Thanks in advance.

Laurie

well, first you need to find out what format the program outputs (reminds me of the kurrtz-furnhout programs), in...obj, 3ds, etc. If it's a proprietary format, you'll have to contact the original makers.

If you're just having color problems, what it probably needs is UVMapping and texturing. It's over my head, something that complex, but I'm sure someone around here could do it.

No, I'm sorry, it's a wavefront obj. Usually if the normals are all fudged up on a prop, checking normals forward in the materials almost always fixed it. Not with this.

The program isn't PlantStudio ;o), it's Bantam3D Twig.

It exports natively in obj format, but aparently the normals are a different story :o(. I'm sure this is a normals problem. Either that, or there are empty faces in it. I'm not sophisitcated enough to know what it is or how to fix it...sigh.

BTW, all my lights are white, so it's not that either. It seems that this color especially kicks up that strong green, but other shaders not so much. A shader thing maybe? There are no colors in this shader tho that even approach green, except maybe the yellow. And the yellow is pure yellow.

Laurie

Laurie

Those green spots look to me like the sepals showing through the
spaces between the petals.    Maybe try hiding the sepals, if they're
a separate group, and see if the background shows in those same spots?

Edit: in other words, it looks like an effect you might see in the real flower
if there aren't a lot of petals....

Quote - Those green spots look to me like the sepals showing through the
spaces between the petals.    Maybe try hiding the sepals, if they're
a separate group, and see if the background shows in those same spots?

Edit: in other words, it looks like an effect you might see in the real flower
if there aren't a lot of petals....

LOL...That was the first thing I tried. I made those transparent and I get the same thing.

Laurie

Ya know, I even went the extra mile and opened the original object in UV Mapper Pro and made sure the material assignments weren't all screwed up, and while I did make a few mistakes and corrected them, the model imports back into Poser the exact same way. Like the backfaces just wanna be green or something. I know that some of the normals in each group are inverted and some aren't. How do I go in and 1: find out which face's normal is inverted and 2: how do I invert the normals on just those faces? I don't own any expensive modeling programs: I have Wings3D on my machine, Anim8tor and a trial version of MilkShape that's about to expire (and I don't remember seeing any way to flip a selected normal there). There is a face front command, but the petals are so dense I don't know if I could select a face even if I COULD see it...LOL. If I flip the normals on import into Poser it still flips the badly aligned normals...LOL. So I just have green on the TOP of the flower then....LOL.

Laurie

could you send me an example ?   marks542004@yahoo.com
 
I may have a fix , if its simply reversed normals.  It may be to do with transparency of backfacing polys. 

I dont think  wings lets you flip single polygons. 

Quote - could you send me an example ?   marks542004@yahoo.com
 
I may have a fix , if its simply reversed normals.  It may be to do with transparency of backfacing polys. 

I dont think  wings lets you flip single polygons. 

Coming your way....give me but a couple minutes.

Thanks!

Attached Link: Rose

Laurie

See if wings can select back facing polys (normals), if it can...can you turn that off? If you can turn it off then try and select the poly from the side you want it to show from, if you can't select it then it's reversed. Get it?

It can SHOW backfacing polys and you can select them but you can't invert them unless you change to body mode which inverts the whole section, causing the same problem in reverse. I can try Blender, but whenever I open it, I run the other way...LOL. I get lost immediately.

I just don't  know enough about modeling to fix this I think. Actually, what I know about modeling would fit at the bottom of a thimble ;o).Thanks for all the help thus far ;o)

Laurie

If there was a modeling program that worked like Poser's magnets that you could pull and twist and curl and whatnot...THAT I could understand....LOL. I can create models from Poser's primitives. I understand splines for the most part and I get booleans. Everything else, not.

I hate to admit it, but I liked Raydream. I understood most of it and it wasn't too complicated...hehe.

Laurie

UV Mapper Pro can invert selected polys, you just have to know which ones you want to invert before hand.

Quote - UV Mapper Pro can invert selected polys, you just have to know which ones you want to invert before hand.

Therein lies the rub ;o). I don't know which ones, because UVMapper Pro can't highlight them. Actually, it can show you the directon of the normals, but only if you view the model. Finding them on the map is nigh to impossible.

Laurie

Yup. What you need to do is do this in your modeling program. Sorry I can't help more.

Best Of Luck!

Have you tried with Rhino4???, there you can explode ANY mesh to its base blocks if they are grouped... I'll give a try and post what I find...

I don't have Rhino. If you have any luck, I'd appreciate it ;o).

Laurie

Second...those things in the center will need to either be bent down so Poser's normals forward will work or cut and paste 'em, then off set 'em 500 um and flip 'em.

Thanks patorak! I can get rid of the things in the center, but the two point poly's? How do I know which to keep and which to trash? And how do I even see them? LOL. I'll give it the old college try tho ;o).

Laurie

The components are all named , so you should be able to select by surface in uv mapper and flip them .

Quote - Final render, 3 lights , two with no-shadows , shadow light in front and above.
I dont see a problem that I would object too in this render
This is the aarose model.

Wow, pretty. I don't have Lightwave tho ;o). What program can I use to get the normals in the right direction...UVMapper won't do it, I've tried. Before I made the model groups and material groups in it, I tried flipping each piece, but it still didn't flip them the right way. Wings won't do it correctly either because I tried in there as well. Maybe I'll go back to the original (which had a boatload of parts) and take it into Wings and try it. I've never worked so hard for something that's gonna be a freebie before, and I'm sure you haven't either guys...LOLOL.

Any way to make it so that the normal face out BOTH sides? Not unless it's a two sided poly I gu ess, huh?

Thanks for all the help folks...I really appreciate it. I'm learning so many new things :o). Of course that's not to say that I can fix it still...hehe...but I'll try.

Laurie

Quote - Final render, 3 lights , two with no-shadows , shadow light in front and above.
I dont see a problem that I would object too in this render
This is the aarose model.

I didn't either for most of the colors...until I got to the peace rose mat. Then I realized how screwed up the normals really were.

Laurie

I looked at it with Amapi and basically think the same as Markschum.  There are
so many different parts that Poser may be simply overwhelmed.

The different parts are subgroups, so a renderer that can treat them separately may
be better able to handle them.  In Poser, the subgroups are all mixed together into
three or four basic groups, and the 'petals' group has about 60 subgroups, all
overlapping and facing different ways.   I didn't see any inconsistencies *within
*the subgroups, but I'm not surprised that the renderer has trouble deciding how
to handle those super-complicated surfaces.

Thats a Poser render, it may help to turn off  shadows for the rose, the thing is shadowing itself , which can look very nice but also makes it look bad in some light setups.

The pic is a render in poser, center is the aarose , right one is rose with shadows off , left one is rose with normals reversed for petals, rosehip and leaves . The leaves and rosehip stand out better  but the petals are a disaster   :(

Nomals forward on the material will do the same thing for leaves and rosehip.

Model is attached for you to look at.

Well, I'll pull the original file into Poser and see what happens :o).

Laurie

well.. after givin' it a Rhino pass I've seen that ALL normals are in the right way...
I've loaded the aarose model into poser ans also have that problem, i give no mat to the rose and still ALL the back sides were black, when rendered with no shadows it looks right.
Just in sake of completion I have a try in Daz Studio(3) and have no problem, it looked right in preview ans in render so I think it have something to do with the way Poser handle bakfacing polys...maybe if you separate the petal mat group in let's name it "layers" like "petals1... petalsn"
it might help. If you want I can send you the file with subgroups made...

hope that helps(someway...)

Import the object into Blender.

With the mouse in the 3D viewport press Numpad1 then Numpad . (decimal)

RMB the rose and press TAB

Press CTRL>N

click OKAY

press the A key

Goto the links and materials pane

Under the materials section cycle through the choices until you have petals current ( 6 mat 3)

Press select to select only the petals

press W>0 (numpad or keyboard)

hover cursor at top edge of 3d window when the cursor turns into a bi-directional arrow RMB and choose split

set one of the windows to UV Editor by selecting it from the drop down list at the lower left corner of the window

place cursor in 3D viewport and press the A key  all the verts should now be yellow

press U>1

in the UV Editor panel select UVs>scripts> save UV face layout follow the prompts

export the normal corrected UV mapped object

Quote - Import the object into Blender.

With the mouse in the 3D viewport press Numpad1 then Numpad . (decimal)

RMB the rose and press TAB

Press CTRL>N

click OKAY

press the A key

Goto the links and materials pane

Under the materials section cycle through the choices until you have petals current ( 6 mat 3)

Press select to select only the petals

press W>0 (numpad or keyboard)

hover cursor at top edge of 3d window when the cursor turns into a bi-directional arrow RMB and choose split

set one of the windows to UV Editor by selecting it from the drop down list at the lower left corner of the window

place cursor in 3D viewport and press the A key  all the verts should now be yellow

press U>1

in the UV Editor panel select UVs>scripts> save UV face layout follow the prompts

export the normal corrected UV mapped object

Thanks!!! Blender scares me to death, but I'll give a shot since you gave such concise directions ;o). Wish me luck....Blender is like entering the gates of Hades! LOL.

Laurie

One thing you may want to do that I left out is to scale down the UV layout slightly.

Before saving the UV face layout place the cursor in the UV Editor window.

press the A key to select all the verts of the layout

press the S key and enter .95

This will scale the entire UV layout down to 95% of the original and give you some space around the edges of the UV Map when you save it. Just makes it easier to work with the map in an image editor.

Now with the auto unwrap the various UV islands are placed randomly where the program finds space. There is a way to find out locations on the model for the polys but it's a little tricky so we'll leave that alone for the moment unless you want to learn right now.

Anytime you have a Blender question send me a site mail and I'll answer or point you to someone that can.

Fantastic!! I just MAY have blender question down the road. For the type of modeling I'd like to do, I may as well learn it and nothing else. I know that once you learn it it's very powerful, but coming from someone who has NO modeling training or experience it's a little daunting ;o). I can barely tell a facet from a vertex...LOL.

Laurie

Being new to modeling will probably be beneficial since you won't be bringing any baggage along and you'll be able to focus on how Blender works, not on how some other program operates.

Learning your hot keys is a big help with Blender. When I started  I printed off the list of hotkeys and taped it up beside my monitor for reference.

Another thing is to relax and not worry about how hard you've heard Blender is to learn. Being nervous makes it more difficult retain information.

Keep in mind while you are trying to figure something out in Blender (or any other 3D application) that it's for fun, if it doesn't work you can try again, nothing is going to explode or burst into flames.:laugh:

On the subject of Blender's difficulty, any high end 3D application has a steep learning curve. It always amazes me when people that "use" ZBrush complain about the Blender UI......ZBrush has a horrible UI too and let's not even go into Lightwave.....complaints about hotkeys....3DMAX is full of them IF you want best efficiency.

Learning new software comes down to focusing on the task at hand, taking small steps and building a solid foundation in the basics before you try the more advanced bits. Go at your own pace and enjoy yourself.

Quote - Being new to modeling will probably be beneficial since you won't be bringing any baggage along and you'll be able to focus on how Blender works, not on how some other program operates.

Here's hoping! ;o)

Quote - Learning your hot keys is a big help with Blender. When I started  I printed off the list of hotkeys and taped it up beside my monitor for reference.

I've been a graphic artist for a looong time...lol. If I hadn't learned the shorcut keys to Photoshop and Quark, I'd have given up long ago...hehe. I used to have the shortcut keys to Quark and PS up on my monitor too!

Quote - Another thing is to relax and not worry about how hard you've heard Blender is to learn. Being nervous makes it more difficult retain information.

Keep in mind while you are trying to figure something out in Blender (or any other 3D application) that it's for fun, if it doesn't work you can try again, nothing is going to explode or burst into flames.:laugh:

It won't??! ;o) That's a load off my mind...LOL

You know I used to get mad at my oldest son when he was little, because he just HAD to to anything perfect the first time and if he couldn't he'd just give up. I guess he's a lot like his mother ;o). I've started trying to model and given up countless times. I've never stuck with it long enough to actually learn anything. Time to change my ways I guess.

Quote - On the subject of Blender's difficulty, any high end 3D application has a steep learning curve. It always amazes me when people that "use" ZBrush complain about the Blender UI......ZBrush has a horrible UI too and let's not even go into Lightwave.....complaints about hotkeys....3DMAX is full of them IF you want best efficiency.

That's very true. Photoshop was incredibly complicated to me when I first was trained to use it...and that was version 3! Now it's all second nature. It did take time to learn all the ins and outs and I guess it will with Blender too. Trouble is, I think in 2D, not 3D...hehe. THAT in itself will take some getting used to.

I get the same feeling when I open up Wings or Anim8tor or any modeling program as I do Blender. Lost. Only in Blender there's MORE of it! Heh.

Quote - Learning new software comes down to focusing on the task at hand, taking small steps and building a solid foundation in the basics before you try the more advanced bits. Go at your own pace and enjoy yourself.

You have to take a step before you can walk a mile I guess. Thanks for the help and encougagement. I wholeheartedly appreciate it!

Laurie

I'm working with this rose (finally), and color me stupid, but I'm not sure I know what you mean by "RMB the rose".

I was fine up until that part ;o).

Thanks.

Laurie

 Don't forget the Poser Materials Room.

I don't much like the colours they use for the display, but it works. Any tool can work better if the mesh is enlarged, Get the viewpoint too close in Poser, and the selection stops working.

There's a button for reversing normals, and you can select individual facets. You need to set up a temporary New Group, pick the facets you want to change, and reverse the normals. Then delete the group.

You can add a material to a New Group, and reverse the whole material, then deselect facets facing the correct way, and reverse normals again.

The general problem is that the file can contain specific normal data, which Poser ignores. Poser derives the normal from the order of the vertices in the file when the facet is defined, Two different rules, and sometimes different results.

Use the Right Mouse Button to select the rose.

(Dropped a word the orig was supposed to say "RMB select the rose and press TAB")

This symbol ">" indicates a sequence, do NOT insert the character in the command.

Quote -  Don't forget the Poser Materials Room.

I try valiantly though!:lol:

There is a lot of bad geometry in this model, I opened it in Wings, selected the whole thing and clicked "cleanup". This removes very short edges (less than .001 long) and isolated vertices.

The result was 315 faces, 588 edges and 273 vertices were removed.

After this my renders looked no different to the original model.

The problem appears to be poor construction of the rose with the petals intersecting each other in many places and with gaps where there should be petals deep inside the model.

Quote - Use the Right Mouse Button to select the rose.

(Dropped a word the orig was supposed to say "RMB select the rose and press TAB")

This symbol ">" indicates a sequence, do NOT insert the character in the command.

Gawd, that's right. You can color me stupid...LOL. Or very tired...hehe.

Thanks.

Laurie

I'll go with tired.

Quote - I'll go with tired.

I didn't sleep at all last night...lol (fairly normal for me). And just so you know, I knew what it was the first time you posted it, but my poorly addled brain just couldn't remember when I went to work on it again...snicker

Thank you :o)

Laurie