What's (roughly) the polygon count of a Poser model?
Let's say Simon or Victoria for example.

SimonG2 = 84,140 polygons*
Victoria4.2 = 66,024 polygons*

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

• per UVMapper Pro

Quote - SimonG2 = 84,140 polygons*
Victoria4.2 = 66,024 polygons*

Outch!
Thanks

PS where do you find the info?
How can you determine how many there are in a complete scene? (if possible)

UVMapper Pro will give you the poly count of a single model.  Not heard of any app to give a poly count for a whole scene, though. 

Ideal? around 25.000, the rest is mostly pollution.

or subdevided to hide modeling errors.

;-)

Ideal? around 25.000, the rest is mostly pollution.

or subdevided to hide modeling and or rigging errors.

;-)

Actually: Scripts!PrintInfo!PrintGeomStats will give you the polycount of all figures and actors in the scene from within Poser itself
 

Thanks.
But I suppose this high poly count helps in making those models look great.
@Vilters: Do you mean one could do as good with "only" 25.000?
I also suppose that's about the number rendered with the "remove backfacing polys" on.

Quote - Actually: Scripts!PrintInfo!PrintGeomStats will give you the polycount of all figures and actors in the scene from within Poser itself
 

Great info!

One reason for the high polycount is to make the mesh highly morphable. If you do not have enough polys to work with there is not much you can do. The low poly solution is to work with displacement maps, but that is less flexible.
It is a design choice.

That sounds like a very logical explaination to me.
That allows the models to still look very realistic even after important morphing.

The number of vertices and faces is listed in the first several lines of the model's .obj file...

Just extra data - this is an excerpt from a FaerieWylde discussion on how best to populate TinkerBell's Drive-In Cafe'. 

~~~ update to add poly count info for dolls ~~~
P2 Biz man Lo..............2,799 polygons
P2 Biz man...................9,993
P2 Casual man Lo........3,235
P2 casual man...........11,034
P2 default guy.............3,682
P3 nude woman........15,588
P4 Biz man Lo..............2,412
P4 biz man.................17,138
P4 Casual man Lo........2,266
P4 casual man............16,219
P4 nude woman.........16,380 (Posette)
P4 biz woman............17,002
P4 casual woman.......15,405
P5 Don.......................23,465
P6 James Casual........40,775
P7 Simon G2 Casual...84,140
DAZ Biz man.................7,501
M3 Lo.........................24,406
M3, A3........................74,510
V4..............................66,024
I suspect that V4 carries a greater memory burden in morph data than A3, and V4's materials are certainly more complex. And dolls with many mat zones will cost more RAM than similar dolls with few mat zones. But still, this list might be useful if anyone needs to populate a scene at minimal memory cost.

I would say that the P2 Lo-poly dolls give the most "bang for your bucks", with their low polygon counts and only a few material zones with simple materials. These are the choice for background crowd dolls.

The P4 Lo-poly dolls are lowest in poly count, but they are utterly horrid models, unusable in my opinion.

The standard res P4 dolls (Posette and Dork) would be my choice for midground dolls; excellent shape at 1/5 the poly count of Aiko 3.

 With very high poly count models, one can only morph in the Z direction.

With Lower Poly models it is easyer to morph in the X,Y,Z .

just try  to drop V'4's breasts for some 2-3". Just to make them at least" look" real. Good luck.

Some like black chocolate, some like white.

I morph a lot, and prefer the lower poly models over anything else.

Also, since "Smooth polygons" was introduced, (and it works very well BTW, that extra , ultra high poly count is actually no loner justified.
it is more a selling point than anything else.

What do you do with 500 poly's in the ears?? And then cover them with hair???

Posette, Judy, Low Res Alyson; they do not come better;

I don't always get good results with the smooth polygons feature... it often adds dark lines to my render.

Quote -  With very high poly count models, one can only morph in the Z direction.

With Lower Poly models it is easyer to morph in the X,Y,Z .

just try  to drop V'4's breasts for some 2-3". Just to make them at least" look" real. Good luck.

Some like black chocolate, some like white.

I morph a lot, and prefer the lower poly models over anything else.

Also, since "Smooth polygons" was introduced, (and it works very well BTW, that extra , ultra high poly count is actually no loner justified.
it is more a selling point than anything else.

What do you do with 500 poly's in the ears?? And then cover them with hair???

Posette, Judy, Low Res Alyson; they do not come better;

I m not going to argue, you all have good arguments.
I m just a newbie trying to understand things and educate myself.

Quote - With very high poly count models, one can only morph in the Z direction.

Really ? I can morph in all directions. 
In ZBrush, I'll subdivide the model even more to get smoother morphs before I drop the subd back again for export

I've also just noticed that smooth polygons doesn't smooth the shadows produced by an object.

what do you mean by not smoothing shadows?

Quote -
With very high poly count models, one can only morph in the Z direction.

that's not true.  not only do i own tons of morphs for "high" poly count models (not very high compared to pro meshes, but high for here), i've made several.  i had no problem whatsoever morphing in all 3 dimensions.  what tools are you using to make your morphs?

Quote - With Lower Poly models it is easyer to morph in the X,Y,Z .

also untrue for most.  lots of low poly models are not supported by morph artists because they are too low poly.   i know because i've requested some in the past.  i've also had problems myself morphing low poly figures.  in point of fact, if you don't have the polygons, you simply cannot make certain surface changes.  a single polygon can't bend in the middle, let alone bend in lots of different directions.  low poly count imposes a lot of restrictions on what you can do and how.

Quote - just try  to drop V'4's breasts for some 2-3". Just to make them at least" look" real. Good luck.

i've done this with no problem at all.  i use Posermatic's NGM for V4 which achieves much more realistic results than my own with no problem at all.  i haven't used Posermatic's NBS for V4, but i have for V3, which is an even more high poly mesh, and it works beautifully.  and i've just recently seen a very realistic breast morph in the gallery of one of the artists i follow

Quote - Some like black chocolate, some like white.

I morph a lot, and prefer the lower poly models over anything else.

which is very true, fine and really understandable.   but it doesn't prove that higher poly count isn't needed for certain morphs.  it proves that you don't create morphs that need it.  a very big difference.  just because you don't use a feature doesn't mean the need for that feature is just hype.

Quote - Also, since "Smooth polygons" was introduced, (and it works very well BTW, that extra , ultra high poly count is actually no loner justified.
it is more a selling point than anything else.

that's not really true, either.  it only works well on models designed to work with it well, just as subsurfacing only works well on models designed to work with it well.  and even then, both have their limits.  both methods just smooth.  they do not add detail.  if you want, for instance, a more complex shape compared to what you have, you might need more polygons.  and having boosted smooth polygons above 120 for Posette and still had renders that were problematic to me, i'd say it really depends on the mesh and its topology.  smooth polygons does not in anyway approach the quality of actual subsurfacing, in my experience and personal opinion.

the amount of polygons makes a big difference in terms of a lot of very vital performance issues when it comes to how figures are used by most Poser users.  do you really think everyone else should be held to your way of working?

Quote - What do you do with 500 poly's in the ears?? And then cover them with hair???

you're kidding, right?  last time i saw a survey, the most popular type of Poser render was fantasy.  the most popular fantasy subject is a pretty girl with long, pointy ears.  most of the lower poly Poser figures have so few polys in their ears, unmorphed they still look blocky.  i've personally played with morphs on V4 that had problems with the polygon limits of her ears. and i didn't approach, say, Rebelmommy's typical size.  and let's not forget the furry contingent that likes to make animal ears out of the latest Vicky.   ears which then need expression.   lots and lots of people need quite a few polys in the ears for morphs.

Quote - Posette, Judy, Low Res Alyson; they do not come better;

that's a real matter of opinion.  i've seen people do some truly impressive work with Posette and Judy (though not low res Alyson yet).  i'd actually be very interested in seeing your work.  but all of those figures have fairly irregular topology, and topology really matters the lower res you get.   they don't have the least faulty bending of all figures out there, they don't have UV mapping with the least amount of stretch, and body shape and proportion is purely a matter of personal taste.  i agree that a lot of hype goes into new figures, and there's a lot of inefficiency that could be solved by better topology rather than more polygons.  but basically saying the only reason people like and use the features of higher resolution figures is they don't know any better is just incorrect.

Attached Link: Visit Loretta HERE ... ;=]

Did someone say "Low Poly?"   She's less than 4K polys.

FYI - You might be interested in this one.  She's purdy cool.

She lives over at DAZ. (use the link)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Quote -  What do you do with 500 poly's in the ears?? And then cover them with hair???

Maybe that's useful should one want to make a close up of the ear area?
High poly count (+great textures) is what makes Poser models so lifelike and so versatile.
Does that make sense or is that complete rubbish?

Quote - But still, this list might be useful if anyone needs to populate a scene at minimal memory cost. 

IIRC there's a product for sale that simulates a crowd.

Quote -  With very high poly count models, one can only morph in the Z direction.

With Lower Poly models it is easyer to morph in the X,Y,Z .

just try  to drop V'4's breasts for some 2-3". Just to make them at least" look" real. Good luck.

What about products such as NBM or NGM?
Don't they morph the breasts in all directions?

Ooh, thanks for posting Loretta Lorez, Dr Geep.  I see an associated male pack which ranges from 2216-2674 polys.  Bravo to Predatron3DA. ^^

I'll need some low-poly dolls which can be animated to populate both the cars and the restaurant.

Quote - > Quote -  What do you do with 500 poly's in the ears?? And then cover them with hair???

Maybe that's useful should one want to make a close up of the ear area?
High poly count (+great textures) is what makes Poser models so lifelike and so versatile.
Does that make sense or is that complete rubbish?

Makes sense.  Sort of.  High poly count is not the be all and end all of good models.  Take a look at Antonia, for instance.  Even some of the older DAZ figures stack up well, apart from the bending.  

Trouble is, there is no easy answer.  Low poly figures with well thought out topology and good textures, coupled with displacement and other shader tricks can make great models which are useful in many situations.  High poly models with tons of morphs are also fantastic for single figure situations and close up work.  Sometimes.  Generally speaking, I'd like a medium poly model which can be used anywhere.  Just can't bring myself to like V4 at all.

Fact is, there is not yet one single figure which is great in every situation.  I should know; I have a Runtime full of 'em.

For the record, my all time favourite female figure is the original Stephanie.  Great default shape and face, morphs reasonably well and doesn't eat up a lot of RAM.  Doesn't bend too well, though.  There's a free morph set called Stephanie Max which is worth getting hold of, also another free extension set called Maxine, which allows the model to use a lot of V3 stuff.  For the life of me, I have no idea where these are available from now.  I'm sure someone will know.

Quote - Ooh, thanks for posting Loretta Lorez, Dr Geep.  I see an associated male pack which ranges from 2216-2674 polys.  Bravo to Predatron3DA. ^^

I'll need some low-poly dolls which can be animated to populate both the cars and the restaurant.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?keyword=crowd
I think some of these products could be of some use to you too.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -  What do you do with 500 poly's in the ears?? And then cover them with hair???

Maybe that's useful should one want to make a close up of the ear area?
High poly count (+great textures) is what makes Poser models so lifelike and so versatile.
Does that make sense or is that complete rubbish?

Makes sense.  Sort of.  High poly count is not the be all and end all of good models.  Take a look at Antonia, for instance.  Even some of the older DAZ figures stack up well, apart from the bending.  

Trouble is, there is no easy answer.  Low poly figures with well thought out topology and good textures, coupled with displacement and other shader tricks can make great models which are useful in many situations.  High poly models with tons of morphs are also fantastic for single figure situations and close up work.  Sometimes.  Generally speaking, I'd like a medium poly model which can be used anywhere.  Just can't bring myself to like V4 at all.

Fact is, there is not yet one single figure which is great in every situation.  I should know; I have a Runtime full of 'em.

For the record, my all time favourite female figure is the original Stephanie.  Great default shape and face, morphs reasonably well and doesn't eat up a lot of RAM.  Doesn't bend too well, though.  There's a free morph set called Stephanie Max which is worth getting hold of, also another free extension set called Maxine, which allows the model to use a lot of V3 stuff.  For the life of me, I have no idea where these are available from now.  I'm sure someone will know.

I have trust you there, mate.
As I said, I m new.
I don't even get the concept of displacement yet.

Quote - what do you mean by not smoothing shadows?

I was playing around with the low poly balls in poser7 while fooling around with mats.  Smooth polys was on and while the balls smoothed, and looking at the shadows (ray traced), they weren't smooth.  It looks like the shadows feature ignores the smooth polygons feature.

[quote
For the record, my all time favourite female figure is the original Stephanie.  Great default shape and face, morphs reasonably well and doesn't eat up a lot of RAM.  Doesn't bend too well, though.  There's a free morph set called Stephanie Max which is worth getting hold of, also another free extension set called Maxine, which allows the model to use a lot of V3 stuff.  For the life of me, I have no idea where these are available from now.  I'm sure someone will know.

Stephanie Max was by migal3d, and Maxine was from Netherworks.  Neither seems to be available; migal3d's site doesn't exist any more, and Stephanie Max was not in the Web Archive, and there are no longer  freebies on Netherworks' site... :sad:

I don't have either of them...

I honestly have no  idea what  you  are talking about.

Low  poly count  better for morphing?

You  CANNOT  morph  in the X or  Y  direction with  high  poly counts???

huh???

.....and specifically  about V4s  boobs -  you  say  you  morph a lot.  You  might want to  start  using a modeling program

thank GOD  V4s  chest  has as many  polys  as it does  -  it needs  MORE!

you  need  edge loops, edge loops,  edge loops !!!!  if you  want  large, naturally hanging breasts.  above was done from  scratch  by  me   - 90%  wings 3D  poly manipulation,  10%  Poser magnets.

below is a link  to  another view of same morph

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1988083&user_id=580115&np&np

My guess is that Vilters is referring to working from a low-poly raw mesh to make large scale overall changes, which is common modeling practice even if one intends to thereafter subdivide the modified mesh to smooth it out for the final model.

Second law of thermodynamics being what it is, it is easy to subdivide an efficient low-poly mesh into a higher-poly mesh, but terribly difficult (given only the higher-poly mesh) to extrapolate the efficient low-poly source mesh.

     So, I would guess that you simply have a different preferred work flow from that preferred by Vilters.  Doesn't make either of you "wrong".

You  make good points seachnasaigh  but that  is not at  all  what  vilters  spoke of*

*he spoke of  creating morphs (targets) for someone else's base figure.  in other words , reshaping a mesh  without changing the poly count.

How can  one complain  about a high  poly count if what  you  are  doing  is creating morph targets  -which  cannot have the poly count  increased  as a final  stage of the process

I am  not trying to  be argumentative ,  but the post I originally responded to  was just plain  bizarre ,  and I think  your viewpoint is accurate,  but it does not apply as a defense of the bizarre post.

interesting read.

First let me state that, From Poser1, I'v been morphing figures, and like it a lot.

I get the most pleasure of making something, of as little as possible.

Secondly, since smooth polygons came around, i'v been using it.

So i keep working with the lower Poly models, (less work, call me lazy) , but using displacement maps to put the details in.

When using displacent maps, poly count becomes irelevant.
You can "artificially" make as many poly's as you want. (without the workload of morphing a zillion points) Just a basic body shape is all that is needed. Morph the besic shape into what you need. Few points to move,  so pretty easy, and the rest  'detailing" can go in the displacement map. And yes, I'v been posting pics of this in the past.. More details needed? Increase the map size.

@ dr Geep , Yes I bought Loretta, and her husband.

And I would like to get in tought with the one who build her. (hint)

I also bought Little one.

A great figure, but a PIA in her standard shape. If she would have been develeopped into a woman, that would have been something. And, NO, you do not need extra poly's to do so. Her face is the cutest i'v ever seen so far, of any figure. Ans she has great textures and shaders.

Current project, morphing the PoserPro figures into semething uselull.

As I said before poly's are just poly's, serve no purpose  at all, as to hang some very good textures on. (including the displacement map). Basic wireframe, but . . . . . and this IS important, with a good rigging system.

Before that? The Poser4 Lo Res figures where my favorites.

Judy and Posette, and Alyson LO Res lately, have been my Highest res figures. (and I use them very rarely)

But, a nice discussion so far.

I heard  somewhere that  it is impossible to  morph  V4s  chest ,  that's all.

smooth polygons isn't  a raytracing feature.  iirc, it doesn't quite work with any raytraced effects.  this why you lose all smoothing if you use the bagginsbill artistic lens trick, which involves seeing the whole scene through refraction.  bagginsbill and pjz99 had a thread discussing and demonstrating this.  the issue was that there was a small-scale artifact (i think involving AO?) caused by the non-raytraced aspect of the Poser renderer, and while the lens trick got rid of the artifacts, it also got rid of smoothing.  so it doesn't show up in refraction, and i'm guessing not in reflection either.

Quote -
I heard  somewhere that  it is impossible to  morph  V4s  chest ,  that's all.

I think you misread it...

It's impossible to not morph V4's chest.  :biggrin:

Morph list:-
Impractical
Huge
Immediate spine snapping

:biggrin;