Ive been here for close to a year now and pretty much use the galleries to post wip im doing models etc for poser of latley i have noticed moor and moore people doing the same they are usually done in several differnt programs and made posable for poser ! so here my suggestion in order to get even moore viewers here id like to start a modelers session forum here it would be for modelers in a class like atmposphere each month we would focus on a subject post must pertain to the subject only very strict everyone could learn from each other and stay on subject this will creat better models higher level of users and probally moore store submissions of outsanding quality I would like to say again that id like to keep the forum strictly non software specific and session specific topics only i think me and teyon would be willing to moderate it and keep these goals in sight also i think that this differs greatly from the character creators forum due to the fact that this forum is dedicated more to the art of modeling tools technique and skills on a specific topic in a group class type atmospere! thanks id love to here some feedback

Interesting idea. What type of topics would you like to see discussed in this forum? How would you teach some of the complex topics while remaining software independant? Keep in mind, moderators need excellent communications skills and must adhere to a set of conduct guidelines.

LOL"Keep in mind, moderators need excellent communications skills and must adhere to a set of conduct guidelines. yes my typing leaves alot to be desired :) There is a site in which i belong to where we do this already but its actualy for pros in the industry i speak with peole like taron plexcus etc they are well known but heres some samples ! 1 suggestions in modleing as far as terms of anatomy and how positioning on models effects poseability the effect of proportions making wrinles muscles etc none of these nece. need to be software specific if somone is stuck on their app they could always ask those questions in the software forums 2 Topics they would be wide ranging from as simple as creating hair to making a realistc human body

i hope this gives you a general idea of what i mean if not just ask again thanks Rcook Trav

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I think it would be a great idea. This way, everyone into modeling, no matter how advanced, can give techniques and/or learn from each other. It would also be good to have tutorials on the discussed topic (much like in the Rhino forum).

sounds good to me,im just starting and there is nothing like another person to teach one the ropes.

Funny that Trav posted this today, as I was about to make another post on my thoughts about character design in the Charcter creator forum. It's a great idea, really. I'm behind the whole class/discussion/idea thing. However, I don't see the need for a new forum. We could simply agree to do this in the Character creator forum. It's there, we might as well use it, right? My thought is this, we (Trav and I) could agree to supply new ideas for topics (perhaps twice a week) that everyone interested can join in on. Trav could conduct a general task to perform (I'm more about theory than practice) and I could help people with the basics of design theory. Tasks should be braod enough that everyone with a modeling program who's interested could participate in. This would leave out the rather large Poser community but that really can't be helped. Because this would be seperate from the day to day grind of the forum, ClintH and TBKoen wouldn't have to frett much about it (though your input would be welcome, guys). It seems like a far easier way to conduct it for everyone. Trav, because I'm already co-mod of the Rhino forum, this Classroom within the CCF would be your baby so my mod duties with Spike won't suffer. It's an idea to kick around and I think we mods should have a sit and really decide if it's viable. I personally think folks will love it, not only because it's a good idea but also because Twillis, ClintH, and TBKoen sort of have this challenge thing going over there that would work better as a classroom lesson thing anyway. (hard to havea CC challenge...who gets to decide what character is better and why?).

I like the idea of a modeler's forum, although I'm not sure what you mean by a "classroom" setting -- I'd have to see how that works out. I believe it would be better as its own forum -- folding it into the Character Creators forum might limit the topics. Would the folks at the CC forum welcome discussions on creating mechanical devices or architecture? (I'm struggling with a romanesque vaulted ceiling at the moment.)

I see what you mean the only problem is focus on the topic is what will make or break these sessions, and that would be hard to do if you have to search through topics such as 1 will somone make this for me 2 do you know where i can find 3 this is my new comic etc What im looking to do is bring some pros who are friends that could have a significant input without having to deal with the person who just bought poser and made the 100th version of tomb raider! lol i want to keep it focused on modeling and skill asociated with it the first month could start out with a simple head tutorial that everyone could try with differnt apps! and a concept sketch, maybe two to fit differnt styles one nurbb or spline andone box method or point by point once everyone has completed the head to a point then we could focus on eyes and eylid wrinkle detail etc next hair for it everyone could comment on each others work etc to help you could ask whatever questions you like just stay on topic i cant stress this part enough if you get a bunch of topics that say lw is better than max or maya is the best app or where can i get koz hair moore expierenced users wont hang around and thats the idea behindi get some expeirenced people to lead and the less expeirenced learn at the other forum im at they recieve 300,000 hits last monthe cause we do it that way its strict but works i wouldnt mind doing it in character creators i could use tbkoen and clints help but i dont think the focus would be there and then its really a waste of time ! thanx everyone for your replies Trav

btw im emailing tbk to see what his views are in some way it may seem that this would be similar to character creator forum bu i think once its going it would be alot differen for one there would be a subj which all would have to follow and everyone would be working towards a similar goal each month and that goal would be the only topic like college no other topics allowed there are plenty of forums that are here for those

Great Idea TravisB , I would join in the Forum... Learning modeling now and there not bad, my texturing needs help but hey in due time...

Always a need to learn from the experiences of others :) I think many modellers would benefit from this idea and so would the community in general.

kick ass! lets do it. this is the kinda thing I am looking for........ Good Idea Travis

Good point there, Trav. I guess a new forum would be needed. Well, I'd be more than happy to be your assistant, just not a Dean of Students....

Seems to be a good idea :) J-L

i'm on it for sure. its something like we have in the rhino's forum but with models from any soft. i think that it's exactly what we need. great idea travis. and teyon is one of the most creative modellers i've ever seen, so it will be fun and very instructive.

I agree with what Loganarts says above, it can only be good to have more interaction with likeminded people from other forums. HJ

I'd be interested in a forum like this. Travis, you might check out a tutorial Litst (the moderator of the Carrara forum) made for modeling a human head. It might be easily adaptable to general software, instead of Carrara specific. --Terri

I dont understand how this would work. I mean, there are already tutorials on these subjects in the different modelling apps forums(Rhino Carrara 3dsmax etc) so how would it work to meld these together? I think Teyons idea of just using the Character forum is great, because learning specific modelling skills are mostly for a specific program since the techniques for specific things are different in different programs. Like some programs uses splines where other uses lines, or where some uses hypernurbs other just uses nurbs. surfaces where others use polysurfaces etc... So i think the Classroom setting would be lost somewhere in the software jungle. And people who uses different programs to that extent that this would benifit them are a true minority. A high-quality Modeller often stay put and is great on one program and not so good at others. Maybe thats why you want to start this forum, i dont know...

So far, it looks like everyone wants to do this. We just need a way to keep content showing up and be useful for many folks. Robin is right that there's lots of program specific modeling tools out there but the underlying basics are the same. The basics of Spline modeling would be the same across the board for any program that could do it, as are the basics for nurbs creation, box modeling, etc. even if the terminology differs. The hard part is limiting yourself from writing about features specific to anyone program...

Hi all thank you for all your comments and support ! I think teyon's post can give some an idea of what were talking about it is not a forum geared towards the total novice, though the novice modeler can advance his/her skill and cut months off of learning time by browsing, robin there are tons of programs! i have about 7 my self but all have basic modeling similarities polygon spline nurb sub patch sub division. Mirai, LW, 3ds max, carrara, hash animation master, strata, maya, soft image, houdini all have similar modeling some of the tools to manipulate them differ rhino uses nurbs as alot of other modelers do as well but the end results are the same what we are looking at is more a review on modeling how to do the corect anatomy, positoning, proportion, development and texturing along with help and sugestions on how to improve or use techniques to do it to enhance the model.most programs now come with several different options to model in therself for examle LW uses splines sub divison polys etc i will post some pics below to show moore of what the forum would involve far moore than a tutorial moore of a class effort not being taught but learning from each other there is far moore to modeling than creating a relistic face!lol (if using a program name to explain a process is necesarry in a post on your wip it would be alowed as long as it was on topic thats the key post about how do i do this unrelated to the topic would not be alowed ! for example if one months topic was head modeling you could post a pic of you head model and say im having trouble doing eyes on this then someone could tell you what tools or how to fix it but a random post on how do i make muscles in the leg when the topic was head modeling woutld not be !)

small side not I think this would be a forum jointly moderated by many teyon me tbkoen litls clint etc if they were willing of course i have contacted tbkoen and i think this forum would be far from the character creators forum take a browse through to see what i mean though it may be moore of wht he had in mind when creating it not sure i would suggest simle rules be posted at the top of the forum saying something to the extent of 1 stay on topic if there is a topic youd like to here we will issue new person each month to choose a topic by vote or some otherway means off topic unrelated post will be deleated 2 software and questions pertaining to are allowed only if they relate to your wip that you are doing for this months topic no comparing or discusing software unless in this matter 3 commenting on each others work and how to improve or create on topic models is greatly apreciated and welcomed 4 off topic questions are to be directed to retrospective forums no offense but this forum is intended strictly to improving modeling skills and to better the artisitc output and not a manual thank you i hope this hels give an example !

i have had a few people concerned about the topic thing the reason for this it would help insure the topics of each month that some already are good at could help those who are not so good a group effort. you may have to wait for your topic to come up, but helping is as important as learning, also for example: if you want to learn how to do wrinkles in pants or cloth but this months topic is head modeling you could suggest learning wrinlkles in the eylids and then apply them to the pants !

That's a excellent idea, Travis ! I do think that it's possible to have software-independant discussions . I'm using Carrara and i've learned a lot from tutorials for Lightwave or others . And like you pointed out, the techniques are basically the same even if softwares handle things differently . An extrusion is an extrusion, a subdivision is a subdivision and a poly count is always too high ! ;) Some where saying that we could use the Characters Creators forum . Well, modelling isn't always about characters ! There are lots of things to model in life : bolts, nuts and other things like screws and screwdrivers . I can't think of anything else right now but there must be a lot of things around that are just waiting to be modelled ;) ! In the various forums around, people don't always post wireframes or unsubdivided versions of their model ... even though looking at the finished model won't help you a lot to understand how it was made ! That could be a good place to post modelling tutorials too, or links to existing tuts on the net . About the challenges : on the Carrara/RDS forum, we sometimes do some 15 minutes challenges . Azchip started this a long long time ago . The goal is to learn something while following a simple lesson ( model something on your desktop, for example ) . Often, we see short tutorials explaining how people have made their image . Really this is a great way to learn from each other ! And that's fun too coz we have to hurry to finish our image in the 15 minutes allowed ;) One last thing : if you do this, i'd suggest not to go with a very precise idea . Just do a forum about modelling . It will evolve as people do things and find its own personnality, just like the Characters Creators forum (or others) did :) litst

Hi Travis - Cool idea man. Rather than retype....I pretty much agree with what litst said. The first thing that poped into my mind was using the Character Creators forum. But, Having a forum dedicated to "Generic Modeling Techniques" would be a nice archive of information to have available to the members. Clint

would love to join this forum

wow Great response i wasnt really expecting this musch support :) Im open to forum rules! One of the reasons id like a few people to moderate, other than one! I think it should still be somewhat limited to at least just a few topics. maybe this could be done by doing a car model one month an organic creature the next and buildings on another session if we did it this way everyone would have to basically help each if you finish sooner stick around and give others a hand type of thing ,other opinions techniques etc and it would involve several different modeling skills, Each month theres alot of different things to model on a car a building or creature like hair lights wheels etc. keeping a focus as a group is very important this will make the person who only uses 3ds or lw helpthe person using carrara and rhino and get different perspectives! Aat the beginning of each month we could see what everyone would like to do make a list and then cross off as we move along http://www.izware.com/news/indexa446.html a good link while we wait and see

I can only agree, this idea is great and i support you guys! I'll join this "Modelers sessions forum" the second you start it up. ,, the idea is great and the fact you want to use it on a strict model basis is excellent.

I hope you get this Forum - I'd love to read it. I like the concept of general modeling type info.

I think is a great idea. I'm very much a beginner at modelling and this would be a big help. Rich

Yes, it's a wonderful idea. I'd defenately join! The Creature

I'll gladly give it my vote too. It really does sound like a great idea. -Mike

I'll have to say it's a pretty good idea. If it can be kept focused I would really enjoy the forum. As long as it stays general and just to the ideas and basics of modeling. Otherwise we're going to have a lot of bleed over from the other modeling (soft specific) Forums, and that would take away from what those forums are for. Like Lightware, Amapi, Max etc... So as long as we could keep specific questions about certain packages to those forums and keep one for general modeling.. I'm All For It :)

I think the new forum would be a great idea! I have modeling clothes pretty much down pat, but I have tried sculpting the human form, well, alien is as close as I can get. I recently was given Lightwave 5.6 by a friend who bought the new lightwave, so I would really like to learn about that one! I would be happy to join in!

...and rendering! I think a paltform-independent skills forum would be fantastic. As the above example shows, ayone can benefit from knowing proper human proportions. I think there are many basisc skills which can be addressed, independent of a specific program. For instance, I just finished an excellent book called "Digital Lighting and Rendering" by Jeremy Birn. Magnificent. It gives information on the "basic" skills of lighting, shadows, composition, use of color, staging, compositing, texturing, and animation. It explains things I never knew, such as determining the "temperature" of light for an animation based on the type of film the studio will use, or proper studio 3-point lighting, or what specular and phong REALLY mean, or why ambient light can be very bad. Just the kind of info I'd like to share! Lots of beginners like me would appreciate that sort of thing, I think. These are

Or- did you know... one of the most common mistakes in CG of any sort is the values of the colors are too high. Nature never uses pure colors- only computers. Black and white photographers use a colored filter for increased contrast- this can be done in CG, too. The "rule of thirds"- dividing the view into 9 boxes to help position compositions. (ie horisons are best 1/3 from the top or bottom, but not center.) Cool! (Hey, I impress easily. But like alot of others, I wanna learn, and I love to share!)

Micheleh, cool stuff to know... To TravisB, I may be a little late in my support, but it sounds like a great idea to have a modelling forum. I wuld love to learn new modeling techniques and such from masters and fellow artists. I also agree that Creature is probably too limited, since much modeling isn't creature oriented. The archive from such a venture would be a great resource as well. Count me in for support of this idea...

I'll have to toss my hat in on this one as well. Although each package does have it's unique tools/interface, I quite often do tutorials designed for other packages. Once you get familiar with your software, its pretty easy to adapt them to fit the tools you have. Some of the only issues I could foresee would be NURBS, Sub-Divided Surfaces (HyperNURBS and other such names). Not all packages support these.. but most do at this point. Even so, general principals and techniques transcend the software. Lighting, coloration, composition and basics will go a long ways in getting folks modeling and rendering better images. There are many among us who have exposure to a classic artistic based education. Myself, I do not. I have just picked some things up from friends, books and keeping my eyes open to the world around me. Having a place like this would be a valuable resource to add to my collection. (and everyone elses.;) - James

definately go for the new forum, that way there is less confusion. I think its a wonderful idea. I would definately visit :)

We are currently discussing how to best handle the creation of the Modelling forum in the Mod forum. Please don't think this request is being ignored. :)

i am currently working on two head tutorials if it is created but no one has contacted me so ill wait and see what happens! thank you to everyone for supporting this idea

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Thanks rcookand staff !