Quote - BTW: that is hair, not nipple. You have a -conforming- hair prop, with a dynamic poncho =over= it.

casette, can you render us an answer to that? show her without the poncho.

Quote - casette, can you render us an answer to that? show her without the poncho.

Mumble, mumble... not sure. I don't store all my pz3 files, and I'm now at work, not at home. But if I still have the file, I'll render a test without the poncho  :)

""I have a question (I'm not an american as you know): do you have museums in America with a note in the entrance: "ONLY +18 YEARS OLD. NUDITY INSIDE" ???""

No casette we have nudity in our museums.  And I apologize for the derailment of your thread, as your picture is not the T&A I have referred to - while I think it warrants a tag, I certainly don't think it's penthouse worthy.

The nudity in our museums is very tasteful, meant to invoke thought, has meaning - even if sometimes the thought is having to do with the beautiful woman in the painting, statue.  I should hope that most adults can tell the difference.  If I upload a boob pic right now, just to show you boobs, does that automatically get labeled as "my art"?  Maybe I will think it is, but I doubt Museums here in America, or those there in Madrid will agree with me and put it on exhibit.

 - can you tell me ; for the constructive viewing - what were you trying to portray with yours?  I'll be honest - I spent a good deal of time looking at it.  I don't get much past a pretty woman in a poncho - is there more there?  Tell me about it.  (This is sincerely an effort at understanding)

I think it's as easy as all you can see: a pretty woman in a lace poncho :)

Or are you searching for a hidden meaning?  O.O

I was indeed trying = D

Damn... I might have answered: "it means An Allegory Of Freedom In Fight With Human Diseases Of Desperation And Overcoming Anxiety From A Sociological-Neorrealistic Point Of View And BlahBlahBlah...

:b_funny:

Quote - Speaking of Artistic nudity, what is an artistic penis?

Good question kawecki, I don't think Picasso or Dali ever did a 'Portrait of a penis'.

Although admittedly Dali did do 'Virgin auto-sodomised by her own chastity'. 

Quote - The nudity in our museums is very tasteful

And what you did with the non-tasteful nudity?, sent it to Salem for its removal?

Quote - Or are you searching for a hidden meaning?

Of course that it must be, you can spin backwards the images to see the subliminal demoniac message.

At least Casette you can be sure that your poncho pic was looked at very closely by the moderators; whether or not they appreciated is another story.

BTW, the picture showing the models feet would be considered highly offensive in China, her feet aren't covered.

Alright, since this debate comes up each and every time.

Repeat after me :

Renderosity is a business site.

As a business, they have to cater to the widest breadth of the market.

Artistic expression will always come second in the greater scheme of profit and exposure.

They are protecting their business interests.   No reason to get up in arms over it anymore.  Dead dead dead thread! 

WHAT?

A salem reference? gg extreme much?  I am actually far removed from some monotheistic republican zealot....

Speaking of looking for meanings behind things, I sure do like how you assume intent or mind frame when asking simple questions.  I MUST think it evil.  You could ask...

Perhaps I just have more appreciation for art intended to provoke thought, that has meaning.  In the book White Oleander the woman asks her daughter if she likes a poem she has written, the daughter replies "yes", she asks "why?" the daughter responds that she doesn't know.  The mother reprimands her and says "Don't say you like it if you don't know why".  I kind of feel the same way about painting, drawing, creating it - "why?"  
"Because I wanted to" - is kind of boring.

p.s. people in Hong Kong wear sandals - they are past the whole foot binding thing these days.

Quote - BTW, the picture showing the models feet would be considered highly offensive in China, her feet aren't covered.

It must be remembered that China has today 130 million internet users and this number is increasing every day, soon will be more internet users in China than the whole US population.
Showing nude feet is nothing family friendly for the Chinese and so, Renderosity cannot be considered a "professional" business site.

Quote - Alright, since this debate comes up each and every time.

Repeat after me :

Renderosity is a business site.

As a business, they have to cater to the widest breadth of the market.

Artistic expression will always come second in the greater scheme of profit and exposure.

They are protecting their business interests.   No reason to get up in arms over it anymore.  Dead dead dead thread! 

Yes, you're quite right.  What got me up in arms originally was the very shabby way Casette was treated IMHO.  What I find offensive is the hipocracy of R'osity, they want to cater to the disneyesque crowd but they also want the income from the t & a crowd.

As they are so concerned about their image they should just say 'no nudity period'.  That might hurt their bottom line so we will witness this undignified dancing for a loooooooooong time to come.

Kawecki-

Yes, and no.

Its professional in the context of the country of origin : )  Renderosity is based in the United States, so it conforms to the cultural status quo : )  Nothing wrong with that, you'll find that in other countries too : )   It is what it is.  Nothing conspiratorial against the Chinese : )  

Quote - Its professional in the context of the country of origin : )  Renderosity is based in the United States, so it conforms to the cultural status quo

And tell me if only Americans are purchasing at Renderosity?
I have no data about how many non-Americans are purchasing here, but you can easily look a the merchant's list and you will have a big surprise!
A professional business is based on the customer's profile and not on their granda profile!

I sure hope this inaccurate steriotype about the chinese doesn't continue.

""In some cultures, bare feet may be considered unsightly or offensive. In Arab countries and in Thailand, it is considered extremely offensive to show someone the sole of your foot, although the practice of not wearing shoes is common, due to various reasons including hot climate & tradition.""

My friends in china are laughing right now.

If you want the real irony regarding this debate, it's that it's mainly left wingers that misquote and apply civil liberties where they don't belong in fact the first amendment clearly does say "congress shall not_______", not "everyone in america shall not".

Quote - Yes, you're quite right.  What got me up in arms originally was the very shabby way Casette was treated IMHO

Hey folks, remember this thread began a amused commentary because I have in my gallery over a 90% of  naked women pics properly tagged. And once I draw a dressed woman (or I consideer she's dressed,against a mod's decission), Rosity jumps over me to tag my pic. This was funny for me, because the final conclusion for me was: "I never will draw dressed women, so I never will doubt if I must to put the nudity tag or not"

Then was a coincidence with the new thumbnails policy, so this kind of topic is very hot nowadays. Oh, yes... and I was banned. So the matter wasn't funny. Nudity tag or not nudity tag for my pic it's a minimal thing...

Attached Link: http://www.nbc10.com/education/9936513/detail.html

No, but I'm sure that will be coming shortly. Right now we just fire excellent art teachers that take students on an APPROVED trip to art museums where children actually saw tasteful nudity, you know, actual art.

There are extremes in every situation.

OMG...

(I'm at home. Finally I stored the pz3 file, so I'm rendering a test pic without the lace poncho to clarify... er... lights and shadows)  ;)

Attached Link: A tribute to nudity!

Yeah and the parents signed permission slips. "Gee I didn't expect they'd have nudity in an art museum." Duh.

"I join an art website, but don't want to see nudity." Same difference.

People who gripe about this sort of silliness are idiots and the powers that be that cave to their idiocy are bigger idiots.

Oh by the way, did I mention I have posted a new pic in the Poser/Humor gallery. It's great, you ought to check it out. It features NUDITY! :O)
 

Quote - All Renderosity is asking us to do is to make a tasteful thumbnail that doesn't have "in your face" boobs, butts and genitals.

Good idea.

However, in my opinion, defining a thong as nude is a bad idea, as it does not jibe with real life.

A smarter solution would have been to come up with a new category - "Revealing Clothing."  Then allow people to filter revealing or tittilating images they do not want to see.  A thumbnail of a thong-clad woman's butt could then be filtered as being "revealing."

Not that I expect anyone in charge of Rendo will listen to this suggestion, but I really feel the essential problem is you are dividing the world into two categories:  Nude and Not Nude.  And the simple fact is that, like much of reality, things are not just black and white.  A thong is not nude.  But you don't go to church wearing one, either.

Quote - Why is it so hard  to crop a tasteful portion of your image that is 200 x 200 pixels and simply upload that when you upload your nude image?

I do.  I usually crop a foot or something non-sexual.  The problem is that nobody clicks on a picture of a foot.

Quote - What is so wrong with Renderosity trying to make arriving at the gallery pages a pleasant experience for everyone?

What's wrong is the effort is doomed from the start.  

Your guidelines, though seeming sensible to you, are still outrageous by the standards of many cultures - such as most Arab cultures, where seeing pretty much any part of the female body is a sin.  Women there don't wear full-body veils in the blazing sun because they enjoy heat-stroke.  Other cultures also have limitations on what is considered "appropriate" for public viewing.

The only way you are going to come up with a set of guidelines that will make everyone happy is if you limit thumbnails and gallery images to pictures of hands and eyes only - but even then, you'll have to have rules about what those hands can be shown touching, as some cultures in the world have very strict rules about what you can touch and what you cannot.

Again:  What's wrong is that the effort is doomed from the start.  What you consider reasonable is not reasonable to all cultures in the world.  You cannot please everyone.

Quote - All revolting is going to do is shoot yourselves in the foot. One day Renderosity is going to get so sick of dealing with these types of issues and the revoltes that happen when they try and make a change to better the website and make it appear more professional and tasteful, that they may  one day decide to stop allowing nudes in the gallery period!   When something becomes too much of a headache to deal with, usually the final solution is to get rid of the problem.

In essence, you are saying "Hey, if you guys don't stop complaining, Renderosity will just punish you by banning all forms of nudity in the galleries!"

Somehow, I do not think that will happen.  I think if they took that step, they may as well just close the site, because they are going to lose the vast majority of the artist community.

Of course, considering that a thong is now considered "nude" here, I suppose you may be right, that's quite possible.
**
**> **Quote -

The above is my own personal opinion and not a statement on behalf of Renderosity.**

The above replies are also my own personal opinion, and I am well aware that nobody in charge of Renderosity nor anyone in the community gives a damn what I think. ;)

The problem is that nobody clicks on a picture of a foot.

Can't agree with that. This is the second-most-viewed-ever pic in my gallery:

Guess Who?
by karen1573

Okay. By request. Here is the comparation (wait some seconds to load):

Quote - The problem is that nobody clicks on a picture of a foot.

Can't agree with that. This is the second-most-viewed-ever pic in my gallery:

1. PLEASE do not just pick this one point and ignore everything else I said.  :P  I would have MUCH preferred to discuss the notion of a "Revealing Clothing" filter than have to argue over feet.

2. The statement was NOT meant as an absolute (I.E. it applies to everyone, results are always zero hits).  It was meant as a general statement (I.E. post a work-safe picture of a face, get less hits than posting a non-work-safe picture of a pair of hooters).

3. I did, however, literally mean "a picture of a foot."  
   This is a picture of a foot, from my gallery thumbs:
   

That image doesn't have enough ratings yet to show it's stars.  And, like most of the images I post where I attempt to be "work safe", that image will likely take a week or two before it finally gets four ratings.  Some have taken months before they got four ratings.  Some simply never get four ratings, period.  Not enough clicks.

What you showed, however, is not a picture of a foot.  It is a picture of a pair of bare legs, and is, for many people, NOT "work safe."  Compare:

See the difference?

Work Safe = Not enough hits to get a rating.
Not Work Safe = Usually gets a rating in half an hour, less if it's actually somewhat revealing, and can get a rating in less than five minutes if actual breasts or buttocks of attractive females are shown.

Do I think that's good?

No, I think it SUCKS.  

I'd MUCH rather not have to appeal to purient interests just to get four stinkin' ratings.  But, here at Rendo, that's the only way to do it.  There are literally tens of thousands of artists, and they post constantly - usually no less than one image a minute and up to five images a minute, and more on weekends when the kiddies aren't in school.  Any image I post has half an hour to get a rating, or it drops off the first page and ceases to exist.  Hence, since none of my images have particularly tittilating thumbs, most simply don't have ratings.

Nobody clicks on a picture of a foot.

Yeah the nipple is what I saw on the right boob, not the left as someone mentioned earlier with the hair.

side note: those are some truly massive mammories.

Well, and... ?

(note: I never denied I usually draw big breasts)

(LANGUAGE ADVISORY)

1) PLEASE do not just pick this one point and ignore everything else I said.  :P  I would have MUCH preferred to discuss the notion of a "Revealing Clothing" filter than have to argue over feet.

Well, I didn't have anything to say to your other points. Sorry ;o)

Regardless, both images are fine according to our guidelines. I don't know where you live or work, but my company would certainly not have a problem with an image of someone's legs. Especially since many of our female staff wear skirts above the knee.

I would like to ask you why you would want ratings/hits/comments from people who are, basically, only interested in viewing nudes?

I went through a period in my gallery where I experimented with putting boobs or bums in the thumb. I may have got more hits but not necessarily more comments, and certainly not the constructive and useful comments I crave. I'm all for recognition and popularity but "OMG SHE'S HOTTT" isn't it.

She has no four nipples????

Quote - She has no four nipples????

(psst... er... yes, but there're in her back) :lol:

Quote - > Quote - She has no four nipples????

 

(psst... er... yes, but there're in her back) :lol:

Reminds me of the three breasted prostitute in Total Recall. ;=)
DPH

My father always said that woman should have breasts in the back.

I got a tattoo of a naked fairy back there so I would = D

Quote - I got a tattoo of a naked fairy back there so I would = D

:lol:

Quote - Regardless, both images are fine according to our guidelines.

I know. =)

Quote -  I don't know where you live or work...

I live right in the heart of Democrat-country - New Mexico, USA. ;)

As far as where I work, I work for myself and work at home, so that's not a problem.  My wife, however, doesn't have this luxury - she has a computer at work, and there are males who have access to the same computer, and being male, they browse websites which have pictures of women.  And yes, pictures of women's legs or women in bikinis have gotten people fired, there.

Quote - I would like to ask you why you would want ratings/hits/comments from people who are, basically, only interested in viewing nudes?

I don't.  Hence, My gallery has lots of thumbnails of women's feet. =P

Quote - I'm all for recognition and popularity but "OMG SHE'S HOTTT" isn't it.

LOL!

Well, it's been my experience that no matter what I post, I can expect very few hits, very few comments, very few useful observations.  Most of the replies I get really are comments like "OMG SHE'S HOTTT."  I don't know how to attract more salient opinions, but I'm not about to post a thumbnail of a pair of tits to try to get it.

Quote - Well, at this point, I'm finding Rendo to be kind of barren, as far as useful comments are concerned.  No matter what I post, I can expect very few hits, very few comments, very few useful observations.  Most of the replies I get really are comments like "OMG SHE'S HOTTT."  Unfortunately, that's about the level of replies I've come to expect.  I don't know how to attract more salient opinions, but I'm not about to post a thumbnail of a pair of tits to try to get it.

I don't see the new thumbnail policy as bad as some people say. Are they prohibiting nudity? Nah. Only in thumbs. Really it's a too easy trick to get hits (and ohmygod, some people looks like they receive gasoil bonus or supermarket discounts with them as obsessed are with this topic). What is important for you, the entire pic or a way to get hits for your ego? If you want hits, use easier tricks: TITLE: 'HEY, MEGABOOBS HERE' or 'HUNDRED OF BUTTS!!'

... or if nudity is a vehicle to show beauty, sure you prefer to be more subtle... a leg, a neck, a face. A tit in the middle of the thumb is the easiest thing of the world (I use it at Rotica, but the matter is different there)

Hmmm... Okay, the shadows on the left breast matched the hair coloring so closely that it looked like the hair extended that far. My bad.

Quote - I don't see the new thumbnail policy as bad as some people say.

My problem with the policy is that it unrealistically divides the world into "nude" and "not nude."  A better solution would have been to create a new filter, "revealing clothing."  A thong is not nude, but you don't go to church wearing one.

Quote - What is important for you, the entire pic or a way to get hits for your ego?

To me, what I'm seeking is comments that allow me to understand how I might improve what I am doing either for overall artistic merit or emotional impact.

Quote -  If you want hits, use easier tricks: TITLE: 'HEY, MEGABOOBS HERE' or 'HUNDRED OF BUTTS!!'

I've been tempted to post a picture titled "TITS!" with an appropriate thumbnail.  Just to see what would happen. ;-)

As my friend Sigmund Freud always says, "megaboobs are so scary".....

JF- very few hits?  very few comments? 181 views on an image with a  thumbnail of a foot is very few?  115 in one day? 13 people adding you as a favorite artist, and 32 adding your images as favorites?   wow, you have pretty high expectations, imho.  i think you're doing pretty well, considering the size of the community and how many are vying for attention.  looking at your gallery (which i've visited before), i'm not surprised you don't get many "useful" comments, if by that you mean constructive criticism.  you have a very specific style, and i don't think anyone could tell you how to better achieve it.  a lot of the standard, "here's how to improve your lights, here's how to improve your composition, here's how to improve your pose, etc." advice wouldn't really be appropriate.  especially in cases where most of the story is in the text, with the image just serving as illustration rather than the image telling the story and the text just adding a bit a finish.

though if you're interested, i could give you some feedback.

Quote - I've been tempted to post a picture titled "TITS!" with an appropriate thumbnail.  Just to see what would happen.

And what about a thumb with the title: "Artistic Penis"?

Quote - I've been tempted to post a picture titled "TITS!" with an appropriate thumbnail.  Just to see what would happen. ;-)

Toons of hits, sure :lol:

:lol:

i know i'd click, just out of curiousity.

Quote - JF- very few hits?  very few comments? 181 views on an image with a  thumbnail of a foot is very few?

Compared to this, yes:

Over 50,000 hits for a picture of a cow's udders. ;-)

Quote - 115 in one day? 13 people adding you as a favorite artist, and 32 adding your images as favorites?   wow, you have pretty high expectations, imho. 

No, I just hold myself to a high standard. After all, I HAVE to do better than a picture of a cow's udders. ;-)

Quote -  i think you're doing pretty well, considering the size of the community and how many are vying for attention.

You may be right. =)

Actually, come to think of it, you probably are right.  

Nevermind my previous comments, then.  Expect lots more thumbnails of pretty feet. ;-)

Quote -
Regardless, both images are fine according to our guidelines. I don't know where you live or work, but my company would certainly not have a problem with an image of someone's legs. Especially since many of our female staff wear skirts above the knee.

Hmm.  Which is unacceptable to Orthodox Jews, many Muslims, several Christian sects and assorted other groups around the world.

You should be ashamed.

Jim, I know it's hard to get constructive crit. One way is to make sure you state that in the image notes. Yes, you can select "Critical and non-critical comments preferred" but some people are still reluctant to critique unless you specifically ask.

Another way is to build a kind of "network" of people who you know appreciate getting critique, and "exchange" critiques. You give honest comments to them, hopefully they give it to you in return.

You can also post in the Art Theory forum here where there are usually several pics being critiqued as we speak.

If I had more time, I would love to start some kind of "Critique Group" but I rarely even have time to render any more (violins play, hearts bleed, yeah yeah LOL)

By the way - I'm in the UK so probably my bosses are a bit more forgiving than your wife's. Being in trouble for looking at legs sounds a bit harsh!

Keith, I'm flagellating myself as we speak ;-)

Quote - Jim, I know it's hard to get constructive crit. One way is to make sure you state that in the image notes. Yes, you can select "Critical and non-critical comments preferred" but some people are still reluctant to critique unless you specifically ask.

Well, I suppose that's true.  I often find I don't have anything to say, myself, when I look at an image.  I just popped over to look at a Poser render which was based on a work by Botticelli, and I'm looking at the morph work and I'm thinking...  "Okay, yes, the figure looks realistic, yes...  But it's realistically ugly."  But, all the other comments were "WOW, SHE'S TEH HOTZORZ!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!elventy-one!!!!", so I didn't say anything.  LOL!

Quote - By the way - I'm in the UK so probably my bosses are a bit more forgiving than your wife's. Being in trouble for looking at legs sounds a bit harsh!

Yep.  But, that's the way life is in the Bible Belt™.  ;-)

Karen1573's the Albino?..;)
I think I saw Hundred of Butts with Corrosion of Conformity and the Dead Kennedy's in Raleigh in the early 80's, but I was buzzed at  the time..;)

I did get a strange message last night posting a pic. I'd made a thumbnail, and posted, and it said my thumbnail didn't meet guidelines (it was 195*198), and it made a pic of the whole thing. I wonder if it's from the Uzlite outfit (it looks leather to me, presumably you'd have to have industrial-strength nipples to poke through that bit..;)

Don't get mad, get creative. Take the restrictions and play with them. Follow the rules, but don't let it be a restriction, just a path you haven't explored yet.