mylemonblue:  I dont know.  Hmm  What do you think? I have not gone that far so if you have some insight I'd apreciate it.

Cheers.

mylemonblue: I checked the mesh and I can just as easily run the seam up the back side, so I'll just do that. Thanks for catching that.

I used to draw the human form a gazillion years ago so I notice things like that sometimes. I'm glad if it helps. ^.^

Quote - mylemonblue: I checked the mesh and I can just as easily run the seam up the back side, so I'll just do that. Thanks for catching that.

I think having the split on the back would make some sense.  The mapping you show above looks great (love the checkerboard :lol:), but the UV map looks... freaky!  :lol:  Just sort of counter-intuitive, somehow.

But, then, I've never managed UV mapping of such complexity or refinement.  I'm still stuck doing planar maps split by side, most of the time.  :lol:  Cage is still living in the Poser 4 Dark Ages, in so many ways. 

Making the uv map, in some ways, is trickier than the modeling...lol. I applaud anyone who can do it and do it well ;o). I can get decent uvs, but certainly not stellar, but then again, I do mostly clothing which is easier than a figure on the whole and much more forgiving.

Laurie

Quote -

I think having the split on the back would make some sense.  The mapping you show above looks great (love the checkerboard :lol:), but the UV map looks... freaky!  :lol:  Just sort of counter-intuitive, somehow

:laugh: Ya it does look really strange, almost creepy. Imagine peeling someones skin from the neck down till it hung between their legs . And then peel the skin from the inside leg out to the sides. Veiw that from behind and thats what I did with it. The chest/abdomen ends up upside down and facing back. But it comes out pretty flat that way with low distortion..

LaurieA: I think so too, its pretty tricky to get them flat and low distortion with as few seams as possible.

When plan you embrace Brad as a character with all functions for testing.

model342: I will say in a week I will put out an alpha for testing that has all body parts rigged and working. and with UV's done.  The scaling for this latest Brad has not been set up yet either, and that will have to wait until I am certain that I am done tweeking the JP's, likely not until a beta version. So while all the body parts will work, for rotations there will be no scaling till a beta release.

I was recently reminded of another problem with the Poser rigging, and that is the assymetrical placement of the falloff zones for joints from left to right. This was a problem (very irritating one) in all the pre P8 versions of Poser. They have since with P8 and PP2010 resolved the issue to where you have symetry in the falloff zones. But once you take a figure from P8 or PP2010 back into older versions and use the symetry function the fallof zones again become assymetrical. Has anyone found a work around or a way to lock the falloff zones in place? I will investigate, but if someone already knows the answer, thanks in advance.

 DPHoadely will probably remap him so he can take M4 textures.
Love esther

The only thing I can think of that I hope Brad has is a slightly less "beefier" look ;o). I tend toward a more slender type, not that there's anything wrong with beefy...lol.

Laurie

 I'm really hoping he stays beefy.  sometimes it is better to create a new mesh rather than try and have one figure be all things to all people.  I think that's a mistake DAZ makes.
Love esther

Is he ready for some clothing?

Oh cool niles!  Looks good. I so seldom see him in clothes, its a shock.  :)  Thanks. I hope PhilC will add him to WW too. I know he is very busy though.

estherau: That would be nice of him. He is still beefy a bit slimmer.

LaurieA: I did in this next one make him a bit slimmer, still beefy but a shape I think will easily go in either direction, slimmer or stockier.

amy_aimei: Not quite yet Amy but in a bit he will be there.

Still working on the UV's just a bit more and they'll be done.  Any requests for material zones? I plan on all the usual like lips, body, legs, arms, nipples.  Any others please speak up.

Cheers.

I've always liked having specific materials for the nostrils and the inner eyes.  I'm not sure whether that's a popular view, though....

Quote - I've always liked having specific materials for the nostrils and the inner eyes.  I'm not sure whether that's a popular view, though....

Xtra material zones never hurt since you can do what ever you wish with them, at least I cant think of any down side.

 slimmer?  Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Neither can I, but there does seem to be some passionate opposition to them out there.  Extra zones can make it easy to spawn magnet-screening groups for areas otherwise difficult to isolate using the Grouping Tool.  They can be useful in a scripting context.  Hmm.

About material zone? can you make the Iris a separate zone too? Sometimes I would like to use procedural texture rather than the image map.  Been lurking and like what I see. It's good!!!

Quote - About material zone? can you make the Iris a separate zone too? Sometimes I would like to use procedural texture rather than the image map.  Been lurking and like what I see. It's good!!!

No problem, can and will do.

Yes, it's been a while since I was here - far too much work and too much Antonia as well I hope that you do not grumble over me that it took me so long to catch up with what happened with Brad*.

I've always liked having specific materials for the nostrils and the inner eyes.  I'm not sure whether that's a popular view, though....

*to me: very popular! Texturing a figure is easier if you have different zones for different materials. The eye-socket and the lacrimal for instance have a different shine as the eye or the surrounding skin. Same goes for the inner mouth, the teeth, the nails and so on. And having an extra-material zone for the nostrils makes it easier to adjust Ambient Occlusion that for this region. *
Of course many things can be done by using masks - but having a seperate material zone for specific parts makes the life of a texturer easier and may encourage more people to create texture add-ons.

Quote - Yes, it's been a while since I was here - far too much work and too much Antonia as well I hope that you do not grumble over me that it took me so long to catch up with what happened with Brad*.

I've always liked having specific materials for the nostrils and the inner eyes.  I'm not sure whether that's a popular view, though....

*to me: very popular! Texturing a figure is easier if you have different zones for different materials. The eye-socket and the lacrimal for instance have a different shine as the eye or the surrounding skin. Same goes for the inner mouth, the teeth, the nails and so on. And having an extra-material zone for the nostrils makes it easier to adjust Ambient Occlusion that for this region. *
Of course many things can be done by using masks - but having a seperate material zone for specific parts makes the life of a texturer easier and may encourage more people to create texture add-ons.

Oh no, no grumbles. Glad you have taken an interest in Brad. :) Antonia is much closer to being a finished figure and needs the most attention and support right now So I am happy you come by from time to time and see where he's at.

I agree for the extra material zones, I dont see any down side to having mat zones for each different type of body skin, or even for those area's that are hard to get to for morphs. (eyelids for one.)

If you browse the forums and search for material zones you'll find it both, pro and contra. Many people who like to texture characters by themselves hate it to wade through many material zones. On the other hand: Once this is done and a material pose or material collection has been made it is a one-click thing for the end-user. I, personally do not mind to copy my settings to several material zones that use the same settings. It's just a mark all-->copy-->paste thing in the material room or I use Shader Spider.

As said: The compromise between countless material zones up to "toenail right big toe" and one material zone called "Brad" may be to collect things that will use the same settings:
-all body/face skin materials. You may want to seperate these into face/body or face/torso/arms/legs - the benefit would be that you can use a face with a beard with the same body textures or for second skins, tattoos and such. In fact you could go even further, just look at M4 or V4 to see what I mean. They have feet-, leg-, hip and whatnot materials.
-lips
-teeth
-Inner mouth/gums, eventually toungue, even the teeth may be included - on the other hand it's nice to be able to adjust the tone of the teeth seperatly
-toe- and fingernails
-eyesocket
-lacrimal
-one material zone for each of the different parts of the eyes  - seperating the iris makes it easy to alter the color in the material room without the need of a different texture.

If you plan to add a seperate eybrow-geometry and/or one for pubic hair these should be seperate material zones as well.

Hmmm... did I forget something?

Thanks SaintFox: those are all good, and I'll look at M4 to see what the materials are there. I'm just guessing here but I think I should likely stick to certain names as well for compatibility with VSS.

I don't know how much sense it makes or how hard it is to do, but what if you divided the face into more than one mat zone, perhaps as many as 3. I'm thinking along the lines of being able to have options to change for example, only sideburns, or only beard/moustache, so a person could use, for example, sideburns 3 with beard 5 kinda thing. It's a real pain sometimes trying to get a beard figure to fit correctly on a custom morphed character and often, for short facial hair at least, it seems to look better to just have it as part of the face texture. I realize it probably sounds kooky, but there's this devil in me that always wonders if things can be done. LOL

Quote - I don't know how much sense it makes or how hard it is to do, but what if you divided the face into more than one mat zone, perhaps as many as 3. I'm thinking along the lines of being able to have options to change for example, only sideburns, or only beard/moustache, so a person could use, for example, sideburns 3 with beard 5 kinda thing. It's a real pain sometimes trying to get a beard figure to fit correctly on a custom morphed character and often, for short facial hair at least, it seems to look better to just have it as part of the face texture. I realize it probably sounds kooky, but there's this devil in me that always wonders if things can be done. LOL

Thats an idea, we'll have to try it. New ideas are good, if it doesn't work we can always go back right.

That's my thinking. :D

Quote - I don't know how much sense it makes or how hard it is to do, but what if you divided the face into more than one mat zone, perhaps as many as 3. I'm thinking along the lines of being able to have options to change for example, only sideburns, or only beard/moustache, so a person could use, for example, sideburns 3 with beard 5 kinda thing. It's a real pain sometimes trying to get a beard figure to fit correctly on a custom morphed character and often, for short facial hair at least, it seems to look better to just have it as part of the face texture. I realize it probably sounds kooky, but there's this devil in me that always wonders if things can be done. LOL

Have you ever tried Apollo Max?
He has a conforming Scalp/Beard figure tht works with trans maps. It has all the morphs as the Apollo Figure.

I did have Apollo once, but I cant look at his rigging etc ( against the license) For me thats like putting a canary in front of a cat and telling the cat he must leave it alone. LOL I want to look at it and figure out how it works, too tempting, so I just got rid of it. :)

the face uvs looks very nice and easy to adapt photos for it, that's cool!
also the body looks interesting. It's nice to know the ratio between the two of them so as to know what resolution would give the same quality on both of face and body

Hi pitklad:

Thats a good question. I dont really know what the ratio is.  I will have to figure it out. I should be able to get a sorta accurate ratio from the checkerboard pattern, for an exact ratio I dont even know how to get something like that. I'll try.

Well I am just about finnished with the materials, I'll post a list of what I have, here in a few hours.
Next I have to regroup the mesh into body parts again for Poser ( so many groups!) After that a little tidying up and a JCM morph for the mouth and one for each eyelid and I will upload a fully working alpha to the download page. Oh, and I suppose I will need to upload a couple of UV templates as well.

Whew! Cant believe I am getting close to something that is actually usable.  :)

Cheers,
Mike.

Edit: Correction not quite fully functional I still have the scaling to set up and limits to set. That will have to be for the next upload after this one.

I have several separate mat zones for hair overlays, pubic, chest etc.  And the back is also in its own mat zone so it should make tattoos easier. I have put in a beard and sideburn zones as well, I was thinking of perhaps even a mat zone for the arm pits? I need to go through the list and make sure all the names are similarly conforming. Something Make obj does easily and quickly.

Plan you next to low poly version still high poly Variant. Or there posting final-only low poly version.

I like what I see so far, in the materials list.  How about a separate material for the ears?  It can be useful to be able to define these separately from the rest of the head.  If there are multiple layers to the eyelashes, it might be useful to have separate materials for those, too.  At a certain point, though, too many materials may create the risk of making the figure a hassle to work with.  :unsure:  So don't let my suggestions sway you if it seems like maybe it's gone far enough.  :lol:

Oh yes, I think ears is a good idea, one can then make them hairy and morph them into dog ears etc.

model342:  Yes I am planning on a high poly version. It comes out at 69K so it is pretty high but still usable.

Cage, sazzyazzca :  OK I shall add ear material zones.

I am almost ready to upload the next trial. It will be the first alpha trial and has all the rigging in, and the UV's and materials done. This will happen tomorrow as promised. (I am making an effort to keep my word, sometimes hard :) I will also upload UV templates for the low poly_low res version (two templates) In a few days I will upload the low poly_high res version (4 templates)

The scaling will not be set up till later.  The genitals are included but not the "no gens" option untill I work out a new geometry insertion pose. So you'll just have to hide the gens if they bother you :) Still no JCM's that will come later.

Still alot of tweeking to do here and there but everything should work.

cheers,
Mike.

Ok I have uploaded the first alpha for Brad low poly   here;  www.poserpub.phantom3d.net/

There is still alot to do for all to be working smoothly. But UV's are done and all the rigging is in, although it still needs much tweeking etc.

In a day or so I will upload the lowres texture templates. and a day or two after that I will upload the high res texture templates.

I didn't get to go over all the rigging after doing the UV's but it should all still work more or less.

still no JCM's as yet, I'm waiting on those till I get done with any adjustments to the joints ditto for the scaling

cheers,
Mike.

Wow!  This is a good weekend!  :lol:

I'm eager to try the new version!  Downloaded, and on my list as the first thing to do tomorrow.  :woot:

Thanks, phantom3d!

Wow, fantastic figure :woot: Now we can "sit down" our figures :thumbupboth:

And... ahem... the figure is complete too :wub: (very complete indeed :lol:)

But... all the parts in the obj file are not welded with each other so ... how to make full body morphs outside poser (with another 3d editor), in particular, when using smooth tools across the part edges  :m_confused2:

Another thing too: some parts are "double" (the hip and the genbase for example) .... and I don't understand the use of it 

Cheers

Quote - Wow, fantastic figure :woot: Now we can "sit down" our figures :thumbupboth:

And... ahem... the figure is complete too :wub: (very complete indeed :lol:)

But... all the parts in the obj file are not welded with each other so ... how to make full body morphs outside poser (with another 3d editor), in particular, when using smooth tools across the part edges  :m_confused2:

Another thing too: some parts are "double" (the hip and the genbase for example) .... and I don't understand the use of it 

Cheers

I will upload a welded obj.  I guess I should just start using the geometries folder.  :)

I'm not sure what you mean by double?  Do you mean the trans map geometry? IE Brows, some on the hip and some on the genbase? That extra geometry is set up with a material zone for trans mapped hair. I Have set it up so that it is controlled by the underlying body part but has its own sub grouping so you can easily get to the geometry underneath if you wish, but usually if you are making morphs you will (I think) want to morph it as well, so that your trans mapped hair will fit the morphed geometry. Does this sound right to you?

Glad you like him.

cheers.

Quote - ]
I will upload a welded obj.  I guess I should just start using the geometries folder.  :)

Ya that would be fantastic

Quote -
I'm not sure what you mean by double?  Do you mean the trans map geometry? IE Brows, some on the hip and some on the genbase? That extra geometry is set up with a material zone for trans mapped hair. I Have set it up so that it is controlled by the underlying body part but has its own sub grouping so you can easily get to the geometry underneath if you wish, but usually if you are making morphs you will (I think) want to morph it as well, so that your trans mapped hair will fit the morphed geometry. Does this sound right to you?

Oh my bad :blink: ... completely forgotten that part of the standard mesh, as i've never used it. Please just ignore my  remark

Quote -
Glad you like him.

Sure I do. May be I could finally get rid of all these jcm (:cursing:) when bending the arms and the legs.

Cheers

Hi poliakis:

I will upload one to the same place later today (evening)  Heading to work now so when I get back.

Ya I am trying to get away with as few JCM's as I can, to keep it a small foot print for animation. He is a bit low on the poly side for too much in the way of morphs, except for the face. But I'd love to see what you come up with.

I could make those trans map thingies into conforming props instead of having them in the mesh? What do ya think?

cheers.

After a quick test drive it seems Carrara doesn't like your scaling, the third leg is broken. I can probably fix this by zeroing the figure in Poser and resaving.

I wish I knew how to set up IK as that would make posing somewhat easier, it would have to be done in Poser and I'm not conversant enough with the rigging stuff there.

For those who'd like to make morphs for unwelded meshes, you can use the free Morpher available in the freebie area here.

Edit: just tested in Poser 8 and apparently IK is set up, but for some reason the figure falls apart in Carrara if I try to translate body parts.

Edit 2: Okay never mind, this is what I get for not having my coffee before testing :-] IK works with feet but not with hands, same in both Carrara and Poser.

hoplaa : Ya, i know this program, but i prefer to work on a welded mesh: it's much simplier and quicker to get the desired results

Mike:  for the trans maps, really I don't mind: the simpler for you will be ok

What i'm worry about it's that the mesh doesn't seem to be symmetrical: for example, the line of the central vertices of the hip is shiftted on the X axis around 30 um (micro meter) from the center of symmetry (plane YZ) when the same line on the head is shifted a little bit more  (around 130 um) .
As a result, for example with modo  I can't apply symmetrical deformations, nor use the symmetrical tool to make this mesh symmetrical :m_cry:
The central vertices of the mesh must be on the YZ plane for my progie to work in a symmetrical way (at least, to the extend of my knowledge, may be there's a way but i don't know what it can be)

If you could have a look at that it would be great

Cheers

Wow!  He has poseable ears and eyelashes!  :laugh:

I like what I see!  :woot:

I'm wondering about the rigging, though.  Is the two-part Hip setup gone?  I thought that was the key to the bending results we were seeing with the figure. 

And then I go back and try the Hip 1 testing version which was posted a bit back, and it only has the one Hip, as well.  So I guess the two parts are unnecessary.  :thumbupboth:

Looking really good!  The only trouble I detect is that the UpperMouth is poseable and it deforms the head when it moves.

hoplaa:  I dont know why the scale on the gens would not be working in carrara, but I shall endeavor to find out. I read somewhere recently that I can pick up Carrara for fairly low cost these days, is this true?  and where do I get it? (who makes it) 

poliakis: I have uploaded a new set.  The cr2 now uses the geometries forlder.  You will find the original welded obj in Runtime/Geometries/phantom3D/BradLow/BradAxis.obj  I am sorry about the axis, I did not check it and origins etc. So I have reset the XYZ axis and updated the origins. So see if this obj does not work better for you. All you need to do is drop the new runtime folder into your Poser and the new cr2 will replace the old one and install the new obj.  In my signature you will find the link to PoserPub to download the new set.  Hope this solves the problem,  Please let me know. 

Cage:  The two hip set up will be added later as an option. The actuall bending of the thighs is the same. What the hip does is act like the swively on the end of a fishing lure. It allows the hip2 to swing free and is great for adjusting the hip leg bends while IK is on. Also it give a bit better abdomen action. As for the upper mouth...some things in the rigging are there just to isolate other body parts from effecting them. I put the upper mouth in to keep the lower jaw from effecting any of that geometry. So in the final version the Upper mouth will be hidden and disabled. The same with the eye stop bones.  So you like them ears huh:lol: They need a little work yet but the will come in handy. The eylash are poseable and rigged, for three reasons. One you can hide them to get to the eye lids with the morph brush, two, since they're boned you can trade the trans mapped eyelashes for geometry based eyelashes with a geometry insertion pose. Three you can pose them somewhat for different eyelid positions, and they follow the eylids without any morphs. 

Also i did not mention that the scrotum is rigged as a body handle, if you hover the mouse over the sack you will see a little cube inside, just select that to pose the scrotum.

cheers.

Quote - hoplaa:  I dont know why the scale on the gens would not be working in carrara, but I shall endeavor to find out. I read somewhere recently that I can pick up Carrara for fairly low cost these days, is this true?  and where do I get it? (who makes it) 

Problems with scaling are fairly common in Carrara.

If you're seriously interested in buying, the best deal is to get the book which has a full version of Carrara 6 Pro, and upgrade that to C7P which then also gives you C8P for free:
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=136508

I would give you a link to the book but I can't remember its name. It's sold at DAZ and various bookstores. Let me know if you need it and I'll dig it up.

There's also a free demo (Carrara 7 Pro, fully functional IIRC) at download.com

By the way, loaded Brad in DS and the genital area is broken there as well, but in a different way.

Quote -

I would give you a link to the book but I can't remember its name. It's sold at DAZ and various bookstores. Let me know if you need it and I'll dig it up.

There's also a free demo (Carrara 7 Pro, fully functional IIRC) at download.com

By the way, loaded Brad in DS and the genital area is broken there as well, but in a different way.

Thanks for the link I will check out the prices and see.

I see what you mean about the chopped off back on the scrotum in DS  That is because of the genBase:2_smooZ setting on penis1,  I have set it a little too close. Easy enough to fix ,I will fix it befor I upload the next alpha. The rest of the scale looks good in DS though, in fact smoother in DS than in Poser. Must be the internal scale smoothing thing Connie mentioned, cool.
I'm gonna play with Brad in DS for awhile and see what I can see.

cheers.