Quote - > Quote - > Quote - If you'll bother to look at the current 24 days of Christmas giveaway over there, you'll see that the hostility is being generated BY them. There's one day in 8 where Poser users have been invited to participate in the Christmas giveaway, with a product useable by Poser users. 

That pretty much says it all.  Poser users are not welcome, nor are they appreciated.

Nonsense.  DAZ has no control over what items are created for the "24 Days of Christmas."  That isn't done by DAZ; the items are created by individual vendors who make whatever they want to.  It just so happens that the first several items were for DAZ Studio.  So what?  There might be a string of ten items for Poser.  Would that mean that DS users aren't welcome?  No-- and neither does the string of DS items mean that Poser users aren't welcome.

On top of that, these are FREE items that vendors are making and giving away.  Nobody's forcing them to do it and they're not being paid to do it; they're doing it because they want to.  It is stupendously arrogant to criticize a free item because it doesn't work in your program of choice, or for any other "reason."  You are not "entitled" to the benefit of other people's time and work.  You are not "entitled" to get ANYthing for free.  And you are not "entitled" to complain if a free item isn't to your liking or doesn't work in your preferred program.

 

 

The problem is the MESSAGE you are delivering.  Here.  And.  There.

Thanks for reiterating my point.

There IS no "message."  Individual vendors make stuff to give away, and each one of them makes whatever he wants to, for whichever program he wants to make it for.  There are vendors who work only with Poser; there are vendors who work only with DS; there are vendors who work with both.  Should a DS vendor be told that he can't give away a gift because it's "only for DS"?  Should a Poser vendor be told that he can't give a gift because it's "only for Poser"?

Guys, I REALLY am serious.  Any further responses to arguments in this thread WILL be deleted.  Period.  I don't care who you are, or how nicely you're responding.  Let Rand do his job, please.

Quote - Just one little question ...

Poser community is enormous, the last version of poser is able to very realistic renders ( when people want work on it ), and able to use weightmap, more realistic bending ...

So why Genesis character is only for daz user, knowing that ? Creating the same figure for the two world is "plus" for you, no ?

 

(Sorry for my english, french ;) )

We chose to diverge from the Poser methodology because it did not allow us to evolve our product in the ways we dreamed about. Please realize that Genesis didn't happen overnight, it was in development for two years. At the time, there was no indication that Poser would ever utilize weightmaping or other key parts of the technology that we knew we would want. We wanted toincorperate industry standards... A single skin mesh, weightmaping, morph projection and more.  Our only solution was to force the evolution of figure development by playing a heavy hand. It wasn't until recently that we even knew what SM had in mind for this latest version of Poser and we didnt get our hands on a beta copy for review until a lot later than you would expect.

Since then, the lines of communication and cooperation between DAZ 3D and SM have greatly improved and we are all working on our compatibility issues together. This does guarantee a solution to the genesis issue, but please know that we are all working toward it as best we can.

Its not just poser either. We had to work hard to get genesis working in our own Carrara, which it will be in 8.5 and there are initiatives to get it into Maya and other 3D platforms that will allow us to cater to a wider market.

in the end, we are confident and hopeful that the development of the Genesis platform will raise the standards of this segment of the industry for everyone. 

As a long time member of the Rederosity Bryce Forum I would just like to point out that the very first Item given away in the Daz PA christmas giveaway was a Bryce item. 

There are actually other apps as well as Poser and DS, and I for one was grateful to have at least one item in the 24 days giveaway that I, as a Brycer, could use.

Quote - Within that limitation, however, you should feel free to ask me anything you like.
Contrary to popular belief, DAZ 3D greatly values its Poser customers. We have been family for a very long time and I, for one, would like to start doing things to make that relationship all it can be.

DAZ_Rand, regarding the relationship:

1. Are the staff at Daz aware that the forums at Daz 3D are an extension of the store and what happens in the forums directly influences the relationship Daz has with its customers?

2. Does the staff realise that harsh and unjust treatment of customers in the forum does not make them happy and/or likely to spend in the store?

3. The forums seem to have been very heavily moderated these last few months. Is this going to continue?

4. Are any measures going to be implemented to address the unjust ways customers have been treated and may be treated in the future?

5. Do the bosses at Daz realise that the behaviour of PAs also effects the relationship customers have with the people at Daz and how much people may spend in the store and has Daz maybe thought of sending them on some customer service training so they are better able to communicate with customers both in your own forums and in other forums?

I would be very interested in your answers to these questions as they directly address the relationship Daz has with its customers which seems to be your concern. Thank you.

Quote - Randall,

Once the CR2 Exporter is finished - Are there plans to provide poser format versions of the clothing, MAT files, Pose files and expressions of Genesis/V5 only products? Or do we have to go through an exporter for each of them?

 

I cannot answer this with any certainty, we are trying to get basic functionality in order first, then we will work on things like this.  What we would ultimately love is DAZ file format support inside of Poser, but that may or may not ever happen.  Until then it's going to be something of a workaround jury-rig kind of thing.

We are very committed to providing some measure of worthwhile functionality, but at this time, I can't tell you that it will ever be equal to the quality and ease of use you would have natively in DS4... keep your fingers crossed!

Quote - On top of that, these are FREE items that vendors are making and giving away.  Nobody's forcing them to do it and they're not being paid to do it; they're doing it because they want to.  It is stupendously arrogant to criticize a free item because it doesn't work in your program of choice, or for any other "reason."  You are not "entitled" to the benefit of other people's time and work.  You are not "entitled" to get ANYthing for free.  And you are not "entitled" to complain if a free item isn't to your liking or doesn't work in your preferred program.

I've gotta agree. I've never bitched about a freebie and I don't intend to start now ;). If I need something THAT bad, I'll make it :P.

Laurie

Quote - Randal. I know your meaning well but... Daz needs to look into the problems with the Staff. eg, the banning policy,

 

I was banned from your forums, on the very first offence, why? I blocked a moderators Email address. now lets be clear. I did not block his DAZ address. I blocked his PERSONAL address. I was told "Daz must be able to contace me by any means" and I was banned.

pardon? the fact this mod used his PERSONAL address to contact me for offical Daz business is not a security risk? how am I supposed to know he's a member of the daz staff? and thats not even counting the feelings of "who the hell do they think they are to tell me what I can or cannot do with my Email program?"

at that point Daz lost my trust and my custom.

roll n 2 years, and I watch a group being banned on a forum. no biggy. but when I see someone banned again for saying hello to someone (and the person that said hello got an email a few minuted later from a daz staff member asking if that was them!) what little trust I had dipped even further.

 

I know the Cult of daz will now attack me and tell me what I'm saying did'nt happen (sorry guys, it did and frankly shut up and rant elsewhere), but you Rand wanted honesty did'nt you?

I obviously cannot speak to this as I do not have firsthand knowledge of the situation. I am greatly interested, however, and I would appreciate a longer and more detailed explanation of your situation in email. Please contact me if you wish at randy@daz3d.com

I will say that our forums are ultimately a tool that should, in theory, improve our sales. We operate it in the hope that it will increase customer good will, provide a place of community and learning and a place to share... All with the intent of helping the company be more successful.

If it ceases to be those things, and becomes a negative to the company, there is no point in operating it. With that realization, we set about to decrease the negatives. As a part of that we hired new mods and CVs and right around the release of Poser, things started to get confrontational and the censorship started. Wrangling a messy beast like a forum is a terribly tricky process and even the best intentions can go awry. 

We just want it to be a nice place to go. We really don't mind dissent as long as its civilized and rational. We have banned Poser zealots AND DS zealots alike. Could we be better at it... Absolutely. This last couple of weeks we have had quite a few meetings about the forum situation and we have some ideas that may help it all work better.

One of the things on the table is a new social space that may come as a part of the new web store.

We are working with our mods to help them be more consistent and we hope to publish a clearer set of forum decorum guidelines so nobody will have to guess what is acceptable.

Quote - I'd say a couple of things:

1.  Oh, you noticed we were missing?  Way too little, way too late.

2.  You might want to wave the white flag without coming in here and labeling people "well meaning" liars.

 

I wouldn't say you are "missing" we still enjoy a very good level of business and it can't be all from people who only use DS.

I didn't call anyone a liar. But honestly thinking you know an answer does not actually mean you know the factual answer. There are a few DAZ friendly faces here that try their best to help out.  But they do not have all the inside knowledge and answers that a true employee like myself will have. That's all I meant.

Quote - I agree with all those who wish to keep it civil. And open.

Randal, you have - in Genesis - a relatively low-res mesh. Works a treat in DS4 but not all that optimally in Poser. Are you anticipating a higher-res mesh that will be generated during export from DS4? And would that high-res mesh support either the V4 morph set or the new V5 morph set?

The answer is not a higher Rez mesh, it's in SubD that the magic of Genesis happens. Even if we could bake the SubD in and get the figure into Poser with more detail it might actually bend and look worse.

There is a reason why genesis bends better than previous versions... It's because the bends are made then SubD is applied which is the idea behind Catmull-Clark.

It may be that we could create a figure that would be a "Posette 2" that was more detailed and poser weight mapped. But odds are good that it wouldn't do much more than V4... She was and is pretty great. We will pursue genesis functionality in Poser until we succeed or it becomes obvious that it will never succeed. If its the latter, I can assure you that we would dedicate resources toward an alternate solution... Like a new Poser-native product line.

Quote - With regard to the inability to use the Genesis figure to its full potential within Poser, and given that DAZ would presumably like Posers users to invest in the Genesis range of products, what outcome would DAZ like to see?

Specifically, what solution is preferred by DAZ and what does DAZ see as the required steps (and by whom) to achieve cross-platform compatibility?

I'd appreciate it if your answer could address specific issues, rather than something along the lines of 'SM needs to work with us and build support for Genesis'  - I'm looking for something more tangible.

Is there still some technology that either party needs to build into their code base? Is the file format an issue? Are there legal issues? That kind of thing.

We would like to expand the cross-platform support of Genesis and thereby support of our company. This will be accomplished through support of our file formats and infrastructure like Catmull-Clark subdivision that we cannot implement ourselves in other programs. This is why the notion of a good part of this being in SMs court came about. Just to let you know, everyone at SM has been a delight to work with and we are all moving ahead as best we can within the best interests of all involved.

The end result? Hopefully a fully integrated and native genesis inside Poser. Time will tell.

Quote - With regard to the inability to use the Genesis figure to its full potential within Poser, and given that DAZ would presumably like Posers users to invest in the Genesis range of products, what outcome would DAZ like to see?

Specifically, what solution is preferred by DAZ and what does DAZ see as the required steps (and by whom) to achieve cross-platform compatibility?

I'd appreciate it if your answer could address specific issues, rather than something along the lines of 'SM needs to work with us and build support for Genesis'  - I'm looking for something more tangible.

Is there still some technology that either party needs to build into their code base? Is the file format an issue? Are there legal issues? That kind of thing.

We would like to expand the cross-platform support of Genesis and thereby support of our company. This will be accomplished through support of our file formats and infrastructure like Catmull-Clark subdivision that we cannot implement ourselves in other programs. This is why the notion of a good part of this being in SMs court came about. Just to let you know, everyone at SM has been a delight to work with and we are all moving ahead as best we can within the best interests of all involved.

The end result? Hopefully a fully integrated and native genesis inside Poser. Time will tell.

Quote - maybe, some product support for Poser characters in the Daz store?

it would be a pleasant surprise to see a Daz original clothes item for James or Sydney.

I am personally in charge of what gets entered into our content production pipeline. If I believe a product can be financially successful, and can make a case for it, then it will get made. The numbers just do not support that a product like that would provide a return of investment needed to warrant the effort. 

I would be happy to have my mind changed, so feel free to show me where I'm wrong.

I am slightly uncomfortable talking about potential products for our store in this venue, however, I do not want to disrespect our host.

Randall, 

I have noticed one question that still has not been answered.

Why, in the past 3+ years since Mac went to intel processors and had zip capability are we seeing product installers that are using obsolete PowerPC even on releases that were released after the change? 

How difficult would it be to reset the downloads to zip only.

Second, I agree with the previous mention that the directory structure is atrotious, and please start monitoring and restricing the use of '!' in the directory structure.

Quote - Lzy724,

I agree... however, as William the Bloody has refered to, the OP has been marked "online now" for several hours and we're still waiting for the first response.

 

Sorry... I left computer logged in when I went to bed. :)

I don't keep normal hours... But I do sleep.

I have a couple of questions that I have found conflicting answers to, so let’s start with what I think is reality and go from there.

A: Genesis is the base figure of around 19000 polygons that uses SubD to upscale to a higher resolution much like standard definition TV is up scaled on a high definition TV.  Most cases do not look to bad but could lead to unexpected results like turning a cube into a sphere.

B: All the various characters are nothing more than morphs of said base figure, and that a morph is brought into DS4 and the character is created.  This character and the morphs are then exported in a CR2 that Poser can read.

C: Once the CR2 is loaded, then Poser can pose it, morph it, and generally use it like any other figure.  The major exceptions are no SubD and auto UV mapping.

If the above is correct then why can Daz not make a simple program to take in a morph (such as V5) and output the proper CR2 files?  The code already exists since DS4 has it built in and all you would have to do is strip all the functions (such as lighting, rendering, library, etc.) that I and probably lots of other Posers users do not need or want?  This way Daz only has to sell the morphs, not maintain two different product lines. 

If I am wrong about any of my assumptions please let me know.   Thanks.

Quote - > Quote - Dear Sir,

Why does content from the DAZ store use installers? Why can't I just unzip a runtime?

The installers: 

• are flaky;

• restrict control over where content is installed;

• may refuse installation if another product is "missing" - why? Why must I have, for example, V4 to install V4 content. I may, quite legitimately, wish to use the content with another figure;

• are too long winded - very annoying if one is reinstalling or rebuilding the runtime structure.

My compliments,

Marc

I have the same issue also, it's a headache with a Mac since they now use intel processors and powerpc is absolete. please correct your files.

As a Mac user myself I am continually plagued by this installer issue. All the installers are being recompiled as we speak and this issue will go away before too long.it is a long process as you can imagine so please bear with us.

Technically, the Uv mapping can be done too.

I'd love to see Genesis as a Poser-native thing. I understand there are some obstacles and that when smoothing (opr Sub-D) is done in the pipeline can drastically affect how well the figure bends... but if Genesis is "good enough" after being exported then IMHO it should be "good enough" for DAZ to provide directly as a Poser-compatible figure.

The exact limitations of Poser and/or Genesis seem hazy. I know that UV swapping isn't a limitation of Poser, and Sub-D after posing IS - but I'm unclear of EXACTLY - in simple man's terms - what other issues are.

Quote - There are a lot of locked threads in the DAZ commons on the same subject, reason given is usually that they've turned into DAZ vs Poser flamefests.  The majority of the DAZ users think poser should change to accommodate the genesis figure, okay, maybe some change should be made.  But mention that the first change that should be made is DAZ stop changing the interface with each new version, or that DAZ doesn't have updates, they only have new versions, and it's going to be locked. 

I really don't care, Randall, the first version of DS4, I could at least navigate the interface, but it wasn't a week before that changed, yet again.  At the insistense of the DAZ only users, and no regard to those that can't get their heads around the ever changing incomprehensible.  When the serial for that version expired, "so sad, too bad", learn the latest incarnation of the incomprehensible, and oh, by the way, no manual. 

When you're trying to attract users from another program, you're going to get a lot of comparisons between the two, and usually not in a complimentary manner.  When the full version prices of the two, say, DS4Pro and PP2012 are only a few dollars apart, to gain new users, you have to offer something more than a "New!  Improved!  Obsoletes all older!" to gain anything.  Like a manual that's somewhat readable and understandable.  'NUff said.

We do iterate and we do improve on a regular basis. I would count that as a feature. The interface has not changed much though. We changed the "my stuff" tab to "smart content" and brought in the dark side style as an option... But the interface has been pretty consistent for quite some time.

Quote - > Quote - LOL, I wouldnt want to reply in here either, its rather hostile.

If you'll bother to look at the current 24 days of Christmas giveaway over there, you'll see that the hostility is being generated BY them.

There's one day in 8 where Poser users have been invited to participate in the Christmas giveaway, with a product useable by Poser users. 

That pretty much says it all.  Poser users are not welcome, nor are they appreciated.

You can't come to a Poser forum with that being sponsored by your company and expect anything BUT hostility.

I get the message.  Works for me.  I suspect most Poser users are hearing the message loud and clear - bring your money but nothing else.

I prefer to do business at companies who appreciate more than my money.

I am sorry, but from my perspective, this is just inaccurate. It may be perceived that we don't like poser users because genesis doesn't work there. It also might make you feel that way because we are no longer creating generation 4 content... But we certainly accept it in the store and PAs are welcome to keep creating it. I am speaking with all the authority and honesty I can when I tell you that in meeting after meeting we try to figure out ways to better serve the poser community... But they have to be ways forward, not back.

To assume that we would purposefully mistreat a massive potential customer base is simply not logical. We have not done this and any indication otherwise is either out of our control (other customers) or an unintended misunderstanding. We quite simply adore Poser users and we are doing all we can to blaze a common trail forward.

Quote - > Quote - One of our main projects right now is to revamp the download and install experience. We realize it's a pain and we are fixing it as a high-priority

Might one ask HOW you are fixing it?

I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

Quote - I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

I cannot state how much I hate this compared to .zip files, as one of the mods would have to come in and bash me around the head :(

I want to ask two questions, because they are the main reason I prefer Poser over D|S:

-Will it be possible in the future to create your own dynamic clothes?

-Will it be possible to have dynamic hair in D|S?

best regards,

Bopperthijs

On which I like to add: for a reasonable price?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - One of our main projects right now is to revamp the download and install experience. We realize it's a pain and we are fixing it as a high-priority

Might one ask HOW you are fixing it?

I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

and how will this affect those of us that back-up installers and zips for safety?

if you implement that sort of crap like the app store thing, it will mean a total loss of my custom for content.

DAZ3D's insistance of going their own way with installers instead of zips ( which the rest of the content providers are very happy to use) has caused no end of problems for Mac AND PC users.

Quote - > Quote - Within that limitation, however, you should feel free to ask me anything you like.

Contrary to popular belief, DAZ 3D greatly values its Poser customers. We have been family for a very long time and I, for one, would like to start doing things to make that relationship all it can be.

DAZ_Rand, regarding the relationship:

1. Are the staff at Daz aware that the forums at Daz 3D are an extension of the store and what happens in the forums directly influences the relationship Daz has with its customers?

---Of course, but I would say that they are an extension of the company, not the store :)

1. Does the staff realise that harsh and unjust treatment of customers in the forum does not make them happy and/or likely to spend in the store?

Yes, but we have an extremely low tolerance for war waging and we are very concious about the image a new visitor to those forums might receive. To that end we will moderate to our advantage, but hopefully we can incorporate more concrete guidelines that are fairly implemented so that you will know ahead of time if you are doing something that will result in censorship.

1. The forums seem to have been very heavily moderated these last few months. Is this going to continue? 

---yes, see above. We will be training our mods to be a little more consistent and just, however.

1. Are any measures going to be implemented to address the unjust ways customers have been treated and may be treated in the future?

---If you have a specific grievance, and feel you got a raw deal, I will happily hear you out privately.

1. Do the bosses at Daz realise that the behaviour of PAs also effects the relationship customers have with the people at Daz and how much people may spend in the store and has Daz maybe thought of sending them on some customer service training so they are better able to communicate with customers both in your own forums and in other forums?

--- we have little control over PAs. Anyone can submit products. PAs do have their own section of the forums and they tend to keep most of the commentary there. Having said that, they will be expected to abide by forum decorum rules like everyone else. They even have a few extra rules that are specifically for them on top of it. If they come here and get out of line... Well that isn't anything we can help with.

 

I would be very interested in your answers to these questions as they directly address the relationship Daz has with its customers which seems to be your concern. Thank you.

Quote - Randall, 

I have noticed one question that still has not been answered.

Why, in the past 3+ years since Mac went to intel processors and had zip capability are we seeing product installers that are using obsolete PowerPC even on releases that were released after the change? 

How difficult would it be to reset the downloads to zip only.

Second, I agree with the previous mention that the directory structure is atrotious, and please start monitoring and restricing the use of '!' in the directory structure.

There is no excuse I can offer that would be good enough. We should have fixed the installers that were broken long ago. We don't use zip files because we have a desire for you to accept the TOS among other things. I know that people think its a joke and that pirates laugh at it... But copyrights, trademarks, patents and other protections are no different. We are just doing it by the rules and if a legal issue ever did come up, we would have done our part correctly.

Quote - It strikes me that there is a lot of misinformation being circulated here by people who mean well, but who may not necessarily have complete or accurate information. This misinformation can stir up emotions and sow the seeds of bitterness. ... We have been family for a very long time and I, for one, would like to start doing things to make that relationship all it can be.  

For one thing, stop talking in terms like the bolded text.  It is purely negative, and frankly it's terrible communication and sales technique.  Just plain old rudeness, really.

Thank you for answering my questions, Rand. It is much appreciated and I am pleased that certain issues are being addressed.

Quote - 4. Are any measures going to be implemented to address the unjust ways customers have been treated and may be treated in the future?

 

---If you have a specific grievance, and feel you got a raw deal, I will happily hear you out privately.

My experience is that this is just lip service and the way Daz staff treats people it does not agree with is just to ignore them and not to listen to their side of things unfortunately. Getting any fair answers from the staff at Daz has been impossible. What guarantees do you make that things will now be different?

Also, do you think it fair to ban people on your forum for things said in forums not connected to Daz when they have not had any warnings on the Daz forums, no evidence of anything they have done or said on the Daz forums has ever been produced and the only reason given is that Daz can ban anyone it wants? This does not give a good environment for good customer relationships which seems to be your worry.

Quote - There is no excuse I can offer that would be good enough. We should have fixed the installers that were broken long ago. We don't use zip files because we have a desire for you to accept the TOS among other things. I know that people think its a joke and that pirates laugh at it... But copyrights, trademarks, patents and other protections are no different. We are just doing it by the rules and if a legal issue ever did come up, we would have done our part correctly.

You have an opportunity to do this on the download page, during or directly after purchase; if someone is running the installer and they didn't obtain it from the download page, they've already broken your TOS anyway.

Quote - We don't use zip files because we have a desire for you to accept the TOS among other things. ... We are just doing it by the rules and if a legal issue ever did come up, we would have done our part correctly.

What TOS rule is this you refer to? Do you actually mean Terms of Service? I thought this is not applicable to purchased content.

Perhaps you mean EULA? Still, I am not aware that EULA for content must be enforced by content installers that require a click. Is this a government/legal rule you refer to?

Particularly for content purchased in an online store, at checkout time, is clicking on the "I agree to the EULA" during purchase not sufficient?

Does this mean other vendors who do simply include a copyright notice and a license agreement in the zip file are actually not protected?

Quote - One of our main projects right now is to revamp the download and install experience. We realize it's a pain and we are fixing it as a high-priority

Great news! (But you do realise that I may now hold off buying anything until it's fixed!)

Thank you for the prompt reply!

Quote - I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

You have to be kidding! I know you don't want to debate about it, and that's fair enough, but I'm going to tell you my opinion anyway haha!

A "download manager" is never, ever, going to be installed on any of my machines. I reject that level of intrusion totally.

If you want a click of confirmation of terms and conditions (however worthless that may ultimately be), make an installer with three options:

1. Default. Everything gets unpacked wherever you want.

2. Custom (for "advanced users" hahaha). Whatever I want gets unpacked wherever I want.

3. I reject all the blah blah blah... and exit installer.

It's not a major revolution, take a look at the professional audio software world. The plugins and audio libraries are far more expensive than any DAZ product. Installation is mostly easy, painless and safe, and the companies manage to protect all their bases and do OK.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

And for what it's worth, I don't care much about Genesis support in Poser. I think your other figures are fine, and what's more, they're now free, so as an absolute beginner I have to say thanks very much!

Quote - I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

So long as the option to just download files remains, with the autoinstall just being an option for those that want to use it, then I have no problem ("Choice is good"). If it's going to be this the only way of getting content from DAZ then it's unwelcome.

I feel the OP is really about advertising for Daz marketing innovations, that comes across as somewhat disagreeable.

My runtime is atleast 15 gbs of Daz content; at some point, the Daz store was attractive with friendly installers.  The thumbnails were bigger back then, iirc.

As someone who has no axe to grind with either Daz or Poser it is nice to see a thread where the aim appears to be an informed debate.

I owe a lot to Daz as it was that free program that got me hooked on 3D so many years ago and thus has given me a lot of pleasure over a number of years.  I used to buy a great deal from the Daz store and I do wish everyone there, every success.

There is of course an 'however' coming up, so however, I now find that I buy very little at Daz3D for example, so far this month I have spent $164 at Rendo and $4.29 at Daz3D.  That has been the pattern for the last year or so, and I am no longer a PC member at Daz but I am a Prime member at Rendo.  

So my question is 'Are there any plans to change the PC range at Daz3D'.  I do understand that the products offered at $1.99 and other offers are good value but I do think the PC content has become stale, it maybe great for new users but there appears to be little of interest for the longer term hobbist.

Finally I love V4 and continue to use her on an almost daily basis.  I was initially interested in Genesis but I have to say I have become sick to death of the whole sorry buisness that now do not look at any thread or product that includes Genesis or V5.  I do not blame Poser or Daz for that, but I am saddened by the way the certain members of the community have responded.  From a very personal point of view I am less interested in V5 working in Poser and more interested in an improved V4 but until I see something that improves on what I can do with my present V4 I will stick with what I know, and love. 

Misty, Rand is a DAZ employee, here answering questions that people have had over the years.  None of this is in violation with our policies here, and it is, in fact welcome, as it's much better to have information from the source than to hear it through some strange internet version of the "Telephone" game.

Quote - > Quote - We don't use zip files because we have a desire for you to accept the TOS among other things. ... We are just doing it by the rules and if a legal issue ever did come up, we would have done our part correctly.

 

What TOS rule is this you refer to? Do you actually mean Terms of Service? I thought this is not applicable to purchased content.

Perhaps you mean EULA? Still, I am not aware that EULA for content must be enforced by content installers that require a click. Is this a government/legal rule you refer to?

Particularly for content purchased in an online store, at checkout time, is clicking on the "I agree to the EULA" during purchase not sufficient?

Does this mean other vendors who do simply include a copyright notice and a license agreement in the zip file are actually not protected?

EXACTLY what I was thinking. The installers give me the ****'s.

Laurie

Quote - Misty, Rand is a DAZ employee, here answering questions that people have had over the years.  None of this is in violation with our policies here, and it is, in fact welcome, as it's much better to have information from the source than to hear it through some strange internet version of the "Telephone" game.

Thanks.

I avoid the rhetoric threads, usually, i like to read the advice topics.

If anyone thinks a download manager is a good idea, say "Aye". I don't put those on my machine and I'm not gonna start now. I don't even like programs running in the background. It's unmannerly and steals what few computer resources I've got. I quit cnet and Amazon music for the download managers actually. Even the Ninite installers drive me nuts. We won't even talk about Adobe for Air, Flash and Reader either.... There's just no reason in the world why I should have to install something extra to do something I've always done without them. Bah.

Laurie

Probably the single biggest thing DAZ could do to make Genesis more palatable to the average Poser user would be to package the figure and its extensions as stand-alone items, ready for Poser use upon being downloaded.  This approach of exporting from D|S is terrible and hackish, and I see no reason at all why you couldn't build the logic of the exporter into some kind of installer, with greatly reduced amount of work required and much-minimized opportunities to screw it up.

Yes, this diverges from the "give us ZIP files" line of request.  For something as complex as how Genesis extensions are, ZIP files may never be practical anyway (as with V4/M4 and ExP).

I think I've seen the light here...

We don't need Genesis or V5.  V4 is pretty much the be-all-end-all of what could be done for poser as it was at the time Daz3d decided to move forward with the Genesis project.  They wanted to edge out the software by being the first to introduce Weight Mapping.

I get that, don't you?  Poser is/was stagnant software and V4 was the best for it. 

If Daz were to give you a Poser ready "V5" it would be redundant because they've essentially moved on. 

But then here comes 9/2012 and now Poser is weight mapping too, but in a different way, perhaps, and there was no cross-talk between the companies because, presumably, too much competitive secrecy.

Daz feels, I think, and rightly so, that Genesis is the way to go, and therefore feels that it's up to Poser to integrate compatibility so that Genesis can work the way it's supposed to, rather than get endless spawned cr2's out of their program that do not bend well and ultimately might reflect badly on DazStudio, for those who don't/won't use it.

Meanwhile, Daz3d has no problems whatsoever working with it's brokering artists to sell Gen4 product.  The problem is, I suppose, that what else is left to release for V4?  The well runs dry, creatively, since it's all been done at this point.  Every once in a while, someone will stumble on to an idea that works, and they will sell it.  But it's just not as prolific as it used to be, and the returns are less on stuff that is ultimately redundant.

Daz3d...I stand behind all of this 100% if I understand it correctly.  I don't like DS very much, but I do like the Genesis concept and look foward to using Genesis in Poser someday, when I can do so the way Genesis was intended to work.  Meanwhile, I have V4 and V4 is pretty damned good.

Quote -
It's not a major revolution, take a look at the professional audio software world. The plugins and audio libraries are far more expensive than any DAZ product. Installation is mostly easy, painless and safe, and the companies manage to protect all their bases and do OK.

All I'm going to say about that is ilock.  Worst idea ever and I refuse to use any VST that only supports it

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - One of our main projects right now is to revamp the download and install experience. We realize it's a pain and we are fixing it as a high-priority

Might one ask HOW you are fixing it?

I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

Hello,

I think that is exactly the opposite of what people would want.

If you stick to the installers, a simple improvement would be to let them remember to install for Poser as the selected application, similar to the content path (currently they remember the runtime path, but fall back to "DAZ studio" every time. One is tempted to think that this is intentionally). Ideally I would like to see zip files, really! The tons of "program hasn't installed correctly" messages are really really annoying. 

I still buy a lot at DAZ (despite the installers), but if you switch to a "steam-like" content purchase option,  I won't buy such items.

Back to content, I see the development of Genesis from two sides. I welcome DAZ' initiative to create new technology (after all we don't want to stay at old technology all time) and competition drives innovation, which in the end is good for the customers, but of course the concern is that the interoperability of content is reduced more and more. I use Poser, Vue and Carrara. All 3 have different material systems. 2 of them support dynamic hair, but it's different. If now also the core figure diverge, there's not a lot left for a flexible workflow. I therefore hope for a workable good solution to have support for the full feature set of genesis in all my apps. Once that's there, Genesis will go into my shopping cart as well.

Best regards,

   Michael

Quote - > Quote - I can't reveal too much about it because it may still change substantially. But in a nutshell we will implement a download manager... Perhaps closer to steam or Mac app store. You won't have to think about what to DL or where to put it (outside of your designated preferences)it will just "work" I don't want to debate this too heavily just yet because it's still very much a work in progress and there isn't much I can tell you concretely. I will share more as I can.

 

I cannot state how much I hate this compared to .zip files, as one of the mods would have to come in and bash me around the head :(

We will never be distributing zip files as is done here on Rendo.  It just isnt the direction we are comfortable with.  We will, however, make something as easy to use as possible, our goal is to make download and intallation non-issues that are no longer an obstacle.

Not with a download manager. Never, ever on my computer. Can you think of anything different? Or give us a choice. I don't like them, but I'd rather have the installers than that. If the download manager is all I've got to choose from, I'm done buying anything. And I still do from time to time. I've left sites I've liked a lot less for the same thing.

Laurie

I have no problems at all with the installers, but I REALLY don't like the idea of a Steam-like manager. Purchases should always be downloadable and able to be backed up. I don't know what's apparently so wrong with the way the purchase and download system is now.

SnowS

Quote - I want to ask two questions, because they are the main reason I prefer Poser over D|S:

-Will it be possible in the future to create your own dynamic clothes?

-Will it be possible to have dynamic hair in D|S?

best regards,

Bopperthijs

 

On which I like to add: for a reasonable price?

In all honesty, these things are on our list of desired items for DS, but we are in a "feature lockdown" phase where we are trying to refine what we have instead of piling on more complexity.

Once we feel like we are on more sturdy ground on that issue we will begin again with new features.

Dynamic hair is more likely to get done first, as there has been talk of a Carrara Dynamic hair player plugin for Studio. (talk does not equal product :) ) Programmers do believe that we could pull it off but its all just a concept at this point.

Quote - I have no problems at all with the installers, but I REALLY don't like the idea of a Steam-like manager. Purchases should always be downloadable and able to be backed up. I don't know what's apparently so wrong with the way the purchase and download system is now.

 

SnowS

SnowSultan..you and I don't agree about much, but I think on this we are in complete agreement ;).

Laurie

same here,Laurie. not gonna have that sort of intrusion on my systems. besides, my working rig never goes online.

looks like no future purchases from DAZ3D for me, if they implement that sort of installation.

Installers will also need Poser ready content to install.

I haven't read every reply, but, is Daz recompiling it's older catalog with new installers? 

my eye hurts, so maybe it was a missimpression. 

i thought buying old content would be safe.