i have a question to you Stacey..is it because of paypals?or some religious convictions that the rules have gotten so strict?...These images that have been removed i consider very mild and dont shed a bad light on anyone..except the people that made the rules that had them removed...as people are naked under there clothes,even children..and unless someone is being hurt or exploited,i dont see the risk that the site is taking by letting them be shown.and the truth of it is,they are only polygons in a computer and nobody can say how old a polygon and its groupings are..i could see if somebody was doing something to these characters in the images,like little Bobby nailing little Suzy ..but that is not the case...It is a show of beauty...and they were removed..

Just to ask a silly question, but how can you have a "positive" discussion when it starts out a complaint about an image being removed?

Apparently, someone is upset. Others are trying to turn his non-positive statement into either a joke or telling the rest that they have to stay positive with their replies.

Here's a positive statement. I am positive that some people here are upset with the way some members are treated. Removing a member for breaking TOS or what have you is one thing, but to ban the entire family that use the same IP? That's taking things a bit too far, IMO. Say it ain't so.
Of course, it does explain the other thread "talking" about how some members live in the same household and have the same IP, but that doesn't make them clone accounts or the same person.

Is it possible to share with members here the policy in action regarding purchases when someone is banned?

And before anyone gets into an uproar over this, let me explain something.

I stopped posting some time back and removed my store from here due to health reasons. While the health hasn't really gotten any better, I do have my good days. So I come here and read threads to while away the time on my good days. And I read about how this member is upset and that one is upset and that one is banned and this one is not and it goes on and on. But the thing I see that, IMO, hurts Rendo the most is the "We will not discuss this with anyone except the effected member."  Maybe Rendo should. Maybe Rendo should put an end to rumors.  I seriously doubt that Rendo wants people to think that they would ban a whole family because of one member and the fact that they think the other names under the same IP is that banned member. I also doubt that Rendo would want people to think that should they ever be banned for whatever reason, that they would lose their entire purchase history. Standing on the "We will not discuss" blanket leaves Rendo open to lots  ofspeculations and rumors abound. And when rumors abound, nothing positive can be found.

Primal,

These changes (which happend over a year and a half ago) were a result of a combination of several factors: feedback from the community, consistency between the marketplace and the community and the legal liability surrounding child nudity and pornography. 

We felt and still feel it was the right move for Renderosity and the community.

Thanks

We do not ban an entire family just because one member has been banned UNLESS that banned member begins using the others account.  On this particuliar account that was referred to above, I myself was in contact with the banned member and we resolved the issue of the family accounts a long long time ago. We have a lot of tools in place when locating clone accounts.

We for privacy reasons will not discuss another members history, why would you think we would do that without  the member bringing it public? Would you want your business all out in the public without your permission? 

Some people thrive on rumors but we aren't going to acknowledge things that are rumors and feed into that negativity for sure. If you have a direct question that I can answer, I certainly will. If I can't because it breaks into someones privacy or is confidential, I'll let you know.

I can go with not discussing private affairs of others and I never thought you would do so. I wasn't asking that. And you did put to rest one rumor with your first paragraph.

What I was asking was if you could share the policy about purchase histories of banned members. Not anyone in particular, but something that would apply to everyone.

Oh forgot to answer the question about the policy regarding the continued access to purchases for members.

"Product availability : Once a product has been purchased and downloaded the customer has accepted the merchandise.
Renderosity will try to make the product available for future downloads if needed but we can not guarantee the product will be available. We suggest that you archive your purchases after downloading them."

This includes banned members that have accepted the merchandise when they originally download.

Jinx:)  Sorry I left that out the first time....

Still they are just characters depicting something they are not..and drawing an age line on them is impossible..and it is not in anyway pornography(i am sure you have seen what is out there)..and its only a team of moderators that can tell how old they are...and if it takes 50 of you to decide,,wouldnt it be easier to just ask the person ,one on one to remove or fix the image with no warning.I dont see what the warnings and bannings do except distance you from us..I dont think the place would fall apart if it was taken care of in a nice way..You know Working with the artists...?Its a distant concept i see, but i think it would be better than the way it stands.

Okay.... so this means that if you are banned, then you have to contact admin@renderosity to get a previous purchase in case you have a crash or something? And then it depends on if the vendor still has that product in their store or not? And that one I'm asking also because I'm now curious as to how the products I used to have here are effected now. Somehow, I don't think you guys have the zips stored someplace for people to be able to retrieve them should they need to.

I forgot something earlier too......

Hi Stacey! How are ya? And nope.... I not planning on getting myself banned. grin I'm just really curious and a bit bored and since you're being so nice as to answer, I'll keep asking questions. Totally derailing Bill's original thread and for that I apologize to Bill.

Quote - Still they are just characters depicting something they are not..and drawing an age line on them is impossible..and it is not in anyway pornography(i am sure you have seen what is out there)..and its only a team of moderators that can tell how old they are...and if it takes 50 of you to decide,,wouldnt it be easier to just ask the person ,one on one to remove or fix the image with no warning.I dont see what the warnings and bannings do except distance you from us..I dont think the place would fall apart if it was taken care of in a nice way..You know Working with the artists...?Its a distant concept i see, but i think it would be better than the way it stands.

Hey now this sounds workable. Have a person looksee and if they positively, absolutely cannot decide if the character in question is of age or not, simply send an IM to the artist telling them the age is difficult to decide and would they please remove it or fix it. The warnings and bannings could come if the artist shows themselves to be one who just wants to "see what they can get away with" and repeatedly posts images of that particular type. But for an artist who has been here for ages and has upteem million images that have never violated anything in the TOS..... a simple request sans the warnings should suffice and most probably not offend near as much.

I'm gonna do a copy/paste from my email but just get to the pertinent factors

"My son and I were using the same account for awhile after I was banned, he created an account as did my brother who was visiting, they were banned, within minutes of posting because they used my custom CR2s.  My wife's account was banned because of the IP problem and she never bothered to contact the admins because she thought the whole things was B.S.  Then came the fact that I was still recieving emails from the site about stuff I could no longer purchase, to me it feels like a taunt to me, I've contacted Stacy and Karen about it, I stopped being charged finally in July (I was banned in May), I'm still recieving emails about product notices.  When I recieved an email stating that somone had added me to their favorites is when I realized all Renderosity did was ban my account and not delete it (which means it's probably easier to ban me, delete my gallery and let the ebots run rampant as they may than delete my account so I can wash my hands of them and them of me. "

Another part on his banning

"The first time I was banned was completely my fault, I had a nude child in the render and it was meant to be a nude child but to me it was an honest mistake I was doing a story and one part had a Vicky model and her shock of seeing that she was being cloned, to me a nude younger version made sense, they contacted me on that one, I changed the image to make her look clothed.  All the other times it was Aiko, when I contacted them and did the "how come this is good to go and mine is bad, some BS excuse was normally given, but after my last banning I put forth a great amount of  "how is mine worse" and that I think funked up other members because they were soon permantly banned.  "

His closing

"I think Renderosity is still a super site and for you to stop posting because they banned a few people is kinda silly to me.  You and Jon don't use Aiko or Girl so your relatively safe.  For the most part the mods will work with you.  I just think that some of them are asses.  The email informing me of my permanent ban made me feel as if they were calling me a pedophile with words like "deliberate violation of the TOS".  You've seen my stuff on Renderotica, that's deliberate. You can post this if you wanna, just take out the parts about work and family."

As my hubby would say "nuff said.

We should always be doing this (contacting the member to educate) but keep in mind that mistakes have been made from time to time as was with primal.  And also it depends on if its a "blatent" violation of the child image guidelines or something that is boderline we should be contacting the member first. 

Just an FYI that this education for the team and the members is something that is on my list of "goal accomplishments" for the coming year. We will be doing some training with some additional training with some newer team members on how to handle these unintentional violations in the future.

Also please understand that if someone continually keeps violating the guidelines we do have to issue warnings and eventually the ban if necessary.

I hope this helps some. We realize that not all members are blatently trying to violate our guidelines, it should be pretty clear as to who is and who isn't just by the image itself so we will be doing a better job of making sure we treat those accordingly in the future.

Unicornst,

If we don't have the zips then we asked the buyer to contact the vendor directly but most of the time we have them, I think even the closed store ones for a period of time. Dont' quote me on that, the Marketplace staff would be more accurate with the answer to that one. You might shoot Deb or Clint a Site mail to find out for sure.

I'm doing good girl!! Hope your health is okay right now. I also hope your good days out number your bad days by far. I love seeing you posting cause then I know you might be having a good day:)

Stac

aikofan12

This issue has been resolved with the banned member in question so I'm not sure of your intent here. But if the person in question has any concerns they are welcome to email admin@renderosity.com otherwise I consider this matter closed as we will not be discussing this members issues with you.

Sincerely

Stacey

Quote - aikofan12

This issue has been resolved with the banned member in question so I'm not sure of your intent here. But if the person in question has any concerns they are welcome to email admin@renderosity.com otherwise I consider this matter closed as we will not be discussing this members issues with you.

 

Sincerely

Stacey

Yesss, yesss,  yes, thats it! Embrace your hate and anger, use them, they will make you strong in the dark side.

muahahaha muahahaha muahahaha.

According to him it hasn't but he has since put emails from Rendo go automatically to the spam folder.  Like I stated earlier, my husband worked for him and he's a super nice guy, one of those who will go above and beyond to help anyone out and make it seem as if you were doing him a favor.  When he was banned I took it persnally, I still do to a point, so when i saw this topic, I got riled up.  I blame it on hormones (I'll be having my first child in February). 

To me it's like someone beat up a guy who always looked out for me and my husband's best welfare, and I know he normally takes things like this with a smile and a joke, but if you ever met the guy you'd see how hyper he is about everything.  So if I got off topic I'm sorry.

No worries:)   I understand about the pregancy hormones, I had em too!!  Congrats!!

Its not wise too underestimate the power of the dark side.

Muahahahah Muahahahah Muahahahaha

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2667187&page=1

Actually I was wondering how banned people get their purchases if their PC crashes. I've had viruses wipe me out several times, even with an up to date virus scanner. I have also had hard drive die on me.

DDevant

If you have a question or concern on a forum post in another forum, please SiteMail a team member from that forum with your concern.

Quote - We should always be doing this (contacting the member to educate) but keep in mind that mistakes have been made from time to time as was with primal.  And also it depends on if its a "blatent" violation of the child image guidelines or something that is boderline we should be contacting the member first. 

Just an FYI that this education for the team and the members is something that is on my list of "goal accomplishments" for the coming year. We will be doing some training with some additional training with some newer team members on how to handle these unintentional violations in the future.

Also please understand that if someone continually keeps violating the guidelines we do have to issue warnings and eventually the ban if necessary.

I hope this helps some. We realize that not all members are blatently trying to violate our guidelines, it should be pretty clear as to who is and who isn't just by the image itself so we will be doing a better job of making sure we treat those accordingly in the future.

 

Unicornst,

If we don't have the zips then we asked the buyer to contact the vendor directly but most of the time we have them, I think even the closed store ones for a period of time. Dont' quote me on that, the Marketplace staff would be more accurate with the answer to that one. You might shoot Deb or Clint a Site mail to find out for sure.

 

I'm doing good girl!! Hope your health is okay right now. I also hope your good days out number your bad days by far. I love seeing you posting cause then I know you might be having a good day:)

 

Stac

Thanks for the replies, Stacey. Guess if they have to contact the vendor directly, and I'm the one they choose out of the partners, I'll send them Artemis_Sun's way. She has them stored on her website. grin

As for my health, it comes and goes. More going than coming lately. Think I'm going to have to get my meds adjusted again.

 I am sending good thoughts your way Unicornst:)

Quote - Actually I was wondering how banned people get their purchases if their PC crashes. I've had viruses wipe me out several times, even with an up to date virus scanner. I have also had hard drive die on me.

What's to wonder?

1.  External Hard Disk for mass storage

2.  Archive to CD or DVD

Data protection is the sole responsibility of the end user, is it not?

Quote - Data protection is the sole responsibility of the end user, is it not?

Hmmm... zis ees a strange vurd yoo yoos dere, meester Dreamer... Vot meens zis "responsibility"? :lol:

I'd just like to pop in and introduce everyone to the Latest in TOS Security Enforcement! Everyone welcome our old friend GORT! He'll be burning your retina's out with his Laser Eyes if you dare to breach the TOS again. Have a nice day.

Quote - Hmmm... zis ees a strange vurd yoo yoos dere, meester Dreamer... Vot meens zis "responsibility"? :lol: 

To be honest with you, I have no idea.  It popped up on my Google home page as the Word of the Day, and I thought I'd try using it in a sentence.  I'm hoping I used it in the correct context. :)

Quote - I'd just like to pop in and introduce everyone to the Latest in TOS Security Enforcement! Everyone welcome our old friend GORT! He'll be burning your retina's out with his Laser Eyes if you dare to breach the TOS again. Have a nice day.

Klaatu barada nikto!

Nice little factoid from that movie ("The Day the Earth Stood Still" for those of you who didn't get the joke): The man who played Gort, Lock Martin, had never been in any movie before this one. He was recruited after someone involved with the movie discovered him as a bouncer at a local club/bar. He was naturally a very large, tall, built man. However, when it came to the end of the movie, and Helen (Patricia Neal) says "Klaatu barada nikto" and then faints, Gort simply wasn't strong enough to pick her up. By all accounts he looked like a strong man, but couldn't actually get Neal off the ground. So they had to bring in a crane and tie her to it and hoist her along as he caried her from the spot at which she fainted back into the spaceship. I always found that amusing. N

And she couldn't get out that phrase without laughing herself silly. Took quite a few takes before they got that now famous line.

Yea I think I remember hearing that too. Since "Klaatu" is the name of the other traveller who typically went by "Carpenter", most people think (and if any of you can find a link confirming this that'd be great), that "Klaatu barada nikto" means either "Klaatu says no" or "Klaatu says stop". N

"What's to wonder?

1.  External Hard Disk for mass storage

2.  Archive to CD or DVD

Data protection is the sole responsibility of the end user, is it not?"

You know what is sad about your reply TerraDreamer?...is the fact that is had to be said at all.
I have redundant copies of all of my "Freebies" (External drive as well as CD and DVD backups)...And those were "FREE" fer Gawd's sake.
You can bet that if I had spent hundreds, or perhaps thousands of dollars on content,I'd have backups...in triplicate.

LOL@Captjack1

BTW...lookz like jue changed jore skreen-name.

wait a bit! did I miss something? is somebody in this thread "great with child"? p.s. please forigve this interruption - continue with yer normal forum-wrangling :lol:

Yes, I have my first one on the way. 

I think if you buy something and you download it, hey it's yours.  Using the site as a back up isn't very smart, but I know when my external crashed, I went back and downloaded everything again from the site (this was a few years back, so I don't know how easy it is now and my husband hasn't purchased anything yet from this account).

In the case of permanent bans, I think those members should still be allowed to use the store, just not be able to upload images (another idea that was presented to the site and was flatly denied by Peter). 

You like me, you really like me!

What a night!

I dont think aiko will ever be able to look over 18... i mean its not in her "genetic" makeup... she's too big eyed and cute.....

Well, my backup external drive got wiped out by the pollipowin32 virus. I have over 1200 purchases at RR alone. Try to burn all those to disk, LOL!

Quote - Well, my backup external drive got wiped out by the pollipowin32 virus. I have over 1200 purchases at RR alone. Try to burn all those to disk, LOL!

@drifterlee
I agree. My poserstuff is gigantic. Dont know how many CDs DVDs i have whith Poserstuff.
After my last PC crash i couldnt find anything i wanted to reinstal to my runtime.
So i used the download option from The stores.
I really regonized that i didnt burned everything on a DVD. Whith all the stuff we buy, you forget sometimes the one or the another Prop.

i always make it a habit to burn the same day i bought something onto a rewritable cd..... i've lost a good many things with virus's etc.....

given that i had time that is hehe...

@Sharyn
LOL I am sometimes really to lazy to burn my new stuff right now after the purchase. And so sometimes i really forget it. This way i lost a lot of Stuff. :cursing But i hope one day i will learn.
hehehe

DVD burners aren't THAT expensive anymore. Try summing up how much money you've spent on Poser-related purchases and you'll probably find that a DVD burner is a VERY good investment.

Whenever my "Poser Downloads" folder is big enough to fit a DVD I burn it and delete it from the Harddisk (after testing and re-testing the DVD of course)

It's all still INSTALLED in my Runtime of course, but the actual zips and exes are archived. Gawd if I should have both a 60-ish GB Runtime AND the same stuff archived on my harddisk as zips... I'd need an even bigger harddisk. Besides it's much safer archived on some kind of removeable media.

(BTW I wouldn't suggest rewritable cd's... I've had too many of those die on me - a blank cd is cheap and you can burn a cd with even a few zips on it ;o) )

As for the original matter of this thread, I find it amusing how many people seem to think this is not a private site. It's very much a private site. Just because you're not charged for the actual membership doesn't make this place public. And just like you can't decide you want to redecorate your local convenience store, you can't make the rules here. The OWNERS make the rules. And if you don't like them, you're free to leave.

I don't agree with all of Rosity's rules, by far. And the nudity guidelines in particular, but again, it's their site, their rules. I post my nudes on RaunchyMinds and feel fine about THAT. And no, you can't post pictures that are percieved "underage" at RM either - and let me tell you that since I AM an admin over there, I too have to remove images that I PERSONALLY feel is fine, but which are against the site's TOS. And no, that's not funny in the slightest. Actually I hate to have to remove a picture, especially when it's clear that the artist never intended it to be CP. But you have to draw a line SOMEWHERE or the courts are going to draw it for you, when some zealot complains.
Oh and I have had one of my OWN pictures removed over there. Talk about glowing red ears...

Finally: CaptainJack - Can I please marry you? I have cats and no allergies! ;o) (and a hubby but that's a minor detail...)

i disagree...Stacey just told us the nudity rules were changed beacause of community feedback,complying with store and gallery and legal matters...but i do agree they can make the rules.and do.but i think communitee feedback is important..and i think it is listened to..but numbers speak..and with 300,000 members a few squeeky wheels probably wont get oiled.people need  to speak up if they are disatisfied..and if they are satisfied..This is also a big bussiness and we have some control there also.Happy customers buy things,unhappy ones dont.

Quote - Finally: CaptainJack - Can I please marry you? I have cats and no allergies! ;o) (and a hubby but that's a minor detail...)

Well, I'll have to discuss it with my wife, but I'm sure we can work out something.

Well, my two cents, removing an image that may violate the TOS...I support that.  Removing an Artist from the site who didn't purposely violate the TOS (you can tell when someone does it purposely) that's stupid.  Especially one who is paying to post 3 images a day...well do you think that person is really trying to violate the precious TOS.  Now if you told someone hey, we pulled your pic because...and they're reply was "well funk that, I'm gonna post what i want, and then they do the same the next day, the day after...well yeah, boot 'em. 

Anywho, the site isn't going to change it's policy and if it does I think those who were banned would probably stil be banned. 

Why is it everytime someone wants  to challenge or question the rules here, someone has to pop up and say "If you don't like it, you're free to leave"?

Has no one ever challenged or questioned state or federal laws? If they did, were they told they were free to leave the country?

People have the right to challenge and question. We do live in a democracy, after all. And just because they do challenge a rule or law THEY  believe is unfair does not mean they do not like the place they are. Quite the opposite. It's because they DO care about the place they are in.

One of the reasons given for the rules being changed was because of "consistency between the marketplace and the community". So I think it's fair that if you have nude Aiko in the MP and clothing for her that is near nude or extremely provocative, that you can question the deleting of images that use those products. Where's the consistency?

If the other reasons given, "feedback from the community and the legal liability surrounding child nudity and pornography", were to stand alone, then there might not be questioning. But that particular reason was thrown in there also. Therefore, questioning and challenge happens.

Some also question or challenge the judgement made in removing particular images. One using Aiko as a nude fae passes approval. Another by the same artist using the exact same character does not. Why? What's the difference in them? This actually requires questioning on exactly where the line is drawn. What made one okay to have posted here and the other not okay when both images were basically the same?

Quote - LOL@Captjack1 BTW...lookz like jue changed jore skreen-name.

Ooops... missed this in the avalanche of postings. Yes, I did indeed change my name, and I feel much more comfy... it's like getting a new set of flannel PJ's on a cold, wintry day. :lol:

Gallery, Forum, and the Market Place are all separate areas on this site.  I don't see why an infringement in one area results in a ban in all areas.

If someone is repeatedly posting images in the gallery that violate the TOS but they are in good standing in the MP and the forums, then why not just remove their ability to upload images to the gallery?

As for giving a warning or banning someone who is in good standing because they have posted an image that in their view was "of age", but to a moderator it wasn't, is dumb.  Remove the image and be done with it. Or implement a temporary "moderated upload"  period for the person so that all their gallery uploads have to be pre-approved before being  allowed public viewing.

Then once they've proven themselves, allow them to upload directly to the gallery again.

Quote - Gallery, Forum, and the Market Place are all separate areas on this site.  I don't see why an infringement in one area results in a ban in all areas.

If someone is repeatedly posting images in the gallery that violate the TOS but they are in good standing in the MP and the forums, then why not just remove their ability to upload images to the gallery?

As for giving a warning or banning someone who is in good standing because they have posted an image that in their view was "of age", but to a moderator it wasn't, is dumb.  Remove the image and be done with it. Or implement a temporary "moderated upload"  period for the person so that all their gallery uploads have to be pre-approved before being  allowed public viewing.

Then once they've proven themselves, allow them to upload directly to the gallery again.

Finally! Something that makes sense here.

So is this suggestion possible?

Renderosity is the whole site so when you continue violating the Terms of Service to which you agreed would result in a permanent ban from the entire site.  Now keep in mind this ban wouldn't occur unless you had MULITPLE violations and continued down that path even after the education of the tos and warnings. Its not like we just remove the image and BAN.. There are certain instances where warez activity and threatening someone would result in an immediate ban but otherwise we give members the opportunity to adhere to the guidelines just like any other site.

A person is not going to be banned unless they continually disregard the TOS...

Many other sites will pull images and not ban a member for any amount of time.  What is defined as Multiple it seems 4 over a three year period....

Please read our TOS which gives you the guidelines to who the warnings, ban system works.  Everyone agreed to this when registering with our site. The guidelines are there for a reason. We do try and work with members as much as we can but when someone continues over and over again to violate the TOS then some kind of accountability needs has to be present for that member that just is disregarding the terms of service.