"But it could potentially open another market for vendors and freebie makers who might like to skin the GUI."

DAZ Studio's interface can be extremely customized with user-made icons, gradients and even custom widgets from what I can tell, but I don't know if we have all the tools to do it yet. Rob would know, but he's really busy. Still, tabs can be added to create "rooms" similar to Poser and you can make your own toolbars and menus. I'm hopng to write a tutorial fairly soon for users new to Studio.

"You've obviously got to know Antonia far better than you're letting on :-)"

Maybe, but just because Studio users may have tried her doesn't mean we're leaving Genesis for her.  ;)   She does appear to be a big step up from the SM figures though, and it's good that the community is working together on a single project like the old days.  :)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I'd say a couple of things:

1.  Oh, you noticed we were missing?  Way too little, way too late.

2.  You might want to wave the white flag without coming in here and labeling people "well meaning" liars.

 

I wouldn't say you are "missing" we still enjoy a very good level of business and it can't be all from people who only use DS.

I didn't call anyone a liar. But honestly thinking you know an answer does not actually mean you know the factual answer. There are a few DAZ friendly faces here that try their best to help out.  But they do not have all the inside knowledge and answers that a true employee like myself will have. That's all I meant.

 

So the head of DAZ marketing came here to be a "good-natured source of information"  If it wasn't affecting DAZ's bottom line, you wouldn't be here and we both know it.

---I am not the head of marketing, I am the head of Content Management, a Product Evangelist and the head of Content beta-testing. My being here really has little to do with our "bottom line" as you put it. I have regularly browsed these forums as a part of my job and I grew weary of the misinformation, so I thought I would help provide accurate information. I actually started doing this under my own inititive and without official orders telling me to do it. Im not here to convince you to frequent our store and im not really here to "convince" you of anything else. Im just here saying: "Hey... we dont have to fight lets talk."

From my viewpoint, Genesis is causing everyone to re-look their relationship with DAZ.  I know I have.  And my buying habits have adjusted accordingly.  And I am sure Rosity & RNDA have sent DAZ thank-you notes.

---Im not sure our sales figures or anyone else's will back up your theory. There is undoubtably uncertainty amongst the Poser Faithful and we would obviously like everyone to remain customers, and there is no question that the Poser community having more compatibility would increase our revenue.  But this "Rift" between us is being un-naturally perpetuated by invested elements on both sides and i weary of it.

My reevaluation includes the company's attitude toward me, the customer.  Your company is from my perspective, very contemptuous of it's customers.  You can be that way if you are Apple.  DAZ isn't Apple.  You have no reality distortion field.

I am buying less & less at DAZ & I want you to understand why, and possibly take it to a staff meeting.  Probably not, because god knows, DAZ doesn't make mistakes.

It isn't Genesis.  For me, that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

When I talk about being contemptuous of your customers, let me show you a pattern of conduct......

1a.  "We are working on the installers..."  Please.  Just stop.  DAZ has been telling customers that since at least 2005 that I am PERSONALLY aware of.  We both know that the company has no intention of changing the installer philosophy or fixing the old installers, so just stop already.  That is pretty contemptuous.

---I cant make you trust what I say in this short contact we have here. All I can tell you is that we are under new management and we are taking things like this very seriously now. The whole of the Engineering and Web teams are dedicating all resources at the moment to a complete overhaul of our store and creating a new download and install experience. We have a new team of employees writing metadata and updating product installers in preparation for the new system. Product managers and department heads are doubling up on their normal jobs to tackle documentation, education and New user experience. There is a hell of a lot going on here and its stuff that has needed to be done for a VERY long time. You dont have to believe... but it is true, nonetheless.

1b.  When someone from customer support tells me to buy a PC when I gripe about OS9 installers doesn't build any good will.  Just sayin'.....

If you use installers, why, oh why, can't you use one that FOLLOWS THE OS USER GUIDELINES that Apple & MicroSoft set.

---You are preaching to the choir. I have personally had problems with Mac installers and I work here. There is no excuse for why we didn't get to it earlier,  Its just a massive undertaking.  As I mentioned, above, we have an actual team of new workers doing only this.

Just for the record, we did use recommended installers, but with the change first from OS9 to OSX and then the more recent change to Lion, those standards simply changed. We were not the only software company affected by it, I have a stack of software that I cant use anymore.

2a.  DS4 - Why do you ask for feedback if you don't use any of it. Your beta folks told you they hated the new UI.  Did you make any changes? Nope. 

That is pretty contempuous.

---Not all the beta users "hated it" Many raved about it. I was still a civilian (non-employee) when I was first exposed to it and I loved it immediately. Your information is inaccurate.  As a DAZ 3D Manager who happens to be in charge of half of our beta testing I can tell you that we could not possibly take Beta feedback any more seriously. The problem is that not every issue that is discovered can be fixed, or at least not within the limits of the development timeline. Our issue has always been that we try to put too many features in and we get excited when we can offer more and more functionality.... this has often left us with a lot of stuff that only worked at 90% when we could have had less stuff that worked at 100%. This is one of the first issues identified and addressed by the new management and we have been doing our best to catch up for a good while now. We still have a long road ahead but its improving.

2b.  Documentation.  How is that Carrera 8 manual coming? Or the Bryce manual, Or the Hexagon manual.  Do you see a pattern here?  My reason for ignoring DS4 isn't the crappy UI, that is an added bonus; it is the fact that my time is valuable, and I don't have time to waste figuring things out through trial and error. 

---No argument from me or anyone else here. We know we need docs and we are actually writing them as our highest priority. I wasn't here for the promise of Carrara Docs so I cant speak to that... but I can speak to the current effort. You can monitor the docs as they are constructed daily at Http://docs.daz3d.com. Actually, they may not visibly change every day because a lot of it isn't visible to everyone while its worked on... but they are being worked on

No documentation = contempt.

---Actually, No Documentation = poor prioritization and lack of resources.... but we are on it.

2c.  Software as perpetual beta.  Go buy a copy of "The Mythical Man Month"  Make your software manager read it.  Adjust software development accordingly.  Avoid "cool".  Cool is bad.  Your programmers aren't that good.  Really, they aren't.  Reliablity is good.  DAZ should try it sometime. 

---He actually has that book... not kidding. Cool isnt bad. Cool is cool. Where would we be without cool? Cool and reliable are not mutually exclusive. DS4 is without doubt the LEAST buggy and most stable version of studio we have ever released. It is a provable fact. We have less bugs as a percentage of installed base than ever before in our history.

Releasing a half-finished product = contempt.

---Calling our product half finished is not very nice either... its at least 75% finished.  In all seriousness, DAZ Studio will never be "finished" we will continue to improve it whenever we can. If we can add something useful or fix a flaw, we will not hesitate to update the software. We are not in love with our distribution process and we are trying to fix it, but we will keep working to refine the platform.

As a side-note, nothing screams amature quite like releasing software without documentation.  Kinda difficult to incorporate it into work-flows without it.

Moving on to content.....

---Great. I am the Manager of Content. I will likely have much more complete information on this topic.

3a.  Making us wait 18 months or so for M4 after the release of V4.  Contempt.

---Why do you think that? Do we not have the freedom to create and sell what we please? Its a little harsh to call that contempt. We just released V5, what if we never make M5?, how is it not the choice of a business to make what it wishes? Is it contempt if McDonalds doesn't serve Lasagna? I am more than willing to cop to issues we suffer from at DAZ 3D, but you lost me on that one. 

3b.  After releasing M4 - No clothing content, but one of the first items was a tutu.  Really?  A tutu.  That wasn't funny.  That was giving the users the finger.  Someone should have been fired over that.

---There were people who found that funny... I wasn't around for this so I cant speak to why it was what it was, but I can tell you that M4 was well received, sold well, and a lot of people have that tutu. Ive seen it on the Genesis Freak a lot more often than I care to.

4.  Ask some old-timers about the swine-flu sales pitch.  Another idea that should have gotten someone fired.  Again, contempt.

--I heard about this. What can I say, people make mistakes. we aren't robots. I cant respond or defend as I really dont have all the facts on it, though.

Now for a quick dash over to the forums.....

5a.  Some of the biggest S&*$ stirrers on the DAZ forums have userids start with DAZ.  Sorry, but it had to be said.  They will start a thread and do a hit & run.

A suggestion.  Don't let anyone with a DAZ id respond to a heated thread without running it through a supervisor first.  A little sanity check wouldn't hurt.

5b.  Grow a thicker skin.  DAZ is supposed to be a business.  Whining about "negativity" makes DAZ sound like an emo teeanager that has been told to take out the trash.  Brick-bats come with the territory, & if DAZ can't handle it, perhaps the forums aren't a place for anyone with a DAZ at the beginning of their userid.  Notice that the only SM person that haunts forums is your counterpart - Mr. Cooper.  Everyone else stays far, far away.  Probably because they are busy making sure that their product is interoperatable with other 3d products & has documentation.  Just sayin'......

---The forums at DAZ 3D are different than these forums because this is a community marketplace... there is no responsible corporate entity. Do you really think SM employees aren't here? im sure they are but as this isn't "their" forum they dont identify. We go to the forums often to communicate with customers, see what people are saying and interact. Many of us do it on our own time at home to boot. Its not that DAZ 3D cant take the heat anyway... its that we dont believe most of our users want to deal with it.  We are acting on the behalf of the average joe who just wants to find out the best shader setting for the bumper of his 57 chevy and not get tied up in a tangled mass of Ugly.

5c.  Fanbois - Threat or menance?

Then there are your fanbois.  I would highly recommend that you get your PAs some customer service training.  As a minimum, "How to win friends & influcence enemies".  You have PAs whose attitudes on the forums cost you sales.  If they sell on DAZ, they reflect you.  Whether you like it or not.  So talk to them already.

---First off... can we stop spelling it with an "i" Ive always hated that.... but I digress. The PAs are not employees they have all the rights on our forums that anyone else does and we have no extra control over them just because they decided to submit a product. If they cause a ruckus, they will be asked to stop just like anyone else... unless its Stonemason... he can do whatever he wants. ;)

Now lets look at the website.  AAGGGHH!!! MY EYES!!!!!

6a.    If your customers tell you it causes migraines, YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK INTO IT. Telling paying customers "too bad" doesn't get them to come by more often.  Again, what was that word again?  Oh yeah, contempt.

---Eh... this is subjective. The old website had three color schemes and the forum still does, so you can pick one you like best in your personal options. The newer web design cant be changed... but what is it exactly that is garrish or Migrane inducing? It looks like a pretty standard web experience to me. The front page is too new to have options just yet, but we are replacing the entire store so perhaps the new one will be more agreeable to you.

If it is the color white you dont like, I can only suggest that you turn down the brightness on your monitor as there is a lot of white on the net. Actually now that I look at the page more closely... its a light gray. Maybe if you were more specific about what is hurting your eyes I could better respond. I am not aware of this customer migrane issue you mention and this is the first I have heard of it.

6b.  Artzone.  Enuff said.....

---ArtZone never panned out to what it was meant to be.  We own that.  There are new people with new ideas to replace it and I have faith that what grows from its ashes will be even better than the original concept.

And now a cautionary tale....

Once apon a time there was an gaming company called GDW.  In addition to many fine wargames, they made a Role Playing Game called TRAVELLER.  It was very, very successful. 

---I loved Traveller. I still play it on rare occasions when im around my high school cronies or at convention.

In the fullness of time, the people that worked at GDW moved away from the Traveller game system to a different gaming system that was based off another RPG they sold, Twilight 2000.  They decided that it would be easier for GDW to convert the Twilight 2000 rules set to Traveller.  That way, they would only have to maintain one set of rules.  The ungrateful customers would have none of it however.  They felt that if they wanted to play Twilight 2000, they would.  Well, GDW ignored their customers and released Traveller: The New Era.  They "vaulted" the old product & henceforth there would only be TNE.  Shortly thereafter GDW went out of business because, quite frankly TNE was a piece of crap (I was there - It is always bad when the product was referred to as the "New Error" - It is still called that by the way.)

20 years on people still play Classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, and a host of other game systems.  The TNE version.  Still dead.

Just sayin'.....

That example is not the best one for our situation. This is no more appropriate of an example... but there was also a company called Apple who dared do things different and was told for its entire existence that it had better get with the program and do things the IBM way or the Microsoft way or it was going to wither away to nothing. Its most unsuccessful period was when it tried to conform to the beige box paradigm. It wasn't until Jobs came back and dared strike out on a new direction that the company found its calling. People thought he and his new computers were bonkers. Now they certainly had their giant warts.... no floppy drive, weird mice, candy colors... but by god they were COOL. Yeah, I said it. COOL. Even as late as a year and a half ago people were calling them the stupidest company ever... nobody wanted an ipad. "LOL... iPad what a dumb name... sounds like a feminine product". "Apple is gonna bite it bigtime on this one"

We know how that turned out. Now, i am far from saying that we are Apple. I personally would call anyone else doing that a Blasphemer... so apologies. My point is that we can all find cautionary tales or examples to buff up our points of view.

The facts are that DAZ 3D is not a room full of fools flailing wildly in the dark and hoping to hit something. We are purposefully engaging in the business of advancing the technology even if we have to go it alone. We have the hope of hopes that we can improve things in this arena to make things better for all digital artists. Honestly, from most quarters, the feedback has been really, really great overall. The one blemish is that some of you love your Poser so much that you feel the need to defend it and fight on its behalf.

Im saying... you really dont. 

We love Poser we want Poser users in our community. We are saddened and sickend by the notion that we have to even to say that. We dont want to ban people and censor posts. We dont want to have to deal with ugliness, who does? 

I am more than happy to engage you or anyone else in rational and civilized discussion but you have to admit you were unnecessarily snarky here. Cant we can do better? I am sure you have your scars from dealing with things in the past, but DAZ 3D is OBVIOUSLY moving in a new direction and things are changing for the better. This isnt Team Edward Vs Team Jacob. This isnt Religion, Politics or the big game on Sunday. We just want to make some friggin cool art. 

 

Quote - I bought the Daz millenium horse for one job and had to scrap it because of the horrible distorted legs.  Still no fix that I am aware of. 

---I would be happy to look at an example. I have seen quite a few GORGEOUS renders of the Millenium Horse and I cant imagine what you mean without a reference.

Err... Daio, myself, and a whole host of other people who know about horses told Daz repeatedly about Rosinante's legs.
If it were a real horse, it couldn't walk. It would be put down.
To the layman it probably looks fine, but the front shins (cannon) are bowed/bulged slightly (even in SR1) the position of the knee being adjustable up and down???
The back cannon is actually worse than the front. (The front knee was a poorly done fix to the original version, where the relation between forearm and cannon was so off, it was scary. I remember half a million horse leg photos lol.)
There is proper relation between the length of a horses forearm and shin. Moving the knee up and down...really?
There is a lot wrong with that horse, but the first version was absolutely atrocious from a horse person's point of view. Holy yikes lol.
The neck. OMG the neck. You know a horse bends at the poll, right? Same as humans don't have the head attached to half way down their back with one bone. Would it make sense to have the head move at the point where it attaches to the spine, rather than about a hand length down the neck?
I realize that would create "crumple zones" at the top of the neck for some positions, so I can forgive it a little, but it often makes it very hard to pose the head naturally and a lot has to be fixed in postwork.
And the mane should/could have been done differently. Not attached to the neck.
For any future horse (and if you make one using Genesis you're going to really really upset people, I warn you now.) don't attach the mane, make it a separate figure supporting the morphs.

I strongly - strongly - suggest any modeller who does a new horse gets the model checked by a vet or a horse breeder before finalizing it.
You think if you released a human figure with legs that bow in the wrong direction, people wouldn't notice? :) Horses are among the most well known animals, along with dogs and cats. Getting those wrong will be noticed, because there will be enough experts in horse/dog/cat confimation to point it out to you.

Dangerous place to be, I'm sure. :)

Quote - I only have these suggestions:

 

1. Keep a versioning system for your products. Sometimes they are updated and there is no way of knowing if the current available version is newer than the one downloaded just a few weeks earlier. This may be important if a serious bug has been fixed. If a versioning system is too complicated then at least show the date of the last update for each product. I know that the cart is sometimes updated with a new product update but it is not always done for all the updated items.

This is a feature we willbe addressing 

1. The ability to easily create custom dynamic clothing in DAZ Sutdio is needed.

I cant say we will be able to do this, we do have Carrara after all and it wont be the big brother of Studio if Studio steals all its tricks... but seriously,  it is on the grand list of desireable functionality for DS. We wont be adding a whole lot of giant new features like this for a while anyway, we are trying to lock down a few other things like Docs, installation, the store and New user experience. 

1. DAZ Studio needs full documentation. For a paid application, this is really lacking. Forum posts are not a replacement for a proper manual and the docs site is still mostly a placeholder. 

I have commented on this several times now. Its a high priority.

 

Thanks for your attention,

Thanks for being a cool cucumber. If we could always have conversations like this I would love the forums :D

 

FlyerX

Quote - quoted from Rob Whisenant:

Quote - Work on the Cr2 Exporter continues. The next iteration includes fixes for a few bugs and exposes the exporter to the DAZ Script API, similarly to the OBJ exporter. This means that a script can be written to improve the process by dramatically reducing the number of manual steps and consolidating any options that are still needed into a single dialog. Writing that script is the next thing in the queue [for the exporter]. Following that will be the documentation, as it is likely to change significantly. Said script will not be in the next build... it will have to follow. No, I don't have a date for when the public will get the next build or the script. There is a [private] testing cycle that is scheduled to start tomorrow. Feedback from that batch of tests will influence the release schedule.

See, that's a good answer regarding improving the conversion process.  Not optimal (it isn't standalone and requires D|S to be done) but it's a big step forward.

How about importing content that has been rigged and weighted in Poser, to DAZ|Studio?  I haven't heard any talk about that at all, I'm sure a lot of people would benefit from it.

Rob is great. Any info I have about the exporter comes from him so thanks for posting that from our forums.

Your suggesstion is a good one, ill pass that along.

Hey Rand,

Thanks for your response.  I truly hope Daz follows through on what you say is in the works for the PS/Genesis crossover. Mind I am one of the early fans of Hexagon so I hope you can understand any scepticism I may have about this issue.  Now don't get me wrong - as a content provider I have always found Daz one of the best out there. It's just that in the software department I've been disappointed enough times to have a proof is in the pudding attitude.

There are aspects of your responses such as the interface that I will have to agree to disagree on but that's O.K. we're not discussing sports, polotics, or religion (though some of the posts make it sound as if we are).

Pass on my thanks for those of your follows at Daz working on this issue - but please don't handle this like the afore mentioned Hexagon (those of you who have read the Hexagon forums at Daz know what I'm talking about).

Quote - Has anyone mentioned product promo images yet?

There has been an increasing lack of Poser renders in in product promos at DAZ, they are either limited or absent. Now, I've not had too much of a beef with that, because I've figured that DAZ want to sell us Studio, so limiting the promos to Studio renders makes some business sense. That may be inconvenient for me (and has delayed some of my purchases until I've seen the products in Poser galleries) but it is fair enough. No beef.

BUT if you want to say that you value Poser users, then show it. If you want us to shop from you as Poser users, rather than potential Studio users, then let us see what you're selling in the software we mean to use in. Otherwise, we feel like a side market - which is fine but not what you're saying here.

Of course, many of your PAs do make and include Poser renders and I promise you, that really does help their sales from me. But take a look at the DAZ originals. Take a look at the recent crop of PC products - some aren't marked as Studio renders but they aren't marked as Poser either and they look just like the Studio ones, so I assume they are just that. What do they look like in Poser?

I cannot speak for our Art Director, he makes the call on all the promo art. but with his demanding schedule I can assure you that he is simply trying to optimize his workflow. It may not make sense or him to maintain an operational Poser install for that purpose when most of his time is spent in Studio.  I dont even know if he even uses Poser.

I will tell you that from my perspective I love to see Poser renders in our galleries and forum threads. I say "Gimme more!"

Quote - ...for me the decision was simple. It wasn't Daz Forum politics.
It was the fact that several of the key system requirements of Daz Studio4 have basically rendered (npi) my machine obsolete.

The last version of the application (3.1) that does work (to a point) is no longer supported even though it still has serious issues with memory management, which will never be addressed.

That is where Daz lost me.

I cannot afford a new 64 bit machine to run Studio4 Advanced.

Even if my current system could support the S4A, running the 32 bit version would be a lesson extreme frustration due to the severe memory allocation limitations imposed which in turn usually result in the application crashing during the render process because of insufficient memory.

I like to do 3D CG to relax, not get angry or uptight, as it is the only way with my advancing RA (rheumatoid arthritis) that I can stay in touch with my lifelong creative outlet.

Hence, I had two choices, give it up altogether, or find something else that works.

To that end I have been working with the 32 bit version of Poser Pro 2010 which I discovered is much more stable on (and "gentler" to) my trusty 5 year old notebook.

---

My one main concern about Daz is that I feel they are trying too hard to move up the "3D CG industry ladder" too fast and so doing they are in danger of damaging their reputation and alienating their current customer base. While other 3D apps are fairly stable at release time, with Daz, everything seems to be in a continual state of beta development. However, on the other hand they require brokered content to be "bulletproof" before it will be accepted in the store.

Now this may be fine with regards to the free version of the Studio application. However, when it comes down to a "finished" commercial product (like Carrara or StudioAdvanced which customers are paying for) suffering from chronic instability which requires frequent updates and patches, it makes one begin to wonder "why am I shelling out my hard earned money for this?"

This has been an increasing concern among community members over the last couple years. The recent issues with the website and store only reinforce this. Were a similar situation to occur in any other company, it would have resulted in negative PR, the erosion of customer confidence, and subsequent sacking of the individuals responsible.

I am certainly sorry for your troubles. The only thing I can possibly say is that it is not a good business model for us to try to support every aging computer platform. Try playing one of the latest games on an older system... ouch!  We certainly do care about you but there will be limits we must draw when it comes to system requirements and invariably there will be a certain percentage of people who fall below the minimum. I wish it wasnt so.

Quote - good-natured source of information that you could be reasonably sure was accurate rather than a fair amount of heresay, conjecture and theory that is sometimes mistaken for facts.

Is that heresey or hearsay? ;)

Good to see you're keeping in good mood despite the wide-raning dissatisfaction :)

Quote - As I posted just above, we have been steadily moving forward on compatibility.  There have been some interesting developments in the Poser community on our behalf with python scripting that could improve the Genesis experience in Poser as well.

But that is the Poser community - "us" if we stick to combatative "us vs them" terminology - moving Genesis forwards without your help, rather than you moving it forward. Isn't it?

Quote - As it stands, Genesis will open in Poser and as demonstrated by many renders on our site, you can get nice results with it. Its not optimal but hopefully that will come in time.

IMO a lot of misinformation stems from slightly inaccurate phrasing and then Chinese Whispers goes into full force and before you know it someone is saying that Genesis will open in Poser "according to DAZ". Genesis doesnt open in Poser. It may seem a petty point, but a user cannot open Genesis in Poser - each user, individually, has to export Genesis from DAZ Studio 4 (assuming they can, and are willing to, run that program) and "exported genesis" will open in the latest generation of Poser. I am fairly sure that the fact that a Poser user cannot just "open Genesis" but have to get, install, and run DS4 before exporting Genesis is a large part of the problem.

Additionally, as DAZ Studio 4 / the CR2 exporter / Genesis itself continue to evolve, Genesis is likely to need to be re-exported from DS4 a few more times yet. This is both good and bad. Good in that it will hopefully be a better and better Poser experience.

Quote - To All and DAZ_Rand,

 

I usually don't post and especially in such a thread that seems pretty heated, but I think everyone needs to look at some other issues. And I hope I dont upset anyone as that is not my intent.

DAZ_Rand was considerate enough to come to these forums to open a line of communication, which is appreciated. People need to remember that DAZ is a business and they wanted to make a product that was scalable, more functional, and addressed alot of the things that earlier versions had issues with such as joint bending, scalability, exporting etc...they are not responsible for SmithMicro's products or managing SmithMicro's coders. They are doing what they feel is best for their product line in order to be able to do things now and in the future while still making a profit. Could they have coded their product around another company's product..sure, but why should they when they have their own product from which they can control much more in the way so that their products function, scale, and are compatible...this is just good business practice.

Now I will say that on the other hand leaving out poser customers from part of their new product line of v5 whom they have supported in the past with v3 v4 etc...isn't a good feeling for those that like SmithMicro's Poser. They could in theory be loosing alot of money, former customers and future customers as well not only for v5 but for all the related products such as pose packs, morph packs, clothing packs etc...but at some point they had to make a choice. Sometimes a business only has so much money and time to do so much and meet a deadline. But I do agree with people that not supporting a poser compatible version from the start of v5 is disappointing, and they have lost some of the dollars they could have made even from myself. I also use Zbrush, Lightwave 3D, 3DSmax, Photoshop 3d paint etc...but as in all things you get what you pay for and Poser and Daz are pretty cheap/afforable cost-wise compared to other 3d software and especially compared to Autodesk gouging prices and subscription policies, but of course they do lack in quite a few things.

I understand alot of people's issues and I do not discount any of them, but even with all the issues, I want to see more exporting options....real collada support...better Zbrush compatibility...Lightwave exporting (even lightwave has had weightmaps for a long time now, I was actually surprised Poser and Daz didn't have this for a long time). What about UV mapping/pelting from within Poser and Daz itself....think Zbrush and how you can paint UV maps. What about better hair creation/options/etc....what about rendering like Fprime...etc...

I hope I didnt upset anyone that was not my intent...I just think people tend to forget that some decisions are made because of budget, deadline, future concerns about scalability, exportability, and of course business being profitable...SmithMicro and Daz are two different companies. Sometimes you wait forever for things that seem to never come about and it is fustrating, but use that fustration and improve your skills that will have a much better outcome.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks all.

Thanks for your requests and suggestions, I am noting all such feedback. I will ask if you have tried the latest GoZ fintionality that bridges DS to ZBrush... its pretty awesome.

You can paint weightmaps in DS if you have DS4 Pro. That functionality is part of the pro tools and not needed for many so they arent in the other versions.

Quote - > Quote - Yes, many testers pushed hard for a 'classic' style interface and the result was the Darkside interface. Saying DAZ ignored it is a complete lie.

 

However, it is Advanced version (or higher) only, so it's not an option in standard DS.  So to get away from "Skittles" colors (sorry it's what they look like) you would immediately have to upgrade.  So that makes it conditionally true.

It would be nice to have included the style options originally available in DS 3 at the very least.  It feels like a step down visually in comparison (depending if you like the vibrant colors or not).

Or better yet... Rand, relay the idea of allowing the Darkstyle and other skins to be purchaseable separately at a reasonable cost.  I'd be prone to go for that.

There are new options coming to all versions of Studio that will satisfy some of what you are requesting here.

Quote - > Quote -

... As a matter of personal taste, I do not care for her looks, and though she beds quite well, I do not necessarily agree that she bends better ...

Rand, this quote alone makes this thread worthwhile.

You've obviously got to know Antonia far better than you're letting on :-)

I am a content product manager... it would be silly for me not to research the competition ;)

There is a behaviour that I do not understand and that makes me mad: people being told no and... repeating the same question as if the response might change.

DAZ_Rand came here and repeated point-per-point what has been said since day 1 on every account on every forum by every DAZ person, PA and evangelist.

What does it take for everybody to understand and accept once for all that DAZ does not and will not change e.g. the way content is released? I personally never go beyond the first no; when I am told so, I go away and never again ask the question again (acting accordingly, needless to remark).

And now off to install Antonia WM, figure which fills perfectly V5 role, making this thread one more time pointless.

Bye.

P.S.: Cautionary tales? <evil, satanic grin icon>... dear DAZ_Rand... tell the Big Boss and the investors representatives to google for MCA (Micro Channel Architecture)... those who do not remember history...

Quote - > Quote - I bought the Daz millenium horse for one job and had to scrap it because of the horrible distorted legs.  Still no fix that I am aware of. 

---I would be happy to look at an example. I have seen quite a few GORGEOUS renders of the Millenium Horse and I cant imagine what you mean without a reference.

Err... Daio, myself, and a whole host of other people who know about horses told Daz repeatedly about Rosinante's legs.
If it were a real horse, it couldn't walk. It would be put down.
To the layman it probably looks fine, but the front shins (cannon) are bowed/bulged slightly (even in SR1) the position of the knee being adjustable up and down???
The back cannon is actually worse than the front. (The front knee was a poorly done fix to the original version, where the relation between forearm and cannon was so off, it was scary. I remember half a million horse leg photos lol.)
There is proper relation between the length of a horses forearm and shin. Moving the knee up and down...really?
There is a lot wrong with that horse, but the first version was absolutely atrocious from a horse person's point of view. Holy yikes lol.
The neck. OMG the neck. You know a horse bends at the poll, right? Same as humans don't have the head attached to half way down their back with one bone. Would it make sense to have the head move at the point where it attaches to the spine, rather than about a hand length down the neck?
I realize that would create "crumple zones" at the top of the neck for some positions, so I can forgive it a little, but it often makes it very hard to pose the head naturally and a lot has to be fixed in postwork.
And the mane should/could have been done differently. Not attached to the neck.
For any future horse (and if you make one using Genesis you're going to really really upset people, I warn you now.) don't attach the mane, make it a separate figure supporting the morphs.

I strongly - strongly - suggest any modeller who does a new horse gets the model checked by a vet or a horse breeder before finalizing it.
You think if you released a human figure with legs that bow in the wrong direction, people wouldn't notice? :) Horses are among the most well known animals, along with dogs and cats. Getting those wrong will be noticed, because there will be enough experts in horse/dog/cat confimation to point it out to you.

Dangerous place to be, I'm sure. :)

Its WAAAAAAAAY to early for me to be telling you this but I am trying to bring on the next generation of Equines. It will happen....probably in the second quarter of 2012... but that isnt a promise and you didnt hear it from me B)

Quote - What does it take for everybody to understand and accept once for all that DAZ does not and will not change e.g. the way content is released? I personally never go beyond the first no; when I am told so, I go away and never again ask the question again (acting accordingly, needless to remark).

 

I never said that we woudn't change the way content is released. In fact, I purposefully said that it would be changed. Just not to individual zip files.

Ahhhhhh...... thats it for me for the day... ill be back for fresh beatings tomorrow!

LOL... OK... you guys arent that bad. ;)

R

Quote -
---The forums at DAZ 3D are different than these forums because this is a community marketplace... there is no responsible corporate entity. Do you really think SM employees aren't here? im sure they are but as this isn't "their" forum they dont identify. We go to the forums often to communicate with customers, see what people are saying and interact. Many of us do it on our own time at home to boot. Its not that DAZ 3D cant take the heat anyway... its that we dont believe most of our users want to deal with it.  We are acting on the behalf of the average joe who just wants to find out the best shader setting for the bumper of his 57 chevy and not get tied up in a tangled mass of Ugly.

Actually, SM staff are here on a regular basis.  If there's a question they can answer, they do.  ;)

Oh, and someone pointed out previously that Rand's SM equivalent would be thinkcooper.  Nope.  Rand's SM equivalent might be Starla or John.  If you know your history, you remember a time when it wasn't odd to see DanFarr on these forums.  I would equate Dan and Coop, simply because of how much they oversee on their separate projects.  Is Coop CEO?  No.  But, he's Head of the Poser Team at SM.  Then again, I've always seen it that way, and after knowing both of them for many years, I can say that they are equally awesome guys that go out of their way for their customer base.  

Quote - Ahhhhhh...... thats it for me for the day... ill be back for fresh beatings tomorrow!

LOL... OK... you guys arent that bad. ;)

R

Man, you're in Utah, right?  GO TO BED!!  :P  Seriously, LOL.  The forum will be here in the morning.  But, THANK YOU for coming and answering all the questions you have :)  

re: content exporter not handling this or that

Quote - Rob told me what they were, but I have forgotten enough of what he said that I do not want to repeat it for fear of mis-stating it.

Okay, that's reasonable.

Randy said:

Quote - As a matter of personal taste, I do not care for her looks, and though she beds quite well, I do not necessarily agree that she bends better than Genesis... but I really admire the grass roots community effort to get her made. That is very admirable, unprecedented and a feat to be commended.

Quote - "You've obviously got to know Antonia far better than you're letting on :-)"

Maybe, but just because Studio users may have tried her doesn't mean we're leaving Genesis for her.  ;)   She does appear to be a big step up from the SM figures though, and it's good that the community is working together on a single project like the old days.  :)

Especially given what "Randy" tends to mean in the UK, I find the idea of him bedding Antonia reasonably mirthful :)

And yes - any improvement is, discounting any other considerations, a good thing.

Quote - There is a behaviour that I do not understand and that makes me mad: people being told no and... repeating the same question as if the response might change. DAZ_Rand came here and repeated point-per-point what has been said since day 1 on every account on every forum by every DAZ person, PA and evangelist.

What does it take for everybody to understand and accept once for all that DAZ does not and will not change e.g. the way content is released?

That's not ENTIRELY true. From what Rand has said they ARE looking at changing the way that content is released - and are doing so in a manner diametrically opposed to what several people here want. If people don't voice their dissent then we can't claim later to have been ignored, can we?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

... As a matter of personal taste, I do not care for her looks, and though she beds quite well, I do not necessarily agree that she bends better ...

Rand, this quote alone makes this thread worthwhile.

You've obviously got to know Antonia far better than you're letting on :-)

 

I am a content product manager... it would be silly for me not to research the competition ;)

Ha! Of course!

I was just amused by the phrase 'she beds quite well' ... in my country that has other connotations :-)

I find it interesting that he says that he is familiar with Antonia WM when it was just released yesterday.

Bill

I'm pretty sure Rand meant Antonia in general. Those not directly in the know probably wouldn't know that Antonia WM is something new.

Quote - I'm pretty sure Rand meant Antonia in general. Those not directly in the know probably wouldn't know that Antonia WM is something new.

And a beta version of Antonia WM was released publicly some time ago too. I get the impression Randall is just as enthusiastic about this hobby as any of us, regardless of his role at DAZ.

Quote - I'm pretty sure Rand meant Antonia in general. Those not directly in the know probably wouldn't know that Antonia WM is something new.

Check your Poser forum to see this is not true.

All the best.

LROG

He may say what he meant when he come back online. The beta of the weight mapped Antonia is around for quite some time, so he may have looked at it too. 

Funny how someone with proper knowledge of a horse's anatomy doesn't get shut down and ridiculed as someone (or make that plural) with proper knowledge of human anatomy did (back in the other place). It smells fishy.

But anyway, some seem to forget that there really aren't only Poser users who are unhappy with how things are going. Some of us longtime DS users are more than happy to make the switch in programs due to the treatment received. Some of us are even being called traitors.

What of it?

Quote - There is a behaviour that I do not understand and that makes me mad: people being told no and... repeating the same question as if the response might change.

Because it works...sometimes.  DAZ has given in to customer pressure before, if it was loud enough and persistant enough.  Not always, but such intermittent reinforcement produces behavior that is extremely difficult to extinguish.  :-)

And it's important to me.  Maybe it's trivial to others, but those installers pretty much drove me from Poserdom for a couple of years.  Poser...7 or 8?...I don't remember which one, but it didn't get along with V4 and her sisters (Aiko, Girl4, etc.).  I couldn't even install them.  They wanted to be in the main runtime, and they wanted to be in the same runtime.  I don't put anything in the main runtime, and I have separate external runtimes for each figure.  I was used to moving the !DAZ folder to the main runtime to get it to work, but the V4 generation installers were a nightmare.  I was moving CR2s, copying OBJs, editing INI files, trying to get it to work, but it didn't. 

This is a hobby for me.  It's supposed to be fun.  That wasn't fun.  It was time to get a new hobby.  I still kept my PC membership, but a lot of vouchers went unused.  (Didn't save me any money, though.  My new hobby was photography, and I ended up spending thousands of dollars on pro camera gear and software - money that had been sucked into Poser content before. ;-)  I came back when Poser 9 was released, and found most of the installer problems were fixed, in that they actually run.  But they're more obnoxious than ever. 

Please, DAZ, look at how Cornucopia3D does it.  They have newbies using the free version of Vue and pros who spent thousands on the pro versions.  You can choose between installer or zip, for each file or globally.  You can even download one of each, if you want.  It works well to meet everyone's needs in that very diverse customer base.

Quote - > Quote - . Installers are simply our preferred method and we are within our rights to use the method we prefer. We have heard the request to do simple zip files and as I have already stated... and with all due respect... that is just not a direction we wish to go in. I would be happy to listen to any other ideas.

...don't have them throw useless folders like "Templates", "Readme", "Data", etc.  into the Studio "runtime" tree.  It is an absolute mess compared to the Poser one and is so hapazardly organised.

None of those folders go into the Runtime folder (well, not sure about templates but they are usually a separate installer you can point where you like) - they go beside it. Some Renderosity and RDNA merchants, and many freebie makers, do put their readmes in the Runtime folder or in a sub-folder thereof. The Support folder for the metadata does go in the Runtime folder, however - possibly to make sure it isn't showing in the Content palette in DS3.

You might be surprised how many people have looked at Antonia....but opinions on its overall usability may vary, particularly by some of the professionals in this industry. So some are just being poilite and witholding their comments, rather than see things get inflamed.

However out of respect to the OP I think  it better suited that I comment on daz specific issues.

I have found it very hard to get involved with daz studio. I found it very unintuitive, but when version 4 came out, I found it to be much more user friendly (to me) than any previous version. To me it flows like I would expect a 3d application to work. But even that was not enough to encourage me to get serious about the program.

What did push me into finally trying it was the versistility of the genesis figure. Say what you will about it and its functionality in poser, but in daz studio itself, it has HUGE potential. I am able to make creatures using it that I could not even dream of with earlier generation figures. So I totally appreaciate all the tech that is behind genesis and ds4.
I am an artist, so what the tech actually is or how it works doesnt matter to me, what matters is what I am able to do with it.

That said is where my issues with ds4 come up. I am still not able to get renders that look as good as I do with poser. I admit that alot may be due to my own ignarance of the program, so I am still trying to learn. But that said...it is not easy to go from being able to get good renders relatively quick in poser to spend hours and hours in ds and still not have things look good. I think a big problem for me is the lights. It seems every light set does things differently, so there is no real consistancy when rendering scenes. Maybe this simply means that the lights are more versitile in ds and have more options, but the options are useless to me if I cant get them to work how i want.

I also dont like how ds4 eats up all my systems resources when rendering. I literally have to set up a render and then go away from the coumputer for hours, becaue I cannot do anything. This is a big issue for me. ds used to render so fast compared to poser, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a hog and that is killing me now.

So while I do like how ds4 and genesis are growing, and I LOVE the versistility of genesis as a figure and how all my old content works nicely on the new figure, there are still some overall functional issues i like to see worked on. But I do realize that ds4 is still the new kid on the block, I am sure it will get refined as it grows, it took poser a LONG time before it was up to the point of doing serious art as well. I like the ds4 innovations and look forward to seeing how they grow.

Rawn

I think Daz is biting off its nose to spite its face, as the old sayig goes, by not making Vicky 5 compatible with Poser. I do not have the money to invest in yet another 3D program that requires all sorts of plugins at additional costs to do what Poser does. Ex. The cloth room. Besides, I have the free version of Daz Studio 4 and can't figure it out. It is not intuitive at all,  or my version is not working!

Quote - I also dont like how ds4 eats up all my systems resources when rendering. I literally have to set up a render and then go away from the coumputer for hours, becaue I cannot do anything. This is a big issue for me. ds used to render so fast compared to poser, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a hog and that is killing me now.

Not wanting to side-track this thread, but you can adjust how much CPU time DS takes, at least on Windows, though there isn't a very user-friendly way to do it (and having that would be nice). Assuming you use Windows, with DS running open Task Manager, go to the Processes tab and right-click on DAZ Studio's entry, then select Affinity and uncheck as many cores as you want to free up. I'm pretty sure Mac users can do the same, but I've no idea where. Adamr001 has posted instructions on setting up a batch to launch DS with the core usage set.

Is Daz ever going to address the issue of DS not working with a WACOM mouse? Works with the pen, but not with the mouse.

Quote - > Quote - I also dont like how ds4 eats up all my systems resources when rendering. I literally have to set up a render and then go away from the coumputer for hours, becaue I cannot do anything. This is a big issue for me. ds used to render so fast compared to poser, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a hog and that is killing me now.

Not wanting to side-track this thread, but you can adjust how much CPU time DS takes, at least on Windows, though there isn't a very user-friendly way to do it (and having that would be nice). Assuming you use Windows, with DS running open Task Manager, go to the Processes tab and right-click on DAZ Studio's entry, then select Affinity and uncheck as many cores as you want to free up. I'm pretty sure Mac users can do the same, but I've no idea where. Adamr001 has posted instructions on setting up a batch to launch DS with the core usage set.

Thanx Richard...I will try that...yes I am on windows.

Rawn

You can do that with any program with Task Manager....even make it run below normal. BB gave a way to make Poser always run below normal by making a shortcut and adjusting the info in the properties - I wonder if that'll work for DS Rawnrr? I'll see if I can dig up the details ;).

Laurie

Here it is Rawn....and this is a copy verbatim of Bagginsbill's post:

....

It is totally trivial to make Poser use 100% of the CPU if you aren't using it?

I render full blast and work all day writing and testing software, browsing for info, etc. Poser doesn't slow my machine down at all.

All you gotta do is lower its process priority.What this does is lets Poser have all the cores it wants, except when you use any other program. Then it is briefly interrupted. It's totally seamless and I don't even notice that Poser is hogging my computer.

This can be done with Task Manager, but I found it easier to just create a new short cut that launches Poser with lower priority.

Make a copy of the shortcut you use now, just in case you screw this up. Then open its properties.

In the target, put this:

C:WINDOWSsystem32cmd.exe /c start "runbelownormal" /belownormal "C:Program FilesSmith MicroPoser 8Poser.exe"

....

I would imagine if you replace the path for Poser with the path for Daz Studio it may work. I'm not sure if it's different for 64 bit than it is for 32 bit, but I suppose if the path to the program is correct, it should work for ya. Try and see what happens. It DOES indeed work for Poser and I always run Poser this way because I'm always doing something else. Poser 8 and up can be a hog too ;).

Laurie

Rawnrr wrote

Quote - I also dont like how ds4 eats up all my systems resources when rendering. I literally have to set up a render and then go away from the coumputer for hours, becaue I cannot do anything. This is a big issue for me. ds used to render so fast compared to poser, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a hog and that is killing me now.

Having spent a lot of time studying what information I can find on 3Delight (but by no means am I an expert), I am thinking the problem lies more with the ever increasing size of texture maps and maybe with light sets. It sounds like you are playing more with different light sets than you may have years ago. They demand more system resources, especially if they need raytracing. I look forward to the day when DNA will let DAZ use v10 of 3Delight which is supposed to have an up to 300% speed increase for raytracing.

Using the others' suggestions for CPU usage and tweaking your light settings and texture sizes will help.

Kevin

Quote - I cant say we will be able to do this, we do have Carrara after all and it wont be the big brother of Studio if Studio steals all its tricks... but seriously,  it is on the grand list of desireable functionality for DS. We wont be adding a whole lot of giant new features like this for a while anyway, we are trying to lock down a few other things like Docs, installation, the store and New user experience. 

Randall, but carrara doesn't have dynamic clothing- at least that i know of. I know theres been hair in the past, but not clothing. Am i missing something?

Quote - Here it is Rawn....and this is a copy verbatim of Bagginsbill's post:

....

It is totally trivial to make Poser use 100% of the CPU if you aren't using it?

I render full blast and work all day writing and testing software, browsing for info, etc. Poser doesn't slow my machine down at all.

All you gotta do is lower its process priority.What this does is lets Poser have all the cores it wants, except when you use any other program. Then it is briefly interrupted. It's totally seamless and I don't even notice that Poser is hogging my computer.

This can be done with Task Manager, but I found it easier to just create a new short cut that launches Poser with lower priority.

Make a copy of the shortcut you use now, just in case you screw this up. Then open its properties.

In the target, put this:

C:WINDOWSsystem32cmd.exe /c start "runbelownormal" /belownormal "C:Program FilesSmith MicroPoser 8Poser.exe"

....

I would imagine if you replace the path for Poser with the path for Daz Studio it may work. I'm not sure if it's different for 64 bit than it is for 32 bit, but I suppose if the path to the program is correct, it should work for ya. Try and see what happens. It DOES indeed work for Poser and I always run Poser this way because I'm always doing something else. Poser 8 and up can be a hog too ;).

Laurie

This is exactly what I do for all of my programs when I'm using them.  DS, Poser, Photoshop, Bryce, Hexagon...all of them get low priority use when I'm doing work.

First of all I am uneasy with the new figure being called V5 as it implies that she is an updated version of V4 as she was an update version of V3.  Clearly this is not the case.  Anyway, personal gripe out of the way.

As far as I am concerend the trouble with any new figure is that I will make comparrisons with what I can do already with V4.  That does not stop me trying Antonia and the like because all I am wasting is time if it does not compare well. On the other hand I am not going to pay for a figure unless I have some idea that it will give me something more.  I am certainly not going to pay for a new figure and program unless I am as sure as I can be that it is worth the cost.  Genesis may or may not be a major improvement on V4 I don't know but nothing I have seen yet suggests she is and where do I go for unbias advice.  Where do I go for an idea as to what I can do in the new program that is needed, I can't even look at the documentation as it is not complete.

I had the budget for DS4 but was not sure what I could do with it that I could not do in Poser, other than use Genesis which was another vague concept.  In the finish I spent my money on Poser 2012, I knew some of what it gave me and in addition to weight mapping it came with Sub-Surface Scattering.  Thanks to the way Ambassodors were used I had a a very good idea of what 2012 could do before I purchased it at a stunning price.  SSS has given V4 a whole new lease of life but I am not surprised because I had a good idea what was possible before I spent my hard earned cash.

I am glad to see that DAZ are now lookng at the subject of documentation, too late for me as I dumped Hexagon some time ago as I could not get it to do what I wanted it to do.  I do have Carrera which I updated to version 8 Pro and would love to use this instead of Vue so documentation would be useful, particularly as I have it installed but never use it as I cannot get the results I want.

In summary I am not against Daz as a company or it's products but I do need to know what I am buying before I spend my cash.  Too late for me for Daz 4 and Genesis but with the right information I might considerer Daz5 and Genesis II.

Quote - "Your programmers aren't that good.  Really, they aren't.  Reliablity is good.  DAZ should try it sometime. "

And you guys wonder why there's hostility in the forums? Sorry Studio doesn't work for you. It works fine for me, it's reliable, and this statement is just a baseless attack.

...and this, SS, is why I've been sitting back all this time. I wanted all the haters, the hand-wringers, the hyper-sensitive, and the overly-entitled to come trotting out and show their stuff.  At first, I thought I would have some fun with it, but after one deleted post, and one edited one, well, I figured I'd sit back for a bit. Though I did want to point out their juxtaposition to a post by RV complaining about some other forum's censorship... but I digress. 

But, a few pages back, when I said that this thread has been more instructive to the public than perhaps it should have been?

I didn't mean Randal's answers. I meant the attitude of a lot of the posters in here.

While there are obvious and very intelligent instances of well-thought-out postings, there are almost as many (if not more) examples of pettiness, back-biting, passive-aggressive sneering, a sense of being overly entitled, outright spam for competing products... 

All I can say is, Randal is a friggin' saint, and this thread proves it. 

Some of the complaints? Perfectly valid. Some of them however (like the one you illustrated)? Most companies would have simply blown those types off. I'm willing to wager that Smith Micro does that fairly often.

Let me give you a parallel example of how things work in the real world. I work for a multi-billion-dollar company that has banks around the planet as our customer base.  I know that we've told certain customers to simply bugger off at times. It is usually due to unrealistic expectations, an overly-developed sense of entitlement, or sometimes worse behavior on their end. In my experience, it's mostly the smallest customers that are the biggest pains in the ass.

The big boys (including most major US banks and CUs, BTW) are intelligent enough to either keep it realistic, or they are willing to pay for the resources necessary to acheive their goals.  The medium-sized ones are more than willing to work with us, because the competition can't even come close in ability or flexibility. Most of the little ones are pretty cool, and some of my favorites are the little guys. They know their limitations, and in spite of that we usually do go out of our way for them if they're willing to work with us.

OTOH, even in this industry, you get the occasional self-entitled asshat. Let me give you a heavily sanitized example here.

Dude runs a little credit union in some no-name town in West Bumblefrig, and has maybe $45m in total assets. Dude also has the attitude that he's Bank of America or Deutschebank. Wants massive modifications to his particular (tiny three-server) system. When he's told how much that would cost, he freaks the hell out, goes apeshit, tells us all to go to hell, and decides to hire some guy's cousin to do the mods instead (they're his servers, he's perfectly allowed to). Turns out the cousin in question just recently graduated from West Bumblefrig Community College (no-name Campus), knows only enough about programming to be dangerous, and ends up tearing the servers up from hell to breakfast. They still run, but just barely, and some customers are noticing errors in their monthly statements... the CU is flirting with regulator audits at this point. Dude is abolutely livid - blames us for it to cover his ass. Demands we "fix your mess!" We do what we can within bounds of contract, and then some... manage to clean up most of it but not all, since many components of the screw-up sit on some other server that we (by law and regulation) cannot have access to. We inform him of this, and of every other step we've taken along the way. He goes ballistic, threatens lawsuits, etc etc.

Our corp CEO himself ends up using a bunch of polite words to tell the guy in no uncertain terms that: 'we saved all the evidence, we'll see you in court if it comes to that, and by the way once contract ends, you can go f--k yourself because we do not want your money. It's your bed, you lie in it'

The point is that in most other, more serious industries, when someone acts the fool, they get promptly ignored.

• Just because you spent $10 on something does not give you the right to call the CEO on the carpet when your custom character's tits don't bounce perfectly.

• Just because your particular computer may be loaded with crapware, potential malware, hasn't been tuned in years, and has some oddball configuration (and likely contains mis-matched parts), doesn't mean you get to stomp your feet and demand attention whenever some free application doesn't load for you. 

Now there are some serious holes that DAZ needs to fill: the lack of a manual is a pretty serious deal IMHO. I know it can be a bitch to get a proper documentations person.. Hell, I wrote the first one, and I'm still amazed that it wasn't as lousy as I thought it would turn out. I know how much of a PITA it is to make sure the user manual explains the product cogently, while at the same time not forcing a steep learning curve. The CG shit ain't easy at all for the newbie; the apps are highly complex, no matter how simple the UI is. OTOH, it has got to be done, and not having one is pretty inexcusable. 

OTOH, the whole Genesis thing? Sorry, but if it doesn't work in Poser, it doesn't work in Poser. Until that situation changes? Either use it in D|S or do without it. If you got booted from their forums, then stop spending money there, and for the love of all that is holy, stop stomping your feet and whining about it. Nobody cares, my dear little precious. Take your ball, go home, and don't come back until you learn to behave like an adult.

Overall though, this thread has been highly educational... though again, in ways that I don't think many of the posters intended.

I have asked THREE times in this thread for people to basically drop their attitude and let Rand handle this. This, officially WILL BE THE LAST TIME I ASK.  If you can't keep it on topic, ask Rand a question, or answer in a helpful manner in this thread, your post will be deleted from here on out.  Period. The tone is unnecessary.  Rand is here doing an excellent job quelling upset, and adding to the upset is counter-productive.

Reply edited to comply with mod's repeated request.

...and having seen that Penguinisto has already said pretty much what I was about to say.

Well done.

Followup to LaurieA and JenX's priority comments:

The path for Windows XP 64 users is:

C:WINDOWSsysWow64cmd.exe /c start "runbelownormal" /belownormal

This is FRIGGIN' AWESOME!

Quote - Followup to LaurieA and JenX's priority comments:

The path for Windows XP 64 users is:

C:WINDOWSsysWow64cmd.exe /c start "runbelownormal" /belownormal

This is FRIGGIN' AWESOME!

Thanks! I'll be darned if I know why the forum posting software sees fit to remove the backslashes...lol. Here's the edited version:

C:WINDOWSsysWow64cmd.exe /c start "runbelownormal" /belownormal

Thanks again Basicwiz ;)**
**

and just to make the info complete I think for Windows 7 64 bit users the path would be:

C:WINDOWSSysWOW64cmd.exe /c start "runbelownormal" /belownormal

that is just a logical guess however since I have only Poser 8 and need to use the 32 bit command on my 64bit machine...lol.**
**

Thanks, LaurieA... I didn't even notice the slashes had been removed!

Randal:

Thank you, you are an extreme rarity ... a knowledgable gentleman.

Penquinisto:

Quite right.

Klebnor

Quote - > Quote - I'm pretty sure Rand meant Antonia in general. Those not directly in the know probably wouldn't know that Antonia WM is something new.

Check your Poser forum to see this is not true.

sure those not in the know won't know. By definition? I know next to nothing about Antonia WM for example. Maybe less.