Reason #1

When the folks at E-Frontier tout new content as the first and only reason to pre-order Poser 7 then you know that either they are either still at work creating new features or there isn't much else  to sell P7 on.   Seriously, whats with this market strategy where they bait their customers to pre-order without telling them what new features that P7 will have.  Do you know of any other software company to use the same marketing strategy?  My nose tells me that the developers at E-Frontier don't have much to offer with P7 and that this may very well be the end of the Poser franchise.

intersting you should say that on the same day that reason two was put out on the net... it's simply a marketing ploy. A teaser campaign. It's the seventh release, so they're showing you seven things, right? In much the same way that, wen P6 was released, there were 6 key 'selling points' they released ahead of schedule.

And the content is first because the content is what most people are interested in. The are people who have P6 who dont' use the hair room, or the cloth room... but they pose James and Jessi. Also, the content ties in neatly to the LE pack they're offering, and they want to get people pre-ordering. So are ou going to tell people about the incredibly technical, but slightly overdense new technology under the hood, or point to the bright shinies and say 'look! if you order now, these can be yours!'?

jonthecelt

I wouldn't call instancing (possibly), lip-synch support, and MacOSX Universal Binary support (Reason #2) 'not much to offer'.  That latter one is not so simple - especially with the archaic support hat needs to be maintained.

Let them gimmick out their 7 reasons, you do what you consider proper accordingly. :)

I'm not at liberty to quote sources, but a little bird told me it had to do with finalizing a code line with e-on software.  "They are aiming at a simultaneous release date, with a big surprise."  My little bird was bursting at the seams to spill the beans, so I am really curious now.  He isn't  a position to really know about a 'simultaneous release' or such.  The little bird I talk with occasionally,  had been pretty phlegmatic about stuff, up until recently.

If I hear any other unsubstantionated rumors, I'll let you know. :lol:

ya never lead with your stronges argument.

first thing said, is the first thing forgotten. save the best for later.

Purchacing a month before release had no advantage over purchacing the day before release.  They don't even get the money sooner. so why try for a mad rush in the beginning.

advertising a lesser reason now could save them some bandwidth. let everyone know its on the market, let the blind faith people jump in first then those who need convincing can trickel in along the way.

Quote -  My nose tells me that the developers at E-Frontier don't have much to offer with P7 and that this may very well be the end of the Poser franchise.

These kinds of negative predictions about Poser have been made before and have been wrong. My nose tells me that this prediction will be wrong, too.

I think this new version 7 is an exciting, new beginning for Poser.

I look forward to Poser 7.

-jjsemp

"End of Poser"?  Hmmmmm............whenever a prediction of impending doom is made about a growing market (as has been predicted about Renderosity many, many times over the years) -- then the considerable burden of proof lies with the predictor.  Not with the predictee.

In my experience, the doomsayers are wrong about 99.99% of the time.

I've got the feeling that P7 will surprise a lot of people.  So will Vue 6.  So will what the two programs will be able to do in combination with one another.

As an aside, I take issue with the assertion that "content is what most people are interested in".  If that were true in regards to Poser: then the galleries would be filled with renders of Jessie holding a sword.  The program's features mean far, far more than the default figures do.  Excellent figures are available elsewhere.

But the features......that's another story.

extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof..;)

Quote - > Quote - These kinds of negative predictions about Poser have been made before and have been wrong. My nose tells me that this prediction will be wrong, too.

I think this new version 7 is an exciting, new beginning for Poser.

I look forward to Poser 7.

-jjsemp

lol, I disagree. P6 was not worth my money and I thought the new figures were garbage. The crappy SR releases also prove otherwise. It may be a matter of opinion but in my opinion you are wrong.

lol, I disagree. P6 was not worth my money and I thought the new figures were garbage. The crappy SR releases also prove otherwise. It may be a matter of opinion but in my opinion you are wrong.

The prediction made above was that Poser 7  was the "end" of Poser.

You may not have liked Poser 6, but it wasn't the "end" of anything.

I don't think Poser 7 will be the "end" of anything, either.

But you're certainly free to stop using Poser if you want to. It can be the "end" for you.

Be my guest.

It IS a matter of opinion. That's why threads like this are ultimately useless until the product actually comes out.

-jjsemp

So where are the other 6 reasons not to pre-order P7? Or, are we going to have to wait 8 days for the next one. Wait a minute, that kind of sound familiar, I know I have seen that ploy some where before, don't tell me. I'm sure it will come to me eventually.

Claiming, "content is what most people are interested in." is BS. In fact, if you took the time to read the many threads on the subject, you would find that most don't give a hoot and most likely wont install it or will delete it after the P7 install. There doesn't seem to be very many users that have faith in eF figures and content.

There does seem to be a few that have faith in what eF can do in the software. That is what I think  they will be good at.. I have seen what they do with Shade. That is how I decided to pre-order. This is eF's first version of Poser. This will be the one that you should be able to say yes or no to how good eF is for Poser. Not to mention how well Vue will work with it.

   To gain hype it is best to lead with the weakest point and end on the strongest. Watch the movie Seven backwards and you will get the idea why its good to build things up to a climax.

     Just because the forums have alot of complaining about the content doesn't mean much. Most people that will enjoy the content won't post at all. I happen to like ef figures since they are more diverse in style.  V3 is great as well, but it is a single figure to fit all styles.  That leads to an inflated polycount so it can morph from one thing to another.  It is also the reason I don't need another like it.
  

"Just because the forums have alot of complaining about the content doesn't mean much. Most people that will enjoy the content won't post at all."

That is true.  But I don't think I have ever seen so many hyped on eF figures only to be so disapointed with the end result as with any other figure. Now I'm talking in general, it seem the ones that enjoy those figure are more into stills rather than animations. I can't use them for animations because I would have to spend more time in postwork to fix the poor rigging/bends than I would in creating the animation.

I use V3RR quite often. P5 and up works well with those kind of figures.

jjsemp. please... it won't be the end for me at all. I never said I would stop using poser. Afterall, I am here in this forum hoping P7 will be good. You can predict me staying regardless of what version I use of Poser. I may get P7 for free when P9 comes out, or if the 7 reasons make it worth my while. I don't think there is anything wrong with speculating about P7. That is what humans do. But why do some people take it so seriously or personally? We are only talking about software. It's not religion or politics or your mom beryld, I agree animating with Poser's bad bends is lame. And a lot of people may not like the content or the program and never post at all. It works both ways and is impossible to predict.

P6 was (and is) well worth my money.  Especially in the light of the piddly amount that a Poser version upgrade costs.

I fully expect that P7 will be worth my money, too......only more so.  Until it's proven otherwise, I'll anticipate the positive.  As I've said elsewhere: it's an attitude thing.  Made by free choice.

But running down a program that's not out yet -- or assuming the negative ahead of time -- that's also an attitude thing.  It's an attitude thing because no one actually knows yet.  So it's not a matter of substance -- it's just a matter of.......inclination.

I choose to assume the positive first.  There will be plenty of time to moan over the negatives later.  As I'm sure that some will be only too glad to inform us.  If (IF) there are real problems, then those problems will need to be addressed.  But I won't borrow hypothetical difficulties ahead of time.

Some individuals wouldn't be happy in paradise.

I will probably at some point get P7 but I want Vue6I first!

The content in P7 doesn't interest me in the slightest, I hardly ever use the P6 people and I don't see that changing with the P7 people, I just have too much stuff for V3 and M3!!!

I feel the E-Frontrier has done a great job with Poser 6, I never had a problem with any of my Poser's, I have been blessed, and E-Frontier in my opinion has done a good job promoting this product and others.  They have my attention and I believe many more with their marketing.

Sharen

I have Poser6. Better than Poser5, over all when they fixed the infamous memory bug. I'm sure Poser7 will come with its crappy bunch of bugs. Bur soon or later, it will be better than Poser6. I had for a while installed both Poser5 and 6 and finally I uninstalled 5. Now is easier for me cause I have two computers, so I can test it without fear of losing my Poser's schedule of commisions if the new software crashes

I'm sure: soon we will watch here lots of threads asking 'POSER5 OR POSER7?'. Por me is an useless question, just like if you ask: 'WINDOWS 3.1 OR XP?'. A reduced part of the community will continue using P5 and P6, but all the future products and freebs will be basically for P7

So... why wait?

welp, until I actually see someone using Poser 7, the jury's still out..;)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2669610

The wonders of P7 aside... does anyone like this "clever" teaser campagn? It makes me very hostil to a product that I would otherwise buy as a matter of course --I pre-bought P6 and had the ordeal of downloading SR-1 and SR-2 and the content fixes by dial-up. This does not create a warm feeling towards the company from me... Who exactly does the teaser campagn appeal to? If the features are completed they should be publized clearly and in detail, if they are not completed maybe the publicity campagn should wait untill they are. I think the pre-order market is probably very independent of any marketting effort and I think the rest of the market will wait until the full disclosure --which never did come with adequate detail for P6 as far as I am concerned. If the idea is to pre-sale to finance the launch campagn they would be better off just having out with what exactly the product is IMHO... meanwhile with this schtick I at least find myself very alienated :-(

That mention of the auto populate/replicate feature has got me interested...but I'm still waiting.  I'm not an animator so, so far, the features have a ways to go form me.

Quote - I pre-bought P6 and had the ordeal of downloading SR-1 and SR-2 and the content fixes by dial-up. This does not create a warm feeling towards the company from me...

I can't think of very many software products that haven't had to put out service releases. Let's see, Microsoft, Vue, Carrara, Lightwave, Max, Photoshop, Daz Studio, Bryce, most games; I guess that doesn't create a warm fuzzy feeling towards most software companies. DAZ has had to put out service releases on Vic3 and Mike3 and other content as well. Bugs are a fact of life. Software can only be tested to a point. There are always bugs that can't be found until software is released and it goes through trial by user. No point in singling out eFrontier for doing what other software companies have had to do for their products.

As for myself, I'm not really interested in the "secret agent" bonus content. I'll wait until I can see all the features before I decide to buy, and I'll probably wait until it's been released and out for at least a month or two anyway.

As I stated previously (maybe in this or another thread) - I don't care how good you are, there are contingencies and configurations that you either forgot, didn't know about, or could not foresee.  The only way to make software that works on every computer where it is run is to distribute it to every person who will run the software at some time or another - which is not a good idea.

For instance (before 'we can write perfect software' is stated): You've used top-notch developers, spent long periods beta-testing, used numerous test beds.  The software is infallible.  Right...  Except for Joe-Bob who has some vague FragYourInfallibleSoftware product installed which, well, conflicts with your software at some point (drivers, resources, naming, file extensions, etc. etc. etc.).  Being that FragYourInfallibleSoftware was written by Mary-Lou in Afghanistan using Windows ME and is run by about three people on the planet - how could you possibly (without diety-like powers) figure this into your development?  Off with the patch.

If a 'one-liner' like "Hello World" isn't infallible, a 'million-liner' is a million times more likely to be so...

Facts of life - humans are imperfect and therefore so is everything associated with them.

Quote - Facts of life - humans are imperfect and therefore so is everything associated with them.

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! I'm very dis-trustful of those that think man-made creations are so superior and better than anything in the known universe. Got a clue for ya's IT ISN'T! I too am not interested so much in the content part but in the actual "what can this bugger do" part. So I will wait with the others until more is revealed.

Me...I couldn't care less about the hype of pre-ordering or such.  I recall the same sort of things with P5 and P6, AND the hassles and complaints that spewed forth when folks actually GOT their copies..all the flames about what a shitty product it was, etc, etc. Personally..I'll sit back...and not even consider purchasing unil at least 12 months after release, when they have , hopefully, patched the inevitable bugs that will show up. Unless there is a particular feature in  P7 that one absolutely MUST have, NOW..thats a different proposition.

myself i like to know what im paying for before i buy.i'll wait till p7 goes on sale.

Quote - I couldn't care less about the hype of pre-ordering or such.

I don't care about the hype either... in fact i put in my pre-order before i even read the "hype"

Quote - I recall the same sort of things with P5 and P6, AND the hassles and complaints that spewed forth when folks actually GOT their copies..all the flames about what a shitty product it was,

I wasnt around for the p5 launch but i was for the p6. as i recall i saw few complaints spewed forth when P6 was released. In fact i seem to recall P5SR4 (the one that made it as stable as it would ever be) got far more complaints than P6. thats not to say p6 was without flaws. i just dont remember a mass hysteria over how it was broken and unusable.

Most of the complaints i remember about P6 was that the download and disks were released the same day, however the disks were shipped to the distriubter (which took a week) and then distributed from there at whatever shipping rate you paid for. so if you paid for overnight shipping you still had to wait a week after the release date before it was overnighted to you.

I am the first maybe not to expect perfection, or even for a software to run on all and every machine. I don't resent the service realese too much either Curious Labs was helpfull on that with me and always very nice to deal with. I really am just curious how the deal with annoucing each feature one by one on a weird schedule and then without much detail actualy works as a marketting strategy... are there actually people who buy who otherwise would not buy were it not for this strategy? I sincerely just want to know if anyone is aware of the thinking behind this kind of marketting and whether it generates sales or if is it just some sort  of sales concept that marketting departments like for their own reasons.

life is...takin a chance.... i preordered

the idea isn't about the 7 reasons in their marketing. it's about telling you a month or two in advance to get preorders and see what the market for p7 is eventually going to look like. doing it this way they get a projection of earnings. in order to keep the marketing alive they use the 7 reasons. the reasons could really be about anything just as long a p7 is kept in the public eye. basically it's just advertizing, of course it helps if the public like what they see re the 7 reasons. and i think that yes, some will by as they see the reasons develop.

billy

I made this point on another site: I don't think e-frontier needs to tell us anything. They have a built-in market of existing users. Let's face it: all they need to say is "Poser 7 pre-order. Click here" and tons of people will click and pre-order.
The list of features and benefits are for the people who are "on the fence" and may be debating about whether they should spend the money.

Quote - I really am just curious how the deal with annoucing each feature one by one on a weird schedule and then without much detail actualy works as a marketting strategy... are there actually people who buy who otherwise would not buy were it not for this strategy?

It's a valid marketing strategy. This is used often with games and movies. You get a 10 second teaser that doesn't really show you anything except the films title and the release date. They show you a bit more as it gets closer and closer to the release date. The idea is to build interest and excitement. Getting you hungry to know more and creating a buzz. I don't necessarily this strategy makes people buy, but it certainly draws attention to the product. Look how many threads it's gotten started here.

"Look how many threads it's gotten started here."

Actually, as mentioned in another thread, there seems to be less talk across the forums than in previous versions. Seems  Maybe it kind of worked last time, this time, all it seems to have done is make people annoyed. Looks like this one backfired.

I guess I am a bad consumer... I never play games or see movies. A marketting survey called and asked what car I drive, the best I could do for them was "black" (turns out it is a '97 Mazda). For months I had been intending to pre-order P7 ASAP but since I saw the first and second "7 reasons"... I guess I just have never liked teases :-( It is interesting to see what gets people to buy stuff in this world.

Quote - > Quote - I really am just curious how the deal with annoucing each feature one by one on a weird schedule and then without much detail actualy works as a marketting strategy... are there actually people who buy who otherwise would not buy were it not for this strategy?

It's a valid marketing strategy. This is used often with games and movies. You get a 10 second teaser that doesn't really show you anything except the films title and the release date. They show you a bit more as it gets closer and closer to the release date. The idea is to build interest and excitement. Getting you hungry to know more and creating a buzz. I don't necessarily this strategy makes people buy, but it certainly draws attention to the product. Look how many threads it's gotten started here.

This is what the cable channel FX has been doing for over a month now with
a new series called "Dirt".  Been running ad after ad that give you no clue
what the series is about. Only recently have they even mentioned Courteney Cox
( from "Friends") will be in it. I finally went on the web just to find out what it
was supposed to be all about.  But you'd never figure that out from the ads
on FX.

I have a feeling most people knocking P7 Bought P6

I'm getting it b/c I have P5 and I don't think I can wait for P8. :D

Quote - I have a feeling most people knocking P7 Bought P6

I'm getting it b/c I have P5 and I don't think I can wait for P8. :D

If one more person talks about their "feelings" in regard to poser 7, I'm gonna scream. I keep see that and thinking Jesus christ, who gives a _________, what your feelings are....you're probably wrong. Stop feeling and start thinking already. I don't know why this irratates me. It just does. I preordered p6...I love jesse and judy. I still use them. Lets talk positives: Universal Binary...that says to me some serious code rewrites have gone on. The replicating instancing thing....is awesome. I love it in vue.

"I keep see that and thinking Jesus christ, who gives a _________, what your feelings are....you're probably wrong. Stop feeling and start thinking already."

that's rude and ignorant

"I don't know why this irratates me. It just does."

yeah, you shouldn't be getting so excited about other peoples "feelings" and opinions

maybe you have issues

start by being more respectful in your replys that might help.

Quote - If one more person talks about their "feelings" in regard to poser 7, I'm gonna scream. I keep see that and thinking Jesus christ, who gives a _________, what your feelings are....you're probably wrong. Stop feeling and start thinking already. I don't know why this irratates me. It just does. I preordered p6...I love jesse and judy. I still use them. Lets talk positives: Universal Binary...that says to me some serious code rewrites have gone on. The replicating instancing thing....is awesome. I love it in vue.

It is neat that you can think so lucidly about things you have no direct experience of... I wish I could. I was a pre-adaptor of P6 and felt I was greivously mislead. I suppose it is your opinion we should cream over features we have yet to try and refrain from discussing problems with past releases. Maybe we can have this thread moved to Product Showcase forum :)

I lack the capasity you have to "think" about and appreciate features based on a single paragraph of hyped text now and then, perhapse you will make this thread productive and "acceptable" to yourself by posting complete descriptions of the 7 features along with sample renders ASAP :)

Thanks.

I bought P6 and was an early adopter.  I can't say that I've ever had a problem with the program.  I use Poser 6 daily, make content for Poser 6 and so on.  I have to admit that my renders are often figure stills so I've never really encountered Rendering issues.  My outlook is different, I think Poser is fun and interesting and I find that feature enhancements in Poser 6 could never make me go back to an earlier version (I have all of them starting with 4).

Just posting my own positive experience.

For those who are upset, I'd advise to just wait for the full feature set to be released and then make your decision based on that.  To my knowledge, it's not shipping any sooner for those that buy today versus those who wait for the full list.  If the full feature set doesn't do it for you, then stick with version X of Poser or go DAZ Studio.  Really, that's about as simple and logical as it gets.

Tirjasdyn, you should start screaming now because you are that one person expressing their feelings. Take your own advice or join the human race and realize that human thought and feelings are intertwined and often one and the same. Being positive to poser or your view is negative to my view, so you are negative. It is all relative. I feel poser 7, as of right now, is not worth buying. :-)

I can tell you that there is no way I could go back to any of the earlier versions after P6. There is no comparison. I started with P4 myself. I thought P5 was better than P4 and I know P6 is much better than the others. I pre-ordered P5 and P6. I pre-ordered P7 the same night that the news letter came out. I up graded because I planned to do that a long time ago.

"I have a feeling most people knocking P7 Bought P6 "

With all the threads I have been reading. The majority are P4/P5 users that never bothered to upgrade to P6 and/or DS users. This is not feelings, this is from reading a majority of the threads in as many sites as I can. There are a few P6 users that complain but your going to get that no matter what the product is. Even I'm complaining, but it is about the poor marketing and lack of real info.

Thing is, no one will know how P7 will run until we get it on our own machine and try P7 for ourselves. Then we will hear the complaints at how bad P7 is because it won't run on thier system, while some of use will have little or no problems. You should see the flame wars then.

Edit 2 times for spelling and there still may be some missed.

I've been a Poser user since Poser 2, and every new release has consistently smoked the previous version. I expect this trend will continue. I haven't pre-ordered yet, but I will, because the upgrades have always been reasonably priced, and always added usable new features.

Quote - > Quote -

I lack the capasity you have to "think" about and appreciate features based on a single paragraph of hyped text now and then, perhapse you will make this thread productive and "acceptable" to yourself by posting complete descriptions of the 7 features along with sample renders ASAP :)
Thanks.

Actuallly it's a language issue. 

But since you rather make ludicrous assumptions  (You know that the feature list isn't complete and no one has the program yet, so your response make no sense, even sarcastically), how about we just gloss over your response.

A few hyped features point to good things.  Instancing is a positive step.  I've only had vue 5i for a few months and I love that feature.  Imagine creating a crowd of random folks in just a click.  UB is great for mac and pc users, pointing to reworked code and better functionality for macs. 

As for the talk thing...

1.  DAZ and ef are not going to make up.  Ef taking steps to catering to things animators need is another postive step.  Allowing for thirdparty add-ons could bring in daz products another good thing.

2.  If you actually think about it you'd realize that guessing functionality on talkdesigner.based on two paragraphs is idiocy.  But welcome to poserland.  They've begun telling us what they have included.  Based on that information poser 7 looks positive. 

Poser 6 is my favoite verison of the software.  It had one major bug which has been fixed.  I'm waiting to see what the rest of the features are before deciding however if I don't end up buying it than at least I'd know enough not weigh in my feelings about it.  Because frankly I wouldn't have any.

REASON 3 MULTIPLE UNDOS

and the crowd went wild.

Quote - REASON 3 MULTIPLE UNDOS

and the crowd went wild.

Oh, yeah.

E-frontier's servers should be crashing right about now from the flood of people attempting to pre-order P7.  This is one of the most-demanded features -- ever.

Now everyone is going to be happy & content -- and they'll all be gratefully praising e-f's efforts on their behalf both in this forum & elsewhere.

:sneaky: :biggrin:

"Now everyone is going to be happy & content -- and they'll all be gratefully praising e-f's efforts on their behalf both in this forum & elsewhere."

I'm sure glad I beat that rush.

I always get excited when I see new upgrades on software I own, this one is no difference.  Especially if I use it alot.  Sharen

Ummmm Multi Undo's - sounds fine to me and thats reason 3. Wait and see what comes then look back at your post and see how close you were to getting it right, should be interesting.

Poser 7 will not reach midlife crisis. My guess is that its going to be very special. There's few packages in its class and in its price that come anywhere near it. Poser is a long long long way from being finshed only an ULTRA Poser could do that and right now nothing exists. Not even DAZ Studio!