Okay I'm going to say this as tactfully as I can and I hope you all understand where I am coming from here.

We as staff can't discuss others issues in detail like that thread was requesting (no, demanding) so we state over and over again that the person involved needs to contact the appropriate persons if they have an issue about their incident and want to discuss further.  And still there was no productive discussion going on there at all, it was simply started because someone else that doesn't have all the facts and info wanted to stir things up.  Members sharing "some"private communications in a public forum without the permission of both parties of the communications is very inappropriate. The manner in which the thread was started didn't invite a productive discussion and it wasn't going that way so we locked the thread.

And to be honest since we will not discuss the details and facts then certain parties can twist things and spin them however they want to make it look like the store staff is 100% at fault.

Its very difficult for us sometimes because we have to maintain the privacy of the issues on a specific situation therefore nothing we could say in that thread was going to turn it around to a productive discussion because that wasn't the intent of it in the first place.

choice % # Renderosity is much faster than most other sites I visit. 1.2% 8 Renderosity is somewhat faster than most other sites I visit. 5.6% 38 Renderosity is about the same speed as most other sites I visit. 16.5% 113 Renderosity is somewhat slower than most other sites I visit. 33.1% 226 Renderosity is much slower than most other sites I visit. 43.6% 298  

total votes: 683

I use a family member's computer to get online when I can. This family member was on dial up service and then upgraded to broadband at considerable expense. The fixer's comments about people always whining are due to things like the site poll shown above. It has been that way since I have been a member and much longer for others here longer than me. Once it is corrected it should reduce a large number of whining.

I also notice that many, long time artists have either left or are considering leaving. This bothers me a great deal since these are the backbone of renderosity and give alot of help to myself and others here. When this many long time artists jump ship something is not right.

I keep hearing that the membership still grows. That may be true. But you are losing your standard bearers and replacing them with new people, most who are not nearly as skilled or helpful until they get some experience.

I know my brother also asked once if the speed on renderosity would be faster when this changeover was finished and he was told, "I hope so". That is not a response I would expect to hear from a customer service person in any business or form.

Just my thoughts,

btw: my brother once told me he deleted a post he had made in the writer's forum and then received an IM from a moderator there saying that they could still read what he had originally posted.

When will the changeover be completed? Thanks.

Very clever **.......**i heard my end of the story from armourbeast and a few others and because of language differences these people were the ones to explain first hand from the merchant what had happened..and i know said merchant is greatful for this support..and then i also see a little bit of a turn around as you state you can look at our mail(in an emergency) but we cant show yours(in an emergency)???.Is there a rule for that also?

I said its inappropriate to post the communications (these are emails I'm speaking of here not site mails) without the permission in the forums. We don't share emails or site mails for that matter if we were to have to review site mails for one of the reasons I listed on the public forums ever. In a situation where its necessary to review harrassment, threats, etc..,we don't share that info with anyone else. That is not at all the same thing primaltruck.

And I understand you are getting secondhand information from one side of the issue which was my point. You are being given only the information some "choose" to share not the complete facts..

Damn you should be a lawyer..sorry sorry..i really didnt mean that..It is very frustrating then to only get one side of the story..and i didnt understand that was an email communication that was presented.that isnt right..(but it was very informative).i am sorry for assuming this..it is still very very frustrating...i may have to turn my avatars face red....

Heehee. don't turn your avatar red, LOL

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2666749&page=2

@mps: My statement about "whingeing" wasn't in any way about the site speed, I also ticked the box to say it is much slower than other sites and I share and understand that frustration, although since my upgrade to IE7 it appears faster.

What I was saying was about the constant sniping and attacks on the admins here who actually do a bloody good job in sometimes very difficult circumstances especially when members don't know what goes on behind the scenes and accuse certain admins of favouritism and other underhand methods to get people banned! Because of the system in use no "one" admin can make a unilateral decision on anything, it always comes down to a majority decision just like good old democracy.

Constanrt bleating about how unfair the system is doesn't wash because it couldn't be any fairer, unless you or anyone else know of a fairer way, I'm sure the admins here would only be too pleased to hear it!

No offence aimed or intended at anyone!

I'm happy to see this discussion is still open. The key word is discussion! As StaceyG may well make a good lawyer, primaltruck would make a mighty fine lobbyist! :) One thing I notice: Questions are being answered as best as can be by the Staff (Bravo!), but underlying much of this are: concerns, problems, and serious flaws, about Site Administrative power, and judgement within this thread as well as many others.

I ask: Is there an attempt by the Administrative Staff, as a whole, to look into these matters, and discuss as well as weigh them on how they effect the members of Renderosity?

SInce the "Change Over", I have been left to feel "The Marketplace" (not the Merchants, but the Owners) have given up on the value of the Members that post at the Renderosity Gallery. It appears that any action that 'rocks the boat', is swept aside. I have heard lots of complaints, I have seen lots of Members and Merchants banned, I have seen many other Member just leave on principle, and as with all of them, I get the same "Texas Two Step"; "We only discuss these problems directly with the Member!"!

I ask: Is there any attempt by the Owners to look into these matters, and weigh their effect their Bottom line?

As an Artist, an image comes to mind: A Suggestion Box inside an office, with the other end droping into a garbage can in the back alley. :(

Upon reading this, all I can think of is "Never put anything incriminating in writing" LOL ;op

Well, the thought of this has come across my mind as well... I wouldnt doubt it, actually. While Im not gonna sit here and say oh yeah, they do that... the possibility is evident. And comon'... if they do read emails, do we really expect an admission?? Thing is, since its an internet based company, they can make rules such as this stick... and since you have to agree to it before gaining admission, theres not much you can do, except not use email/IMs/whatever the heck you wanna call it, to communicate. Esp when the innocence thereof is in question. 

On the other hand, if you read mine, youd know Im pretty much over Rendo. This used to be such a fun place, and now all the fun has been replaced with terror, anger and even rebelliousness to all the rules that suddenly keep popping up out of nowhere. Not to mention controversies possibly being exposed every other day. Rendo has basically turned into a souless hollow beast that seems to only be interested in money. I mean, look at all the new ads that cheapen the look of the site. I think instead of implementing that crap, you should have fixed the site speed issues for those who complained. I cant help but think those ads slow things down as well. Ive seen so many members leave of their own volition in the last so many weeks - and others banned (unfairly, IMHO) and no doubt theres more to come. Its just not the Rendo we called home anymore.

And you can argue that its just my opinion, but many others share it too. A billion chinese people cant be wrong when they say the rice is bad. I think the perfect imagery to convey what I and many others feel is just like Dennis said - A garbage can on the other end of a suggestion box. Sorry if this offends... I have nothing against the admin and I know youre just doing your jobs. I have a strict policy of never shooting the messenger... unless, of course, theyre packing heat LOL

Quote - Just an FYI, the copyright agent posted a final comment in the locked copyright forum thread in case any are interested in some of the facts.

seems its one rule for the members and one for the admin...and this is definitely an us and them scenario stacey.....one admin closes a thred...anthoer, yourself...says it was locked because it was non productive and all the other crap and 5 hours or so later a member of the admin posts in a locked thread.......how and why can this be.....if its locked it's locked and should be for everyone.

thing is the admin have now set a precedent. they did what you said they would not.....now if someone starts a thread to refute what was said..re the warnings...one of them being a mistake...will the thread be locked......i find it reprhensibale that a tactic of posting to a locked thread was used in order that no response can be given.....ihave to say the ethical standards here suck....and please dont use the same arguement as the agent and say the mearchant brought it up first......agent broke you're own rules now go give her a warning.....and please ask karen to keep her finger away from the lockdown button.

billy

The copyright agent wasn't on until after the thread was started, not moving in a productive manner and after it was locked. And let me clear up the reason the thread was locked was 1. because the discussion wasn't for productive reasons in the first place  2.  the vendor came in and posted emails that she wasn't given permission to post.

JenyK being the copyright agent wanted to set the record straight since the vendor came in and gave half truths of the story.  If you all want to start a thread in the copyrigth forum regarding this to discuss with JenyK, pleaes feel free.   Karen and the rest of the team last night and early this morning did what was best for that time.  The copyright agent, decided to give the facts from her reviews of the issue since the vendor wanted it public. Thats it.

See how it goes? If you say nothing (which we couldn't because the vendor hadn't brought it publically herself at that time) we are horrible,  once it was brought public by the person with the copyright concern herself and the copyright agent decided to give the facts, that is horrible to?

Yeah I suppose she could have put it in a different thread?

Sorry but we are human too and this gets really really frustrating. I am sick today and if I am being harsh I apologize

you suppose it could have been said in a new thread.....and please don't put words in our mouths....the admin posted in a locked thread...highly unethical and highly bogus. i wasn't on till after the lockdown...why couldn't i post in the thread....we're human too stacey.....it seems that the admin are allowed to be more human than the members from where i'm sitting.....again you use the non productive reason for the lock down...you say they placed a personal mail in post..then remove the post ......again sorry but it sems the admin are lock happy,

billy

Also let me add that Billy you started another thread about this in the copyright forum so from this point if this thread continues it needs be regarding the original topic of the site mails which I have answered several times already.

Any comments regarding the copyright thread needs to go in the copyright forum so you can get the appropriate person(s) responding.

so why post a link of it here ???????

hows this....you say you only read mail if someone complains or someone harrasses someone else..........sorry but all this is bullshit YOU READ PEOPLES E MAILS then complain when they show one of yours that leaves you in a bad light.......if you don't think this is pertinant i dont know what is

billy

Because it was talked about in this thread Billy, then you started another thread in the copyrigth forum with your same issue so you can discuss it in that thread that you just started 

Site mails are on the Renderosity site, emails are not they go through the email clients. Site Mails are addressed in our TOS to which you agreed when joining this site Billy.  You agreed to the TOS when joining right? It was there then so I'm really confused about the sudden issue with it?

You know i want to have a completely different additude about this and praise everybody for doing a great job...and being so very smart as this is such a sticky subject..Now if the place lightened up on its rules and took just a little more into consideration and maybe thought how can we be nice and run a bussiness too.people might want to actually help and be more considerate themselves...really i have never found this kind of bickering helpful and think maybe another aproach is neccesary.i do like this place alot and find it very unique and in all my years here i have never seen this kind of stuff happening or maybe i wasnt paying attention...but now i am paying attention and see there are issues that arent getting any better bickering..and after this set of threads i see that communication is the main problem..i left here on my own but now have second thoughts that i am abbandoning a place i like..and i think it was a personnel message from dennisreed that made me take another look and maybe make a plan..and maybe give another chance to working on making it better..now i am doing this on faith that someone else wants it better also.and hopefully the administration will see this as a kind thing and try to be kinder and have a little more consideration ,I will too.who knows?we have tried everything else...I find it easier to deal with people who like each other and me and this sure isnt building any bridges.

It doesn't leave staff in a bad light. If a member of staff communicates with a member, that communication is between the staff and that particular member..when that member is not happy about whatever was in that communication, sends that communication to someone else, and that someone then proceeds to post that communication, or even parts of it,  all over the site, or even in one post in the public view in retaliation, instead of keeping it where it belongs, then it becomes an offense.

If a staff member is required to read any mails of any member for the reasons mentioned {harrassment, threats, etc.} they do not go out into the public forums announcing what was said..they deal with members in private. And they only deal with that member, and nobody else. So anyone coming in to defend whoever, is not going to get the answer they are seeking, because the issue is not with them, but with another member.....

Again, staff does not activaly run around reading everyones emails/sitemails

a site mail is still an e'mail and i'm sure you know what i meant stacy.

As stated several times now, we do this only in cases that require it, harrassment complaints, threat complaints, etc.  whats the etc........ cos from what i read in the mail that was posted, what was being said had nothing to do with the first three.......oh and i abide by the tos...does it say a member can't query it or ask questions about something within it when it's raised in the forum....right?........so why the confusion? all i saw in your responses to this thread were adamant no's unless of the things mentioned. etc bing one of them.....nice. so i take it etc covers any reason you deem fit. even if it means reading what people say you don't like or have bugged you.........throwing the light onto something else in order to darken the view of another is an old trick sadly it's also a common one...you can't blur the lines ...THE ADMIN DO READ THE MAILS they can do this anytime they wish they don't need a reason.......i'm mentioning it because you seem to be making this point obscure......the etc in your reply means this.......as you said IT"S IN THE TOS........so when asked the original question a simple yes would have sufficed instead of all the rhetoric.....

billy

ps you can have the last word stacey cos i reall am sick of the bullshit

The little demonstration from JenyK is a joke. We are talking here about Aiko poses and no about V3 poses.
For me its a big diffrent.       

Lets keep this thread confined to the site mail issues as Stacey has asked.

Thanks!

jumping back in here for a moment...

Stacey, I was reading through the now-locked thread located in the Copyright Forum (originally posted to the Poser Forum) and I noticed something interesting.

Without my commenting on the rightness or wrongness of it having been included, there IS a site mail or email (not sure which it is) being quoted in that thread...it's from a rosity admin to a member...I guess it's from DebbieM (it was a little hard for me to follow all the whos, whats & whens in that thread...if I'm wrong on who it's from, I apologize to DebbieM in advance)...but it quotes the rosity admin regarding this very topic of reading members' private messages...

So last night during the discussion you and I had here, in all of the specific scenarios I asked about whether admins would resort to reading member's private messages, I'll concede that I did NOT describe a scenario that matches the topic of that now-locked thread...I concede that point right up front. But with the wide variety of scenarios I DID describe, you had no trouble insisting that, of course not, members' messages wouldn't be reviewed by any of the admins in those circumstances...

Yet, I was really amazed that in DebbieM's mail message she jumped at the opportunity to emphasize that members' site mails & emails could be monitored. It really leaves quite a different impression on this topic compared to the No, No, No, No, No, No answers you gave me last night. I would also point out that one of the scenarios I described to you was a dispute between a merchant and the admins (a little different topic, but not TOTALLY out in left field) and your response was still "No".

The scenario in that locked thread wasn't a case of harrassment or threat...though I guess you'll say it's covered by that fuzzy "etc" you always included...

Still, the conspicuous willingness DebbieM expressed to in fact scrutinize private messages appears quite out-of-step with the impression you left us with last night on this subject.

We can start enconding our messages, we can use any kid's code as A is Z and Z is A.
Even using simple codes, each member's group using their own kid's code multiplying by the number of members and IMs it will be just enough for making any Bush more mad than already he is!

Svool Dliow!

So, if you have your doubts about your e-mails, what you are going to do? No writing? You have been monitored everywhere. There are a lot of control idiots out there; this community is no exception whatever explanation you get. The paranoia and the control will take over one day. Do not worry about that. That should tell you what kind of society we are living in today.

Quote - We can start enconding our messages ...

ROT26 would be the best choice.

The scenario in that locked thread wasn't a case of harrassment or threat...though I guess you'll say it's covered by that fuzzy "etc" you always included...

Yes, it was. The member had been accused of spamming other members.

karen1573 said:

Quote - The scenario in that locked thread wasn't a case of harrassment or threat...though I guess you'll say it's covered by that fuzzy "etc" you always included...

Yes, it was. The member had been accused of spamming other members.

Yes, it was...what??

Certainly you're not suggesting "spamming" is harrassment? Certainly you're not suggesting "spamming" is a threat?

[BTW, If I followed that locked thread correctly, I understood that the merchant demonstrated the messages had been sent from their own computer using Outlook Express and NOT on R'osity's mail system...but (as requested by jumpstartme2 & StaceyG) that merchant's situation is not the subject of this thread.]

If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that my actual point was how DebbieM jumped at the opportunity to emphasize that members' site mails & emails could be monitored and how that left a totally different impression on this matter compared to the "No, No, No" answers Stacey had given.

From Stacey I heard basically this: We consider members private messages to be just that...PRIVATE. But in extreme situations such as if someone is being harassed or threatened by another member, we might, reluctantly, have to read member's mail.

From DebbieM's statements I almost got this impression: Reading members' private messages...sure, no problem.

Sorry, it's just the way it comes across to me. I guess I think the members are entitled to know which it is rather than having a widely different threashold or standard depending on which admin you just happen to be dealing with at the time.

"Posted Wed, Sep 27, 2006 10:27 am, Edited Wed, Sep 27, 2006 10:31 am

When will the changeover be completed? Thanks." (mps)

???

Thanks.

"My statement about "whingeing" wasn't in any way about the site speed, I also ticked the box to say it is much slower than other sites and I share and understand that frustration, although since my upgrade to IE7 it appears faster" ----  (thefixer - above) .............

Hello, kind soul:

To my simple thinking, this is a central 'issue' for all members at this most wonderful site. One which was directly and indirectly dismissed for far too long.

Many of the other 'whinings', I and others here have expressed, can likewise be traced to such dismissiveness toward members relating to a myriad of questions, concerns and comments.

From my humble perspective, it's one thing for members and management to have disagreements. That will happen.  It's quite another, however, when either side of an issue gives no 'creedence' to the other's viewpoints.

Thanks for your comment regarding site speed above. If you have followed the long, littany of posts regarding site speed at this most wonderful site, you surely have seen it posted more times than an FBI ten most wanted lists in all the American Post Offices. By countless, different members over YEARS. (Attempt here at HUMOR?)

Yet, in many instances, those 'whinings' were answered with statements similar to, "Well, MY computer is running FAST" for this site, by many management staff. ???

So, that begs the next stupid question from this old geezer: Is the current site speed poll NOT true? Are all the members telling falsehoods? Could it be that the members actually DID have problems in this area? For years?

All the members are saying, for the most part, kind soul, is to LISTEN to them. Let them KNOW that they are HEARD. Then, instead of ruffing things off or just not even responding to honest questions, just answer people. Honestly.

If the management decides that they are not going to do something a member(s) requests, just say so. Upfront. No evading answers. No non-responses to questions, whatsoever.

Give them the best, possible time frames for when things will be finished. Even a 'best guess' reply that can be later updated as progress or lack of progress may warrant is better than nothing or "I don't know". Or, "I think".

In my past business dealings, kind soul, I learned one thing quickly:

I judged the number of 'whinings' I received from employees as a fairly good judge/measure of how well the employees felt they were being received and treated. Simple as that, my friend.

I also learned ''which'' people who whined were whining about true ''problems'' in my manufacturing facility or just whining to whine. Understand? And, as mad as I was to hear such 'whinings', if I was getting them from proven, reliable people who had lodged past complaints which I found to be 'accurate', I LISTENED.

IF an employee 'whined' to me about his machine not running as fast as it normally ran (less parts produced - less profits for company - less wages for employees) or about his machine making too many 'defective' parts (same reasons in above parentheses), I considered that employee a GREAT employee! The kind of employee ANY company should WANT. Understand?

For, to dumb old my way of thinking, kind soul, I WANTED my employees to tell me if and when they were having troubles in my factory. For, it made it bad for ALL of us who worked there. Management AND employees. One needs the other to make it the BEST environment. Simple as that, from my humble perspective.

Like two people dancing. It works best when they both are in 'unison', agreed?

Are there some who only 'whine'? Sure. Always will be.

I just continually see LONG time members leaving this most wonderful site. YEARS of experience. LOTS of friendships which then makes this site GROW and prosper even more.

I would think that an artistic website would want to have the most prolific and talented artists at their site and for them to STAY forever. So, when a person came to view this most wonderful site for the first time, they would see what COULD be done in these artistic endeavors.

When I first view a new site, kind soul, I don't look first to 'how many' members they have on it. I first look at HOW GOOD the artworks at that site are. Numbers, in art sites, to me at least, are irrelevant.

Finally, to StaceyG: Hello, kind soul.

 I see above, earlier, where someone told you, "THAT'S BULLSHIT!"

How is it that you answered that reply but not one of mps earlier inquiring as to when the ''changeover'' will be completed? Even a 'best guess" estimate.

 Does one need to cuss and swear and say WTF? in threads to get answers to sincere questions? If so, let me know. WINK.

Btw: is TOS applicable to either above, two examples? SMILE.

PEACE to you and yours. Thanks, in advance, for any/all help.

My best,

TallPockets.

I also see, above, where DennisReed, asked a couple of questions. He even numbered each one for easier referencing.

From my humble perspective, when you've gotten to the point that the Dennis Reed's of this site are in this 'forum' asking such things, you've accomplished alot!  (sad truth). ~SIGH~

I hope Mr. Reed will, indeed, get his above two questions replied to here.

THANKS, again.

My best,

TallPockets.

Spamming is an abuse of the Renderosity mail system. If we have a claim from someone that they're receiving spam then we obviously need to check into that.

Quote - Spamming is an abuse of the Renderosity mail system. If we have a claim from someone that they're receiving spam then we obviously need to check into that.

Just wondering..then, if someone doesn't like me, or just wan to harm me or something, can they just tell the Staff that I've been spamming them, and then you will look into my IM and e-mails? Doesn't sounds good.

We can't look into your emails but if you are reported for spamming members we will first try to get a copy of the spam Site mail from the person making the complaint and if we show it looks like a spam mail then we will research to find out if this is indeed the case.

Tallpockets, this thread is about site mails, not site speed. there are already thread(s) regarding this so please post your questions in the appropriate thread

Well, I'm gonna bow out of this discussion as there seems to be little progress being made on the subject and few other members seem concerned about it.

I still don't believe the matter has been addressed here (and I've asked a couple of times) regarding the apparent discrepency in attitudes among admins regarding monitoring/reading members' private messages...ranging from StaceyG's obvious reluctance to look at our private messages to DebbieM's clear willingness to do so. Other members can continue to press this issue if they're interested.

And for the record, let's not forget that the original accusation made by the admin against the merchant discussed in the locked thread about using Rosity's messaging system for 'spamming" turned out to be a false accusation.

{waves to Hedda Hi hon...nice to see you...how's ya doin'? }

Cliff-dweller

The bottom line for you and other members is that the TOS states (and everyone agreed to the TOS when joining and this section has been there for a long long time) if needed we can review site mails. We do not MONITOR site mails, we don't just go in for no good reason and read. Debbie didn't go in and read the site mails or the error in thinking the spams were coming from Renderosity sytems wouldn't have happened so she hasn't got a "clear willingness" to do so or she would have then. She was letting the person know that if we got reports of this again she could and would which is totally understandable.

So that is the answer to the question plain and simple.

What I have asked several times and no one seems to want to answer is  why would you agree in the first place then now act shocked? I just can't get my hands around that because if I had questions about what that meant, I would have asked upon reading the TOS when registering. All members can rest assured that as long as you aren't abusing the Renderosity systems by threatening, harrassing, attacking and spamming we aren't concerned about what is in your Site Mails. That is the way its always been and the way it will continue to be.  As stated the only time this happens is when there is good reason to,  so anyone who isn't using the Renderosity mail system to do the things listed above, don't have to be concerned with anyone reading their site mails.

While I am at it let me also be clear that if we have to review site mails for the above listed behaviors, we aren't looking at everything there, we are looking at the direct mail to the person being threatened, attacked, harrassed or spammed. And we can tell that without drilling into the site mails each but by looking at subject line and username sent to.

I'm not sure how much more clear I can answer the original question than how I have.

What I have asked several times and no one seems to want to answer is  why would you agree in the first place then now act shocked? I just can't get my hands around that because if I had questions about what that meant, I would have asked upon reading the TOS when registering

Maybe because the TOS is written in Legalise and there are quite a few members who English is not their first language and would have a hard time reading it. hell, my first language is english and I have a hard time reading it. (and I can read perfectly well.) add in the fact a lot of ppl just click through or if they don't understand something they don't ask because they feel asking makes them look foolish, etc. (My wife teaches ESL at University and often has to overcome a students pride in these areas.. trust me, its something that happens a lot)

also add in the fact the TOS is written for the laws of where Rendo is based. those laws do not always apply in other countries (yes I know it's stated that the laws of tennasee apply, but does everyone know this? no, it's in the TOS......) causing more confusion into the mix.

may I suggest you get someone to sit down and ethier make the TOS with a simpler language set or do a FAQ breaking down each section? that would help a lot of the ppl that are in the ESL situation (or like me, how find the TOS harder going than reading LOTR)

Hi Stacey, thank you for your response...I do appreciate it and also think it is the sort of comprehensive answer I was asking for...so, I thank you again.

In exchange, I will try to answer YOUR question, though perhaps you meant it to be a rhetorical question to make a point rather than actually seeking an answer. Here's one anyway...

When I joined Rosity, I was interested in looking at the tutorials and at uploading images. I'm sure I looked at the TOS at the time, but I think we'd both agree it's a rather long document (probably out of necessity)...right now it's about 4 full page screens (and that's using a much smaller font size than was in place when I joined) plus there are links within the TOS that take you to other pages (such as the copyright policy). It's a lot to read & absorb and I'm sure I focused the most on the parts of the site that I wanted to use. That's just human nature and most of us aren't lawyers used to reading lengthy legalese documents. If it was there when I joined, I probably saw the part about private messages, but since I didn't know anyone here that I'd be sending IM's to, I wouldn't have paid as much attention to it as say the gallery policies, so it didn't sink in...my mistake, to be sure, but again just human nature.

As you also know, for many members here, English is not the language they normally use, so there may be issues in fully understanding all of the parts of the TOS. I'm not saying that's your fault, but you ask "why" people might be surprised at site mail being monitored...they may never have fully understood those sections of the TOS.

Stacey, you have to work with the TOS everyday as part of your job. I expect you know it inside and out...probabaly better than any other admin here and that's quite commendable. The run-of-the-mill Rosity member hasn't memorized the TOS, and I don't think you really expect us to. Most of us know (or should know) the TOS sections that directly affect the parts of the site we use. So MY first reaction to this subject was, huh, I would think private messages are private.

So that's the answer to your question. If a member is being harrassed or threatened, I fully support the admins using all the tools available to them to put an end to that sort of behavior, including checking private messages...and I think most other people would agree. But I think you and I can also agree that there have been on-going concerns by the membership about whether Rosity rules & guidelines are always enforced equally & equitably from member-to-member or by admin-to-admin...as hard as you might try to discuss issues and reach a consensus view, differences can & do develop. So I have been pursuing this subject with that on-going concern in mind. Maybe DebbieM was saying the exact same thing you were on this subject, or maybe there are differences in views between the two of you...it doesn't really matter to me at this point.

Anyway, that's why some us were surprised. I would guess you've experienced the same sort of thing at some point in your own life, maybe a clause in a bank account policy burried back on page 33 you didn't know existed that suddenly had some relevence to you, or an insurance policy that excludes on page 16 the one thing you needed covered. It happens whenever documents are lengthy and it really shouldn't surprise you that it could happen at Rosity, too...imho.

Thanks again...peace to you, Jen

...bit of a cross post with Khai...who probably explained it better anyway!

I understand Khai and cliff-dweller, I do.  

I can assure you of the fact that we use this ability very carefully as we do respect the privacy of our members and only in situations that it becomes necessary do we use that ability.  Since I have been here, its only become necessary a handful of times. Thankfully most members that are getting harrassed, threatened, etc forward us the direct communications so its not even necessary to view the site mails.

"Thankfully most members that are getting harrassed, threatened, etc forward us the direct communications so its not even necessary to view the site mails."

As it should be, Stacy. A big Amen to that!!

Quote - Spamming is an abuse of the Renderosity mail system. If we have a claim from someone that they're receiving spam then we obviously need to check into that.

@Karen1573
Why you dont checked out first if it is really spam?
Fact is, bluemoon offers some Freebies on her site. To download this files you must sign in. And you know, if i sign in i accept the terms of use from this site. 
And bluemoons terms says, that she can send you offers from her store.
If you dont want to recieve offers, just a quick mail is enough and she pull you from her maillist.
After all, you dindt check anything. And this is sad.  You just wrote bluemoon a warning. Thats all.

i don';t know if what ladona says is true or not but it does bring up a valid point.

say i have my own site. a freebie i have here directs them to my site. to get the freebie one has to accept the terms of my site which say you'll accept mail from my site (spam)..you join and take the freebie......now you get spam from my site and i'm a vendor and rendo.......the person complains to rendo they're getting spammed by a rendo member......remembering they agreed to accept the spam so as to get the freebie.  where does the spammer and the spammee in cases like this stand. 

billy

As Stacey stated, the person usually forwards us the site mail directly.

If someone said "I'm getting spammed by Billy" when we'd ask "how"? and go from there.

and i'd reply they generated it themselves by hacking into my system because we had a fall out because i allowed her to have 3oo pounds worth of product because hse asked for credit and wouldn't pay when the time came that she had to......or....she my ex girlfriend who trying to slur me. and hse has access to my machine...or i'd just fabricate part of her e'mail to show she asked for me to send her stuff .......or i'd send a hit man round and cap her.....or and this is the best one.......specially if i sent the spam from my personal site and not from rendo.....get my lawyer to issue you with a writ.......for restriction of trade........then i'd get an injunction to stop you trading untill i had had my final day in court.......under the us law i think i am entitled to ask for that...i'd make sure i dragged the case out as long as i could........i would quote posts wher rendo has sent out spam but is still allowed to trade. in tandom with that id start litigation as to the validity of your tos and how it's implimented. of your incorrect use of copyrite laws and the way those in power make criminal allegations to its members. i being a member could do this withoput having actually being libled.......the cost would'nt be as much as what you'd expect. i have a few legal friends. i'd also take out legal insurance to cover such an eventuality with specifics......not being a poor man i could probably make it last a couple of years. all that said i'm just giving hypothetical answers lol...apart for the litigation. yes i know it would have to be in tennesses. if i can afford to live in manila where realestate is as expensive as london and commute back and forth to see my kids i'm pretty sure i could drum up enough cash as i say to at least start proceeding and close anyone down if they tried to close me down for no apparent or unfair reason........i gather the person accused of spamming didn't actually spam...that the spmas cane from rendo itself.....or am i mistaken

billy.

Quote - .....get my lawyer to issue you with a writ.......for restriction of trade........then i'd get an injunction to stop you trading untill i had had my final day in court.......under the us law i think i am entitled to ask for that...i'd make sure i dragged the case out as long as i could........i would quote posts wher rendo has sent out spam but is still allowed to trade. in tandom with that id start litigation as to the validity of your tos and how it's implimented. of your incorrect use of copyrite laws and the way those in power make criminal allegations to its members. i being a member could do this withoput having actually being libled.......the cost would be as much as what you'd expect. i have a few legal friends. i'd also take out legal insurance to cover such an eventuality with specifics......not being a poor man i could probably make it last a couple of years. all that said i'm just giving hypothetical answers lol...apart for the litigation. yes i know it would have to be in tennesses. if i can afford to live in manila where realestate is as expensive as london and commute back and forth to see my kids i'm pretty sure i could drum up enough cash as i say to at least start proceeding and close anyone down if they tried to close me down for no apparent or unfair reason..

Ummmm site mail monitoring issues remember?

the mails i show wouldn't have been sent through rendo.

any mails that weren't,  that you show or use would show you to be breaking the law.

billy

Billy, we're talking about site mail... I must confess I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to?

neither am i

rotflmao

billy