Well they are to me anyway.  So having returned as a merchant with a product I'm reminded of the old times when I sold the odd bit here n there.  Finding again with suprise, that most of the people who buy my stuff don't have much of a presence in Rendo.  No Gallery, maybe one friend, no contributions.  In fact only one in the last 10 had a gallery.

So who are these willow the wisps, are they real? How many of the sales here do they account for?  If my sales are any indication they make up the vast majority of sales.

I'm just curious, I thought most people here had at least a gallery, but perhaps I am mistaken in that assumption.

John

Fugazi, you are a very dear fellow, but I think that you think too much!!!  Heck, you've done more thinking in the last two months, than I've done in the last two years!!!  If it's not one thing that's got you distracted, it's another.  From where does your mind get all this energy, -and since it's so vigorous, maybe it should be harnessed to a power grid.  Think of all the homes and factories that it could light up. ;=D
dph

I like it when people are actively thinking about the what/where/how of stuff. Sometimes not enough of this is evident.

As for who those under-represented folk are - people quietly getting on with it I guess. Maybe those that interact more in other forums, or who like to keep themselves to themselves. I know a lot of people who just enjoy playing with 3d but don't really produce renders they want to put up for public consumption for one reason or another.
I have numerous accounts for sites where I might buy items from a marketplace but rarely if ever visit the forums,

Lots of thinking but it is interesting.

Quote - Fugazi, you are a very dear fellow, but I think that you think too much!!!  Heck, you've done more thinking in the last two months, than I've done in the last two years!!!  If it's not one thing that's got you distracted, it's another.  From where does your mind get all this energy, -and since it's so vigorous, maybe it should be harnessed to a power grid.  Think of all the homes and factories that it could light up. ;=D
dph

Ah DP, I appologise for my over reliance in thinking as a passtime, ufortunately even when I'm sleeping I am thinking about something.

Sometimes i think about cake, others about no cake, but beyon dmy actual job I do think alot about 3D and rendo and the people that inhabit said arena.  This is unfortunate for you lot because asking those questions elsewhere would be an almost complete waste of time :)

While these questions might be a complete waste of time here as well, it's still worth a shot to gain a little more insight into the world around me.

I've learned nearly everything I know by either thinking or asking, which is why I know more about software and hardware than I do about people.

John.

PS you would not believe the questions I don;t ask ;p

Quote - I like it when people are actively thinking about the what/where/how of stuff. Sometimes not enough of this is evident.

As for who those under-represented folk are - people quietly getting on with it I guess. Maybe those that interact more in other forums, or who like to keep themselves to themselves. I know a lot of people who just enjoy playing with 3d but don't really produce renders they want to put up for public consumption for one reason or another.
I have numerous accounts for sites where I might buy items from a marketplace but rarely if ever visit the forums,

All good points, I was jsut suprised that the majority of people fit into this category.

John

Yup, I'd noticed the same thing when I was selling at 3dCommune (RIP) and at Rendo.
With a couple of exceptions, the folks who bought my stuff were completely unknown
in the forums.   

I guess Talking and Doing are separate skills, which we mistakenly assume to be
naturally overlapping.   

Sorta like the old saying about Teaching and Doing....

It is possible that much of the output of those who purchase your content is the camel to the gallery's TOS's eye of the needle.

   I hope you now understand my comment (meant in the most kind and respectful manner, my friend) that one of the best way to learn  the marketplace is in the selling. 
   The discovery that the majority of purchasers are silent with no gallery presence is a shocker to most of us merchants.
  Looking forward to your observations on this matter.
PS  your new product looks spectacular. Good luck with it.
cheerio
lululee

But what about the mysterious zeros? :-)

Sorry, there are 10 sorts of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't...

OK, OK, enough nerdy jokes. I find this everywhere. For every person who participates, there are upwards of 10, 100, 1,000 who never post in forums, never show themselves, just get on with it. I get the feeling that us participants must be the odd ones out. :)

Quote - Sorry, there are 10 sorts of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't...

OK, OK, enough nerdy jokes. I find this everywhere. For every person who participates, there are upwards of 10, 100, 1,000 who never post in forums, never show themselves, just get on with it. I get the feeling that us participants must be the odd ones out. :)

That was a good joke. Amazing I never heard it before.

By the way, this (hundreds of non-forum/gallery partcipants for every one that is) was the essence of some of my past discussions here at Rendo regarding Poser features. The vast majority of users never state their opinions or problems here. But SM hears them via other means. It's a certain mistake to assume that the general consensus on anything amongst us here is a valid representation of the Poser user community as a whole. SM or Rendo could be quite well listening to the majority of their customers, while simultaneously appearing to largely ignore us and our opinions that we write in this forum.

Money talks.

Could be any number of things; some just stop by to look at the pretty pik-chas, some just download everything in sight (mea culpa...;) and some are too unsure or shy to post anything.

I very rarely post renders these days but I still buy stuff when I can afford it and still download freebies.  If money was no object (or is that .obj) I'd buy tons more stuff.  But it is, so I don't.  :)

In fact, I don't think I have ever posted pics featuring more than a quarter of the stuff I bought but I do use 'em. 

 I'm now mortified by some of the lame refrigerator art I'd proudly shared a decade ago.   People change, ...the net is forever. 

Quote -    I hope you now understand my comment (meant in the most kind and respectful manner, my friend) that one of the best way to learn  the marketplace is in the selling. 
   The discovery that the majority of purchasers are silent with no gallery presence is a shocker to most of us merchants.
  Looking forward to your observations on this matter.
PS  your new product looks spectacular. Good luck with it.
cheerio
lululee

Oh tish and Pish that is all forgotten, besides I have been a merchant before, I know what it's like already :)  I'd just fogotten about the mysterious ones.

John

Quote -  I'm now mortified by some of the lame refrigerator art I'd proudly shared a decade ago.   People change, ...the net is forever. 

You n me both :) but you gotta start somewhere ;)

Quote - > Quote - Sorry, there are 10 sorts of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't...

OK, OK, enough nerdy jokes. I find this everywhere. For every person who participates, there are upwards of 10, 100, 1,000 who never post in forums, never show themselves, just get on with it. I get the feeling that us participants must be the odd ones out. :)

That was a good joke. Amazing I never heard it before.

By the way, this (hundreds of non-forum/gallery partcipants for every one that is) was the essence of some of my past discussions here at Rendo regarding Poser features. The vast majority of users never state their opinions or problems here. But SM hears them via other means. It's a certain mistake to assume that the general consensus on anything amongst us here is a valid representation of the Poser user community as a whole. SM or Rendo could be quite well listening to the majority of their customers, while simultaneously appearing to largely ignore us and our opinions that we write in this forum.

Money talks.

A fine point, the only thing we can really say is that we are representative of ourselves.

My buyers fit the same mold. I haven't seen  many familiar names in the purchasers list.

I think that a number of issues have been raised in this thread, and not all the answers are pretty.

Issue One: Few people are active here in the forums.

The first time that I posted a message here, the response was far from welcoming. I don't even remember what it was about other than I had a question about something Poser 6 related, and I asked it. The first answer I got was incomprehensible ("just turn on what-ever-it-was"). I'm sure the poster thought he was being helpful. My mental response upon reading the answer was "Well, If I knew HOW to turn it on, I would! That's why I asked!" I responded with the "How" question and got something along the lines of "It's there in the Material Room." I scratched my head and opened the MR, not knowing about the advanced tab, and was bewildered. Another response told me to "Read the manual... it's in there." Well, DUH! The Poser Manual is SO clear, and SO well written. Oh yes... it's SO easy to find answers there. That was why I had asked the question.

One of the kinder posters finally took pity on me and answered my question in step by step plain English, but the net result was that I left feeling like an idiot, and it was a long time before I ever came back.

I said all of that to say this: I think we all could do a better job of trying to help each other. I don't think it's malicious. For example, the first time I asked Bagginsbill for help with an issue, he tossed the technically correct answer off quick as you please. I wrote back that I didn't understand, and then I got the simplified, step by step information I needed. BB wasn't being an ass... he was using the shorthand that the old-hands here use, not realizing that I didn't know 1/10th of what he does about the shaders. Once he realized what he was dealing with, he modified the answer so I could understand it.

So what does this amount to? Perhaps when we respond to a question, especially if we don't recognize the poster, we need to state it in simple language the first time, or at the very least attach the tag "If there's anything you don't understand in this, please get back to me."
Perhaps that way the perception that "I'll sound stupid if I ask this" would not be so pronounced.

A secondary part of this issue is the "I asked what time it was, not how to build a watch" syndrome. IF there is a simple answer, that is the first one that should be offered. You can follow it with "there's another way, if you're interested, but it'll take a bit of time." This will not frighten the newbies off, and might eventually lead them down the path to greater enlightenment about all things Poser.

Issue Two: Most Customers are not Modelers

My perception of most posters here is that they think the store is not all that important.  I think this because of countless posts I've read along the lines of "If I need something, I make it." Well, as someone who is not a modeler, let me assure you that to us, the non-modelers, the store is the reason to come to Rendo. The forum is a nice add-on for possibly getting help, but the reason we come is searching for content we need. 

I've been berated (usually indirectly) for not learning to model. Well, time for honesty. I don't WANT to learn to model. What I want to do with Poser is set up the tableaus that I create. Sometimes they are to illustrate a story. Sometimes they are just flights of fantasy. Sometimes they are works-for-hire illustrating someone else's fantasy. Whatever they are, THEY are what I want to work on. I'm not interested in spending days perfecting a model to fill in a detail over in the corner. I know that the people who model view it much differently. They want it to all be "them" in the image, and that is commendable. As I've stated before, I'm sure glad for the Trekkiegirrls, LukeAs, and LaurieAs of the world. They obviously love the modeling process, and they save me from having to do it.

Modeling is hard. Poser is easy. I suspect the vast majority of the store's customers view it the same way.

Issue Three: Most buyers don't have galleries.

I suspect that most buyers in the store do their Poser work to amuse themselves, not others. Of the ones who do share, they may be like me: I have my own site, and that is where all of my work gets posted. 

They may not feel that Rendo's Galleries are the appropriate venue. Some, perhaps, do only erotic material and post over at Renderotica. Some may think that the general audience would not understand/appreciate what they do, so they have found other venues with less general audiences, like Deviant Art. 

To assume that these people have no talent because they have empty galleries is probably a poor position to take. I think, more often, it is that they just don't think to post here.

Summary

I suspect that most buyers view this place as a store more than a community. Are they missing out? Well, I think so. Even though my views are often not appreciated, I'm glad I decided to get involved, because I've learned a heck of a lot hanging out. I suspect that more people than we realize lurk here, gleaning information from other people's posts.

I also believe there are many people who don't post, but just shop, read the forums and maybe look at the galleries. There's plenty of information here for people to find if they just look for it.

My various free items have been downloaded tens of thousands of times when counted together (not even talking about the fairly small number of things I sell) but I am pretty hard pressed to find them actually used anywhere.  I've seen them in probably less than 50 pics, certainly less than 100, let alone thousands.  Of the commercial items I've had out for sale, the number of times I've seen them used anywhere - credited or not - is probably less than 10.  Where does it all go?  I dunno either.

Pjz99, I use your outfits frequently! I know what all of you mean. I had a few character packs in the Marketplace, one of them initially sold quite well. I only saw one render however. When I would check my customers' names here on Rendo, I would find they had either no gallery at all or only a few images.

When I did my year as a merchant under the screen name MatrixWorkz, I didn't recognise any of my customers either. Since I rarely peruse the galleries anyway, finding a render with clothing I created is next to impossible. When I do look at the galleries, it's usually just at the Sci-Fi anyway. :tt2:

Perfect thread for me to chime in on - as one of the mysterious ones.. I'm not quite sure how I got started with poser, awhile back I ran across DA and saw some amazing artwork created with poser, I didn't end up buying it until about a year later. I'm the type when I get new software I want to know 'everything' about it, so I bought a handful of stuff from DAZ and started playing. After a few months and I couldn't get a render that looked better than something my 4 year old drew I was about to give up - then I happened on rendo.. I bought stuff, and lurked in the forum for months - no gallery, no posts, just soaking it up. It was at least 6 months before I had an image I felt was good enough to post.
Anyway, I think I'm starting to understand poser, realized I'll never know everything, and continue to follow the forum ( I may be more addicted to learning from the forums that actually using poser ) . So - us mysterious ones are out here, sooner or later we'll come out from behind the curtain.

Congratulations for peeping out from behind your curtain! LOL!

I'm gonna put in one other thing.
The better the artist get that DO post in the galleries the fewer new and moderate skilled people will post thinking "it's not good enough yet".
And the quality of pictures has gone way up over the last few years.

Quote -    I hope you now understand my comment (meant in the most kind and respectful manner, my friend) that one of the best way to learn  the marketplace is in the selling. 
   The discovery that the majority of purchasers are silent with no gallery presence is a shocker to most of us merchants.
  Looking forward to your observations on this matter.
PS  your new product looks spectacular. Good luck with it.
cheerio
lululee

To put it mildly, LuluLee. And the names people come up with. I guess we see artists as being visible, not just visual, but quite possibly many artists are very shy about showing anyone any of their creations....

I guess I have to consider myself in the Lurker category. I buy stuff. I make renders. I read the forum to learn stuff. Occassionally have questions but seldom have answers. It's fun to be associated.

I'm sure the reasons for not posting are many and varied. Mine are less mysterious than others. I like to make pictures but am not that interested in sharing. Nothing personal to anyone. I don't dance either because I know there's someone in the back of the room who'll be laughing their butt off at my feeble attempts. I also write but don't share my writing. I sing but nobody wants me to. I play the guitar badly in a back room when no one is around to tell me to stop.  I do it to make myself happy. It lets the little voices in my head that say "create" out of their cage.

They're not sick, twisted, perverted, sexual, nasty or anything like that. They're just images of things that interest me but probably no one else. That's cool. I don't want to tryto explain to someone why I thought a duck riding a horse through a stream of Jello pudding was worthy of a render.

Thing is, I'm better at it because of this forum and thanks to everyone who's answered a dumb question or two from me. Or answered questions that someone else asked that I'd never thought of asking and suddenly realized I needed desperately to know.

And as for those of you who model for free or for pay: thank you deeply. I don't have much interest in modelling things on my own. No time or patience for it. If y'all didn't do it, then I'd be completely out of luck

So, Mr. Fugazi, from one Lurkers perspective, understand that some of us don't have a lot to contribute but enjoy learning from the genius and experience presented here. And we may not post pictures of your products in the gallery, but we enjoy the heck out of buying/ downloading/etc them and using them for whatever. I guess we should say thank you more.

OK, first time for everything right?  I've been using poser now for about 6 years off and on and still feel like a beginner most of the time.  I have no idea how long I've been using this forum but it has answered most of my questions over the last couple of years.  When I need something explained in detail I just include bagginsbill in my search and there it is.

So thank you to the generous (and less shy) among us, we are out there and we are reading and learning.  Someday I may even post a render.

Jim (or Mysterious One #5207)

Nice to see a few of the Mysterious ones coming out of the shadows :) believe it or not I am a terminally shy individual too and I know it's hard work sometimes to come into the light.

To those who think their work isn't good enough to post yet, do you think a walkthrough of how to create a particular image would be helpfull.  Maybe something that goes through a number of processes to get particular effects?  I've seen similar things done with other software but not Poser.

John.

I have talked with a few people in the past that stated they did not post in the gallery because they felt their art work was not good enough to post in the gallery.

Fugazi - You shy?? :P

Quote - I have talked with a few people in the past that stated they did not post in the gallery because they felt their art work was not good enough to post in the gallery.

Fugazi - You shy?? :P

"Gallery" is an intimidating word, really... you expect muffled voices and a curator with a beard and really cool lighting, and noisy wooden floors. All pretty scary stuff.

I wonder if there might be a place for those who want to get a grip on techniques and kind-of need a tweak here or there... a place where they can show their stuff but only for purposes of letting people know where the problem is: a "this is not a finished work, I'm still mucking around, don't critique anything but what I'm asking for help for, please" kind of place.

RobynsVeil - Yes it can be. And can be upsetting when you see others getting comments and nothing on your image. I complete understand.

The gallery should be a critique or non-critique. It would be a nice feature to add to where you can check like the nudity/violence flags. It could display "Critique" or "Non-Critique". That way people would know what you would like. Does that sound like something you guys would want? :)

That sounds like a brilliant idea, R-Angel! That would allow at least a few more people to venture there. I always want critique, because most of my stuff is very much WIP with holes and problems everywhere. Of course, critique actually takes more work, and doesn't feed the other (possibly MAIN) reason people post in galleries, but it would be nice to have a safe-haven for newbs to play in and learn in and make friends in.

To be honest, I don't think anyone should be "Critiquing" anyone's gallery images unless they specifically ask for it, but that's just me and I don't post much to the galleries anymore. I mean seriously, do you go to real brick and mortar art galleries to "Critique" the art or do you go to "Appreciate" it? I think for most people, it's the latter of the two.

I'm certain that you don't go to a brick and mortar art gallery with a pad of postit notes and start sticking your opinion under each and every photo, painting or sculpture in the gallery. If you did, you'd soon find yourself hauled out of the gallery by the curator!

And as good of an idea as yours is Ryus, I don't think it would really help the situation much. People don't use the existing flags appropriately now.

LostinSpaceman -  I understand your point. :)

Quote - To be honest, I don't think anyone should be "Critiquing" anyone's gallery images unless they specifically ask for it, but that's just me and I don't post much to the galleries anymore. I mean seriously, do you go to real brick and mortar art galleries to "Critique" the art or do you go to "Appreciate" it? I think for most people, it's the latter of the two.

But that's what I'm getting at... it's not so much a gallery of finished works as rather a teaching tool. Yes, there's the Critique Forum/Gallery, but they've limited what you can and can't critique in there, so I guess we need something else - some other venue, perhaps not so much a gallery but rather just a place to post images or fragments of images with the idea of playing with concepts/developing skills/learning perspective/you name it, no limits, all everyone welcome.

it's a bit what happens here, but this forum may still be a bit too overwhelming for most newbies...

Quote - LostinSpaceman -  I understand your point. :)

Hehe..hey, don't let me stop you from suggesting it to the powers that be. It's a good idea. I just don't know how effective it would be.

Quote - > Quote - LostinSpaceman -  I understand your point. :)

Hehe..hey, don't let me stop you from suggesting it to the powers that be. It's a good idea. I just don't know how effective it would be.

No No.. I understand. I threw the idea out for everyone to take a look at. I'm open to all comments on it. :)

Quote - But that's what I'm getting at... it's not so much a gallery of finished works as rather a teaching tool.

I don't quite see where you're getting the idea that the Gallery is there to be used as a teaching tool. That may be how YOU use it, which is all well and good, but most people use it to display what they've created. As I said, if someone posts an image there actually asking for Crits in their description area, I'm all for people giving them what they want. If they don't however, people need to keep their crits to themselves. That's my 2 bit's on the subject.

The forums are most certainly the best place to come if you want tips on how to improve an image and folks come here and do just that now. Anyone can attach an image to a post and say, why isn't this doing such and such. The critique forum is for those looking for hard core critiques on their works.

I suppose, what you're really asking for would be a "Beginers Corner"  type forum for beginners to post their images and ask questions in. It would need to be more heavily moderated to keep things civil when newbies get critiscisms they can't handle and react badly and to keep trolls from going there just to feed on the newbies.

How many people actually post to the forums on a routine basis?  A few hundred?  Maybe as many as a thousand?  I routinely see 3000+ people online at 'Rosity.  Right now there are 5243 artists currently online.  Most of them don't seem to be forum people.

Which is too bad.  :sad:  This is a good community.  :thumbupboth:

Quote - > Quote - But that's what I'm getting at... it's not so much a gallery of finished works as rather a teaching tool.

I don't quite see where you're getting the idea that the Gallery is there to be used as a teaching tool.

I'm actually not refering to the current gallery at all, Lost. I'm thinking another, less intimidating venue altogether. There already IS a Crits gallery... but even that may not be inviting enough for the newb to want to venture into - if anything, it's probably a scarier place just because of its name.

Critique isn't really the best term, either.

I'm not explaining myself well, here, I can see that.

I'm conceptualising a friendly, totally newb-focused environment where newb questions can go, and "bring up your renders - any renders - and lets get some dialogue going".

Not here. Not the Gallery. Somewhere new. See where I said:
"...so I guess we need something else - some other venue, perhaps not so much a gallery but rather just a place to post images or fragments of images with the idea of playing with concepts/developing skills/learning perspective/you name it, no limits, all everyone welcome..."
??

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - But that's what I'm getting at... it's not so much a gallery of finished works as rather a teaching tool.

I don't quite see where you're getting the idea that the Gallery is there to be used as a teaching tool.

I'm actually not refering to the current gallery at all, Lost. I'm thinking another, less intimidating venue altogether.
I'm not explaining myself well, here, I can see that.

Yeah, you lost me when you called the gallery a teaching tool. Now I see you were talking more about a hyothetical place for newbies and not the existing gallery, it just didn't come across that way to me the way it was written because I was talking about the existing gallery in the post you quoted.

There is a Critique forum available for just such things, though as has been mentioned in previous threads it isn't used very much.

It's lack of frequent use makes it more or less a redundant tool, since anyone posting there is likely to be furhter discouraged by a lack of feedback.

As we know people posting images in this forum for critique or comment tend to get a frosty reception.

The question is how would we bring the critique forum back to life, to encourage new posts and give people a place to post their images and get constructive feedback, that isn't the Gallery?

John

I guess I am a mysterious one too,(sounds way cooler than a lurker) but even so, Renderosity and its generous members have been invaluable to me in advancing my knowledge of poser and digital art in general. I browse the galleries, the market place and the forums regularly, but post infrequently to the forums probably because I have no better information to add than has already been provided. I do always check the critique forum, as I think many artists, myself included, don't have a reliable venue to get constructive feedback on their work, but it is a vital part of any artists growth. I would love to see the critique forum used more and would post both my own work there, and readily comment on others.I think to critique someones work well is one of the most valuable things you can do for another artist. Even if its hard to here something you slaved on have all its flaws brought into the light, it means the next piece is better. having someone tell me whats right & wrong with my work, holds my interest and attention much more that someone simply saying "nice!" ( although "nice!" is good to here too) having a conversation about something you worked hard on and seeing it from someone elses perspective is also one of the most interesting things about making art in my opinion.
   I guess I always have a thought in my head  "I love renderosity, I should upload some props to free stuff/images to the gallery/mindless mental meanderings to the forum, but for whatever reason, I just get sidetracked and don't. I want to make an effort to change that, as this community is actually important to me, mysterious one though I may be.

Quote - ...I would love to see the critique forum used more and would post both my own work there, and readily comment on others.I think to critique someone's work well is one of the most valuable things you can do for another artist. ...

Bravo! Good ON you! Couldn't agree with you more. My most recent addition to the gallery was very effectively critiqued by one of the most incredible artists in my acquaintance. No, I won't mention her name, because I don't want to hurt feelings, but she gave me not only her perspective but also a very sound "why" for that perspective. Very compelling, very, very helpful. I am deeply indebted to her for her honesty and for sharing her artistic abilities.

Go for it man :) I'll keep an eye on the forum for any posts.

I'll chime in as one of the 'mysterious ones' (and yeah that sounds much better than lurker :) ).  I've bought stuff and read the forums on pretty much a daily basis, and learned many things. 

For me I don't usually 'chime in' unless I think I can offer something to the conversation, and in most cases here what I might have posted is usually already there, so I don't.  As for why I don't put any renders up, well pick any number of reasons :)  I mainly do 3D as a hobby, a way to let the voices in my head out sometimes (although I would love to see a duck riding a horse through a stream of pudding).

If I ever do get around to putting anything up, it will be because of the people here who have taught me much about our 'computer barbie dolls' as my daughter calls them :)  So until that time I'll just have to thank the many people here now, thanks :)

Quote - I'll chime in as one of the 'mysterious ones' (and yeah that sounds much better than lurker :) ).  I've bought stuff and read the forums on pretty much a daily basis, and learned many things. 

For me I don't usually 'chime in' unless I think I can offer something to the conversation, and in most cases here what I might have posted is usually already there, so I don't.  As for why I don't put any renders up, well pick any number of reasons :)  I mainly do 3D as a hobby, a way to let the voices in my head out sometimes (although I would love to see a duck riding a horse through a stream of pudding).

If I ever do get around to putting anything up, it will be because of the people here who have taught me much about our 'computer barbie dolls' as my daughter calls them :)  So until that time I'll just have to thank the many people here now, thanks :)

mmmmmm Duck and Horse Pudding :p~~~~~~~~~~ quack n turf

Quack and turf... You a very funny guy!

BTW, there may or may not have been a half naked Vickie wielding a sword on the back as well. You can never have enough of those...

And by half naked, I mean she was wearing 6 inch stilettos...

Quote - Quack and turf... You a very funny guy!

BTW, there may or may not have been a half naked Vickie wielding a sword on the back as well. You can never have enough of those...

And by half naked, I mean she was wearing 6 inch stilettos...

I think in this particular surrealist nightmare the duck represents vickie, and as suck would be  half naked and holding a sword in its beak (bill).

The pudding is clearly a representation of a tample, and as such would be a dark pudding, possibly chocolate with dark red cherries floating in it.  Any additional cream (probably squity stuff from a can) would be discretionary and purely to the taste of the dreamer.  For an extra classy feel, some sort of sprinkled nuts would be appropriate, since the dreamer is clearly insane ;p

How and if you wish to visualise a half naked duck is entirely up to you, though of course ducks do have an impressive breast.

John

How do you DO that? It's like you're inside my head!!!!

BTW and on a more serious note, I totally enjoy your thought provoking questions and thoughts. Please keep them coming. This forum is a great place with many interesting people and I get thoroughly immersed in the technical aspects of Poser; but it's refreshing to discuss/read the "OT" threads as well. Heck, we spend enough time in the same place, we might as well know what goes on inside each other's head.

Except for mine. It's a cold and scary place filled with demons and even I don't go there often!! But, rest assured, there is always a half naked duck with a sword in its bill accompanying me.