Quote -

what they should is that when you click '' apply to all''  that then it should delete  all old materials. not add to them. thats how get 300 nodes that are not even connected

That's true, but, since it doesn't, they give you a macro "Remove Detatched Nodes" to use. ;)

Interesting findings on V4, Paul.  I for one, always appreciate your thoroughness...

Quote - > Quote - I see the link to your Environment Sphere. Where did you get the "equirectangular image"?

I don't remember where I got that particular one, but there are over 12,000 on flickr.com.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=equirectangular

Just want to thank you for answering. You're right, I did confuse some terminology, mainly because I don't understand these issues all that well. I think I will poke about with the Environment Sphere, though.

Quote - > Quote - OK, I understand.  It's too bad though.  Be nice to have some sort of an option to apply materials to multiple nodes of the end users preference rather than one or all.... still seems a bit archaic to me with that sort of limitation!  

It's still not all that hard to change the material zones you want to change.  If certain figures didn't have eleventy-billion material zones, it wouldn't take as long (I'm lookin' at you, DAZ figures, LOL).  Just highlight the nodes (right click, select all) and paste the nodes (right click, paste), and it's done.  

Yea but say you want to apply just to the skin.  Leaving out the Inner Mouth, Teeth, Eyes all that.... ?  See what I mean??

Then don't apply them to the inner mouth, teeth, eyes.  My method doesn't include the "apply to all" method.  Sure, it takes a little bit longer in Poser to do it than in DS, but it's not like it's impossible to change the settings on just a few material zones.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - OK, I understand.  It's too bad though.  Be nice to have some sort of an option to apply materials to multiple nodes of the end users preference rather than one or all.... still seems a bit archaic to me with that sort of limitation!  

It's still not all that hard to change the material zones you want to change.  If certain figures didn't have eleventy-billion material zones, it wouldn't take as long (I'm lookin' at you, DAZ figures, LOL).  Just highlight the nodes (right click, select all) and paste the nodes (right click, paste), and it's done.  

Yea but say you want to apply just to the skin.  Leaving out the Inner Mouth, Teeth, Eyes all that.... ?  See what I mean??

This is one of the central ideas behind interactive VSS Pro - drag a material to a specific subset of selected materials, apply the shader, but preserve the images that are already there.
 
Now that I can make a GUI, I can make this a reality.

Quote - No there is no multi select.

One of the fundamental requirements with Poser 8 is to maintain backward compatibility with everything that has gone before. In particular, this applies to all Python scripts.

There is a big difference in the data model between having a "current actor" or "current figure" versus having potentially dozens of "current actors", potentially not on the same figure. This would break everything.

It's quite a bit of serious work re-writing the data model to accomodate multi-select.

I'd have to disagree, the data model could be extended with new methods.
The old methods would just need to return the first item in a multiple selection to be compatible with the old behaviour.

One important bit of info no one else has asked for is which versions of Python and wxWidgets are in P8.

Quote - Many trade-offs (buid this, not that, build now or later) had to be considered. Far more "good ideas" did not make the cut than did make the cut. Nobody on the team wants to do the wrong thing, i.e. leave a good idea on the table, but the realities of running a business drive the decisions. We can arm-chair quarterback these decisions all day, but I can tell you that juggling all these choices is a very difficult job.

Thanks, BB. I can live with that. It would be nice to see some of these features, but I don't mind waiting so much if I know they're being considered for a future version.

Multi-selection of both geometry and materials is a huge time-saver. People have mentioned DAZ figures having too many materials. Fine. I won't disagree with that. But you try building a large house or maybe one of stonemason's sets and see how many materials you end up with. (The more materials, the more options, remember). Sometimes, having a lot of materials is just unavoidable.

Poser is still a very human figure-centered program. I don't have a huge problem with that, but many of us don't deal in figures. I understand the Dev Team's priorities, and I'm not complaining. I just hope that in future versions we'll get some extra options like multi-select and camera framing.

mac

 Python developers might also enjoy the interactive shell with popup help.

Quote -

Sorry everyone for going on a tangent! At any rate, I enthusiastically agree that having Poser support Catmull-Clark subdivision like D|S and most modelers would be very useful.

Just to Sub D a quad is not good enuff.
Sence the model all quad rule is as brite as a dinosaur.
I want the model all quad rule as dead as the dinosaurs.

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm

Maybe Poser could talk to XSI :)

Quote - > Quote -

Sorry everyone for going on a tangent! At any rate, I enthusiastically agree that having Poser support Catmull-Clark subdivision like D|S and most modelers would be very useful.

Just to Sub D a quad is not good enuff.
Sence the model all quad rule is as brite as a dinosaur.
I want the model all quad rule as dead as the dinosaurs.

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm

Maybe Poser could talk to XSI :)

Is that a published subdivision method that anyone can implement in their software? Because I'd rather stick with original Catmull-Clark with all it's limitations than go to something that Wings will never have because of the license fees.

Quote - > Quote - No there is no multi select.

One of the fundamental requirements with Poser 8 is to maintain backward compatibility with everything that has gone before. In particular, this applies to all Python scripts.

There is a big difference in the data model between having a "current actor" or "current figure" versus having potentially dozens of "current actors", potentially not on the same figure. This would break everything.

It's quite a bit of serious work re-writing the data model to accomodate multi-select.

I'd have to disagree, the data model could be extended with new methods.
The old methods would just need to return the first item in a multiple selection to be compatible with the old behaviour.

---

One important bit of info no one else has asked for is which versions of Python and wxWidgets are in P8.

I agree there could be a new method called GetSelectedActors() and the old methods remain returning only one thing.

But it isn't just about Python plugins. The work involved in Poser itself would be a lot. The displays/pulldowns for Current Figure and Current Actor in all the rooms would have to be changed. Every operation (move, rotate, delete) would be affected. And what happens to the property/parameters when there are multiple items selected? Obviously there are answers to each of these problems, but taken together it is a major overhaul.

Thanks for the info Bill.  Understood.  Hope one of these days one of these owners will do a serious rewrite of the code then.  I keep hoping.  Eventually everything must be renewed, re-started from scratch and built back up!! 

Quote - Is that a published subdivision method that anyone can implement in their software? Because I'd rather stick with original Catmull-Clark with all it's limitations than go to something that Wings will never have because of the license fees.

Catmull-Clark subdivision isn't going anywhere, don't worry.  The problems with Rorrkon's model are a lot more due to terrible topology (no offense) than triangles anyhow.

In any case all that talk is a moot point; Poser's renderer (Reyes) does polygon smoothing at render time, albeit with a different mechanic and with different results.  EF/Smith Micro have never made noises that they want to provide subdivision as well, even though DAZ chose to.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

Sorry everyone for going on a tangent! At any rate, I enthusiastically agree that having Poser support Catmull-Clark subdivision like D|S and most modelers would be very useful.

Just to Sub D a quad is not good enuff.
Sence the model all quad rule is as brite as a dinosaur.
I want the model all quad rule as dead as the dinosaurs.

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm

Maybe Poser could talk to XSI :)

Is that a published subdivision method that anyone can implement in their software? Because I'd rather stick with original Catmull-Clark with all it's limitations than go to something that Wings will never have because of the license fees.

TS,LW,Modo,C4D,Maya,Max ,XSI,Wings,Blender you can model a 100% quad mesh and sub D 100% quads,Just like wings.
http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_Sub_D_Quads.htm
thay all haveCatmull-Clark or it's = this is technolagy that is very old 11+ years old at least.

• LW,Modo,Max.XSI u have a option for Tri's.
  http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm
  it is just a option you do not half to use.
  " If " poser had a sub D tri option and wings did not
  you could still model your mesh in wings with a few tri's and poser would be kool with it.

Quote - " If " poser had a sub D tri option and wings did not
you could still model your mesh in wings with a few tri's and poser would be kool with it.

If and when Poser starts supporting traditional Catmull-Clark, I'm happy to discuss adding those triangle extensions, okay?

Quote - Python 2.4, wxPython 2.8.9.

:thumbupboth:

Quote - Python developers might also enjoy the interactive shell with popup help.

Two more questions :-
Does threading work ?
Any changes to the events and callbacks (a yes or no will suffice) ?

Quote -

Catmull-Clark subdivision isn't going anywhere, don't worry.  The problems with Rorrkon's model are a lot more due to terrible topology (no offense) than triangles anyhow.

In any case all that talk is a moot point; Poser's renderer (Reyes) does polygon smoothing at render time, albeit with a different mechanic and with different results.  EF/Smith Micro have never made noises that they want to provide subdivision as well, even though DAZ chose to.

LOL, no offence taken.
I can model desent topolgy on a good day ;)
http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_Sub_D_Quads.htm
" ODF " mesh is killer , V4 is killer also but you can see all the hoops thay had to jumped threw to make them all quads.
But it realy is a lot faster, easier  to model a mesh with a few tri's in the mesh.
you don't half to jump threw all those hoops cause the app can't handle a tri.

Quote - Thanks for the info Bill.  Understood.  Hope one of these days one of these owners will do a serious rewrite of the code then.  I keep hoping.  Eventually everything must be renewed, re-started from scratch and built back up!! 

Uh, now you're interpreting a little too far. This was a serious rewrite. Here comes a difficult-to-parse double negative. It isn't fair to assume that not doing every conceivable thing under the sun is equivalent to doing very little work.

If this was a total rewrite then why did the leave out something that MIGHT bring more users back to the fold like multi select then?   ..... I guess they had their reasons.... Not really important, nothing to be done at this point anyway...

I didn't use the word total. I said "serious". So did you.

:)

Hi there, I was looking at the floating windows and I was wondering if there is a way to make it so there isn't the ig white boxes around it? That just distracts a lot from the image, etc. Thanks

Quote - Hi there, I was looking at the floating windows and I was wondering if there is a way to make it so there isn't the ig white boxes around it? That just distracts a lot from the image, etc. Thanks

I'm not aware of any way to get rid of the window frame on floating panels. That's not a terrible enhancement request, or maybe changing the color would be good enough.

Changing the color to something more neutral or even to match the background would be fine. Right now it is just very jarring.

You keep saying that Poser or whatever other apps can't handle triangles.  That isn't true, even the V4/M4 base mesh has a lot of triangles.  Any time you see a structure of polygons like the attached, that was a triangle that has been subdivided by Catmull-Clark (tons of these throughout V4/M4).  These aren't bad, per se; avoiding triangles is just a practice that is required in certain situations and has some other advantages .
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=25&t=508306&highlight=triangle

Quote - That isn't true, even the V4/M4 base mesh has a lot of triangles.

Where?

Quote - > Quote - That isn't true, even the V4/M4 base mesh has a lot of triangles.

Where?

He posted an image of that mesh. One page back, sixth post from the top, left side of the image. You clearly see the triangles, for example on the thigh.

My Antonia has no triangles in the base mesh, but I'm crazy like that.

But we should really take this topic elsewhere, since the thread is long enough. Either P8 has Catmull-Clark support or it doesn't. Since it's not mentioned in the feature list, I'd wager a guess that it's not implemented.

Oh ... he meant one of the LoD meshes.  My mistake.

Well no, I meant the base mesh that was subdivided to obtain the 68k "normal" version of V4 that is commonly used.  DAZ's use of the term "Level of Detail" is a bit at odds with the rest of the CG world.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - OK, I understand.  It's too bad though.  Be nice to have some sort of an option to apply materials to multiple nodes of the end users preference rather than one or all.... still seems a bit archaic to me with that sort of limitation!  

It's still not all that hard to change the material zones you want to change.  If certain figures didn't have eleventy-billion material zones, it wouldn't take as long (I'm lookin' at you, DAZ figures, LOL).  Just highlight the nodes (right click, select all) and paste the nodes (right click, paste), and it's done.  

Yea but say you want to apply just to the skin.  Leaving out the Inner Mouth, Teeth, Eyes all that.... ?  See what I mean??

This is one of the central ideas behind interactive VSS Pro - drag a material to a specific subset of selected materials, apply the shader, but preserve the images that are already there.
 
Now that I can make a GUI, I can make this a reality.

Well, I read the rest of the thread and, what??!? Am I the ONLY person more keen for VSS Pro than Poser 8?

I'm not going to bug you about target dates for release, Bill. Thanks for reassuring me (AT LEAST) that work is continuing on this incredible product. Between that and Matmatic, a workflow has been established that I am going to find very difficult to emulate in Daz Studio.

Quote - Changing the color to something more neutral or even to match the background would be fine. Right now it is just very jarring.

Yep, looks odd plus this improved interface takes much more space up than the old one. Not sure where the improvment is here ... looks like DS to me now and that's def not a selling point in my book. And this new library doesn't look very appealing to me either.  And then it's not even a 64bit app.

Some might think it's silly to make such a fuss about an interface but for me the interface is important and exactly that odd DS interface was what stopped me trying it any further. Looks like it's the same with future versions of Poser now.

Whatever, more money to put into new versions of VueInfinite.

 Well, I think it's kind of silly to make such a fuss over a change you haven't really seen yet. I believe the example shown is an extreme display to show how the floating palattes can be arranged.

If it's about the 64-bit thing, well, I believe that making Poser a 64 bit app would mean I couldn't use it, so if one of us has to lose out, better you than me. 8^)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - That isn't true, even the V4/M4 base mesh has a lot of triangles.

Where?

He posted an image of that mesh. One page back, sixth post from the top, left side of the image. You clearly see the triangles, for example on the thigh.

My Antonia has no triangles in the base mesh, but I'm crazy like that.

But we should really take this topic elsewhere, since the thread is long enough. Either P8 has Catmull-Clark support or it doesn't. Since it's not mentioned in the feature list, I'd wager a guess that it's not implemented.

Aww, I love it when you guys talk dirty!

I hope it's not too late or that this issue has been addressed already but I really would like it if Poser 8 did not apply texture filtering by default to everything and let us choose.   Please?

Quote - I hope it's not too late or that this issue has been addressed already but I really would like it if Poser 8 did not apply texture filtering by default to everything and let us choose.   Please?

I hope they don't.

texture filtering was vastly improved.... or rather changed completely between p6 and p7. If your having trouble with blurry images in P7 it is most likely because the shade rate is set too high.

Quote - If it's about the 64-bit thing, well, I believe that making Poser a 64 bit app would mean I couldn't use it, so if one of us has to lose out, better you than me. 8^)

LOL :P But Vue7i comes in 32 and 64bit and depending on your OS it automatically installs the right version. If it's possible with Vue why not with Poser? 

And regarding the interface - yes, you're right. Maybe I would have to see it and test it before I can finally make a judgement. I thought that they maybe will offer a trial or demo so I could test it before buying. But then I saw the conditions for the free Poser 7 trial on SMs website and decided that this is a path I don't want to follow. I have to give them my CC info before they let me download a demo or trial and this  trial download is actually a pending purchase that I have to cancel within 30 days. When I fall in a coma, get mad or travel back in time and can't cancel the trial I'd have to pay for a program that I actually only wanted to test.

Quote - LOL :P But Vue7i comes in 32 and 64bit and depending on your OS it automatically installs the right version. If it's possible with Vue why not with Poser? 

I'm sure it is, but this way they can get a lot of people to buy the same code base several times ;)

Oi, then it's clever marketing ... 

Quote - ... looks like DS to me now...

Yep - I thought the same thing - right down to the colors.

I mean, damn... I thought it was a mod of D|S when I first saw it. And if BB hadn't already mentioned using Adobe to build it, I'd have asked what version of Qt they did use...

Either way, I'm the opposite, really - props on making the interface less of a  Krause-inspired fantasy and more, well, useful (no offense intended, but that's how I feel about it).

Wow we may actually get to the fonts and colors of some of these tool pallets. That might be worth the price of admission. Cool Beans

Hmmmm,   I'm looking at the "Ralphing Scene", from the Poser 8 website,  and I see a little red splash of light near the Medlab sign and a little blue splash of light above the blue arrow and I begin to wonder  -  Is this the result of a clever artist adding a bit of post work or am I seeing something that is the result of a light emitting texture?...   just wondering..... 

Hmmmmm....

That was by carodan, and it is exactly what you describe - a light emitting texture.

He sent me that image before SM posted it and I was quite impressed.

cool,  thanks
 

Quote - That was by carodan, and it is exactly what you describe - a light emitting texture.

He sent me that image before SM posted it and I was quite impressed.

So poser8 you can have texture emitting light?

Indirect diffuse illumination uses the colors of nearby objects to determine an object's color. If nearby objects are lit, they contribute. If nearby objects are self-lit, they contribute.

Doesn't matter why something is bright red - if it is bright red, then nearby things will have some red in them.

Quote - In any case all that talk is a moot point; Poser's renderer (Reyes) does polygon smoothing at render time, albeit with a different mechanic and with different results.

If I'm understanding what you're referring to: "worse results" would be the more apt descriptor. I've always had bad luck with extensively morphed figures in Poser (parallel lines appearing anonymously); the same figures render perfectly in DS.

What exactly has to do with render subdivision?

 To produce more precise, better bending figure joints, Poser 8 introduces a new falloff zone capsule shape and permits the use of multiple falloff zones.

This suggests that some work has gone into the Setup Room.  I'd be surprised if they haven't fixed the bugs this time.

I wonder how this new capsule-shape falloff zone will perform in Daz Studio. 
 

V4 is killer also but you can see all the hoops thay had to jumped threw to make them all quads.

I don't think there were any hoops. When you freeze a subdivided model in Modo it becomes all quads, regardless of the cage topology.  

Quote - That was by carodan, and it is exactly what you describe - a light emitting texture.

He sent me that image before SM posted it and I was quite impressed.

you aint alone, I thought they were postworked in when I saw them, I am so jealous of the testers right now.