Bluecho, she looks great.

Quote - ok no problem I just imported into max as a single group and everything welded fine but that 1 spot. which is really no biggy but thought would point it out. hell I cant even figure out how to find anything in poser. I just do the runtime copy and figure it all goes where it is supposed to but I get clothes and inj and rems in my pose thing and I cant even find those vamp teeth I put in. I would love to clean this crap up but dont even have the first idea on how to start lol.

they need one for figures and poses etc then another menu for morphs and one for clothes  added too. I been spending the morning trying to find tutorials on how to organize your crap.

after I spent time in line to get my ozzy ozbourne with slash opening tickets )))

I gave up on their library system awhile back, especially annoyed by the problem where they alphabetize the upper-case and lower-case letters separately.  I used Advanced Library for awhile, then P3DO Explorer.  (I still use Explorer Pro's Librarian function to find files with broken links.)

These days, I use PzDB from Rocketship Software.  It is a database program that scans your runtimes and self-organizes to some extent.  Unfortunately, it's not available for our friends with Macintosh computers.  :-(

Now, I don't have to remember WHERE an item is so long as I can remember its name, or a keyword to find it with.

Quote - > Quote - It seems you all are stuck in strick rules Vicky mode.

Antonia's open sorce more or less ,does not have strick rules.

It's hard for me to go from 3D mode to Comic mode.
So I get the difficulty of changing modes.

You could just morph Antonia body to a body suit.
Sence Antonia not boged down buy strick rules ,Is there realy a need for a separated body siut ?

If you have Zbrush seems you would have all the breast morphs and any other morphs ya would ever need.

For those who have Zbrush or who know how to create good body morphs i agree, life is sweet. But many of us who don't own Zbrush or who have struggled with learning how to create morphs without success, life sucks when body morphs aren't incorporated into a figure...commercial or opensource.
The more there is available for a figure the more fun will be the posing/rendering experience for the rest of us consumers.
There are times when an extra Cr2 (body Suit?) are just what was needed. There are times when there just isn't enough resource memory for an extra Cr2 so being able to use the zones on the figure and the body morphs to colorize texture her and morph the body to look like she is wearing a body suit are even better. The best case scenario in my opinion is offering both and let us decide how we will use the resource.

The rules for Vicki seem to me to be the same rules that have applied to all figures since poser4. It has worked as a baseline target of conformity why not continue? It is what ODf has done within those confines of conformity that will make characters like Antonio SHINE!....or die....:)

Zbrush and or "FREE" Blender.
Has a lot of killer suport .
Tutorils ,helpful Users ,If you stick with it your master morphs and every thing else in time.

Antonai Shines
Open sorce Antonai , Blender ,Gimp ect ect can't die.

I am playing with breast morphs with the putty tool from Poser.
It is for V4 right now but if it works, I'll try it on Antonia.
I know there are tons of morphs out for V4 but I just wanted to see if I could do it.

That putty tool is really neat when you get the hang of it. :)

I am pretty good with zbrush but have no idea on how to make a morph lol. I just pull the body into zbrush and start sculpting muscles and wrinkles and different faces then export as an obj file or a displacement map,and texure map. gotta love playing with 9 million polys

Joe

I have no idea how to make a morph from zbrush.
More than likely you have to export as a morph target first, then import to Poser to finish making a morph.

proflooney,

If you are going to morph the whole body, might it be better to use a copy of Antonia's base obj file (Antonia-125.obj), rather than exporting the geometry from within Poser?

naw I pose in poser then export the OBJ still get the same nice geometry by the time I pull it into max then into zbrush. dunno how to do morphs I just think its easier posing in poser first before doing my sculpting. I just wished I could make the gear I want for her. I have various ideas of what I want but its rough for me to try and make good fitting outfits that dont shrink when I subdivide them for detailing to create maps for them lol

Joe

ok after playing with her for a while I come up with 1 complaint which is pretty good considering what I put her through to test her out for my needs.

Her hand rigging needs redone. mainly the thumb and pinky. their bones arent correct and so you cant properly pose them very easily. they twist when they should bend and the thumbs are bending in the wrong places.

thats the only problems I have come across after many hours of posing and reposing her

Joe

I have something interesting to share.  It may be a concern of the clothing development of Antonia.  During my search about the news of Miki3, I saw a posting in a Japanese 3D forum at http://www.forum3d.net/bbs/index.php?topic=820.msg8715#msg8715.  The first paragraph simply passes the same message at http://poser.smithmicro.com/miki.html, i.e., "Currently, we’re incorporating geometry level improvements to her elbows, shoulders, knees and hips that will lead to further tweaks on the rigging of those areas. Additionally, as these changes would impact items built for Miki 3, we’ve asked that those creating garments for her pause for the time being so we can build a better figure." Of course, in the Smithmicro's message, there is nothing about Antonia.  In that Japanese message, it hints that the "imporvements" are aimed at making sure that Miki 3 can match or exceed what Antonia can do.  Odf really did a great job!!!  Then, I saw my name and Antonia Beach Volleyball.  In short, that paragraph pointed out that it requires better or higher skill and technology in order to create close-fitting clothing figure that can follow the movements.  It hints that it is the reason of Smithmicro asking the "partner artist" to pause the clothing development.

I think the author of that message read the messages about Antonia here.  That Japanese message told me why I can't do what I aimed at.  It is because I'm an amateur and I don't have the proper skill and technology.  Maybe, keep making JCM is not the solution.  I think I need to find out what "skill and technology" can make it happens.

Quote - ok after playing with her for a while I come up with 1 complaint which is pretty good considering what I put her through to test her out for my needs.

Her hand rigging needs redone. mainly the thumb and pinky. their bones arent correct and so you cant properly pose them very easily. they twist when they should bend and the thumbs are bending in the wrong places.

thats the only problems I have come across after many hours of posing and reposing her

Joe

Well, I hate to disagree, but I must. I think Antonia poses rather well. I spent one entire weekend not only making poses for her figure, but for her hands as well. There's a link somewhere in this thread for both.

Quote - I am pretty good with zbrush but have no idea on how to make a morph lol. I just pull the body into zbrush and start sculpting muscles and wrinkles and different faces then export as an obj file or a displacement map,and texure map. gotta love playing with 9 million polys

Joe

Sorry if this is OT but I am curious here.

Once you brush the model and texture it you say you export it as an obj file but it isn't poseable anymore in Poser is it?

What I would like to now is how you do all you did in Zbrush and then get the adjusted resculpted figure back into Poser to work like a regular Poser figure? Or do you mean when you say exporting as obj file that yu can then apply the morphs or adjusrtments back to the original Poser figure in Poser?

thats what I was meaning shante I dont know how to do the morph thing from zbrush to poser so I pose it the way I want in poser then bring it into zbrush then use it in max where I rig it and can add the textures etc. to me poser is just an easy way to get a base as I dont care for the rendering etc they dont look realistic to me but thats just my opinion.

Joe

I am building a prop for her. Better than the corny suit i tried making her.

Just posting to leave a book mark. The wings in this post are the "Pixie Wings freebie" by pjz99 (aka FleshForge). Not conformed, but parented to the chest.

Looking better and better.... took some time off of 3D (about 4 months) and had to ask for the link to Antonia so I can start getting my notifications again! 

I lost this thread completely. Real life got overly complicated for a while, and I got insanely busy. It's still overly busy, but I'm back for a little while.

I have a question for Cage, if he's still about. Would that TDMT python work on more than just Antonia? I completely forgot all about it except is exists. Helpful memory power.:blink: :laugh:

Quote - I have a question for Cage, if he's still about. Would that TDMT python work on more than just Antonia? I completely forgot all about it except is exists. Helpful memory power.:blink: :laugh:

Theoretically it can work on any two 3D objects, although I've been using it mainly for faces.  The main hurdle when comparing any two objects in preparation for morph transfer is that both objects need to have shapes which are as similar to one another as possible.  Beyond that, there can be issues when transferring from a lower-resolution mesh to a higher-resolution one, and areas like eyelashes can be difficult.

If you have something specific in mind, PM me and I'll see if I can help.  I don't want to take odf's thread off-topic. 

Okey-dokey! Check your mail.

First off, I wanna say thanks for this great figure! :-)

On the subject of morphing and ZBrush and Poser, it works great for Antonia, especially with Poser Pro 2010 and being able to load full body morphs.

The screenshot here is a total body makeover sculpt I'm working on - probably one of many more to come. Still a WIP, but I tested the morph so far as an obj export and it loads onto her into Poser beautifully in one shot.

She's a little thinner, a little more chiseled in the face, less pronounced muscular features... at least when I'm finished with this one that's the plan. ;-)

So you say you need clothes for her? I can do clothes, what do you guys need? I just don't know how to rig anything in Poser, so somebody would have to do that, but I can make clothing objects that fit perfectly easily enough.

Where do the textures come from? The zip file I downloaded only had the figure.

Thanks again. :-)

Hi;

Check her free site by clicking the banner at the bottom of my post, pleanty of stuff there. :)

Coolness and thanks!

I just downloaded Antonia to play with, and I'm quite impressed! I really loved that her default body was not as, ahem, "top-heavy" as many default female models are. The naming on her joint bending controls threw me for a bit because it's not what I'm used to in Poser figures, but after a few minutes I got used to it.

I'm in the process of making a tank top and yoga pants for her, and I'll put them on her site when I finish them.

Antonia is without a doubt, a great figure.

*thats what I was meaning shante I dont know how to do the morph thing from zbrush to poser so I pose it the way I want in poser then bring it into zbrush then use it in max where I rig it and can add the textures etc. *

In fact this it not very complicated. Follow these easy steps:

• Load Antonia's obj file directly into Zbrush (from Poser's geometry folder), do not export it, Poser tends to do weird things when exporting.
• Sculpt the mesh as desired and export the result under a new name
• Import the sculpted object into Poser (new blank scene), do not check anything in the import options dialogue
• Bring up your Grouping tool and click "Spawn Props" whith your sculpted Antonia-Object selected
• Close the grouping tool
• Now you have one prop for each bodypart and the complete object that you may want to delete for a better oversight.
• Export all desired bodyparts (the one you've sculpted) one by one. In the export dialogue check "Weld body part seams" and "As morph target"
• You may want to delete each part you've already exported for a better oversight
• When you are finished create a new scene and load the basic Antonia character
• choose each bodypart you want to have your morphs in and load in the matching morph by clicking on  "Load morph target"
• set all your morphs to 1
• You are done or you can
• Click create "Create full body morph" in the menue, set all single morphs back to 0 and the new full body morph to 1
• If desired save your new character to the library with "Use binary morph targets" enabled. This will save your morphs in a pmd-file

SF, thanks for that explaination.

Someday I may just try sculpting some morphs. :)

The thing is though, it will need someone to poserize it. I don't know how to make conforming clothes and I can't keep the Setup Room in Poser Pro 2010 from crashing long enough to figure out. ;-)

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to group it for Antonia? I'm assuming the best idea would be to make poly groups that stay as close as possible to the actual geometry of Antonia, but I've never made clothing for a character for use in Poser.

Unfortunately I have been defeated by the rigging process in my attempt to make clothes for Antonia :( When she is finished I hope her creators will contact PhilC about providing support for her in Wardrobe Wizard/Clothing Creator. It will make creating content for her much easier!

Quote - thats what I was meaning shante I dont know how to do the morph thing from zbrush to poser so I pose it the way I want in poser then bring it into zbrush then use it in max where I rig it and can add the textures etc.

What SaintFox discribed in a previous post is a quit worable method, but (if you are on a PC) you can automate the process somewhat. The free application "Pozers Little Helper" (PLH) can take a morphed full body obj file and make INJ/REM files directly from that obj. PLH is not the most intuitive application around, and there is a bit of a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it is easy to make INJ files for the full body. To run PLH you also need to have the "Richtx32.ocx" and "comdlg32.ocx" installed on your slstem, these can be downloaded from the same site.

Quote - The thing is though, it will need someone to poserize it. I don't know how to make conforming clothes and I can't keep the Setup Room in Poser Pro 2010 from crashing long enough to figure out. ;-)

I'm willing to have a go at turning it into a conforming figure, if you like. I'm no expert at that, so if someone else wants to have a go, feel free to jump in.

I don't expect actually making it conforming would be that hard (famous last words), so long as the topology at the joints is reasonably compatible with Antonia's topology. A bigger problem might be the JCM (joint controlled morphs) in the collars. I'm willing to have a crack at that, but it may be beyond my capabilities.

Attached Link: How many people would like to see more dynamic clothes?

BionicRooster is planning to make some dynamic clothes for Antonia (after I twisted his arm just a little). 

Quote - A bigger problem might be the JCM (joint controlled morphs) in the collars. I'm willing to have a crack at that, but it may be beyond my capabilities.

Morphing Clothes seems to do a fairly good job of transferring the joint morphs.  I got useable results out of MC for an early version of Amy_Amei's bikini, although the more precise JCMs she developed later, by hand, were better.

Is it hard to make conforming clothing for Antonia? I don't understand why. (but then I have never made any conforming clothing.) 

Can someone explain what parts of the process make it so hard, and is it the morphs or the rigging? I would like to understand to see if there is something that might be done about it. I would think a dress might be difficult with no separate legs. For pants, or a top, do you have to follow the morphs exactly? Cant you just make the clothing so that it bends with the figure without poke through?

cheers.

I think the JCMs are the greater hurdle, in any conforming clothing for Antonia.  But if the polygon structure doesn't permit body part divisions which are similar enough to the Antonia base, rigging itself might be the greater problem.  If the polygon "flow" (that's "topology", right?) differs too greatly in the worst "crunch" zones for joints (front of thighs, say), that might interfere with the effectiveness of the rigging and make the JCMs more difficult.

So what we need then might be a basic (plain no frills) set of pants and shirt that people could work from. If there was a set of very plain clothing that was rigged and morphs installed that worked for Antonia, and people could use them as they wished to create their own clothing from, would that help? I may be missing something here.

Edit: Yes the flow is topology. More exactly how uniform the poly's are.

I think that is a fabulous idea.  I would add a loose (not skintight) bodysuit to the list, along with pants and a shirt.  But that may be because I have need of a loose bodysuit myself, at the moment.  :lol:

Regarding topology, I think you commented in the Brad thread that topology was the most important thing for the effectiveness of the joints in both Brad and Antonia.  Does that just pertain to the regularity of the polygons?  I had assumed that the way the polygons "curve" with the effect of the joint was the key point. 

I've got a gloved basesuit package for Apollo, Antonia and Athena.  They're just fairly simple meshes that might make for a good starting off point for people wanting to make things.  And before you think I'm trying to plug product here, this is actually a bit of an anti-plug.  They're in clearance right now, as soon as they move through that process and get dropped from the store I'll release them as freebies.

Quote - Unfortunately I have been defeated by the rigging process in my attempt to make clothes for Antonia :( When she is finished I hope her creators will contact PhilC about providing support for her in Wardrobe Wizard/Clothing Creator. It will make creating content for her much easier!

PhilC has expressed interest in providing WW support and is basically just waiting for me to pronounce the figure as stable.

I guess I'll UV map it and put it in free stuff if anyone's interested. I'm going to work on a pair of long pants or shorts  next.

I'm not real familiar with designing around this whole conforming clothes thing, although I've been using Poser off and on since about 2000. Typically on the projects I work on we  make a character where the clothes are just part of the body and there's nothing underneath to worry about poking through. ;-)

Cage: Yes it's the edge loops in relation to the joint bend and the density in the bend spots.

joequick: They look good to me. I was putting a retopo obj together in 3D Coat, but if your suits can be used for clothing that might be easier/quicker.

Shecterman: Looking good.

You mention making the character clothing with nothing underneath, Cage and Les have come up with a way to do that in Poser, that I thought would be great for clothing. Geometry insertion, basically the clothing gets inserted into the scene and replaces the body parts and gets welded in. No poke through. I've played with the idea a bit and I think it will work good, with the insertion of changes in the falloff zones and JCM's to match.

cheers.

Quote - Shecterman: Looking good.

You mention making the character clothing with nothing underneath, Cage and Les have come up with a way to do that in Poser, that I thought would be great for clothing. Geometry insertion, basically the clothing gets inserted into the scene and replaces the body parts and gets welded in. No poke through. I've played with the idea a bit and I think it will work good, with the insertion of changes in the falloff zones and JCM's to match.

cheers.

Thank you. :-)

Geometry insertion sounds like a good idea. When you're modeling, rigging, animating, rendering - whatever - on a deadline, everything that saves time is a plus, so there's no point in having geometry you don't need like a body underneath clothing. Unless of course the clothing is see-through, but even there you'd only use what you need.

I know that it's not very common to have Poser figures with no nekkid bodies under what little clothing many of them wear for their renders though. ;-)

And there doesn't seem to be much along the lines of options such as you're suggesting, but that would be very cool. Would it be possible to create some sort of script or plugin that automates a clothing replacement/geometry switching routine for any clothing that follows a specific set of guidelines, I wonder?

Or would it have to be manually set up for each and every new model? I'm thinking, if the joints and poly groups in a piece of clothing can be made conforming simply because they adhere to the standard of the figure in question in terms of bones and naming, then it would seem that a similar method could be created for geometry switching.

PLH is not the most intuitive application around...

LOL that's exactly why I rely on my old and tedious method (that is pretty fast once you've done it some times). PLH worked like a charm with the Generation 3 figures for me (V3 and her brothers and sisters) but once V4 came out it gave me headaches and I had to look for a different method that I can now do while half-sleeping and within 10-15 minutes - so there was no need for tools anymore.* *

But Lesbentley is right: Give it a try (and maybe a brief insight on the workflow if you come up with a result) but keep one thing I wrote in mind: Importing the mesh directly from the geometry folder to ZBrush may prevent you from some frustration!* *

This t-shirt is very nice and I like especially these folds so please do not "enhanceworsing" it by ironing them! I will definitly try to use it as a dynamic item as well regardless if you come up with a conforming version. Somehow it seems to me that it almost calls for the cloth room

Well Here is a fairly low poly even mesh, that might be use-able for clothing. Maybe a few more loops at the shoulder and buttock. I tried to keep it even and square for clothes, but I'm guessing on proper topology for clothing.

Does it look decent for clothing?

Thanks for the info, phantom. :-)

Yeah, that looks pretty good. Might have a problem with texture stretching in the chest area if anyone tries to Victoria-ize her though. ;-)

And thank you too, Saint Fox. :-)

I'm working on some other things I need to finish but as soon as I get a chance I'll UV map the t shirt and upload it to the free stuff here and then anyone can do whatever they want with it.

Quote - Well Here is a fairly low poly even mesh, that might be use-able for clothing. Maybe a few more loops at the shoulder and buttock. I tried to keep it even and square for clothes, but I'm guessing on proper topology for clothing.

Does it look decent for clothing?

Wow, you're fast!  :lol:

I think it looks good, but I'm no expert on topology.  I could see where the shoulder area could use a but more mesh density, maybe.  :thumbupboth:

Oh, this is getting better and better.

I like the blouse and the body suit.

We need some good hair props for her too, not just refits from other models.

I prefer hair props over dynamic hair, if possible. :)

BTW: We need an APG Beta Tester thread.

I would like my retail items to be ready when Toni hits the public downloads.

So I have one zipped and uploaded to my own Beta folder on my site for testers and I hope that is soon. :biggrin:

Quote - Would it be possible to create some sort of script or plugin that automates a clothing replacement/geometry switching routine for any clothing that follows a specific set of guidelines, I wonder?

Perhaps, but if this is ment to avoid poke-through for preexisting conformers, I can't see much advantage in such a method over just using a conformer, and hiding the parts you don't want to poke through. And if you build it from scratch, with the idea of geometry injection, you would not need any script.

One big problem. Think of a mini skirt. You need to keep the thighs, or at least part of the thighs, or the character will have a gap between the knees and the bottom of the skirt. Similar problems with wrists and ankles in shirts and trowsers, or a chest with a clevage in the clothing.