Jen, the one I quickly looked at has nudity in the additional pics section. I don't actually understand how the rules are stricter for the marketplace.

Just an FYI that in the Marketplace the first promo image cannot contain any nudity. They can have nudity on the 2nd and 3rd promo images but not the first.

As Jen stated, please contact the Marketplace staff for any clarification you need on the Marketplace guidelines for the vendors.

Stacey, I don't need any clarification about Marketplace guidelines for the vendors. I was asking a general question about the use of Aiko when she was looking young in nude images. I did ask whether some of the images used in the marketplace would be acceptable here in the galleries. But that is surely something for you to give guidance on?

stacy you don't support the troops.  You're right I just read one string of replies, to the last TOS violation, not what transpired  in the past.  Yet, by the tone of the back and forth replies one can glean a lot, still he could have been an A hole in the past, the only basis I have to go on is that I know that person, have known him for several years off and on, so knowing what kind of person he is in his personal life, professional life, I'm lead to believe that there wouldn't be much of a difference between those two and his poser life.  In our line of work some people are totally differentl in personal and professional life, this guy isn't.  Now that I'm working directly under him (in the past I wasn't) there are differences but not in a negative way.  Aikofan is a big suporter of him because he is big on family and the time we three all worked in the same office it's werid to have someone work so hard to ensure that the wives are involved enough and being a wife, I'm sure Aikofan appreciated being treated as part of the team and not just "a wife".  That's where I base my opinions off of.

I'm interested in Market place renders, because I find them fully clothed as well when there could be an issue regarding age.

Bea, I can't give guidance based on your post because I have no idea what images you are referring to. 

cruzin,  I understand where you are coming from, I just wanted to point out that sometimes only part of the history is shown when there may have been a lot more to it than just what someone is willing to share.

Quote - Primal's warning wasn't taken off because he "aired" here.. If he would have contacted the admin email address about the warning itself (cause the image should have been removed so that didn't and wouldn't have changed) and I would have researched it when getting his email like I did when seeing it posted here, the same outcome would have occured. The warning itself shouldn't have been issued in the first place so regardless of how it was brought to my attention, it was a mistake that was rectified.

I want to say (and trying to say this as nicely as possible) that since no one but the team can actually see a members history, how do you know that the "banned' member(s) is giving you all the facts exactly as they occured?  I guess what amazes me from time to time is that I have seen someone continually violate our TOS end up getting banned because of the continual disregard for the guidelines and then a member will come in upset about what we have done and  say "Oh they only had one warning and got banned...................." but when I go look at the member record its like a mile long with all the notes there to know exactly what happened, when, why, etc... So sometimes you may only get the story someone who is upset and bitter wants you to hear:(

We really truly do NOT like to hand out warnings, remove images, give bans, we don't like it at all. We truly do try and work with a member that is willing and we ban when its clear that the person is not going to follow the guidelines that they agreed to when joining..

Since there are "records" being kept on the members here, I would like to know what Rosity's policy/position on  members accessing and  and reviewing this "record" that is being kept on them.

It's one thing to keep a record of our purchases. It's quite another when it comes too other kinds of "records".

Stacey I really don't want to go into particulars. I am not sure what would be acceptable to you and what wouldn't in the case of nude Aiko's. But I suppose what I am asking is are the marketplace staff expected to keep to the same guidelines when it comes to nude Aiko figures as the staff for the galleries?

Interesting point darth. R'osity keeps 'member records'? And not just financial records but ,

"a mile long with all the notes there to know exactly what happened, when, why, etc... " . 

I'm just wondering if the US has something similar to the UK's Data Protection Act which allows an individual to see any and all records kept on them.

Jack

If you've ever had a post, gallery image, gallery comment deleted or edited, you've got something on your record.  And you're contacted via email every time it happens, and most of us send site mails when that happens as well. 
As for a member's access to their records....first of all, I'd recommend that if you do receive any communication from staff regarding TOS violations (or even warnings that you're getting too close to the line, ya need to back off) that you keep them.  Above that, I'll let admin field whether they do it or not. 
We don't just put things in a members' records for no reason.  it would be more than silly of one of us to put "lemur01's avatar is red, 12/02/06".  However, let's say that there was a heated discussion....and, lemur, you were getting angry at Bea for whatever reason.  Let's say, for example's sake, that she hates the color red, and hates your avatar because of it, and you take offense.  You start a mini-diatribe (getting dangerously close to the TOS without violating it) about bee's being warmongers.  One of us might send you a PM saying something like "hey, lemur01, you need to calm down.  This isn't worth blowing up over, and you'll be better off just walking away, rather than continuing that.  We don't want to see any of this turn into a personal attack."  Unfortunately, sometimes, we're not fast enough to catch you (figurative, collective) from saying something that just might get you in trouble.  You verbally attack her, which is considered a personal attack, you get your post deleted, a message from us, and a warning on your record.
That's just one example.  There are thousands of different examples.  But, I suppose that Stacey, probably after discussing it with the rest of admin to make sure it's a good idea, legal, etc, will give you an answer ;)
As for me, I'm going back to bed.  My son just gave me a naaaaaaasty sore throat.  Gotta love kids in school!

Sorry about the son, I have two girls, when they get sick, I get sick.  Gotta love it.  Oh yeah, and you don't support the troops either....I just like the way that sounds, I'm on my way to be a true republican.

Disagree with me? Well you don't support the troops.

Mad because I cut social security...well, you know what, you know what? You don't support the troops.

You support gay marriage....well I only support two men getting married (more for me that way...just kidding) but you don't support the troops.

Darth, you object to records being kept? Well they are there to protect us, I suppose you don't think we should watch our borders, what about terror attacks...oh we should just let them in and trample our borders, oh....you think the Empire should just take Luke's hand...you don't support the troops.

A couple of small points I'd like to address:

Yes, it's true that in many cases artists do tend the make the bodies of their female subjects rather willowly or pixiesh if you prefer with some of the differances in body you mentioned.  These tend to be alittle bit more variable from artist to artist however (in my exprience) and it's hard to cover a whole field in one or two posts, heh. 

It's additionally intresting to note that as many western artists started to do their own anime characters, there personal styles often varied very wildly from the norm, particullarly in cases of body type.

I would also agree with you, to an extent, that breast size is not a typical determining factor in a character's age.  I would point out, however, that basic development throughout the body, is used, which naturally enough includes breasts to show a person's level of maturity to an extent.  What I mean is that obviously a pre-pubescent character is not going to be showing any signs of sexual development.  Often additionally very young characters will (although not always) have some characteristics in line with the "chiby" style characters such as rather short and stubby extremeties like arms, legs, feet, hands, etc, very small torsoe and heads that while  will look somewhat exaggerated in comparison because of the disportionate size of their bodies.

This is part of why often more mature characters tend to take on some of the attributes you mentioned, such as somewhat longer limbs in comparison to a realistic character, and the somewhat smaller then normal torsoe regions are tyically a side effect of this keeping growth in porpotion (I know that's alittle hard to follow). 

As to the school uniform thing, this is often somewhat confusing if you're not familiar with the fact that traditionally school uniforms were standard not only thoughout highschool but into college as well.  Nowfrom what I understand this has changed somewhat, at least at the college level, but many older artists still call on their own expriences during their school years (which is understandible) in doing their art. 

As a result, many animes that take place with colleges as the primary setting for their characters will show the students in some form of uniform, and typically the only real varations between that and a uniform from for example highschool will be in terms of school logo and or color.

This is also the case with grammer school age children were often the uniform varation for boys is short pants or trousers and a collored shirt, and for girls a skirt and blouse of the same colors, and also for very small children who are usually dibicted in a sort of unisex smock, short pants or skirt depending on sex, and even a rather odd addition in the form of a sort (as it looks to me anyways) cross between a boonie hat and a pith helmet sort of headgear.

To give an example of the differences one sometimes can encounter between eastern and western cultures, a friend of mine who lives in the east once did a anime style picture of me based on my discription of my daily life (I was still in high school at the time) here in the west.  I was quite suprised when the picture had me dressed in what he imagioned someone in the west would wear on a day in school, namely a complete school uniform (and rather a cute one at that.. heh).  The whole thing was rather sweet in a way and I didn't have the heart to correct him, but the point is where as those of us in the West tend to associate school uniforms with things like private and or religous schools, or in some cases public schools that are so concerned with peer violence in relation to clothese they've started using the uniform principle, in traditional eastern culture (and as a by product anime culture) the school uniform principle is a fairly universal one.

There is a great deal of symbolism in traditional Anime that is often lost to the Western viewer owing to culteral differences.  I could start rolling off examples (the symbolism associated with colors alone is staggering) but I won't.  I mention it however because once again artists who are steeped in the anime style mindset sometimes need to step back a bit and remind themselves that alot of people who are less familiar are not neccessarilly going to get where they are coming from.

As too the suggestion that perhaps extreme bust sizes would help to more clearly establish different A3 characters as being more obviously adult, I'll grant that it's (sadly) not without some precedent.  There are a number of artists who have done all sorts of body varations with different exaggerated characteristics to give their characters a unique feel, often I think to try and set themselves apart from the traditional anime artist.  Exaggerated breast size is certianly one varation that's been done.  There are also things like overall body shape, I've seen a number of artists try to give their characters a more Westernized feel with more realisticly proportional body and sometimes head structure for example.  There are certianly plently of Morphs to turn A3 into anything from a large amazon, to a giganticly obese person, to a overly endowed and exaggerated female form, and even into a male version of herself.

I would point out, however, that in traditional anime such exaggerated forms were typically given to a character in order to convey a sense of differance or gross exaggeration, and that if such differences were to become the norm, it would kind of defeat the purpose.  It's rather like suggesting simply using the realistic morph for Aiko or Hiro.  Yes, then obiviously it's going to be more easy to establish something like age, but it's not going to be an Anime character, it's going to be a realistic character like V3 or M3, which again I think would kinda defeat the purpose since it would not be anime art.

The other idea I've heard tossed around a bit is simply to complety ban any A3 nudity.  I honestly don't think this is going to really help in the end.  For one thing, while A3 may be one of the more popular Anime characters to use in renders, she is certianlly not the only one out there.  I myself have a number of different anime characters in my runtime that if I were inclinded towards doing nude anime style renders could certianly fill the gap very well.  In addition to that I see alot of artists starting to tag any images they do of Aiko in a compartivly skimpy outfit as containing nudity, even though really they don't, so I'd hate to think all those images would suddenly be pulled as well and that the next step would most likely be people screaming back and forth as to at what level of attire A3 begins to drift into a potential "nudity" catagory.

Similarly it occured to me to suggest creating a list of morphs that can and cannot be used with A3 if she's going to appear nude with a accompanying list for Hiro and or any other anime characters.  But you see, many artists who've designed characters use degrees and varations on morphs that at first glance would seem obivious to me as being no-nos to create characters that are quite obviously adult.  So I don't think outlawing certian morphs is really going to work well either.

Somebody (jokingly as I recall) also suggested making A3 have a old or wrinkled face in all nude renders.   While I don't think it needs to be taken to that extreme, of course, I think this is one possiblity (here me out please).  I mentioned before that there is that grey area in anime in regard to peoples ages from about the mid-teens to mid-twenties.  However, there are quite a number of characters that are made to be obviously older adult characters in the anime field without being extremly old aged. 

Okay right about now the "But I want them younger (but adult), and pretty, and naked" crowd is probably readying the tar and feathers for me, but just hold on a second before you put the noose around my neck.

What I'm talking about would be a varation if you will on the already put forth "big breast theory" lol.  Okay, let's talk seriously.  To begin with if A3 is going to be either nude or next to nude in your renders, you probably don't have to worry alot about clothing fittings, so I'm going to suggest some of the standard anime techniques I can think of off the top of my head to ephesize an adult image for A3, while still keeping her compartivily pretty and also Anime in nature.

-Leg length.  Alot of the boys out there seem to like a good pair of long and sexy legs on a girl, so lets increase A3's height, but put alot of it into the legs.  You might also want to lengthen the torsoe a bit, so it doesan't cross into ridiculous but lets tag on a few inches in height to the legs.  Heels can also work wonders (and I think not detract from the general nude principle you're going for).

-Accompanying arm length and also neck length.  Let's get those going a bit too, partially for proportion but also because a nice gracefull neck and delicate willowy arms are generally considered good features on most women, and I think that's what we're shooting for, cute or pretty or sexy but in a adult way.

-Hips, buttocks, breasts, and waist.  Now again, I don't think we need to get to extreme on any of those, but play around a bit, let's give our grown up A3 a nice shapely figure that emphesizes a fully feminine and adult image without getting so disproportionate she looks like she's going to take a step and fall flat on her face from her poor breasts being bigger then her head (although I'm sure some folks would quite enjoy that lol).  In general when in doubt fall back on working those attributes towards the typical sociatial ideals, IE slime waist, shapely hips and buttocks, and breasts that while not neccesarilly huge are certianly fully developed (I'm sure you guys will figure out something, ha, ha I'm having way to much fun with this).

-Feet and hands.  I think you can mostly leave those alone, I say this because alot of folks are inclined to put some form of footwear on even their nude or barely there outfited A3s and so it's probably best to leave them largely in there orginal form provided they don't look dispropotionate.  One of the commen associations with women is smaller hands and feet then they're male conterparts anyways so I don't think that's going to effect the underage issue much.

-Tone and muscularity.  Once again you don't neccesarilly have to go to any extremes here, but alittle tone and muscle can both increase appeal and create a more realistic figure.  Most modern women indulge in some form of excercise and it adds a bit of age I think all in itself because it speaks to life-experience.  No we're not talking "amazon" proportions here, but concentate on some tone to things like legs for example, or the abs or gluts.  Let's keep our Adult A3's healthy and happy.

• Face.  Okay now we come to the big one.  But it's not as itimidating as one might expect.  Take a look at some of the pre-existing face morphs and character packs for A3, the Kleo ones are some of my favorites and they're free.  There's alot of varation there to get across a character image that's going to be mature but still beautifull and viberant.  Let's see... Cheekbones and narrowing the face a bit to give it a somewhat less rounded look, nothing to extreme but those two are some good areas to work on I think to deephize the kind or rounded anime head without neccessarilly going to far.  Make up varations using different textures is real important.  You don't have to cake it on, far from it in fact, but try to find a combination that is going to ephesize artfull application and experience.  I'd generally stay away from colors like pink for example which tends to give a more girlish appearance.  In general I suppose either proffesional and/or pretty but with a proffesional edge to it that speaks to years of practice.  Take some time with it, it really is one of the tools I've seen used in characterization for anime that can help emphesize a characters role or age for that matter.  Oh and expression, that can make quite a differance as well and and a nice alternative if you don't want to add to many age lines or anything to her.

-Hair.  Along with make up, this is often a key factor in giving a character (particullarly if they're going to be nude and not have clothing style to fall back on) a older more mature apperance.  Unfortionatly the paradox is there are no real absulutes here.  Depending on what you want your character to be and or express, and what other factors you've already used, is naturally going to play a big role in your choice.  For the purposes of age, I'd say in general (although this is by no means absulute) I would stay away from the "cute" hair styles like pixish styles, pig tails, twin buns, etc.  Maybe go with something really long and rich for a more beautifull character, or short or pulled back into a simple bun or braid for a mor professional look, but really those are just some kinda typicals off the top of my head.  I'm sorry if I'm being kinda vague but it's such a primary form of individual expression.  Go with what looks right for a character but recognize that if you go with a style generally associated with younger women it might end up a bit of a handicap in establishing age.

Kay's I think that's it for the moment except that props and setting can also play a role sometimes. 

One other thought.  At some of the forums I've been on, they went ahead and established a specific thread where every time anyone was warned or banned there was a short public announcement to that effect, stating the reasons why.  For example:  "Crimson Desire has been banned from the site for three months for repeated violations of the TOS as pertaining to posting images containing underage nudity"  Or words to that effect.  

This did a couple of things.  First it established a publicly viewable history in this case one would only have to look back a bit in the thread to find entries for previous violations, example "Crimson Desire has been given a warning for posting a image containing underage nudity and the image has been removed" followed by, "Crimson Desire has been given a second warning for posting an image containing underage nudity and the image has been removed the artist has been informed that one mor violation will result in a ban of three months" etc. 

In addition, members were allowed, withen reason, to post there opinions on the matter, provided they were civil and respectfull about it.  Of course there are good and bad points to this approach I'm not going to go into now because I'm tired and I think I've dragged this out long enough but I'm sure others will and it' s a thought is all.

Kay, I'm done babbling for now.

Crimson, how you made my big breast theory into something intelligent is an art unto itself.  I'm gonna IM you each time I have something crazy to say because, damn it I'm a believer.  

Oh and to everyone else....Crimson supports the troops!

I think your specific guidlines were really, really, specific and although simple, a little too much...just because when I render,  I render I take pains to make sure it looks adultish but your guidlines are hard but really, really good, just hard when one is "in the moment".  

Yet with all that, we still have lost more than a few members and one day I hope that those guys will be welcomed back to the flock.

Now that you've tackled Aiko...what about the Girl? 
Of course the guidelines haven't changed but I'd like to hear your thoughts on her.  I currently live in Japan and schoool uniforms are part of the day for me, for the region we live in I can tell the difference between, elementary, middle and high school, some schools you can tell what year of high school they're in by color, so I love your insights.

Bea hates my avatar?

bottom lip begins to tremble, eyes begin to well with tears...

What is on your member record is a record of the communications sent to a member when a violation has occured. Its so that we can know the history and know what was communicated previously by whatever team member and the date.  If you contact admin@renderosity.com asking about your member record I can give you everything that is on it. If you keep the communications between you and staff for image removal, forum post deletions, comments deleted, etc then that is essentially your member record. We just have to document it so that everyone on the team would be aware of past issues.

Bea,
As JenX and I both stated, you can contact the marketplace team in regards to the guidelines for the vendors promo images.

Thanks

To cruzin, well those are just a few top of the head suggestions.  I'm sure that people with more experience in creating and working with morphs for A3 can come up with far better ones then me.  And I would agree with you about "being in the moment" while remembering that if an image ends up being pulled then all that hard work can often seem waisted.

As a footnote I did do a render of A3 emmediatly after posting in which I tried to experiment with the various suggestions I myself had made, sort of a put your money where your mouth is kinda deal.  I didn't do any work on the head that's a Kleo morph, but I did work on the body quite a bit.  The A3 in the render was made the same height as V3 and there are some other refinements to the form such as muscle and tone and such things.  I'm afraid the angle of the camera along with the fact I had to pump up the bathing suit's chest area a bit more then the actuall breasts to get it to cover a few morphs it didn't have makes her look overly-endowed, but apart from that I think (or hope at least) most people could agree after a carefull inspection that she's an adult.

The actual mophs didn't take a great deal of time, finding some clothese to fit and at the same time leave the majority of the body uncovered so anyone intrested could see most of what I did was harder but then since the issue is with nude A3s that wouldn't be a problem for someone else.

While I'm glad some of what I've said has got at least a few people thinking I'm by no means any kind of expert and I'm sure alot of what I blather out is about 50% accurate at best.  I'm just trying to relate what little I happened to learn and remember, and I'd hope others would do the same.  Maybe somewhere we can find a commen ground we can all kinda live with if we're willing to talk about our perceptions and viewpoints in a little detail.

Oh and on the subject of The Girl, I feel even less qualified to give a opinion on her then A3.

Is it the image you uploaded today Crimson? She definitely looks like an adult

Okay, thankyou for the feed-back Stacy it's appreciated and I know it's not easy to evaluate these things, particularly in the anime realm so it means alot you took the time to look and let me know (I'm still not happy with the way her boobs ended up looking so big in the final render but that's beside the point, heh).

I know some of this has been covered in general terms, but perhaps some specifics from different moderators on what specific factors have often raised concerns as to the age of a character would help us as artists understand what to concentrate on when making or changing a character to better safe-guard against at least some potential mis-understandings.

I can talk and speculate until I'm blue in the face about what might or might not help, but since the moderators are ultimanitly the ones that will judge potential violations, perhaps some input based on their past experiences might help?  

And thankyou again.

I just saw the render, I just like a softer face, I did the side boob thing....oh Mods, question if you show no nipple, is it a nude?

Cruzin Edit I really, really like that render Crimson had to say it again, it's Sunday morning for me in Japan, but you've just given me inspiration on what I wanna cook up today.   Thank you :)

Quote -
Bea,
As JenX and I both stated, you can contact the marketplace team in regards to the guidelines for the vendors promo images.

Thanks

 
Stacey - with all due respect that is just a copout answer. 
As a community member I am asking whether or not the rules for nudity are different in the marketplace than in the galleries. That should surely be something that can be answered here, publicly? 
In other words I am asking whether or not members posting images can be assured that if they post the same image as in a Marketplace render of a naked Aiko that would be acceptable or not in the gallery.
The marketplace team can't answer that but surely you can.

its been out and out stated that the market place runs on different rules by jen x what more do you need that will make it clear, (near the top of this page)now near the top of the previous page

billy

But why do they run on different rules? They are both producing images that are available to be viewed by the members. Surely they would follow the same sort of guidelines? In fact I would have thought that the permissable limits would be even more stringent in the Marketplace when it comes to nude underage figures.

Bea,

JenX said in an earlier post the the Marketplace have their guidelines. Unless I see a particuliar image you are referring to, I can't answer that question with complete certainty.  The questions you are answering are too general and I'm not going to make an "assumption" or a general statement that might be misconstrued.

They are more strict on the 1st promo images, NO nudity in thumbs OR on the 1st promo image.  The vendors have their guidelines set by the Marketplace as we have stated numerous times.  The promos in the Marketplace are done for product representation ONLY, not for artwork.  So the buyers of the products can see the textures.

Bea- Just saw what you were talking about in the Marketplace (wasn't searching for it...just looking for stuff to buy) now I'm seeing your point very, very clearly and I wanna see this answer too.

Because looking at an email I just recieved, I'm scratching my head, because if I were to say what render is the older girl, I'd would have picked the one that got a member banned. Go figure.  

I think you were included on that email Stacy (well at least the email addy looks like you were) I don't want to out a vendor because I think the render is of age and really wish there was a way we could do the compare and contrast and you all pretend you didn't see it but that wouldn't be responsible on the part of a Mod, nor fair which is exactly what we're talking about. 

Smile everyone!!! Today is a super day to be alive!

Cruzin,

Please keep in mind that the image you are referring to from the email isn't what "got them banned" it was multiple, reoccuring violations that resulted in the banning. The image from the email is definitely underage in appearance. 

I don't know what Marketplace promo you are referring to but if you have questions about a promo image in the Marketplace, please contact the Marketplace staff .

Thanks

most of the kids come naked out of the box so you can clothe them as you wish, the kids don't come naked so you can pose them naked. they're a product and not art as stated. same with the market place i presume. theyre body textures characters etc to clothe over. the first thumb has to be clothed or not a naked image. the interior images often have to be naked so you can see what textures you're buying. i would presume the pvocotive child guidelines still hold hold though...sorry everyone but this just seems like a lets wind the mods up thread. asking questions that have been answered, throwing fuel on the fire to keep it going.  The market place isn't the gallery  and some of the products are not meant to be used naked or provocatively.  how hard is that to understand or comprehend.

billy

I'm 50/50 on that image, so I can see how that went down perfectly.  

Note to other's yes, I'm actually agreeing with the Mods but hold on I still support the troops, watch

But like I stated before if I were to guess ages on images the one (not gonna be a finger pointer) in the marketplace would get the "younger".  But it's all a moot point because noone wants to finger point and it really isn't fair to the mods that we talk about these things if we're not willing to show them what we are talking about via the ways already addressed .

damn that's twice...do I support the troops, I'm scared...waitaminute I have a spin on this that will save me

Now if the Mods were God fearing Christians they would understand what I'm talking about.

whew, that was close, remember young republicans....when you find yourself agreeing with a democrat, you have to spin in the God fearing Christians bit, then you support the troops again, well that is while it's still a good thing to do so.

The problem is I don't want to finger point. 
But I would have assumed that if there was a policy on child nudity it would have been across the board. As such I would have expected a response from Site Admin rather than from store or gallery moderators - because surely any policy is laid down from above. At the same time I would have thought that anyone here would be able to guess fairly accurately which merchants were being referred to.
How can you show a naked image in the Store but then stop someone using the same morph in the gallery?
I don't know why you have the rules against some naked images - I assume it has to do with child pornography and if that is so then surely some of the images in the store could also come under that same umbrella?

why don't you mail the admin then. and i thought stacey was admin.

billy

that would still be finger pointing. the whole report thing is finger pointing.

"But I would have assumed that if there was a policy on child nudity it would have been across the board. As such I would have expected a response from Site Admin rather than from store or gallery moderators - because surely any policy is laid down from above."

my response was to do with the above question and not about finger pointing.

"But like I stated before if I were to guess ages on images the one (not gonna be a finger pointer) in the marketplace would get the "younger".  But it's all a moot point because noone wants to finger point and it really isn't fair to the mods that we talk about these things if we're not willing to show them what we are talking about via the ways already addressed ."

then why bring it up

billy

  because I support the troops Billy that's why! Because I support the troops!  I was just building on Bea's response.

Further to the point brought up about member's records, and i know this is going slightly OT but i don't want to start a whole new thread on the subject if it can be answered quickly here so please forgive me.

Quote from StaceyG; 

*"If you keep the communications between you and staff for image removal, forum post deletions, comments deleted, etc then that is essentially your member record. We just have to document it so that everyone on the team would be aware of past issues."

*It's that word 'essentially' that raises the question about there being more on the record besides communications between membership and staff. For example, would a member's record include comments by the staff ABOUT the member?

Yup, you know lemur those are some interesting points?  I think that's all a little much as well, unless it's a matter of national security, now if the staff can make the connection between 9/11 and nekkid Aiko renders....then I support them.  If not they're abusing the power that congress gave them, because I don't see any WMD anywhere and even if they claimed to support the troops they're not because secret files on anyone is wrong.

Hey I recieved a warning can one of the Admins post all that transpired here?  So we can have an example of what goes on behind the scenes.

Lemur I'm not sure if you support the troops, but you support America and that's good!

But seriously post my warning and the secret conversation that went on.

Oh sorry for the multiple post thing, don't know what happened.

I support America? 

Looks for evidence, finds non and wonders what cruzin is smoking these days 

But i do support the troops.

Quote - Further to the point brought up about member's records, and i know this is going slightly OT but i don't want to start a whole new thread on the subject if it can be answered quickly here so please forgive me.

Quote from StaceyG; 

*"If you keep the communications between you and staff for image removal, forum post deletions, comments deleted, etc then that is essentially your member record. We just have to document it so that everyone on the team would be aware of past issues."

*It's that word 'essentially' that raises the question about there being more on the record besides communications between membership and staff. For example, would a member's record include comments by the staff ABOUT the member?

Basically, if you've broken a rule, you'd have received a communication about it from a staff member.  That would be on your member record, as well.  So, if you haven't broken a rule and been told that you've broken a rule, your member record is clean. 
However, there are instances when we place a note on a member record.  Like, if someone writes in to us, letting us know that there are 3 or more accounts in their household, we'll note that on the account to let other staff know that they aren't clone acccounts (to the best of our knowledge.) 
But, no, we don't put stuff like "StaceyG is a real jerk!" or "JenX really pisses me off!!@!" 

Again with the MarketPlace stuff.....site staff does not monitor the MarketPlace at all.  They have their own staff.  The only time I go through the MarketPlace is when I'm gonna buy something.  So, we can't do anything about a potential violation in the MarketPlace, especially if you refuse to tell us what it is.  "Fingerpointing" is telling us that there's something happening, and not telling us who/what/when/where/why, but that it's unfair because of it.  Not pointing out an obvious violation.  Use common sense.  "Fingerpointing" is, in essence, "Well, Johnny does it, so that means I can, too!"...without giving an example of Johnny "doing it". 

damn...and I was hoping for dirt like..."Boy is this guy a freakazoid or what?" thanks Jen, now how am I supposed to go to bed with no dirt to dish....man you don't support the troops either. 

Well it's Sunday night here and I gotta work early...and I'll be done with "not supporting the troops" since the weekend's over...gotta find a new thing tomorrow.....

Jen, no-one is actually answering the root question.
There are rules about naked aikos (and other females). A policy has been set down. I would assume that this policy was laid down by fairly senior members of the organisation.
What I am asking is does renderosity have the same rules re underage aiko nudity in the marketplace as in the gallery. I would have thought that the answer to that would have been a simple yes or no (or even it depends in that staff are human and might miss something or have a differing opinion on what is underage looking).
It doesn't really matter whether I point to one merchant or not.
I am not picking on anyone I am asking for Renderosity's policy and whether it is carried out through the organisation.
A lot of people in this thread have asked for guidelines on what constitutes an underage Aiko. I am just asking whether or not your sales staff are given the same guidelines as your gallery staff. 
I am asking because then the next question that follows on is if a person buys a morph and texture from here which has a nude image in the marketplace is he or she to assume that that morph and texture is acceptable to use for a naked image in the gallery?

Bea, actually we have.

We have said, over and over, that site staff have no bearing whatsoever on MarketPlace policies.  So, to get your answer, you need to contact MarketPlace Staff.

Jeni

Why is it so hard to answer Bea's question? It's so simple even i can understand what she is getting at.

IF the galleries and the marketplace are part of the SAME site (ie, the same people pay their wages), do the same rules apply regarding underage looking Aiko images in both the marketplace and the galleries?

If the forum mods can't answer the question... and it is a yes/no question... could an admin for the WHOLE site answer it?

lol at this thread, i just spent a couple of hours reading this :)
the problem is - YOU ARE ALL TOO OLD :)  (seriously)
i'm a young artist & too me aiko is well over 18,  my male fiends all love Aiko, she only becomes a problem to older folk, most men see aiko as - Cool Fresh & Sexy. Like you say most the clothes for her are sexy. The other problem is The TOON thing - i use the girl & aiko & all the time i get silly negative comments coz she's a toon, seems to me like a TOON vs Victoria thing :) . Aiko has boobs & the body of a woman - i never considered aiko as a child, to me the children are like the millenium kids, kiki etc (Flat chest & 3ft high) . Also you noticed all those sexy toon characters that pop up in video games, I know nude is different but be real, like i say aiko hasn't exactly got a child's body. & as for offensive i find the most offense images on here are the victoria one's where her boobs are like humongous & she has a hideous expression on here face - yet they get loads of clicks & comments - to me victoria is offensive & most men say aiko is cooler & sexier (my mates do anyway)
BUT - i just wanted to say coz i know when it comes to toon vs victoria - on here victoria wins
& aiko is just a toon :(   anyway off to carry on now ;) take care & stop being so erm..... OLD  :)  lol   xXx
PS maybe you could add a aiko only gallery  :)   victoria sucks   lol  :)

Quote - Why is it so hard to answer Bea's question?

Did you contact MP staff as suggested here over and over again?

Quote -  It's so simple even i can understand what she is getting at.

LMFAO!  Are you advertising limited intelligence?  :)

Quote - If the forum mods can't answer the question... and it is a yes/no question... could an admin for the WHOLE site answer it?

Here you go, pal, fire away.  Take this bad boy straight to the top!

http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?Who=JeniferC

What I'm wondering is, if they elect to make changes in the MP, what will some people here have to piss and moan and bitch and whine about then?  It would be like taking away a food source from starving people.

...Why am I wondering?

Quote - lol at this thread, i just spent a couple of hours reading this

Talk about a glutton for punishment!

Ah but TerraDreamer, that's the whole point. The question isn't directed at either the marketplace staff or the galleries staff. It's directed at the site in general because it is a question about the whole site. Not just the galleries, not just the market place.

As for the 'are you advertising limited intelligence' crack, well if you don't get the irony maybe it's not just me advertising limited intelligence.

Actually i just thought  & the lol has gone - really child porn is a serious issue, i remember one time i was on a music forum & gave a link out to my gallery, some users called me a paedophile for my images, i was devastated, wot made it worse tho when they found out i was a female user they said it was ok (weird eh) . To remove someones image due to child porn rules is a serious accusation & to the accused is a serious head fkr, i have never handed in a naked image (only coz i see it as cheating coz all the naked images get most views) BUT but but my gallery is full of images of aiko in sexy clothing, If i am doing images of characters in sexy clothes & other people consider them to be child like i'd like to know - till now i have been ok with my images & had loads of fun but now i'm thinking - "am i a weirdo" naked or not the fact is i made them look sexy, i do my images that way coz to me they are cool, but i'd hate to think that people thought i was weird or paedo. So to Primal i feel for him coz i bet he had that thought, when really his image was innocent & fun. The rules on Aiko will probably never be sorted to everyones liking - i just DO find offence to realise that alot of people think she's a child.

I think the question has been answered more times than necessary myself. If the answer that was given is not satisfactory to the concerned parties, then ask the Marketplace staff, as has been advised many, many times in this thread.

There are Community Staff, who deal with all issues concerning the community side of Renderosity,  and then there are Marketplace staff..who deal with all issues relating to the Renderosity Marketplace.

Quote - The question isn't directed at either the marketplace staff or the galleries staff.

The problem here is, is that it is indeed being directed one way or the other...the question is being asked on the community side about practices in the marketplace...to get answers concerning the marketplace, one needs to ask the marketplace staff.

You wouldn't walk into the Wal-Mart Electronics Dept. and ask where the Hardware Dept. keeps their hammers would ya?

Quote - Ah but TerraDreamer, that's the whole point. The question isn't directed at either the marketplace staff or the galleries staff. It's directed at the site in general because it is a question about the whole site. Not just the galleries, not just the market place.

And that is precisely why I post a link to the VP herself.  Make sense?

Quote - As for the 'are you advertising limited intelligence' crack, well if you don't get the irony maybe it's not just me advertising limited intelligence.

Yes, I got the irony...even YOU could understand!  Right??  But did you see the cute wittle smiley facey I weft for wu?  One should watch one's blood pressure, me thinks.

Now I'll tell ya what I'm really more concerned about: I'm concerned that Sharper Image might not get one of my gifts here before Christmas!  Maybe I'd better send them an e-mail and find out the shipping status, huh?  You know...do a little communicating and inquiry.

I'll keep ya posted ;)

Ok, here I go again.

The MarketPlace has stricter guidelines for images than does the gallery.  While it is all one site, the staff is different.  Just like at any other store.  Even Brick 'n Mortar stores.  Again, if you see products where the images included would not, in your opinion, pass mustard in the galleries, you may want to contact the store staff. 
Each Gallery/Forum is moderated by a different set of staff, as well.  I don't always know what's going on in the Lightwave Gallery/Forum, and I don't know what's going on in the Market Place. 

However, and I'm going to repeat this AGAIN.....If we don't know wtf you're talking about, or what product, what image, etc., we can't do jack about it.  It will stay there, and the only thing you'll have accomplished is looking a little more and more like all you want to do is argue. 

So, we can solve the problem, or we can sit here for the next week or so and argue the SAME DAMN POINT over and over, and get nowhere.  Apparently, I have nothing better to do. 

As for Aiko.....no one is saying that she is, out of the box, underaged.  HOWEVER, as with ANY OTHER FIGURE OUT THERE, she can be morphed to look quite young.  Just like V3.  And SP3.  And Posette.  And Dina.  etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

ALSO, one last point.  It drives me nuts when people say that we remove for "child porn" policies.  In effect, our "child porn" policy is zero tolerance....but that's not what we're talking about.  We have CHILD IMAGE GUIDELINES.  We realize that stating that something is "child porn" can be hurtful, so we refrain from doing so, especially because, 9 times out of 10, the image in violation is nothing of the sort.  It is just that the image happens to depict a humanoid character that appears to be under the human age of 18 and is without clothes and/or in a provocative pose/clothing.  We have had to remove quite a lot of very well done art from the galleries simply because of the violation of the TOS.  That happens, sometimes.  This is a private site, with rules clearly laid out.  And, as I've stated before, if you have any problems or questions, do not hesitate to contact any of us on staff.  That's what we're here for!  I didn't volunteer for this job because I wanted to lord power over people!  To the contrary!  I volunteered because I wanted to help people!  And, I, for one, would rather be learning more about the programs I use, so I can eventually help people more, than sitting in here, arguing about this for days on end! 

I have to say that I can't understand why it is so difficult for Renderosity to answer my question. I am not asking for an answer from Community staff and i am not asking for an answer from Marketplace staff. I am asking if Renderosity, as an entity, has one policy on child nudity or whether it has different ones. No-one seems able to answer what is in reality a very simple question
I am not pointing at a merchant and I am not pointing at an artist.
I am asking about a company policy. Or are you saying that the Marketplace staff do not pay any attention to the policies that have been given to the Community staff because no-one in the  company lays down policy for both areas?  

Yes, their guidelines are different.  They are stricter.

That has been said at least 3 times.  So, your question has been answered at least 3 times.