Yesterday I got an email from the Vue coordinator here that my alien images - especially the thumbnails of them - were identified as containing nudity and have to be changed. The images were taken out and put on hold and will be taken out completely when i do not change the thumbs.

Here is a link to my personal gallery if you want to see naked aliens:

www.dropbox.com/gallery/6397749/1/Aliens

The aliens have to wear clothes I was told!

Now I do not want to go into discussions about aliens and where they have primary, secondary and more private parts and where in my images I displayed them. But I do not want to change thumbnails that have as much to do with sexuality as Donald Duck or the Michelin Man have. So the images will probably been taken out. Shocked I am about the amount of fantasy that sees sexual content in these images at all. BTW it has taken 3 years for them to be noticed. I was told to change the thumbnails (but not to flag the images as "contains nudity") back to 2007 where the TOS has changed.

I will NOT change the thumbs (I am lazy and I can't anymore anyway because the images are out already and i don't remember what I posted when and where) so the images will probably be taken out completely.

I will disappear from this forum therefore too, not interesting to be part of a community that has only sex in mind and sees that everywhere. I believe that there are other interesting things beside that and I will follow those up in other forums.

Thanks to heaven there are other forums available where I will be now - Cornucopia3D, the e-on registered user forum, Facebook, CGTalk and many others. Even DevianArt maybe one day.

All the best to everybody, I found a lot of friends here and am thankful for that.

Goodbye Walter, see you at Cornucopia 

Mazak

Oh!! Wabe I am so sorry so many talented people disappearing for this forum, I quite agree with you this is PC gone mad. Good luck I am a member of most of the forums you mention so I hope not goodbye. :mad:

And I thought YOU were the looney one! This is crazy, stupid, etc. It's definitely not goodbye for us, but this bigotry  certainly makes me want to leave this place too.

Bruno, maybe I can borrow you my Darcassians to speed that up a bit.

Just popping in to say I don't see any Bong images getting tagged. That's a naked alien too, non? Well, maybe not the mummy skin but the others are certainly nude! Could it be that hot market items don't need to be tagged but obsolete ones that don't bring in the bucks do? I feel sorry for poor Darcassian. First he was pulled from the market and now this... :(
Thumbs down at the two-faced Rendero porn police!

If they have problems with your images, than they should throw me out too... because some of my previews contain straight up nekked poser models

I shure will miss you around here...

Sorry to see you going, even though I understand & agree with your reasons.

See you at C3D & CGTalk!!

Bernie

Wabe
sorry bro you're a great artist/guy, sigh.:(
Fed the hell up with this crap myself. Mods are very nice about it, but it's RETARDED.
**You're stuff is obviously ASEXUAL, how the hell can a penis-less alien be "Nude and offensive"? It's like complaining Bugs Bunny's ass is on show!
**
Alas, Rendo's servers are in the USA, a large chunk of which is total bloody "LaLa Land" and at the root of this. half my family is American, and they know that, jeesh, nearly all of them have a specific faith but they ain't damn nuts about it and know the difference between "faith" and "religion". 
"Creationist Park"...OMG...

My friend. I am truly sorry to here of your intended departure. The social retardation and sexual repression of my country disgusts me. What's next? Censored images of Gumby and Pokey? No more Warner Brothers characters? Hell, half of Disney's characters don't wear pants. I see nothing that justifies the removal of these images ( and I am talking to the moderators and operators of Renderosity here) and doing so represents fundamental intellectual cowardice on the part of the powers-that-be.
Farewell Wabe. I am truly sorry to see the exodus ( or is it more a Stanlinistic purge?) of good artists and great community contributors. This is how the original Poser Forum died that lead to the creation of Renderosity, Renderotica and Runtime DNA. Maybe it's inevitable.
Good luck my friend.
 

There's absolutely NOTHING offensive about your characters, Wabe.  In fact, they're quite endearing....  May as well put clothes on a robot, or an automobile.  (Well, some cars do have skirts....).  It looks like it's about time for those of us who can think for ourselves to follow you and Rutra... PC is going to be the end of us if we don't wise up...  . 

 Well, they are certainly clearing out a pool of knowledgable and generous people without good cause.  Sorry to see this. 

Be well, Wabe, and thank you for you help over the years.

Teque

Well it's very clear to me!

No excuses Wabe, all Rendo staff and mods ARE ALIENS. So they know exactly where those private parts are! You really have to put some clothes on them, which you off course can only buy at........well, Rendo.
See, see, it is one big conspiracy of Aliens! I knew it, I knew it.......

This is very upsetting to me.  Thanks to the stupid policies of the Renderosity staff the Vue forum has lost another great member... 

Sorry to hear you are leaving RR Thanks for the help over the years.
Catch you at C3D

Posted a thread on the Community Centre Forum about this idiocy

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2806609

I can't understand all this fuss about Renderosity. Renderosity is not so special, it is nothing more than a Poser content e-commerce site with some added functionality thru forums and galleries.

Just consider Renderosity galleries organization: images are divided first according to the application then according to the subject; this clearly betrays Renderosity mission as content seller. If you create content with different media, your work is splattered around in the gallery without any coherence. On DeviantArt all your works are in one place; when they start to be a large number you can sudivide them into galleries according to any criteria you deem sensible.

In addition, on DeviantArt you can find without troubles all kind of work: from perfectly safe-for-work images like Dylan Cole matte paints to pinups (euphemism for "haven't had enough time to undress sufficiently to classifiy as porn") to things that, according to me, are fully soft core. People are treated as grown ups that, when they find something they don't like, they are self sufficient enough to stay away in the future from such things/artists/subjects.

A last comment: it is useless to start a discussion with Those-That-Are-In-Power. The more you show people they are wrong (especially those in a position of power) the more they will entrench themselves into their previous decisions, so not to "lose face".

Bye...

Quote - I can't understand all this fuss about Renderosity. Renderosity is not so special, it is nothing more than a Poser content e-commerce site with some added functionality thru forums and galleries.

Well, it is more: it's a community. You get on the Poser forum with everyone contributing and sharing and helping, and that community spirit really shows. Recently there was a post by some individual asking for tags on images depicting non-heterosexual affection, and the community pretty-much showed its enlightened, tolerant colours in their response to him.
I can say without fear of contradiction, however, that that community spirit doesn't extend to other parts of Rendo, and I really think that is largely due to the location of Rendo's main office and the mores that hold sway there. Having lived in Australia for over ten years now has shown me that many Americans do suffer from "nationalistic myopia" in the sense that they impose puritan, Bible-Belt censorship on the oddest things. I can say this because I'm still an American. For now.

Quote - A last comment: it is useless to start a discussion with Those-That-Are-In-Power.

I don't think that is true, necessarily... but I do think they have to uphold the policies set forth by their organisation, however indefensible. For that reason, instead of discussing (arguing) points of contention, they will shut down a thread simply because policy requires them to. Their hands are tied, in that sense.
Rendo makes the rules: the Mods have to enforce those rules.

*Rendo makes the rules: the Mods have to enforce those rules.

*Rendo makes the rules and the Mods interpret the rules. Since I haven't seen any nudity tags on pictures of apes (which are humanoid in their proportions) I have to assume that someone lost his mind in this instance. 

Point taken.

Quote - *Rendo makes the rules: the Mods have to enforce those rules.

*Rendo makes the rules and the Mods interpret the rules. Since I haven't seen any nudity tags on pictures of apes (which are humanoid in their proportions) I have to assume that someone lost his mind in this instance.  *

Yes they do. Of course they are SELECTIVE about how they enforce those rules - which is VERY sad and why I rarely come into the forums here. This sort of stupidity only shows me again WHY I choose not to spend time here.

When you start seeing SEX in Wabe's aliens, you are a pretty sad individual.

But the forums and the gallery seem to be guided / modded by different mentalities... one sees images here on the forum I find really ... um... brave.:biggrin: Yes, they're tagged, but still...

Wabe, I had not seen your aliens before. They are delightful and I'm sorry this happened.

Robyn,  as  (some would probably say) a heathan,  librul who wants the terrorists to win so every God fearing American will have to bow down and have butt seks with Osama Bin Laden, I would hardly dispute you characterization of some of our more colorful mores. But:

r.e. internet censorship for example,*

"Such a sweeping mandatory regime risked damage to Australia's reputation, it [Google] said, adding in a veiled reference to autocratic countries such as China that it could "confer legitimacy upon filtering by other governments". "  http://www.physorg.com/news188542317.html  March    23, 2010

N.B. Law apparently delayed until 2011 under pressure. http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=623865    July 11, 2010

You also have a national censorship body, with the power to effectively ban movies, magazines, etc. - and has banned materials that are readily available in the US. So, Oz is apparently not an unalloyed bastion of free expression in this regard. Again, not contradicting you, just pointing out that we all have our crosses to bear. And I will not chant USA!, USA! OK vewy, vewy quietly as a fully clothed Elmer Fudd would say.

*

I agree... Australians are by nature fairly conservative, perhaps more so than Californians or New Yorkers. But there's no known Bible-Belt (to my knowledge) that public entities like websites and so forth have to be sensitive to potentially offending. Billboards advertise sex-aids (for longer-lasting sex) and whilst the public draw the line on child pornography (thank goodness), church and business remain distinctly separate entities.
Any Aussies reading this: correct me if I'm wrong. This is my impression living here...

The function of a soldier is to kill people. If an officer gives an order to a soldier to shot at children then the soldier will kill the children, after all this is his duty and he is following and applying the rules.
Something wrong?......

Quote - *Rendo makes the rules: the Mods have to enforce those rules.

*Rendo makes the rules and the Mods interpret the rules. Since I haven't seen any nudity tags on pictures of apes (which are humanoid in their proportions) I have to assume that someone lost his mind in this instance.  *

Yes, to their defence it might be hard to follow the rules, a horse or a cat is an animal, a centaur or furry catgirl is obviously not, however this alien is not really humanoid, more like a carton character who run into someone was mechanically thinking creature who walk on two legs=humanoid and nudity rules apply. Behind a nudity tagged picture of an alien I would except to se something like a Klingon or Na'vi not a cartoon character.

Quote - If they have problems with your images, than they should throw me out too... because some of my previews contain straight up nekked poser models

I shure will miss you around here...

The images which would have been flagged are from prior to the new thumbnail policy and are grandfathered in, see link:
ATTENTION: EFFECTIVE JANUARY 24, 2007, New Thumbnail Policy  

Quote - *Rendo makes the rules: the Mods have to enforce those rules.

*Rendo makes the rules and the Mods interpret the rules. Since I haven't seen any nudity tags on pictures of apes (which are humanoid in their proportions) I have to assume that someone lost his mind in this instance. 

All animals are exempt...apes are mammalian but fully furred and generally not posed doing things that a 'humanoid' would.. ...*

Walther,

I am sorry to see you go, though we'll catch up on other forums. I've pretty much written Rendo off, too. While I still lurk here, I've quit commenting much as the hateful rhetoric has become too tiring to defend.

Bobby,

I really can't believe you're actually wasting time defending this idiocy. Have you even looked at Wabe's pictures?

I guess my gallery is next with all the nakid aliens, androids and other humanoid creatures with no clothes on. Just go see for yourselves! The first page of my gallery has at least three images that will run afoul of this nonsense!

What did I write about discussing with moderators?

Renderosity sells clothes.  You were told to clothe your Aliens.  Makes perfect cents.

Say goodbye to my gallery here as well. God forbid Fema Su or the Sixus Aliens should go about without clothes on. There's really no point in arguing with TPTB over it. I've just removed my whole gallery. Nude statues are allowed, but not nude aliens. Nude Cyborgs ok if the moderators think so. Oh and I guess Ultraman's silver skin doesn't count for nudity because he's got red stripes on him. Whatever. It's not the no nudity policy mind you, it's the moderators intrepretation of what constitutes nudity that I have issues with. Take that however you like it.

It doesn't matter, life is life. Some will be remembered as artists, some others will be remembered as idiots.

Maybe we need a new RenderosityFree4Artists.com :sneaky:

Mazak

Diversify.  Your portfolio shouldn't have just one gallery site in it.

Bobby
you and most of the other mods are nice folks :) You know I don't have it in for ya.
But this IS ridiculous, as I posted in other thread, it's pure Kafka: farcical bureacracy gone too far.
Once folk get involved in such positions of authority, they have to over justify their positions and find it very hard to retreat from a position of repsonsibility (if they have any gumption/decency, since they care), which puts an onus on them, and thus, they tend to over do things, it's inevitable (hey I'm Human too :p).

If you were looking at this from the outside, you'd see the ludicrous nature of it all, and why this is eroding Rendo. Just censoring the discussions won't stop it, it just accelerates the rot as that's seen as repression...
there has ot be common sense, you cannot have absolute hard rules, with no lee way, you know :)

I wasn't going to get involved with this "discussion" but some of the stuff I'm reading gives me little option than to have my say on the matter..
This may get me in hot water but what the hell..

1) Wabe was asked politely by me to provide new THUMBNAILS for some of his images because the thumbnails broke the rules on "nudity in thumbs"

2) Wabe was NOT asked to remove his images, as nudity is allowed in the galleries.

3) Because he didn't want to comply with my request in [1] above, the images in question were put in holding as all images in contravention of the thumbnail guidlines are.
In this he was not treated any differently to anyone else.

4) The rules are there, whether we agree with them or not, if we signed up for an account here, it means we accept them, even if we might not agree with some of them. In so doing we agree to abide by those rules.

5) If people really don't like the rules in a place, they always have an option to "not be there", this is a basic freedom we all enjoy

At the end of the day, Renderosity is owned by a group of people who have the final say on how it's run and what rules they want to apply, to argue about it isn't constructive and there are correct channels to go through if you don't agree with a rule or you would like to see a change somewhere, this would be the right way to go about it. These people are not monsters, they are more than capable of discussion and listening to poeple, and yes I have known them to change things if the points given are right and correct and done in a proper way.

I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm putting my point across as the Vue coordinator, a job I took on for the good of the Community when the Vue forum was rudderless without a skipper. Sure I've made mistakes along the way, I've also done some good I believe. This particular issue was dealt with correctly in accordance with the rules we all agreed to abide by..

Nudity in thumbs - I still ask what nudity. Is nudity possible for non human creatures? Obviously.

And regarding the order. The images were taken out before I had ANY chance to look at them again. So no chance to exchange thumbnails, even when I directly told everybody I am not going to.

Funny enough ,there is still a Bong image in my gallery - with thumbnail and without clothes - while Bong images from other artists were taken out. Go and look at it quickly, it will disappear, I am sure.

I am not arguing with the people that have the power at Renderosity - I understand it is a private site with their own rules. They can do what they they want - and whenever - what they obviously do. What is right for some does not mean it is right for others. They don't explain more than repeating the same sentence again and again. I really would love to hear where there is any nude part on creatures without private parts.

I would love to meet the majority I was told has has problems with my images - but nobody is brave enough to tell me what the problem is. I am sure they will refer to some, deep deep in a valley somewhere in the Himalaya or elsewhere, that may have problems. But this is only a guess, nobody was able to explain me anything so far.

However, I am happy about my decision. When I read the words from the officials in this thread I am even more happy about it.

And thanks again to all that participated in this thread and elsewhere. Hope to meet you all in other forums, I will be around.

Something I forgot - and can not ask in the thread that Siverblade (thanks a lot to that James) has started because it is locked now.

Can anybody tell me why the TOS are not relevant for the Marketplace? Bong and his friends are there totally naked. There is even a sperm fully displayed (naked) without warning. Gives it all a bit a bad taste to be honest. Now be brave Renderosity - apply your rules as well when money is involved.

Last - a friend told me that. How about flagging all our images with nudity and violence? I am curious what Renderosity will do then. Okay, not for me, I stand to my decision. No more images for Renderosity.

*And regarding the order. The images were taken out before I had ANY chance to look at them again. So no chance to exchange thumbnails, even when I directly told everybody I am not going to.

Ok I said I wasn't going to argue, but neither will I stand silent when the actual dialogue that took place is misrepresented..
You sent me an e-mail stating in no uncertain terms that you would not act on my request and I still have that e-mail.....it was only after I had that mail that your images were put on hold..!

However the rules that we agreed to when we became members here stop me from posting that e-mail or I will also fall foul of the site mods, yes even we can be pulled up for TOS violations..

I guess it's up to the rest of you who you choose to believe, and this is my last comment on the situation..

Should we really publish our whole email exchange? I am sure some would like to see that!

I haven't published anything Wabe, you misrepresented what was said, I replied.

If you wish to post the entire exchange feel free, I have nothing to hide and nothing to feel ashamed of in what I said to you.
I have said nothing in my two posts to date that isn't factual.

Quote - 5) If people really don't like the rules in a place, they always have an option to "not be there", this is a basic freedom we all enjoy

I don't know about the others, but personally I always feel warm and fuzzy when somebody tells me to fuck off.

Bye...

Is that really what I said Alex!!??
No it wasn't, I said we all have an option, a freedom to do as we please..

In my eyes a 3D graphic file/model (*3DS, *MAX etc) cannot contain nudity...it's only splines, vertices and 3D virtual surfaces with texture... unlike a REAL, living photomodel/person.
It's a huuuge difference between a lifeless "naked" 3D model and a REAL one...imho. 

And freedom to remain CIVIL, please :)

jeesh I cuss like a trooper, Alex, I could make your hair turn blue, lol
but I ain't mad at any person here. This is just a good example of how people always take things ot extreme, even when they mean no harm.
When they do mean harm then you really are in a world of hurt...sigh
I am annoyed that folk have let it get to this point that good folk are driven off.

"The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions"
applies as much to me as anyone and this entire episode. learn that lesson, folks!

The Site has a TOS, which IS very much influenced by the laws of the State it's hosted in, and it's prejudices.
Now, the mods have to uphold the TOS, and since most of 'em are decent folk, as I said above, this means they have to uphold the "law" even if it's wrong, they have to be seen to be scrupulously fair, no favourites but no abuse either. Which isn't easy, it's a difficult thing.

But that brings up problems because not all laws are "just" or "best thing for the society"
The inflexibility always ends up biting you in the ass.
The mods are defencive because they care, they care about their conduct/site etc. If they didn't care they'd be nasty
they are not nasty,
But since they care..they are passionate, they DEFEND what they care about, which leads ot myopia, as in defence, you have to "pony up", to weaken is to fail.
it's a Human trait, you can read up the psychology if you want.

really we should all sit down around some beers at a beach and shoot the breeze about this and work it out sensibly. :)

this stuff is NOT doign Rendo any favours, it KEEPS cropping up. It got worse because, like it or not, because religion and politics influence US laws, which affect the TOS which has to legally comply with those. and since Fundamentalist religion across the globe has been on the rise for the last 30 years, it affects us too. So, what if thosese extremists gain more political ground? Think about it a minute, and check what kooky, selfish, biggoted crap they have actually tried passing though state laws in past 3 decades.
Yeah...scary!

And for the record, I believe in "God", but I sure dont' believe in "religion".
Anything that can use supernovas to build us, is pretty damn stupid to pss off by having the damn gall to use it as an excuse for every damn dumb ass thing we've ever done in the last 5+ millenia! ;)
And God, whatever you are, thank you for making b*bies and redheads! :thumbupboth:

GOOD GRIEF!!! I've lived in the "Bible Belt" all my life and I've never under any circumstances have I suddenly took leave of my senses and declared "Jethro, look at them there nekkid aliens. Ain't that offensive?" I have followed these aliens from their first appearance until now and I have loved every one of them! I appreciated the wit and humor. It's a shame to see that things have gone this far astray.

I hate to see you leave Walther, but I understand why you have made the choice. I don't fit in well on most forums but I hope I can still find you at one of them. Thank you for so many years of your wonderful aliens!! 

Also, I didn't include the Darcassians because I don't own them. Are they even still available anywhere?

 oh no.  Don't go.  there are still nice things to do here. I hardly ever even look at the galleries actually, and I only upload to them once in a blue moon.  They are not the main thing here really.  Don't get cross about the silly rules.  What does it really matter?
Love esther

Gandhi once said:
"To disobey a law is a crime against the government.
  to obey an unjust law is a crime against humanity"

Every one is responsible, who makes the law and who enforces the law.
Take a look at telemarketing with their abusive, immoral, offensive and lack of respect phone calls.
Are these guys who make these calls innocent and good people just because they are only employees doing their job? No! they are not innocent, they are as guilty as the company that force them to do this.
If a company for which I work want that I do things that I consider, illegal, unlawful or unjust I will simple not do it, they can fire me, but I shall not do, even the case I can quit by myself.

The other case is when the law is not so wrong, but the person that enforces the law thinks that he is the Law. He interprets and enforce his own personal vision of the law and not what is the law itself.
This is common to happen with police and when s**t happens all the police runs to cover, plant and hide all the mess, protecting one each other.

And We, the artists, as Bush said "If you don't like leave the country", we as Obama said "Yes we can" we do it, the world is a big and a nice place.....