I wish to have all your opinions on this one. Recently a new artist who is a friend  and is trying to grow at Renderosity had recieved a refusal of one of her products. Please be with me with this and have the patiance to read carefully the exchanges of mails.

Bob Stuyck wrote:

It has been brought to my attention that you have written this mail to one of the vendors in this comunity whom I sponsor.

<removed by JenX>


This annoys me very much and more than that is deeply dissapointing. Befor
continuing I advise you to take a look in my account "bobstuyck" and you
shall see that over the past few months I have spent Thousands of $ so as
for you to know from whom this letter is from. As I can see from your
response to this artist of which I have viewed pics of the product she would
like to post you are telling her that the product is not a seller. From that
I conclude that you are there just for making money and that you are NOT
interested in taking the effort to help new artists. You have come up with
the idea of Renderosity and the place is yours to do as you wish. But we the
Clients or sponsors and artists have made it possible for you to be who you
are. If you can afford to lose sponsors like me then good for you. But there
are more than just me. I have many friends there who would do the same. We
are the comunity. And the pillars of your kingdom could be crumbling apart.
You come up with such ridiculous nonesence about what is art or not. Nudity
is one of them. Nudity is part of art. Yet you allow nudity for your top
vendors and the others not. You also do not allow artists to post unless
they have sold a minimum required by you. It shows that you are there just
to make money ( which indeed is your right) but we are in ART and if you do
not allow new artists to thrive because of the interests of YOUR pockes then
you do not deserve to have sponsors like me to encourage those artists. Art
is a matter of taste and I do not see how a couple of people can decide what
is good or not for thousands and even more. I am an Autocad designer and
Poser is a hobby for me. I buy what I like and mostly from new artists to
encourage them. From what you can see in my account I have also bought many
gifts to help others achieve what they are working on. I enjoy doing this
because I love Poser and am in admiration seeing the beauty that comes from
it.I do not expect a reply from you. Instead, take that time and reevaluate
your protocols and ideals. And if I was you I would start looking up to
people and not down. You should be praising the comunity and not for you to
think it is the other way around.

Yours Truly
Bob

So she brushes me off like dandruff yet in the month of January To encourage all my friends and so on 
this is what I have accumalated in January only. Just to show. 
<span class="bcs_buyer_reward_spending_notice">Current Month Spending: $1,086.80 (reward minimum met)</span>
<span class="bcs_buyer_reward_minimum_notice">$100.00 minimum amount to spend to receive buyer reward of 5% <br></br><br></br>Very Glad to finally meet you GOD, Concerning your response GOD now I truly see the nature of your face and I see<br></br>that you have absolutely no understanding of the Trinity since I am only a third party but yet I sponsor so many<br></br>artists here while you fatten up your pockets. My best Regards Admin (GOD)and hope and wish you luck for the year <br></br>2009. Belive me You will need it !!!  Yours Truly just the Third Party <br></br></span>

Contact Daz Art Zone, or Digital Designs Unlimited.  Both have accepted products of Vendors that Renderosity has turned down.

Hence "We do not discuss individual cases with third parties, but I thank you for your detailed feedback."

Personally I feel this is between the powers that be at Renderosity and the vendor.
The vendor may want to do as Acadia suggested and look to another venue.
Maybe more dialog between the two parties is needed but an open post to the forums
will not change any minds I feel.

It isn't the case to turn to DDU, artzone etc.
What Bob is saying that'Renderosity decides what we (customers) could buy.
There are a lot of diifferent  people with their own needs and tastes regarding (poser) products.
And I can understand his opinion in this matter, as I feel the same.
Who is renderosity to decide what we (customers) like?
That's the odd thing in this case, renderosity never asked me what I like and want to see in the store. So how could they make a decision like that? Based om what standards??
I am very curious.

personally i would see the rejection as an opportunity to improve the product so that it is a product the marketplace would want to sell.

would of been a better idea to ask some of the top vendors, like rebelmommy and thorne and the likes, how much of their stuff has been rejected over the years, and what they did to improve said product, and get it in the marketplace, maybe get some info too about what seems to sell well for them and what does not.

that way you get the feedback on how to be a successful vendor, and you don't break the rules by posting private E-mails to the forums.

The sad part is, one vendor will be told this, yet you will see more products showing up with exactly what they said they had too many of from their top vendors.

:)

Well, a few points to consider:

-- If Rosity is saying they're over-saturated with V4 products, that suggests that there's so many that none are really selling all that well. Even in the digital realm, there's only so much shelf space.

-- Yes, Rosity decides what goes in their store. That's true of every store out there, both digital and real. If you cant find what you want in one, you go to another.

-- If the wannaba-merchant has a Paypal account, why not offer it for private sale and keep all the cash instead of having to take a cut?

Yes, Rosity gets the traffic, probably even more than DAZ. But look what it's resulted in, guys: a glut of stuff that, to be blunt, starts to look alike after a while. Sorry, but I'm going with the PTB on this one. Their sandbox. Their rules.

And this is different from the releases of V1,2, and 3 exactly how?...;) There's always a glut for the latest 'hot' character. Still, if they don't want the merchandise from a given vendor, there's no rule that they have to take it. And there's other sites out there.

Maybe if you release a small sample as a freebie here, then post the whole set on a site that will host the merchandise, you might get both advertisement here, and sales there.

it's a crazy world...

>> "And this is different from the releases of V1,2, and 3 exactly how?"

Not only has the number of users increased but so have the number of merchants -- exponentially, I would imagine. And everyone wants to ride that V4 train, particularly in a tough economy which makes everyone want to try and sell something.

But what I also find somewhat worrisome is that the OP feels that Rosity should accept it because s/he's spent so much money here.

Please refrain from posting private sitemails without the other party's explicit consent to the forum.  It is a violation of the TOS.

No, not true, I am the buyer and I am buying to help these artists grow yet RO is putting sticks in the wheels of these people. But keep this thread in mind cause when this discussion will get going a bit further I will then show you the real reason why her product was put off.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=67872&vendor=49864

For instance, here is a link to my own product here in the MP.  Yes, it's for v4.  It's been out since October.  Anyway, My front page doesn't show nudity, but, toward the bottom, you'll see a little thumbnail.

That thumbnail leads to the full-body preview image that shows the skin.  In order to get that thumbnail, I have to make sure to select the content advisory for my product, meaning that there will be nudity in one of the 3 extra images.

I don't know if that's the case with this product, but, as you've already been told, we don't, and have never, discussed anything about a member's account with a third party, so we're not going to start now.

Jeni

Sorry, but I do not agree with the original poster or many of the other people on here.

Even an art gallery, that exists to display art, has the right to refuse, and does so, any art it does not think is up to standard, or not in it's clients style, pocket or perceived taste.

Just because something is art doesn't guarantee it a right to be displayed or made available.

All art galleries, 3D websites, or any other place that sells art is still a business, and it's interests are to survive, make money, pay it's costs, and gain a larger market. Whatever that institution thinks will get it these goals are up to that institution to decide, not on the artists who would like to display their art there.

Do yourself a favour and make an artowrk, go down to your local art gallery/art shop, and demand that they display your artwork for sale there, and see what kind of a response you get.

Helgard

Well, this is Renderosity's site, store, server and bandwidth we're talking about.  They reserve the right to refuse anyone anything.  At least, that should be the way their policies read.

As far as the product in question, I did see it listed on another site.  I looked at it.  I believe I was looking at the correct product.

Here's some constructive criticism.  I mean this is the best spirit possible in regards to supporting an artist in a competitive market. 

What can I say?  It's "another character."  I'm not trying to be harsh but you have to look at it from the point of view of a marketer and, more importantly, a consumer.  What about this is unique?  What does this package offer that can not be obtained in other packages?  The only thing unique appears to be some tattoos, if I'm looking at the right product.  The rest of it is "Someone else has already done it" type of material.  That's not always a bad thing.  Some users might like having several variations on a very similar theme.  But, does this give even rabid fans of this type of character anything unique?  Is there anything here even they would want?  Are there any morphs that aren't dialspins?  Unique textures?  Hair?  Clothing?  Accessories?  The only thing unique offered are some tattoos, maybe the ear morphs (depending on how they were done) lights (which are a dime a dozen unless you're talking about IBL/HDRI/Gels or very, very high quality arrangements etc.) and expressions (which may or may not be unique).  )Makeup, base texture, etc doesn't seem very "unique" for this product.

It may be the culmination of years of active learning and experience.  It may be the pinnacle of an artist's achievements.  But, if it isn't unique, doesn't offer something of value over and above what is already available in the market, nobody is going to buy it.  They'll look at it and say "That's neat" and click on down the line of "What's new."

My suggestions, in general,  would be this:

1)  Mesh is king.  Whether it is a totally original mesh or a hand-done morph that isn't a dialspin, Mesh is king, always.  With that in mind, anything that is a unique mesh or contains one increases the overall value.  If it is something other than a mesh or a morph that is done by hand without relying on dialspins, then it must offer something unique or be of the best recognizable quality possible.  I used "recognizable" in that statement because it may actually be the best thing since sliced bread but if nobody can tell that from the presentation of the advertisement, they won't "recognize" it as such.  But, it's worth repeating: Mesh is king.  If it isn't mesh, then it had best demonstratably stand out amongst the legions of competing products in its category. (Textures, dialspins, lights, expressions, poses, materials, etc..)

1. Textures are great.  But, at some point, there's a saturation limit where they no longer offer added value in a package.  Fifteen bajillion textures lend no more value to a package than three extra ones do. (IMO)  This applies to everything, characters ESPECIALLY.  You can use one texture at a time on one model at a time. (for most practical purposes)  After that, textures become sort of redundant and you end up with two textures that are actually used and a runtime full of stuff that never gets loaded, ever.

3) Added "bonuses" should really be bonuses or they're not worth mentioning as such.  That means unless they too have something very unique and desirable above and beyond what is offered, they're just part of the package.  A toothbrush that has listed a bonus of "Free Bristles Attached" isn't really saying anything.

4) Nothing in the presentation of the product at the market it is located seems to have much to say about the quality of the product other than the text describing it as a quality product.  I'm a stickler for renders, lit meshes and highlights of special features.  If the render is bad, the product is bad and that is regardless of what people have to say about "Let them see the default render in default lighting."  Sure, include that.  But, I want to see the bestest thing with the mostest bang for my buck I could get out of using this product.  (within reason and without cheating with unincluded special IBLs, shaders, etc..)  Otherwise, what is being said is "This is the worst this product will ever look."  I want to see the best it will ever look along with it's best features.  That's what sells products, IMO.

I am truly sorry your friend's product was not accepted.  I wouldn't mind selling some products on Renderosity myself one day.  So, I can sympathize.  But, me just posting "Gee, that's too bad.  I'm sorry their experience was a bad one." doesn't do the Artist any good, does it?  What I have said may anger someone but, it's the truth as I see it.  I would rather have them angry at some perceived insult from me and actively selling products they create because they acted on what I said rather than them not selling anything at all.

Quote - >> "And this is different from the releases of V1,2, and 3 exactly how?"

Not only has the number of users increased but so have the number of merchants -- exponentially, I would imagine. And everyone wants to ride that V4 train, particularly in a tough economy which makes everyone want to try and sell something.

Absolutely. I agree completely.  In a market where competition is increasing, you must do what the competitors are not and that must have a greater perceived value.  (In truth, it doesn't have to actually have more value.  It just must be "perceived" as having more.)

Quote - But what I also find somewhat worrisome is that the OP feels that Rosity should accept it because s/he's spent so much money here. 

/agree

Unless, of course, the member is offering a check made payable today for a thousand dollars as a promotion fee to Renderosity.  If so, they may want to consider such an offer...

Interesting.

What I definitely DON"T like is the attitude of "I spend a lot of money here, so I say what goes and what doesn't".
There's nothing wrong with suggesting something in the Marketplace Wishing Well forum - anyone can do that, regardless of spending habits. But there's definitely something wrong with trying to dictate to the store staff what to put in the store.

Maybe the store staff did make a wrong decision. That can happen, they're only human after all. But they'll have to sort that out with the vendor in question.

JenX, could you remove the name of the vendor from the original post? I feel that this thread does not reflect well on the vendor in question, even if he/she has nothing to do with this.

There's nothing wrong with supporting vendors, on the contrary. But we should do that the right way, or else it may backfire.

Morkonan: applause! You said it better than I ever could.

That's a good suggestion, svdl.  I've done so.

Quote - Morkonan: applause! You said it better than I ever could.

Thanks. :)  But, I bet you could have said it with less words.  I'm dreadfully verbose at times.  heh heh

I'm entirely in agreement with Helgard's post. Rendo is a business, and it has to make money to survive. Whether this was the right decision or not is only relevant in the context of the business. If they feel the product won't sell, then it's their right to decide not to include it in the marketplace.

As for whether it's right for Rendo to decide what we can or cannot buy, that happens all over. Amazon doesn't stock certain books because they can't come to a mutually satisfactory agreement with the book publisher. Too bad for the author (or potential purchaser), but that's life. Rendo and Amazon are not public services. Every other store does the same thing. If you can't buy something there it's because they've taken a conscious decision not to stock it. Why is Rendo any different?

There are dozens of stores on the web selling poser stuff, if rendo doesnt want it for whatever reason try elsewhere.  If you dont know any other stores drop me a pm and I will give you a list.

Just wanna say i thought when i became a member here that this was a art community with a store for the artist to sell there own made stuff .
It looks to me now that renderosity  is become only a shop to sell for some top vendors and 
forgotten the artist .
By saying this i don't want to attack the top vendors over here .

But what I also find somewhat worrisome is that the OP feels that Rosity should accept it because s/he's spent so much money here. ( **SeanMartin )

**I can understand your opinion in this but this is not what Bob says .
He is showing you som fact's that he is suppoting a group of artist by spending his money
over here at RO .

Perhaps RO should go back to there basic and support every member artist and not only
the ones who are top selling. 

>> " It looks to me now that renderosity  is become only a shop to sell for some top vendors"

Seriously, have you looked at how many vendors there are here? We're talkin' in the hundreds.

The Marketplace is just that, a Marketplace.  It is a storefront.   Renderosity, and every other Poserverse storefront, at the moment is FLOODED with samey-same V4 characters.  The response that the MP testers and admins give is that, at the moment, they just don't see it selling the way the market is right now.  Between a flood of the same old thing and the economy the way it is, you can't just expect everything to go in.  Even top sellers get things turned away.  I know.  I used to be a tester, and I did it all the time.

I stopped trying to sell here. Too many hoops to jump thru.

Quote - Just wanna say i thought when i became a member here that this was a art community with a store for the artist to sell there own made stuff .
It looks to me now that renderosity  is become only a shop to sell for some top vendors and 
forgotten the artist .

Perhaps RO should go back to there basic and support every member artist and not only
the ones who are top selling. 

Bollucks!! i have enjoyed 7 years of passive income from my marketplace products
and never once made the top 100 vendors list. and I have had products REJECTED before .
you understanding of the renderosity marketplace is problematic at best.

My opinion...selling 3d content is the low end of the CG world.  Tell your friend to develop a demo reel and look for a job.  Video gaming is the current trend.

This is super-basic economics.

The purpose of a retail sales outlet is to add value to the raw products,
so they can sell more units and sell for a higher price.

A store selects things to suit its own taste or theme, works with the supplier
to improve or reshape the product, and advertises.   Walmart does those
things, Renderosity does those things.

If you want to sell without this added value, you can run your own website.
Direct sales is much easier with digital products than it would be with, say, vegetables
or automobiles!

I wish the quality control aspect of product submission would focus on redundancy as well as quality.

For example, how many mini-skirts do we need for one character?  There are so many clothing items for V4, for example, that could've been done with transmaps for existing clothing. 

This would probably be hard to do, since the marketplace does not have a good search feature and the categories are broad.  How would the testers even know how many skirts there are when a search for "V4 Skirt" turns up 10,000 results 80% of which have nothing to do with V4 or skirts?

Sigh.

Quote

Bollucks!! i have enjoyed 7 years of passive income from my marketplace products
and never once made the top 100 vendors list. and I have had products REJECTED before .
you understanding of the renderosity marketplace is problematic at best.

Its not my understanding of the  renderosity marketplace tru .
But when i log in here at renderosity i see "its in the logo also" renderosity
art community and no renderosity 3d shop or market place .
I can understand that renderosity need money to stay alive but is this an art comminity or 
or has renderosity become a marketplace only which aim is to make big profit .

The thing is, frankly, this is the third artist I have heard from personally who has told me they are "Not wanted at renderosity" for their characters...
Yet at the same time we have other artists who put up several items per week, or two or three characters a month.

To me it looks like the RMP Staff are picking favorites - or established sellers with high prices and high margins - over newcomers and merchants with less-expensive products, in part to protect those favorites.

Not that this isn't a standard business practice - how many books get denied for being too much like Glenn Cook's or Stephen King's - while the books of those two authors go directly into expensive hardcover editions first? 

That being said. the rejection to the prospective merchant must be crushing - especially if their product is as good as others' products already in the marketplace.   And while Renderosity is not the only marketplace for Poser, it is one of the two most prominent and prestigious.  

Still, this 'picking of the already popular' may be why R'osity is getting fewer and fewer of my poser dollars, as I go elsewhere to follow MY favorite creators, rather than THEIRS.

Ok, I'm going to step in here.
Now, currently, the only thing I have to do with the MP here is that I have one product in it.  Other than that, I have nothing to do with anything that goes in or their policies.

That being said...

How do you think Renderosity would be able to pay for the server space, bandwidth, even the electricity to run this site right now without the MP?  The Poser gallery alone exceeds 50 uploads a day.  The forum is bustling.   Not to mention the fact that Renderosity is housed in a building, where rent needs to be paid, and employees at their physical site are paid.  The aim isn't to make a profit.  The aim is to keep Renderosity from going out of business.

You don't like that your product wasn't accepted here or was clearanced out?  There are no rules saying that you can't also sell elsewhere.  There are also no rules ANYWHERE stating that just because you made a purchase, Renderosity has to also, in turn, accept your products.  Try taking that argument to DAZ.  RDNA.  3DArena.  (Those are the only places where, I, personally, am aware of QA policies...feel free to add more to the list, since there are MP's I haven't even heard of out there)  I've had SEVERAL products rejected at DAZ.  I know many folk who sell here who are top sellers have had their products rejected elsewhere.  And I know many quality sellers who aren't in the top sellers list. 

Welcome to the real world, where in order for a store to take your stuff, they have to want it.

Quote - The thing is, frankly, this is the third artist I have heard from personally who has told me they are "Not wanted at renderosity" for their characters...
Yet at the same time we have other artists who put up several items per week, or two or three characters a month.

To me it looks like the RMP Staff are picking favorites - or established sellers with high prices and high margins - over newcomers and merchants with less-expensive products, in part to protect those favorites.

Not that this isn't a standard business practice - how many books get denied for being too much like Glenn Cook's or Stephen King's - while the books of those two authors go directly into expensive hardcover editions first? 

That being said. the rejection to the prospective merchant must be crushing - especially if their product is as good as others' products already in the marketplace.   And while Renderosity is not the only marketplace for Poser, it is one of the two most prominent and prestigious.  

Still, this 'picking of the already popular' may be why R'osity is getting fewer and fewer of my poser dollars, as I go elsewhere to follow MY favorite creators, rather than THEIRS.

I'm sorry, but I've heard this argument too many times for it to be true all the time.  I've seen several people who say that they've been denied at Rendo and that their product is just as good as XYZ in the MP...and then look at it...and I can tell which Merchant Resource they used, right off the bat.  They didn't even bother to change anything.   The makeups are all out of one resource kit, and they all look the exact same as what's in the package.   The purpose of Merchant Resource kits are a base, not to be the whole product.  And that's exactly what I tell them when they ask my opinion.  Not everyone likes to be told that their product is not worth the MP, but, seriously, if Merchant Resource kits are listed, and no photography packs are (Levius, Skinjob, etc.), I pass it over.  And so do most buyers.

Quote - I can understand that renderosity need money to stay alive but is this an art comminity or 
or has renderosity become a marketplace only which aim is to make big profit .

Renderosity is owned by Bondware, which is a profit-making organisation and therefore it seems reasonable to expect that rendo will also have to return a profit - not just cover its costs. So rendo is in fact a business which as part of its added-value to build up its customer base also offers such facilities as forums, galleries, etc. But it's still a business.

Whether it started out that way I don't know - haven't been here long enough - but now it's a profit-making business. The community aspect is emphasised to attract new customers and keep them here in the hope that they'll buy something. Which they do.

I have one single set for sale, at DAZ, part of a collaboration package.
My first commercial item ever. It got accepted very quickly. Why? Simple. Catering to the mood in the market (well, one of my business did that. His business acumen is far greater than mine). High quality, and not submitting until I was pretty sure the item was meeting or exceeding quality standards.
QA found only a few little things that I had overlooked, and those were quickly fixed. In fact, they told me that the package was unusually well made for something entering the first testing rounds.

THAT's what gets your items in a store. High quality, originality and uniqueness.
Not only did my stuff get into the DAZ store, the pack it is a part of did rather well too. It ended up being one of the 2008 top sellers at DAZ. Not bad for a newbie merchant, eh?

I'll be making more commercial items. I'll do my best to make them as original as possible, to make them as high quality as I can, and they won't be submitted anywhere until I'm pretty sure there are no flaws left.
I fully expect that a QA team will find things that I overlooked.
I fully expect that a package might be rejected for commercial reasons. So what? I'll just shelve it until the market for that kind of item is better.

Want to make a nice buck as a merchant? Then you just have to work for it. Make things that customers want. Make things that others do not make. And most of all, make high quality stuff.

I'm a customer too. And I only buy things that I can't make myself AND that I can use over and over again.
If there was more strand-based hair at the store, I'd buy.
If there were more high-quality environment sets at the store, I'd buy.
But the umpteenth V4 dial-spun character with a standard skin texture map, and 20 flood-filled lip and nail colors? No thanks, I'll pass.

 OK.. hm.

Rosity IS playing favourites IMO. The whole Top Merchant thing is their favourites. Do I like it? No. Doi I accept it? Yes. Do I want to be a top merchant myself? OF COURSE - but it's not likely with the kind of products I make. I'm not catering for the boobie crowd and I'm not making skimpy outfits for the Vicki of the Week.

OTOH that is probably why my products so far has been accepted without problems. 

So what I'm saying is, like several has already said here - BE UNIQUE. You may not make a super seller - but there are things that has hit the roof here where I wouldn't have thought it would sell at all, so what do I know? After all my bestselling item is a dirty loo...

Another thing is.. what Spedler said. OF COURSE Rosity, and Bondwar is aiming to make a profit. It's not an altruistic organization. I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to get and accept. They're kind enough to keep their forum here for us to play in, but they didn't HAVE TO! NOR did they have to make a gallery here for us to upload terabyte after terabyte of pictures in. I'm happy that they DO. And if they need a marketplace to fund this, then so be it.

Mm.. and then.. I can't help speculating if parlevliet is someone's sockpuppet. Member since 2003 and both posts ever made in this thread?! I know some are lurkers more than posters.. but... oh well... Not my business I guess.

Quote - Ok, I'm going to step in here.
Now, currently, the only thing I have to do with the MP here is that I have one product in it.  Other than that, I have nothing to do with anything that goes in or their policies.

That being said...

How do you think Renderosity would be able to pay for the server space, bandwidth, even the electricity to run this site right now without the MP?  The Poser gallery alone exceeds 50 uploads a day.  The forum is bustling.   Not to mention the fact that Renderosity is housed in a building, where rent needs to be paid, and employees at their physical site are paid.  The aim isn't to make a profit.  The aim is to keep Renderosity from going out of business.

I alluded to that in my post but would like to expand upon it.  Just my two coppers...

Renderosity DOES want to provide a venue for artists to sell their wares. HOWEVER, what exactly do they have to do in order to provide that "service" for vendors?  They have to host the products, they have to pay for the bandwidth that a store browser may use up clicking on that product's link, they have to be able to support that product, they have to set it up in the marketplace and they may even have to set up a new vendor account, get that squared away, verify the info, etc...  All of that is before the product even sells one copy.  For all of that, they then must make enough off of sales to justify those expenses and still have some left over for operations and, gasp, a little bit of profit if they can fit it in.

Of course, there's also the fact that once it is in the store, it's going to sit around like luggage for however long Rendo's policy is on hosting products.  So, everytime they accept a product it's a "hundred year child" in a sense.  Rendo's runtime is constantly bloated and they're going to be forced to keep it online just in hope that it will sell a few copies and pay for itself.  Otherwise, it's an opportunity cost they'll never recoup. 

Quote - Welcome to the real world, where in order for a store to take your stuff, they have to want it.

I saw the product.  I'm not sure if you did or not.  It's pretty obvious why it was not desired.  The "resources used" list was almost as long as the contents list.  There were 32 line item entries in Third party packages used in the creation of the product.

I can play "Paper Dollie" too.  But, as you suggested, I am not sure how many times Renderosity is going to want to sell repacks of other Artist's work.

Quote -  OK.. hm.

Rosity IS playing favourites IMO. The whole Top Merchant thing is their favourites. Do I like it? No. Doi I accept it? Yes. Do I want to be a top merchant myself? OF COURSE - but it's not likely with the kind of products I make. I'm not catering for the boobie crowd and I'm not making skimpy outfits for the Vicki of the Week.

OTOH that is probably why my products so far has been accepted without problems.

Exactly so.  In regards to "Favorites" I would agree but with a condition:
In business, you naturally pay attention to proven performers and are a little bit hesitant when it comes to "something new."  Of course, any port is suitable in a storm and if you're desperate or sufficiently motivated, you may turn to finding a new supplier or new vendor.  But, proven producers are valuable and, in this case, the customers recognize the Artist's names and associate them with, usually, good experiences.  An artist's name WILL sell a product by itself. For instance, I have no hesitation about purchasing an Aery Soul product, if I needed one.  The same goes with most of the top sellers.  (There are some I would hesitate on simply because I feel they're a bit overhyped and quality is mostly implied, not realized.)  For what it's worth, considering what I have of your really neat freebies, I'd not hesitate to buy one of your products as well should I need it.  I have no worries about quality because I have a prior good experience.  :)

Quote - So what I'm saying is, like several has already said here - BE UNIQUE. You may not make a super seller - but there are things that has hit the roof here where I wouldn't have thought it would sell at all, so what do I know? After all my bestselling item is a dirty loo...

ROFL  Really?  Well, I've seen it and I thought it was excellent work.  But, I have no need for it so didn't buy it.  However, you're absolutely right!  Be unique!  You have managed to corner the market on dirty loos...  If there is ever a rush on them, you're in a great position!  :)  (You've obeyed the primary rule - Be unique!  That's nothing to be snickered at in a highly competitive market!)

I have had my share of refusals but after the initial throwing the mouse at the wall and the keyboard at the dog. I decide which way to go with it there are a few choices.

First I consider why it was rejected. Are they valid reasons? a lot of the time they are in which case it might be worth spending some more time on it and trying again.

If I feel that I have spent too much time on it already I will probably try some where else. Its worth pointing out that although the broker may be a business most Vendors are a business in their own right as well. Maybe just a hobby/business but a business non the less, in this case I try else where especially  If I don't see any advantage to selling an item at a particular store. Some have high intitial sales and low residuals, I find Rendo has steady residual sales which in many respects is more important than a lot of sales for a month and then the odd few.

Lastly if I realise I really have made a mess of it then I will shelve the item and call it tuition fees.

In any event I always try and take away something positive if not for that item for future items and hopefully improve  my skills. It would not do if the brokers just took everything because the buyer would soon become frustrated with low quality products. There was a time when some products were so bad It was almost entertaining. Thankfully that is rarely the case now.

My suggestion to the new vendor is first and formost enjoy what you do. You are very unlikely to make a living out of it, very few do. Secondly be realistic as much as it hurts we don't always get it right. Thirdly use the rejection positively if not for that item for you future products.  And lastly remember keyboards and mice are cheap monitors and vet bills are not ;)

Well, when the shit hits the fan, a loo - dirty or not - might come in handy...

I feel very sorry for the Vendor who's product was rejected..
The one thing I hope for sure is that the critics were well substantiated so this vendor will be able to make changes on the product so it would sell for sure in MP.

I personnally think some Vendors get a preferential treatment for sure.
I don't like the idea, but for RO... whether it sells well or not, it's your playground.

Most of the time I'm getting so bored with all the same textures offered on every piece off clothing you can find over here, but......made by a favorit Vendor.
And it gets on and on...... it even sells, time after time.......buyers prove they want it.
It's up to me to decide whether I'd buy it or not.
I'm also not happy with all the poses, V4-chars, animals, lightings and badlooking clothes that are being offered in MP by the big Vendors as well as by the newbies. For sure I look for something I think is special in my Runtime and not unimportant, which I can afford.

Why not a forum of potential buyers so they can vote for a product to end up in MP, let's say 1 product every week (which was rejected before)? Ofcourse, it's RO's store, RO's decisions....but why not? I would love having that opportunity.

BTW we all have our reasons to comment on a thread, why such a sneer to people who comment only once in a while, or even for the first time? We all decide when, where and how we will participate by ourselves.

I hope the rejected Vendor will keep the spirit up and will make new items to sell!

Grtz Emmy

Merchant resource kits are cheats!

They are actually pretty useful, if you use them for what they're intended.   A starting point, not an end product.  I use them to show me where little bits and bobs on a texture map should go, rather than pulling a texture map from a product I've purchased.  I do that for 2 reasons; 1. to learn, and 2. to keep me out of copyright trouble should the need arise to question where I got what.  I've had some photo resource packs that I've purchased that are missing one thing or another (some of them don't include elbows or have the nipple or genitals covered), I've used a resource kit to fill in the blanks.  That's just what I do, so, YMMV.

Quote - Merchant resource kits are cheats!

I agree and disagree with that.

Use properly, they're excellent tools at helping an artist express themselves or create a really interesting and unique product.  But, if they're used as a crutch, they're a serious detriment and say virtually nothing about the producer's artistic merit and lend little to no unique value whatsoever to the product.

Changing a contrast setting is NOT creating "ART" our of a resource kit or adding significant value or uniqueness to it when used in another product.  The general idea I have on the subject is that if just "anyone" could take a Merchant Resource kit that I used and then easily do the same thing I did with it then I am doing something wrong and shouldn't expect anyone to buy my product.  (If I actually had something for sale, that is.)

Everyone should remember that when they are producing items, what they are trying to do is to give people new tools to express themselves and play with.  Sometimes, those tools can have artistic merit all by themselves.  Yet, they are NOT creating Art that people are supposed to worship and hang on their wall.  They're creating new and unique tools for OTHER people to use in their OWN artistic expressions.  Of course, there's the whole "Play" value as well.  If it's fun to play with ... like a huge howitzerblowuptank with ginormous treads piloted by giant sharks with lazers on their heads OMGZ! ... then, that's cool too. :)  After all, Poser is sometimes like Legos or Erector Sets for Adults - you don't care about "Art" you just want to have some fun!

BTW Anyone want to see a really fast way to texture?  Faster than merchant resource kits and you don't have to worry about seams.

Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them).  Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves.  THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.

It looks that my question is answered renderosity is not a art community but a
marketplace.
Do i have a problem with that  no.
I never said that they are not to make profit.
Yes i can understand that its not an altruistic organization i never said it was.
But they call them selve an art community but perhaps iam wrong at this point ?
And yes its nice that they provide us with a forum and gallery i never said it wasn't.
But its verry odd that one vendor hears that the market place is fed up with V4
characters and when you push the whats new button you see new V4 characters.
How can you know if a product is selling or not if you don't bring it out on the 
marketplace ?
And yes you can not sell everything but you can be honest to the vendor why you
don't want it on the marketplace.

TrekkieGrrrl

Mm.. and then.. I can't help speculating if parlevliet is someone's sockpuppet. Member since 2003 and both posts ever made in this thread?! I know some are lurkers more than posters.. but... oh well... Not my business I guess.

You can say that again "Not my business" and you don't have to guess that .
There are more members here that never respons at the forum until somthing
is discussed that's interest them and iam certain that they don't wanna be called
sockpuppet.
Reading your respons it seems you have a lack of words or you don't like people to join
this forum becaus they never did before but thats up to you perhaps thats your mentality ?
 

*Merchant resource kits are the one thing I'd love to see Renderosity and Daz ban (along with anything made from them).  Every texture sold here and at Daz should be required to be created from photos the merchants took themselves.  THAT would help to ensure quality and a uniqueness to each texture set that would make it worth being placed for sale.

With the low cost of good digital cameras today, there's no excuse not to raise the standards.*

I agree,  although I have seen some hand painted textures that rivaled photos.

Renderosity isn't the community.  It's members make the community, not the site. 

Renderosity isn't the community.  It's members make the community, not the site. 

You're right on!

Now...the rejection issue.  If you are going to work in the 3d field or art in general get used to it.  Specially if you start bidding work.

If you're going to work in a creative capacity, period, get used to rejection.  I've been pitching my paintings to art galleries for 10 years.  I just got one piece accepted to a "starving artists" showing, which will be next month.  You take what you can get.