Okay, let me start by saying I have no greivances against the merchants. They put this stuff up for sale, and apparently Rosity (as well as all the other sites carrying similar items) feels it will. But look at it, guys. It's all the same: yeah, different outfits, different textures -- but different only in the slightest when it comes to ideas. And it's been all the same for too long now, as far as I'm concerned.

There's a thread here about what's ultimately going to bring Poser (and by association, Studio) down. Well, much as I hate to say it, it's this stuff: more and more reinforcement that Poser is nothing but a Barbie factory... and all the high-end uses and all the gorgeous renders just aint gonna change that. Folks outside our little universe are gonna look at this and say, "Yeah. right", because this is the overwhelming impression out there.

(Would someone please prep the "dead horse" image? You're probably gonna need it.)

And apparently it's what the user base wants, so Godspeed, guys. It's just not for me anymore. I've put several years into this program, both as a hobby and as a professional tool -- and despite all the advances I've seen over the years, ultimately, all it comes down to, time and again, is this endless parade of interchangable runway models, with the focus becoming narrower and narrower as the years have passed.

Yes, we have some stunning architecture props from folks like Stonemason -- and they get promoted with (wait for it!) a one-size-fits-all pretty girl model. Someone builds a kick-ass car model, and it gets promote with (you know it's coming!) another one-size-fits-all pretty girl model.

Sure, sex sells -- no debate on that point. What I miss is the imagination, the creativity. The user base has become so dependent on the merchants that now, even the simplest thing of making a transparency map for a body suit seems outside the base's skillset, because they need someone else to make it for them.

So I'll ask it: what happened, guys? These fora used to be rampaging with ideas thrown back and forth. Someone would pick up a texture and rework it and throw it back out there for someone else to play with. But now we all sit... and wait... for someone else to do with the work for us because, apparently, we just dont know how anymore. And in all that waiting, the folks supplying the user base with its toys have become so narrow in its focus that it's reduced everything down to... well, what I saw in the MP this morning.

And that's pretty sad. Well, to me, anyway. I guess not to most of you, and that's cool. Like I said, Godspeed, folks. But IMHO it's all gotten way too predictable.

It's been fun, and I've met some very cool people in the process, and I'm thankful for that, honest. But I look at what the program and the user base have become, and I know I just have no place here right now.

Just my 0.02 -- no doubt worth every penny of it.

Maybe yer just shopping in the wrong store, sean. Go look at daz's pa mainstore first page, or RDNA's first page of stuff.

On Daz's I see cars, dinosaurs, sewers, toon chicken, new curly male hair, sharks, houses, furniture, all sorts of things.

So yer tossing in the towel because of one store page on one specific day?

Sounds to me like you were just looking for an excuse anyway.

Just take a break and come back when whatever is REALLY bothering you is past.

>> So yer tossing in the towel because of one store page on one specific day?

Garree, if it were just one store page on specific day, you might have a point. But it's not, and let's not kid ourselves otherwise. The Poser user base lives and breathes the "pretty girl" stuff. It's been that way for a really long time, and all the sewer props and toon chickens arent going to change that. Need I remind you of the debacle that was March Madness at DAZ? Shall I do a screen capture of the store at RDNA?

And if I were simply looking for an excuse, as you say, believe me, I think I could have come up with something slightly more original, like a dying grandmother or that my dog ate my Poser backup. No, the simple truth is that I'm right, and you know it. And I'm not complaining about it; I'm simply saying it's no longer my thing when it gets reduced to this.. and silly me, I just wanted to share my worthless opinion. Great for everyone else, not for me. That's all, bud.

Well I'll miss your posts for the most part and your boy comic guys. Here's the dead horse though.

Stick around :)

There are things in the MP here and at other stores that are interesting.

I don't bother looking at the most popular items or the front page ads or the front page of the MP here. Because like you said, everything that I see in those areas seem to me to be the same.  A gazillion hair or outfit textures for the most recently released  hair or outfit.  And all of the V4 characters looks nearly the same and the skin is so plastic looking. And most forget to do anything with the shape of the face and especially the eyes.

The following are more along the lines of what I am looking for these days because I'm sick of the perfect/flawless Barbie Dolls too.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=63826&

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=59463&

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=60858&

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=62396&

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=64043

Spend some time looking through the stores that aren't "the post popular" or "top sellers".  It takes some effort unfortunately, but it's worth it.

I generally only do real-world oriented pics (with a few exceptions), and I've had very little difficulty locating real-world props, etc when I needed them. Although I agree that the market seems to be glutted with the pinup-girl stuff, as well as sci-fi and fantasy stuff, but there's still a lot of good real-world stuff there. Also don't forget freebies.
And one of the reasons I learned to model was so I could make what I couldn't buy or download.
I might suggest downloading Wings3d (there's a link to the download site in the forum banner of the Wings forum here), and try your hand at modeling.

He's absolutely right about the pretty girl syndrome. I am a newbie to Poser having used it just the last three years. At first I found it to be very difficult to learn until I found the numerous tutorials on the net and books available. Frankly I really like the pretty girl textures and characters available, some of the sexy clothes are also very intriguing BUT I do get what he's saying and see his point. I think what we all need to understand is the program is exactly what it's been named, Poser. It's all about the characters first, everything else is kinda secondary, so of course your going to see everything geared toward the pretty girl and even guy. I have been reading some posts that some of us are concerned about where Poser might be going now that Smith Micro purchased the rights to the software. I too am wondering what will become of it. In the meantime, I will continue to use it for what I think it's really meant for and that's posing characters in different situations for art andor animation. I am currently working on a Poser girl modeling type of animation and will share it with everyone once I get it finished. I hope we don't see a whole bunch of users jumping ship because I have really enjoyed using this product.

Keep the faith!

Sean, set Daz's store view to max number of entries.. then list the first 3 entire pages... yeah you'll see a bunch of cheesecake stuff as usual, but I'd say more then 50% of the items listed are other uses.

The glass is either half full, or half empty.

Quote - I generally only do real-world oriented pics (with a few exceptions), and I've had very little difficulty locating real-world props, etc when I needed them.

I'm still looking for a great 3d garage scene somewhere, with lifts and autos and toolboxes.  :)

The OP isn't completely wrong, but I'm not sure quitting is the solution.  Depends on how badly you want to be part of the change - personally I see opportunity where you are seeing a void.  I'm working hard to get up to speed on Maya, zbrush and Shade.  I want to make scenery and props that will be useful for all sorts of personal or commercial applications - and because I'm a geek that way so it'll give me some pleasure. :)

I'm coming from a perspective that goes back to Poser 2, Paintshop and the old Truespace, then to Second Life and back to Poser 7 with Maya and Photoshop CS3.  Second Life has a lot of similarites to Poser in terms of the look of the avatars and the things people want to do with them (the cheesiness and the low rez look aside).  But what I hear the OP saying is very much what a lot of people have said about Second Life - it's overrun with Barbie Dolls, and my unscientific guess is that about 70% of the merchant content there targets those Barbie Dolls with hoochie hair, stilleto heels, stripper outfits and sex animations.

That's the way of the world, though.  It's not just that sex sells, it's the reasons sex sells - sex is a basic, powerul human urge and we tend to find ways to express it in just about any venue.

The solution?  I look at Second Life and see the imaginative vehicles, the incredible architecture and the impressive scripting talents on display that get most of the press and less of the individual resident attention.  There's a lot of good there to go along with the schlock.

Why should Poser and Rendo be exempt from standard human behavior?  This place to me is like a fun scavenger hunt - I have to dig past the same-old-same-old to find the unique, imaginative stuff.  And if I don't find it, well there's another opportunity for me to work on filling a void.   I think I can do just fine coexisting with all the Barbie stuff.  They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I just capped them myself.. here's what i see under pa products, th first 3 pages.. and more then 50% is non female oriented items. I was actually just thinking this morning myself, that daz has gotten more diverse of late...

Quote - I was actually just thinking this morning myself, that daz has gotten more diverse of late...

Bringing on new vendors to Art Zone has helped immensely! Lots of vendors from Poser Pros, as well as several others have recently joined Daz/Art Zone. And when you search at Daz you also get the benefit of seeing the items that are available at Art Zone. Items that normally wouldn't have been accepted at Daz at one time are being made available at Daz through Art Zone.

So I think the changes are for the good of the Poser community as a whole in that regard.

You just have to look past the glitz and, eh, tits and find those real gems that interest you.  I too get tired of seeing a page full of Jessica Alba clones with barely distinguishable hair, makeup, dresses, morphs, and so on.  But I keep checking and picking out those things that I like.  I only purchase helmet-hair when it is needed for customer support or would be too complicated for dynamic hair as I have real dynamic hair in Cinema 4D that does a superiorly realistic job.

I like Dinosaurs so I keep buying those.  Put the Dino in a dress, makeup, and long,flowing hair and I'll probaby skip it. ;)

why not take teh time in your hyatus grab a cheap/free modeling app and learn to model if you do not know already...grab a cheap/free image manipulation software and learn to do it your self...basically the only thing that I buy any more are textures cause I cannot seem to be able to make a convinsing one, other then that I just see what I like and make my own.

Quote - why not take teh time in your hyatus grab a cheap/free modeling app and learn to model if you do not know already...grab a cheap/free image manipulation software and learn to do it your self...basically the only thing that I buy any more are textures cause I cannot seem to be able to make a convinsing one, other then that I just see what I like and make my own.

I've been encouraging one of my friends to take up texturing because she is always complaining that so many characters look too 'real" with bumpy skin and blotches and moles etc. She likes the air-brushed, blemish-free, perfect looking skin textures and she doesn't think there are enough of those around.

So there are 2 halves of the coin. One half feels there is too much "blemish-free Barbies" and the other feels there isn't enough.

What I do nto like about textures is that they still use a porus bumpmap on a heavilly makeuped face??? Whats up with that...when my wife wears make up you cannot see her pores anymore LOL/

Attached Link: Election Suit for V4(Poser)

I too, am generally fed up with the same stuff being churned out all the time, but we're not forced to buy it so I guess it's not something I can properly complain about. Yeah, I have my weak moments, so sometimes I will buy the obvious fantasy stuff if it's appealing!

There's no real point in discussing the sex sells issue because it's always been that way & probably always will. I think what people really want is just more choice. I agree that Daz does have more variety in their store so I'm sure there's something for everyone.

Here's a gripe of mine. For me to buy a character these days (which I very rarely do) there must be a really good texture with it or something unique which sets it apart. What is it with all these V4's that just seem to have a couple of different morphs from another one. I'm not going to name any merchants (there's a few) as that wouldn't be fair but if you look at some of their characters, they're pretty much the same from one to the next apart from a minor tweak & a different texture. There's quite a few who do this. I was going to ask why is this but that would be silly, it's obvious why. I know merchants have a particular style which is all well & good, but if you're going to ask people to buy a new character, at least REALLY make it a new chatacter & not just a clone of an old one.

I pretty much always do my own characters for my work but I do rely on outfits I have bought. I guess if I had the time & patience I would rather create all my own stuff but I know it's not going to happen at this moment in time.

So, I'm still a sucker for buying the odd eye candy stuff which comes up.
I must say though that when something new from the likes of Stonemason comes along it's great to see.

kuroyume0161 - What's wrong with Jessica Alba? :ohmy:

Attached Link: odegami's Rikishi

Mugatu: SHUT UP! Enough already, Ballstein! Who cares about Derek Zoolander anyway? The man has only one look, for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I invented the piano key necktie, I invented it! What have you done, Derek? You've done nothing! NOTHIIIING! And I will be a monkey's uncle if I let you ruin this for me, because if you can't get the job done, then I will!

Sean, you're right about the marketplace.  And I'll add to the chorus suggesting you take up 3d modeling -- though renderosity advantages the soft-core porn market to the detriment of other uses for poser, I'd rather you stuck around to help tip the balance toward better art and less barbie.

To tell the truth, I can't tell one actress in Hollywood from the next without a cheatsheet, so it's not just Poser characters. Let's face it, Bette Davis wouldn't get cast in anything these days. You can still get some decent looks by just spinning dials in Poser. Get a basic skin mat, and mess with it. Find a few good outfits and change them around, paint on them, mix them up. Using anything just as it comes out of the box is no fun. Take one of those 'pretty' characters and make some of the features less than perfect.

*" But it's not, and let's not kid ourselves otherwise. The Poser user base lives and breathes the "pretty girl" stuff."

*Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that pretty girl stuff sells, and sells and sells - and probably will as long as majority of poser users have a sex drive and attraction to females.

I modeled a few non-female non sex orientd pieces, and they get neglected - as freebies or as sale items.

Girly stuff gets a lot more attention, and means more sales for merchants.

Reminds me of the debates where many poser users complain that their female image full of sexual connotations don't get respect in other art circles (commonly referred to as the elite circles). Well, sure, someone cranking out pinup after a pinup after a pinup will get less attention in art world at large then someone with more artistic versatility.
Here on Rendo and other places which have tolerance for fairly expressive sexuality, pinups will get more attention.

However.... [insert a pic of a dead horse being beaten up here]

Making things is vastly better occupational therapy than posing things. 

I've been in a terrible mood lately, so I sez to myself,
Self, what would it take to get out of this mood? 
And Self answered:
Well, a 1939 Bantam would do it. 
So I made one, and now I feel better.

Hey Sean

Check it out.  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2740459
I'm working on her low rider, clothes and hair, right now.  If you would like a copy pm me here.  BTW you can use her for commercial renders if you'd like.

Cheers

Pat 

I agree with you and I haven't bought a single items here for over a year now, I see the similair items released over and over again. But I must admit that I do see the same happening at DAZ also, they don't offer to much truly new stuff at all either. I've been wondering for a while now..... do I really need all those dinos and dragons released? Do I really need all those clothing items that look a like? Do I really need 10 of the same buildings and interiors with minor differences? I guess not, so my purchases are very few lately.

I've been saving so much money by NOT visiting DAZ and Rendo's stores and NOT buying any of the look-a-likes offered over and over again, that I actually finally was able to buy all the stuff I liked at RDNA, at least they offer some original stuff even if some of it is a bit older, still new to me.

I even could afford to pick up Poser Pro on the side.

Please do keep on making all of these look-a-likes and release the same genre over and over again and soon I'll be able to buy Vue Infinite and perhaps even 3D Studio Max!

I switched to Vue 6 Pro Studio when it was on sale. You can still use almost all your Poser content and convert  it to Vue, but it opens up huge new possibilities with land scapes and so on. I too was just sick of Poser and its crappy render engine. I only buy interesting characters that are really different now and I collect animals and old buildings. I needed to learn a new program. I have been offline for several weeks now learning Vue. Poser is very limiting especially with its memory problems and trying to do outdoor scenes.

Quote - I buy stuff like this whenever I can. I want to support the artist but also... WOW! It is an amazing piece of work! It poses and renders beautifully. If all the MP clothes could be this good. And check out the price!

I buy stuff like that outfit, too.....and stuff like Rikishi & his add-ons.  I also buy buildings, vehicles, room settings, environments, outdoor scenes -- anything along those lines that happens to strike my fancy.  I also buy V4 characters and V4 clothes of all sorts.  IMO: eclectic is the way to go.

BUT: when it comes right down to it, whatever other people do or do not choose to buy isn't an issue which concerns me very much.  I certainly don't base my personal Poser-content purchasing decisions upon what someone else does or does not happen to like.  It's a topic which is worth knowing about from a purely standard-marketing point of view: and the (successful) market bows to that reality.  But insofar as what I choose to consume on a personal level -- well, that's my choice.  Other people's Poser-content choices are their own affair.

BTW - the interest in "pretty girls" isn't going to go away.  It never has gone away throughout the entire history of the human race.  Even the Artistic Masters of the Olden Days recognized that foundational aspect of human nature.  Heh -- even the current crop of "highenders" bow to it; but in the interest of being PC, they don't always openly acknowledge what they are doing......perhaps not even to themselves.  Claiming that true "highend" CG primarily features.....what, exactly?  Monsters, scifi environments, and........beautiful women.  With 'toons, too.  But not very many depictions of the ordinary.  Because the ordinary doesn't catch the eye.

Highend 3D, by and large, covers exactly the same sort of territory that Poser does.  It's just that they can often do it more realistically -- and that they don't like to admit it.

It's true that the pretty-girls stuff sells more than others. when I was a merchant I made quite a number of real world items and sets that sold very little , or in a few cases, none at all. Things like a hobo campsite, a homeless shelter, and other things that I had never seen sold or given away anywhere else. The ones that didn't sell at all I released later as freebies.

"Barbie Dolls with hoochie hair, stilleto heels, stripper outfits and sex animations."

What's wrong with that?

"What is it with all these V4's that just seem to have a couple of different morphs from another one."

Now that is true and the reason is because that is all, 95% of the charactures in the market place, are. They are nothing but dial turns that anyone can do if they wanted to take the time to do it.

These days it's what can someone else do for me so I don't have to and better yet, do it for me for free. It looks to me like Poser/DS users have been dummying down, except a few innovators in the past few years. It also doesn't help when some always tell newbies it is so hard to do something when it's not, it takes time but it's not hard. So we lose fresh minds from that. Also Daz dictates where and how to use thier figures and these new users think thats normal and expect it.

Do what many of us are doing these days and learn to model, texture and rig. I don't buy much anymore or I just buy the new figure and model everything for it myself. I find that these other 3rd party figures are much easier to use and work with in all my software, specially poser, than the Daz figures do. Model it yourself and you get what you want every time.

Is it that time of year, again. The "I quit/leaving," threads are starting to happen.?

Jeff,  are those items still available?  I see your Juvie stuff in the freestuff here,
but I don't see the homeless shelter and hobo camp.  Would like to get them.

Quote - when I was a merchant I made quite a number of real world items and sets that sold very little , or in a few cases, none at all. Things like a hobo campsite, a homeless shelter, and other things that I had never seen sold or given away anywhere else. The ones that didn't sell at all I released later as freebies.

I will purchase items like that, if I feel that I'll have a use for them.  BTW - we have some very successful and highly talented environment modelers in our MP.

Quote - It's true that the pretty-girls stuff sells more than others.

And for whatever underlying reason -- that fact seems to bother some people beyond words.  Precisely why it does, I dunno -- but it does.

BTW - I've heard in the past that in the RW (Real World), the sales of women's clothes runs something like 4-to-1 to the sales of men's clothes (Or was that 5-to-1?  I forget.).  So at least in that aspect: the overall Poser market trends in the same direction as does.......reality.  Odd, that.

Quote - Jeff,  are those items still available?  I see your Juvie stuff in the freestuff here,
but I don't see the homeless shelter and hobo camp.  Would like to get them.

I'm not putting those up as freebies because they sold a few copies, and giving it away free would be unfair to the people that paid for them.

*"I've been saving so much money by NOT visiting DAZ and Rendo's stores and NOT buying any of the look-a-likes offered over and over again, that I actually finally was able to buy all the stuff I liked"

"Please do keep on making all of these look-a-likes and release the same genre over and over again and soon I'll be able to buy Vue Infinite and perhaps even 3D Studio Max!"*

Yep, my best purchase at Daz since P4 in 2001, was the Modo 101 deal that got me Modo 301 at the upgrade price. Also with savings It helps pay for my college coarses in 3D animation. Wish they would let me use modo to model in instead of 3DMax. though. LOL.

*quote: I modeled a few non-female non sex orientd pieces, and they get neglected - as freebies or as sale items.

Girly stuff gets a lot more attention, and means more sales for merchants.

I've wrestled with this same thing for all of the years I've been a vendor here too. You'd love to have a much more diversified product line but the customer base drives the marketplace and it's the 'girly' stuff that sells. I hold out for as long as I can with my products and then have to give in to the 'girly' stuff to get the sales I need. It's very frustrating but I don't know what else to do about it. I'd love to make more stuff for the male characters but you know going in that it's not going to make you much money.

I completely understands Sean's complaint though and fully empathize with it. The same thing could be said about the Poser gallery too. With all the emphasis on female-centric images there is a similar drain of creative energy.

• Rick

>> Is it that time of year, again. The "I quit/leaving," threads are starting to happen.?

Okay, let's get a few things understood, because apparently my English isnt that good.

(1) This isnt a "I'm leaving forever!!!" kind of thread... at least that's not my intention. My intention is that, while I'm sure the direction Poser is headed is wonderful for most, it's just not that for me any more. I still use the program extensively, for hobbyist images and professional work -- right now I'm in the middle of a massive series of :10 and :15 animations for a fitness company, and Poser is my mainstay in that. So I'm not dropping the program, guys -- just reconsidering my place in the Poser community these days. Nothing wrong with that -- we all go through periods of re-evaluation sometimes, right? It was a sad day I left the Navy too, but it was time to move on.

(2) I do a lot of my own modeling, as a matter of fact. For the aforementioned project, they have proprietary machinery, and all of that has be created from scratch. And it's amazing what you can get out of FormZ these days. :)

(3) yes, sex sells -- it even did back in the pre-DAZ P3 and P4 days (Check the most viewed image in the Rosity gallery. :) ). My issue is that DAZ has now run roughshod over the whole Poser community with a figure that becomes more and more polygonally heavy and needlessly complex with each new iteration. Our entire Poserverse revolves around one character mesh, and I find that truly saddening because the result is that most users dont even bother with what comes with the program -- instead, they rush to continue the Vickie mythos, even before theyre sufficiently skilled in the basics of the program itself. And they find themselves floundering with morph channels and injections and hidden dials and everything else that's confounding for even advanced users. But somehow they feel it's necessary to do so, because, frankly, we dont seem to give them much choice.

Now, let me underscore yet again -- this is just my take on the situation. Clearly DAZ and its flagship mesh have a helluva lot of cheerleaders out there, so they must be doing something right. And by doing so, they've allowed for folks like Stefan and Steve at 3DU to bring their wares out into the public eye. But you all have to admit, it's stagnated the program to a horrible degree... at least to me. And I take full responsibllity for that position.

But what all this comes down to -- again, as far as I'm concerned with my future with this program -- is that it's not the same community spirit. It's all merchandizing and making sure almost everything merchandized revolves around the Showgirl. And it just gets tedious and boring and repetitive -- for me and probably just for me. So rather than whine about things I know will never change, I'll go back to making my little images and putting them on my little website for pretty much my own gratification... and if anyone comes across them, bonus points all around.

Y'all seen the latest Daz/Artzone Newsletter? Vicky gets a new look. "Modern Muses" for V4 Elite -- which ain't even out yet. Looks like another V4 morph coming our way and the ad copy's a doozie, too: "Everyone needs one" and (my favorite eye-roller) "Oh yeah, she'll get your synapses firing."

And to think, here I was about to (finally) do some girly renders to balance out my gallery and placate my inner Lesbian who is arguing I spend way too much time on guys, even if I do stick 'em in dresses and call 'em wizards. Unfortunately after seeing this my inner Feminist in a frenzy and threatening to wreak havoc if I even think about "surrendering to the Barbie T&A madness".

Help, I'm having a complex! Or whatever. Anyway, if this keeps up, I'm gonna go bonkers.

 "This isnt a "I'm leaving forever!!!" kind of thread... at least that's not my intention"

My mistake, I read one a few posts down and clumped this one with it. You have seen it. When one crops up others do too, like weeds. LOL

Would you like a copy of Plain Jane when I'm finished.  She's 7 heads tall and a size 12.

Cheers

Pat

Complaining about this topic is equivalent to complaining about the fact that water won't flow uphill.  And the results of the complaining will be about equally effective in both cases.

I can't control what other people choose to do.  Nor can anyone.  When it comes to matters of personal taste: if I choose to "go against the flow" -- then I do so for myself.  Not in the hopes that others, en masse, will fall in line behind me.  That would be a forlorn hope.

When you come right down to it: people tend to go their own way, and they tend to buy what they like: rather than what someone else says that they should like (by whoever's chosen definition of "should").  People are like that.  Heh -- and this is a reality which has been the bane of every frustrated utopian who's ever attempted to force other people to fit into an "ideal" mold.  Hint: it doesn't work.  People just won't fit into that mold.  They'll keep buying what they want to buy -- no matter what I or what anyone else has to say about it.

Anyone can get bitter about it, if they like.  But water still won't flow uphill regardless.  Personally, I choose to go my own way.....and to let others concern themselves with their own buying decisions.  I'm sure that they'll buy whatever they buy without the slightest internal reference as to whether or not I happen to approve of their purchases -- for ideological reasons or otherwise.

Jane, eh? Looks interesting.

*Jane, eh? Looks interesting.

She's the anti-vicky!  LOL!  PM me if you'd like a copy.

Quote - Here's the start on her low rider.

Plain Jane is going to have wheels?  At least she should be able to get wherever she needs to go, then. 

Well I for one will miss Sean around here. I've had a boy crush on these two guy figures of his for I don't know how long!

Quote - here's the ref i'm using for her first outfit.

With gasoline prices doing what they are doing -- I suppose that it's a good thing that she rides a motorcycle.  Although the girl on that bike doesn't look so "plain" to me.........and that's not a standard office-wear outfit.  At least not in any of the offices that I've ever worked in.

*Although the girl on that bike doesn't look so "plain" to me.........and that's not a standard office-wear outfit.  At least not in any of the offices that I've ever worked in.

LOL!  Her office is a poolroom.

Quote - LOL!  Her office is a poolroom.

That would be one of my guesses. 

BTW - I, for one, am more than happy to see an array of "ordinary" female clothing items coming online in the MP recently.  I've purchased several outfits of that description -- and I'll buy more as it comes in.  Great stuff.  I generally prefer real-world clothing items, and I only occasionally stray into 'non-standard' clothing.

I tend to prefer realism in scenes -- and you can't do that with stuff that nobody actually wears in real life.  Or at least they don't wear it if they don't want to be generally regarded as a nutcase.  I liked the fairly recent television commercial where a woman wore a runway original designer dress to a PTA meeting......and caught the looks on the other parent's faces in reaction.

So......'ordinary' clothing.  That's (usually) my taste for Poser outfits.  But not everyone agrees with me on that score.

Quote - Well I for one will miss Sean around here. I've had a boy crush on these two guy figures of his for I don't know how long!

Well, FWIW, they've been saying some very interesting things about you as well.... :)

Quote - "Well I for one will miss Sean around here. I've had a boy crush on these two guy figures of his for I don't know how long! "

Well, FWIW, they've been saying some very interesting things about you as well.... :)

Take the fight outside, you two.  Someones beer might get spilt and if it's mine I'll be pissed.