at all joints, no freakzillas with abs of steel, and no increasing polygon count in a vain effort to hide the bad bending.

Hi Phil, I think any new female figure would need to be an improvement on existing figures in order to have a chance to be successful. It would have to be seen as an upgrade rather than just more variety. Heres my thoughts, and they may be completely out of wack. I believe one of the fundament flaws in creating a figure is to make the default geometry in the Da Vinci pose. A lot of what are considered to be Posers problems actually happen in any modeling software if you start out with it as your basic pose. That includes Max and Maya. If you think about it, for instance, having the arms straight out is like making your default mesh with the character on tip toes. You shouldnt be surprised if your character cant walk flat-footed Theres been some talk about this subject on the 3d forums of other sites. Pretty much everyone Ive read agrees that its better to start out with a figure in a more natural position. Given Posers natural tendency for extreme deformation, I suggest that your mesh should be created with the shoulders, elbows, thighs and knees bent about half way through there normal range of motion. I would also suggest the legs be spread apart in a pretty good split, in order to prevent Posers infamous kidney bean butt cheeks. This should also make it easier to create conforming pants with parts that dont intersect. (you know what I meanthink Mikis cotton pants) I dont have the skill to create my own meshes, I so Ive never had a chance to test this theory of figure creation myself, but I think it makes sense. Ohand one more thing. If you do make a new figure, make sure her eyes AND head are capable of pointing at the main camera. Im tired of default figures whos eye roll up into their heads, or who point the top of their heads at the camera whenever the point at function is turned on. My 2 cents.

What I have always wanted? A smooth figure that serves as a neutral on gendered and that is low-medium resolution so it doesn't need the awful INJ/REM system. I would want a body that could go male or female (the Millennium figures actually are not bad at that) but that had a very anatomical body: realistic illusion of pelvic bones and bones in hands, feet, and knees; muscles and bone that morphed out from the smooth base; a very good rigging. Sensible mesh distribution, more on the joints and less on the back of the head ;) Face sculpting as well as body sculpting based on an understanding of anatomy. The face should be un-gendered and as un-remarkable in anyway as is possible. The P5 default room head is an excellent example of a relatively neutral base head. Geometry switching feature for development of new heads. Some propagating controls such as fingers controlled from the hands. This could even be extended into the body core... extremities controled from the trunk. Some body handles such as on the breasts and thighs for gravity illusion, even under the upper arms could help with realism. I am curious about the possibility of body handles for facial expressions or of lockable body handles for quickly roughing facial proportions as one can do with Face Putty. Facial expression! The Girl is excellent, so is Eszter, most figure are terrible when it comes to facial expressions. Toon or Real? the real issue is this... Toon figures are fun but for the toon work I actually do commercially I use P4 and Millennium figures that have been modified to be bauble heads, a character such as the GIRL is fun to play with but it is too distinctive for actual work, so even for toon work I want a realistic figure, but so often I have seen people apparently trying to do realism and then failing so miserably, Judy's face, Jessie's body, I would hesitate to connect them in any way with a representation of a human being... then you get details like ears, with Jessie they tried to get a human like ear but it is far too distinctive and it appears to have been modeled without any reference to real ears. The main thing I would want is a terribly realistic figure that was utterly neutral, something that could be morphed from without having to be first morphed away. If it was some how possible to make it take scaling as well or better than the first P4 figures this should permit it to be a universal figure from which characters of whatever age, sex, ethnicity could be created. I would love to have a figure that scaled from dwarf to supermodel, I doubt JPs can manage that range but poses that changed JPs with the scaling would be nice. Genitals? Yes. How to deal with clothes? I don't know. Affordable second skins would be nice as a transition to any conforming clothes that would come later.

Is another figure warranted? Depends on what it has to offer and to who. Compatability (or not) with other figures? Be nice to have texture compatibility with some popular existing figure, even if it's an aftermarket remap kit. Wardrobe Wizard compatibility would be a must. User licence? Depends on how the figure is generated - Original work or derived? Liberal as possible. Morph injection --- like/dislike? Too complex and prone to problems. Age? Variable, with more realistic face shapings, smile, and expression settings. Perhaps a mesh following the basic muscles and fat-pads of the face and body. Realistic or cartoon? My preference is realistic. Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far? Yes. I wonder how practical it would be to do a figure with (for instance) an underlying virtual "skull" corresponding to basic bones, carilages, muscles and fat pads with body handles or some such for shaping, and a "skin" that recontours accordingly (including eye placement). A self-contained product, perhaps a more complex base system figure with the capability to spawn simpler free-standing figures with a subset of expression and posing morphs might work.

Oh oner thing i'd like ... knees and elnows! The problem is it's useful for armour for adding armoured bits to cover those pieces. and of course knee and lebo pads for sports scenes i guess .. but for most clothing it might be a hinderance. It might work if the group was kept really really small though. Unfortunately with poser's rigging if you put any kind of armour over knees and elbows you get really limited. You have two options for doing it and both are bad. a conforming figure would bend in ways that will crush armour that normally wouldn't bend but rather be hinged on rivits. So if you have a really nice knee guard with a clover leaf shaped side wing.. when the leg bends you have compacted mush. If you go the smart prop route you either have to parent to the thigh/shin or for the arms, shldr/forearm. This causes thos smart props to fold out with one group and ignore the other so the bending looks bad. since most folks won't care for the added groups i'll just hush up now.

This should also make it easier to create conforming pants with parts that dont intersect. Please!! Yes!! Having legs apart and arms slightly raised also makes it easier to texture in 3D paint programs.

Is a new female warranted? Hmm.. Remember that one of the next few days, Content Paradise is supposed to spawn their new mysterious character that is said to be female. Somewhere behind the scenes also Renda2 rummages around (I think) and... Well.. We're up to our neck in females IMO. I'd rather have some more male characters. But that's just me. I know most people here are boobie-peeps and prefer females. I just don't. But one thing SnowSultan said peaked my interest: A Chibi/SD chara! Now THAT would be cool - a real chibi, not Koshini-esque or something like that but a REAL cute chibi. Cuteness sells as far as I can tell and Poserdom really NEEDS chibis! So a new female: Yes, if it's a chibi/SD :o))

Yes, please! A neutral figue that can be taken in many different directions. But it would have to be very good. None of the garbage that exists now that has to be corrected with postwork. I'm so tired of fixing bicycle tire shoulders, awful armpits, huge feet and hands and too small heads. It must be possible to create a figure that doesn't have to be fixed all the time. And wonky eyes. What's with all these eyes that are crosseyed? I find myself using Jim Burton's figures over and over again because they bend! It's not a plug, though he's very good, it just shows that it's possible to do. And maybe your cage thingy for morphing? Throw on the cage and start morphing instead of injecting. Don't know anything about this stuff, just thought of it. And...over at Polymage they have heads that have wonderful expressions. Elle, Eszter, Unity all have great expressions built in. So this would be on the wishlist for a new character. Some way to have that without it becomming huge. Well I got off track. Just my two cents.

I wish there were more male poser figures.

I actually want male figures to but it seems that figures developed as males fall into the six-pack abs trap while a female figure like V3 can be morphed into a male as mousclebound and robust as you would want. The real problem for me with figures is the fact that since Poser 4 you can't really do much with the scaling before they break up. The joint issue is interesting. I don't understand the techncal issues... can they be sculpted half bent? Can they be made with new body parts that are the joints alone? I think the way to save memory isn't INJ which sucks, but body handles and possibly conforming vertice magnets. A figure with a custom really thought out vertice magnet body suit having the minimum of nodes? How about an INJ figure (yuck) with switchig geometry so you could switch to high res body parts as needed. E.G. switch heads, hands, breats, this would work under an INJ system right? I have always wanted to be abble to switch the body to low res for under clothes or the head to low res for long shots. Geometry switching can be very interesting. Imagine geometry switching for a base clothes set that could be textured and transmapped. Cyber-HER has geometry switching to put cyber-prosthetics on the H.E.R. figure. Could switching be ERC for bends... no, too complex. A modular figure so that people can develop new heads etc to build diversity, or integral rather than conforming clothes. The point is that I think the figure would have to be a new conception of a figure, not just a new face.

Seraphira was working on one last Fall, but somehow she lost the files and had to restart. Since then I haven't heard anything anymore. I still have the images she posted and all I can say is wow...

Darn, I thought this thread was going to be about the new female figure from e-Frontier. Any word on her yet? Wasn't she supposed to be released in March?

Seraphira figure was remarkable. The most anatomicaly correct work I have ever seen. She was feeling unwell I believe. I did not hear back from her when I last wrote.

Another figure warranted? Yes if it is an improvement over what's out there now. Compatability. Don't care. License. don't care. Morph Injection? Definately. Unless you can come up with a better system. The worst thing is having a figure full of morphs you'll rarely--if ever--use and having to scroll through all those dials looking for the ones you do use. Age? 18-35. definitely realistic and easy to use ;) Thanks for asking.

Seraphira was seriously ill and took some time off to get well and care for her son. She's still working on Kaimira so any words of encouragement you could offer would be greatly appreciated. =================================== Is another figure warranted? Despite what wolf states above new figures are always warranted. I think what some experienced poser users take for granted is that new users have not invested as much in existing figures as we have. So people coming into the poser community are more apt to want the higher evolution of figures. Also there is a group of consumers who will be interested in any new figure coming out. Compatability (or not) with other figures? Again, this is more an issue for experienced users. I think having a product that represents someone's unique vision is much more appealing to new users. Compatibility sometimes appears to be a crutch to avoid actually supporting the figure with content. User licence? Remember that everything made for the DAZ figures is considered to be a derived work and subject to their licence. I think the typical licence of do not redistribute original files is sufficient. Morph injection --- like/dislike? I personally dislike it, but I think I'm curious as to whether there are new methods that could make it easier to use and load. Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older? Realistic or cartoon? Versatility is best. Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far? A combination of easy stock options as well as generic morphs for advanced users is a good idea. I think that it's important to keep in mind new users may not be as skilled or as patient with morphs and character setup ================================= These are just my opinions, but I hope my feedback is helpful, Phil...

"Definately. Unless you can come up with a better system. The worst thing is having a figure full of morphs you'll rarely--if ever--use and having to scroll through all those dials looking for the ones you do use." I admit I havent been around much but I Do own apollo MAX And I have not seen anyone complaining about havin to scroll through all of his built in morphs. and someone named PDJXMS(sp?) released an injection version of apollo gleefully touting "hundreds of injection channels" but later pulled him due to lack of interest from apollo users. Frankly IMHO, the whole DAZ INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA 800+ peices of runtime bloatware system ,was to sell the original V3 unimess to the lowest common denominator. that being people still using P4 on win98 machines with 256 megs of RAM.

'ADS dials are nice but a little inconvenient when it comes to setting up with clothes.' I've never used anything simpler, so long as the clothing has the ADS morphs included as with the 'Epic' clothing range. You simply apply the character ADS pose to the clothes, and you're done - fits great. Just wish there was more of it.

"Frankly IMHO, the whole DAZ INJ/REM/CHAN/VIS/DELTA 800+ peices of runtime bloatware system ,was to sell the original V3 unimess to the lowest common denominator." Well you are entitled to your opinion. But my workflow was greatly increased when I got V3. She's so much easier to work with than V2 or even v1. Same goes for the Mikes.

I can inject just the morphs I need. Later, if I need more, I inject them. If there are some I don't need, I remove them. What you call a "mess" is, to me, the best advancement to Poser since Pro Pack. To me "bloat" is having a 22+ meg cr2 in your scene when you only need a 7 meg cr2.

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 17:05

Hmmm, editing a message doesn't give you the option to attach a picture.

Oh well, here's an example of what I mean. Not only can I have three V3's in a scene for the price of one V2, each V3 will only have the dials I want. While the V2 will have dozens that I don't want and have to constantly wade through.

The morph inject system is just plain more efficient.

Message edited on: 03/30/2006 17:24

• Is another figure warranted? Always if the execution is correct. Varied resolutions would be nice... A 40-50k version and low res version of the same figure, that way those that like the 8k poly teeth would be happy and those that like to do largescale scenes can use as well. * Compatability (or not) with other figures? Wardrobe wizard support * User licence? Remember that everything made for the DAZ figures is considered to be a derived work and subject to their licence. Irony that they make plugins for another company. * Morph injection --- like/dislike? Dislike, Morphmanger works fine * Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older? 21 * Realistic or cartoon? Realistic, you can always morph it towards a toon look. * Ease of use. When it takes ten minutes to find the dials to make a figure smile, have we gone too far? Too a degree, Morph Inj makes things easier, but many don't like it. I think a figure with emotion would do well. Most figures seem to have one look for happy, one for sad etc... The Milgirls have been morphed in attempt to get that 18-22 look time and time again yet no one fills this area with a figure. I work with alot of 20 year olds and am yet to see a figure that covers that age group.

I would like to see a female figure made by Anton Kisiel :P He sure has a lot of talent, I specially like the bone rig, so original and eficient, but that's just me . . . If I u ask me about how realistic I would like it to be I'd suggest the body shape like Nao Nagasawa, altho she does have a body shape similar to Terai Yuki, I just love asian females, but would like to see some kind of neutral base figure if that's posibble to be able to re shape it in many racial body/face shapes . . .

I've got so many figures already that I don't need another one for many many many years, especially no females.

veering off the subject slightly a NON human NON toon(anime) base figure would be appreciated ... especially one with realistic animal characteristics. (sorry LD) How else to make such scifi characters as Kzinti? another human female? ugh. no thank you. another human male ..... why? nobody supports the ones we've got! toon female? heck no! I think theres eight or so now? and 2 males? INJ morph vs 'stocked' - personally I find the INJ REM system DAZ uses a pain in the butt. With the way they have it set up you cant move the folders to a less obtrusive position. IF daz could code them with non-fixed folder names then I wouldnt be quite as annoyed with them since as was mentioned earlier a blank cr2 is good for crowd scenes without eating too much space. And yes its possible to set up INJ poses that can be placed in any folder ... I've done it myself. (check out my free v3 and m3 morphs if you like) So I'd say 'stocked' morphs rather then INJ REM in most cases. waves at Phil thanks again for you guys making WW by the way .... just spent ten minutes wedging M3 into an ancient PW karate suit for a clients image :) Lyrra

Attached Link: http://www.philc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502

Thanks for the very positive responses, much appreciated. A general summery might be:-

• Is another figure warranted? --- Yes but only if it offered something new, better or different. Joint improvement, natural bending would need to be a high priority
• Compatability (or not) with other figures? --- Supported by Wardrobe Wizard is a must, UV mapping/shape etc not essential. Could even be perceived as as restrictive negative.
• User licence? --- Fair but flexible.
• Morph injection --- like/dislike? --- Mostly dislike but by no means unanimous.
• Age? Young teen, early twenties, mid thirties, older? --- 22 to 35 with morphs if possible to span a greater range.
• Realistic or cartoon? --- Realistic. In particular real body shapes not those of the more common sword wielding temple dwellers :) A neutral body shape that could be morphed into that style if required.
• Ease of use. --- High priority, probably easily achieved by sensible use of the Poser 6 ability to group the dials in the Parameters Window.

If you would like to continue adding input into this discussion you may like to post to the above thread at my site.

Again my thanks to all who posted.

Your summery will be known as the ``Seven Golden Rules of creating Poser-Figures.Honestly this sounds quite good to me. :)

On morph injection, I understand the arguments for and against, but I think more would agree that the concept is great, however the first/Daz implementation is somewhat limited. Consider this: First do not use :1 in any figure, including clothes, as suggested by lesbentley earlier in this thread (i.e. be FII compliant). So more that than 1 injection character can be used in a scene. Don't implement with the "2-level" readscript files that Daz uses. I don't have the details to hand, but Migal and lesbentley have posted the details several times on PoserPros. This won't save much space, but halve the number of disk I/O's - and thus the time - to inject. Skip all the unhide parts of the remove files, again just extra I/O & time. Don't over do the number of injection files. Having every one of the morphs in a separate .pz2 file is anal. Sensible groupings would save lots of time. Best option, have them both ways, then groups can be used when developing a character, but individual ones can be used for injecting characters to truly minimize disk file space. Incorporate routines - Python a la svld's new tool - to build the final injection character but using individual injection morphs. Daz's injection builder produces a file full of "fluff" (0 morphs), and is way too slow and clumsy done as a stand alone, which needs updates per character to stay current, which shouldn't be necessary. Done well, readscript base injection should work for us, not make us jump through procedural hoops. As to the original question: Yes, but please make it a unisex base, a la the old Free Market Family idea - including the FOSS aspects too preferably.

Let's see...

• Bigger boobs. The bigger, the better. They should be size JJJJ in the real world.
• Be able to morph the body to that of a child. Because everyone loves the controversy over computer-generated images with young-looking figures.
• 2000 INJ files that create a 200M figure file when all files are loaded.
• Dials to adjust the most obscure body parts. Because everyone wants to be able to create a larger "femortus minora" muscle. (Quick- find this muscle on a real person.)
• 100 INJ/ REM folders with names starting with "!!!!!!!" so they're listed at the top of every user's Pose library. Force every user to scroll down the list to get to their real Pose folders. Force merchants to use folder names like "!!!!!!!!!!!" so their folders will be listed before the DAZ, I mean, your folders.
• More polygons. Lightwave can easily support objects with 500,000 polygons. Let's start making Poser files with this many polygons.
• Super-extra detailed texture maps. I suggest using jpg files that are 8000x8000 pixels in size.
• Texture maps for every body part. Why stop at just "Head", "Body", and "Eyes". How about "Elbows" and "Knees"?
• More toon characters. Koshini, Aiko, GIRL, HER, etc just don't give enough variety. And in case anyone misses the sarcasm, this is a list of things NOT to do. --John

LOL! How about 8000 by 8000 texture maps of each finger tip so you can give them finger prints that will stand up in court?! (Hee, Hee)