Quote - Plenty of people will still upgrade to the newer versions of Poser whether Genesis will work with it or not, and so will new users.

...I did so because they work on my system while Studio4 doesn't.

Quote - kyoto_kid wrote:

Quote - If Daz is intent on killing Carrara and Bryce so that a "buffed-up" version of Studio could take their place, they should have just stopped development of the other two applications instead of string people along.

 

What in the world gave you the idea DAZ is going to kill Carrara and Bryce to put their features into DAZ Studio?

 

 

Coldrake

...the Infinito terrain generation plugin for one.

...renewed development of Hexagon (which has a direct two way bridge with Studio)

...no development of a 64 bit version of Bryce.

So a third party plug in, a Hexagon update and no 64 bit Bryce tells you they are killing Carrara and Bryce. I guess we've come to different conclusions. I can't imagine why DAZ is currently working on an update to Carrara if they are going to kill it.

Coldrake

Wolf359:

Quote -  predictably ultra cynical scenario

I just don't understand how you can ignore basic economics, if cost of production goes up then either sale price will go up or quality will go down.  Cost is always passed down to the consumer.  I'm sorry I didn't present an ultra naive scenario that agrees with you I guess?

Penguinisto:

Quote - No content, no users. 

I dunno man if lack of Genesis compatibility was truly making a dent in SM's projected profits, they'd be seeing that since the day P9 was released.  Either their accounting is retarded, or they don't see it as all that big a difference - if it was really hurting them, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation, there wouldn't BE any compatibility issues.  DAZ on the other hand, very obviously stands to make gobs of money if they can sell Genesis content to "the other side".

Or I guess the SM folks could just not like making money, maybe that's it.

Could this go back on theme, please? We've had this discussion about Poser and DAZ content and market chances already, this thread is for discussion with DAZ.

Please stay on topic.

Quote -

Quote - Who is the BBaggins of the DS4 community?  Who has the capabilities of making a completelly new figure that takes full advantage of the DS4 capabilities.

As for the first part, you may want to look a bit closer at the DAZ forums... there's hobbyist folks in there who are working up things like realtime collision detection, for heaven's sakes. As for the second? The figures are already there. 

I did. I asked. You see, I bought DS3Adv with the express purpose of developing shaders in Shader Mixer as counterparts to my shaders in Poser. After much hemming and hawing, I was finally told by those who modded the forums: "regretably, there is none."

People there dabble and do interesting things with the tools at hand, but no one could explain brick behaviour, nor was there any comprehensive documentation on brick/shader behaviour either.

And things haven't changed, any, there. :glare:

Quote - this thread is for discussion with DAZ.

Discussing with people who start a thread about asking which new features to add to a release... one week before releasing the actual program? :lol: it happened with Carrara (insult to injury comes to mind).

Bye :biggrin:.

I doubt highly that Daz will either discontinue Cararra nor make it part of Studio. As long as we are having these discussions, we may as well not jump to conclusions or spread outright fibs ;).

Laurie

Hmm, I often wonder what you all would be doing if nothing new were going on at DAZ?

we'd be hapilly rendering. Unfortunately I keep getting emails from them about their wonderful new products (which don't work in poser)

and one of my favourtie things used to be to browse the daz website for all the lovely new things.

And I so looked forward to their new figures.

Love esther

oh and I don't want to cancel DAZ emails because there are some things still for poser that I buy. eg nice new stonemason sets.

Love esther

Quote -
Penguinisto:

Quote - No content, no users. 

I dunno man if lack of Genesis compatibility was truly making a dent in SM's projected profits, they'd be seeing that since the day P9 was released.

Stretch out the timeframe for a bit, and you'll see what I'm getting at. 

Right now, V4 and all the toys that go with it will satisfy the crowds, will do so for awhile - thus no impact on SM's bottom line at this point in time. But what about a year later, or 5 years on? What will be taking V4's place by that time, if there were no V5 or the like?

Quote - DAZ on the other hand, very obviously stands to make gobs of money if they can sell Genesis content to "the other side".

Certainly they could make money by having a foot in both programs. How much money remains to be seen, as we have no insight out here into how much of either product is making its way onto hard drives, let alone being used.

We can get partial indications on D|S (CNET shows 2.2 million total downloads of D|S for Windows, and almost 260,000 downloads for OSX), but no concrete numbers. No indications at all for Poser, however... nobody's talking numbers there. 

"

or 5 years on? What will be taking V4's place by that time, if there were no V5 or the like?"

I am certain that by 5 years there will be lots of new figures from 3rd parties.

I know of a couple of different people working on new figures. come to think of it - 3 different ones at least.

Love esther

5 years from now?

SM will be promoting PoserPro 2016, with soft skin dynamics, talking figures; an Internal Wallmarkt filled with clothes and hair and props, all single click to fit.

You type your story in Windows10, Word 2015.

And Poser chooses the figures clothes and hair, and poses the lot for you, automatically adjusting the light to the story's atmosphere.

And If Poser can not find the right clothes in the internal shop?
It goes to the sky (cloud) to borrow them for a while.

Oh, yes, borrow.

They are in the cloud, so somebody else used them already, so they are not new, but at least secondhand. We do not buy, but borrow or lease.
And we do not pay, but lease something else, somthing we made, back into the cloud.

A Win-Win situation between all content sharers.

In forums we chat and talk and brag about all the new features.

In a distant memory, we seem to remember there used to be some other proggie-thing . . . . Sorry, I do not remember exactly :-)

5 years from now :-)

Quote - " or 5 years on? What will be taking V4's place by that time, if there were no V5 or the like?"

 

I am certain that by 5 years there will be lots of new figures from 3rd parties.

I know of a couple of different people working on new figures. come to think of it - 3 different ones at least.

Love esther

That's the best part of all this - all those Poser genuises are getting busy and solving the problem.  The biggest lesson is not to allow a single source to become the only figure provider.

Correct Glitterati3D

That is why there are so many independent initiatives.

There is a hole in the market now.

Poser9-PoserPro2012 came with a leap of improvements but no "new" figures, and Genesis-V5 having Poser troubles, the market is completely open for the taker.

There is a HUGE opening now. High, Medium, and Lower Poly.

Time will tell what figure (or figure set) will take it.

And then a HUGE market for content creators to dress our new family.

These are exiting times.

Quote - We can get partial indications on D|S (CNET shows 2.2 million total downloads of D|S for Windows, and almost 260,000 downloads for OSX), but no concrete numbers. No indications at all for Poser, however... nobody's talking numbers there. 

Those are total numbers since the first 0.I don't remeber build. Divide by the number of actual releases (and point ones) and then divide by at least two to take into account people that download things just to have a look at them and you have rough estimate of the people who are (and, like me, used to be) Studio users.

Doing the math (for everybody that pretends not to be able):

• 3 major versions;
• at least 3 (if not 4) point releases for each major release;
• the 2 factor for "collectors";

and you get 2.2 million / ~20 = 100K users (at most).

Bye...

P.S.: dear manleystanley... they ban you twice... and you are defending them?

Quote - Could this go back on theme, please? We've had this discussion about Poser and DAZ content and market chances already, this thread is for discussion with DAZ.

Please stay on topic.

Posting this again because some are acting like Bantha didn't say anything.

"...and then they'd get to meet "Mr. Louisville" up close and personal."

LOL, I assume that by your use of the term 'flat' that you're on t'other side of the Pond. Over here, you better have Mr. Smith & Mr. Wesson or Mr. Louisville will end up where Sol shineth not. And when did Louisville start making cricket bats? Just joking :-)

A modest suggestion to the modulators - save us from ourselves. Lock this thread until Randal returns. If someone actually still has a question, it'll keep. Meanwhile, holiday sales are being threatened, Santa's milk & cookies are in jeopardy and Lord knows the grog shops could use the business. Paraphrasing an old PSA, 'Lock the thread, Take the keys, Don't help a good boy go bad.' 

Why can't I do a freaking simple copy and paste on this got dambed freaked up forum.

Not quoting an entire post just to address one line. 

So Poser will be getting all that neat stuff in 5 years, so it will be 5 years before poser catchs up with carrara?

Folks, carrara is about a half a step away from Poser like cloth dynaimcs. I can already use poser dynaimc clothes in carrara for draping. Carrara has had a soft body plugin for quite some time. In fact if you wanted V3 jiggling accoss your screen you could have done it in C7. 

Some times I think people forget there is an alturnative to Poser and Studio, that can do far more then both.

I jumped on and downloaded that free poser debue. Installed it, check it and it's content, will be uninstalling it all today. Nothing there of any use to me.

I Have an actual question for Rand, and it is some what poser related.

I really would like an out line, or something about this new store system. Frankly what I have read about it scares the hell out of me.

I don't want DAZ's nose in my content folder; what little there is there. And If I can't download and install my content myself, I wont be doing any more busness with DAZ.

If as a carrarest I am forced in to a studio content folder, and carrara's runtime compatabilty goes the way of transposer. I wont be upgrading carrara or doing busness with DAZ.

If for some reason I have trouble downloading, installing or useing content because I have CMS uninstalled, I'll stop doing busness with DAZ.

Right now carrara can use a lot of different model meshes. I much prefer a well organized runtime to a cluster F content folder. If DAZ trys to manacle me to the DAZ ball and chain, I will run.

All forums, if bearing sufficient initial interest and allowed to run long enough, will eventually turn into a free-for-all where we bring up whatever tangential thought pops into our heads as we read along... and fight about it ad nauseum with somebody who also sinks his teeth into it. As if anybody ever said "Hey, you're right and I'm wrong!" in a forum. :) But, you know, freedom of speech and all that.

If nobody minds, I'd like to ask a question pertaining to the original intent of this thread. 

Randall, now that DAZ has chosen a body shape for Genesis and dubbed it "V5," does that mean there will be no more development or updates from DAZ for Victoria 4? V4 still rules the market despite the arrival of Genesis, Antonia and now GND for Alyson 2. There is still plenty of money to be made for DAZ in V4 territory if it devotes some of its resources there. 

We continue to see products for V4 come through the submission process. Really it's the decision of the PA's to determine what to develop for. If the market demands more 4th generation content we will see more. I know some have switched to Genesis development because the process is different and in many cases faster. But as stated we see many develop for 4th gen, and why not, the content can be used for Genesis as well.

...ManleyStanely.  I have C8Pro I've been working with it off and on.  The only thing, like Studio 4, C8P really needs a 64 bit system to shine as it is just too hamstrung by the memory limitations in 32 bit.

For DazStudio, memory management has been an ongoing issue. Don't know if that has been resolved in 4A. 3A is where it was supposed to have happened (but didn't) and as Randall mentioned earlier, it is now a low priority even though we were promised it would be done before a new version of Studio was released. This alone would make S3A more stable, and thus useful, for those of us who cannot afford a hardware  upgrade right now.

Quote - We continue to see products for V4 come through the submission process. Really it's the decision of the PA's to determine what to develop for. If the market demands more 4th generation content we will see more. I know some have switched to Genesis development because the process is different and in many cases faster. But as stated we see many develop for 4th gen, and why not, the content can be used for Genesis as well.

...however when I go to the store and click on the "newest" filter, the majority of offerings I see are Genesis/V5 based.

If content creation for Genesis is indeed more attractive to PA's as I have heard here and elsewhere, then the Gen4 line's days (at least in the Daz Store) are truly numbered.

Since the release of Studio4/Genesis/V5 I have noticed my purchases from the Daz store has gone down significantly only because much of the new content that interests me is unusable without Studio4/Genesis.

However, I am only one customer and loss of my patronage will not break Daz's bottom line. So yes, the "vote with your wallet" idea is futile for there's always someone who was just introduced to 3D CG waiting to take your seat on the bus.

I do know that some fixes were added late in the 3.x dev cycle. But even more memory management was done in 4.x.

One of the problems with a major release is that the Development team trys really hard to NOT break the SDK till the next major release. And I know some of these changes required a change to the SDK.So it's not always possible to dive deep into the core code to make the changes.

Does that make sense?

Kyoto_kid,

I wouldn't get too worried about the Genesis/V4 ratio just yet.  From what I can tell, items may sit in the pipeline for months.  I just bought some very recently released hair & the installers have a date of June.

Quote - We continue to see products for V4 come through the submission process. Really it's the decision of the PA's to determine what to develop for. If the market demands more 4th generation content we will see more. I know some have switched to Genesis development because the process is different and in many cases faster. But as stated we see many develop for 4th gen, and why not, the content can be used for Genesis as well.

I wasn't referring to vendor products. Right now most of them are riding the Genesis introductory wave; how many of them will go back to V4 content along with Genesis and to what degree remains to be seen. They will go where the money is, I imagine. The market will determine how long V4 makes sense for vendors, I was referring to DAZ development of V4, such as bug fixes, updates, etc.

All I can say is that part of my renewal voucher expired without being used.
My PC voucher is sitting in my account untouched and about to expire in what...less than two weeks, with Christmas in between where we're unlikely going to see new content.

Add to that all the "PC Extravaganza" vouchers (luckily I didn't spend much) which are valid until...January?

But when I go into the store, all I see is Genesis, or PC stuff, or textures for genesis stuff.

Meaning I can't use my vouchers on anything I can use which makes the PC membership once more pretty useless to me. (although I'm eyeing the Stonemason release, but money is tight)

Oh and most of the Christmas freebies are Genesis or DS, too.

That's what will drive people away.

Daz is lucky I renewed my PC membership, because if that sale had been now...I wouldn't have. I'd simply have walked away.

As it stands, I spend only enough to use my vouchers, if that.

Quote - I do know that some fixes were added late in the 3.x dev cycle. But even more memory management was done in 4.x.

One of the problems with a major release is that the Development team trys really hard to NOT break the SDK till the next major release. And I know some of these changes required a change to the SDK.So it's not always possible to dive deep into the core code to make the changes.

Does that make sense?

...I would think though that plugging memory leaks and solving the bloat issue would have little if anything to do with the SDK. If anything it would enhance the application's performance overall.

Granted, the 3.1.2.32 release does work better than previous versions however it still has some serious memory issues which are particularly glaring in the 32bit version due to the tighter RAM limits one has to work under.

I had a PC membership from the very beginning. Finally let it go a couple of months ago. I just don't shop at Daz anymore, and I used to spend a ton of money there. I noticed that most of the Christmas freebies were not for Poser too. Sad. I used to love Daz, but they are off in a new direction for sure. I wish them well, but they are of very little use to me anymore.

Quote - Oh and most of the Christmas freebies are Genesis or DS, too.

That's what will drive people away.

Please stop that, because that's not true.

The PAs run the Christmas giveaway not DAZ. DAZ gave us the server space to host the freebies. There was a good number of freebies that works in Poser that were given away including two V4 head morphs and 3 M4 head and body morphs on two separate days that I (as well as other PAs) took time out between working on other project to do... (and I got another V4 to release) just to hear someone whine two posts later that Poser users haven't gotten anything. Really?

It really grates my nerves to hear people groan about how many freebies they get. It's RUDE. It's TACKY. It's UNGRATEFUL. You didn't pay for it, so exactly what are you griping about? I as well as others took time out from other things to make sure there was something that could be used in both programs, and then we see ungrateful stuff like this.

If you see less people participating less year, just look up at your comment and think.

Quote - > Quote - We continue to see products for V4 come through the submission process. Really it's the decision of the PA's to determine what to develop for. If the market demands more 4th generation content we will see more. I know some have switched to Genesis development because the process is different and in many cases faster. But as stated we see many develop for 4th gen, and why not, the content can be used for Genesis as well.

I wasn't referring to vendor products. Right now most of them are riding the Genesis introductory wave; how many of them will go back to V4 content along with Genesis and to what degree remains to be seen. They will go where the money is, I imagine. The market will determine how long V4 makes sense for vendors, I was referring to DAZ development of V4, such as bug fixes, updates, etc.

...just as with the last version of the core application, I feel any fixes to the Gen4 figures on Daz's part are pretty much low priority in light of Genesis/V5 being released. Fortunately some fixes (like joint bending) are coming from third party developers.  Hopefully this will spread to the other Gen4 models.

Would be nice if a third party developer could be allowed to fix the remaining memory issues in Studio3 but that is probably as unlikely as a blizzard in Tahiti.

IIRC, the memory leak problem is caused by the undo stack.

Adamr has released a script to clear the undo stack, and recover the memory.

Details are here:

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=143150

(I hope it is ok to post this here, I am just trying to help.)

Quote - > Quote - Oh and most of the Christmas freebies are Genesis or DS, too.

That's what will drive people away.

Please stop that, because that's not true.

The PAs run the Christmas giveaway not DAZ. DAZ gave us the server space to host the freebies. There was a good number of freebies that works in Poser that were given away including two V4 head morphs and 3 M4 head and body morphs on two separate days that I (as well as other PAs) took time out between working on other project to do... (and I got another V4 to release) just to hear someone whine two posts later that Poser users haven't gotten anything. Really?

It really grates my nerves to hear people groan about how many freebies they get. It's RUDE. It's TACKY. It's UNGRATEFUL. You didn't pay for it, so exactly what are you griping about? I as well as others took time out from other things to make sure there was something that could be used in both programs, and then we see ungrateful stuff like this.

If you see less people participating less year, just look up at your comment and think.

 

...agreed.

Yes, there are some I cannot use but that's just the way things are. Look at holiday gift giving, not every gift under the tree is for everyone in the family.  Wouldn't make much sense and the individual gifts wouldn't be as special to the recipients.

I'm actually pleased to see Bryce users get a little love this year.

Heck, one of the merchant resource freebies actually resulted in my purchasing a very useful utility which will really help with textureing.

Quote - IIRC, the memory leak problem is caused by the undo stack.

Adamr has released a script to clear the undo stack, and recover the memory.

 

Details are here:

http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=143150

 

(I hope it is ok to post this here, I am just trying to help.)

...a very helpful script, already have it, and use it religiously. However, it only fixes the one related to shaders and content which are deleted from the scene (similar to the Carrara Delete Unused Shaders/Objects command).

There is still "memory creep" that slowly bloats the application while it is opened, and the application still sometimes hangs in memory after being closed down.  Had that happen the other night and only discovered it when I went to shut the system down and the "application open" warning appeared.  Going into the Task Manager/Processes, I noticed the DAZ process had stalled at 75MB even though it was nearly ten minutes after I closed the application.

The application also remains in a bloated state after a render completes or is aborted so any subsequent render process has less RAM to work with.

Quote - ...a very helpful script, already have it, and use it religiously. However, it only fixes the one related to shaders and content which are deleted from the scene (similar to the Carrara Delete Unused Shaders/Objects command).

There is still "memory creep" that slowly bloats the application while it is opened, and the application still sometimes hangs in memory after being closed down.  Had that happen the other night and only discovered it when I went to shut the system down and the "application open" warning appeared.  Going into the Task Manager/Processes, I noticed the DAZ process had stalled at 75MB even though it was nearly ten minutes after I closed the application.

The application also remains in a bloated state after a render completes or is aborted so any subsequent render process has less RAM to work with.

Which would account for Windows not realising that the GUI had vapourised working in Shader Mixer on my machine... as far as Windows was concerned, DS3Adv was still up and running. Usually you get a notice "this program has stopped working. Would you like Windows to diagose the problem" thingie. Never got that, so I could never send a report to MS about it. And Daz pretty much ignored my reports - just added them to the queue. Sort-of gave up after a while. :blink:

I remember someone saying that the content manager in DS4 stays on your computer and runs, even after the program is uninstalled. I haven't tried to prove this myself, but someone who's opinion I trust and who I know knows their way around a computer said that they ran across it. Is Daz going to fix that? That is very unmannerly for a program to do that.

Laurie

In version 3 and earlier the DAZ Studio process will continue to run for a bit even after the program has been exited. It is doing some clearing and memory management, but it won't hurt any data that you've saved if you kill the process.

Hmm, complaining about Xmas freebies. I might be a cornic complainer, but even I don't complain about Xmas freebies. And except for the Bryce one, the ones I've downloaded work fine in carrara, which means they should work in poser.

When I go to the DAZ store there are neat little options to tailor my shopping. If I click V4 all I see are V4 items; well mostly :lol: . If I select new releses and V4 what I get are the new releases for V4, imagine that.

Before the DAZ forum went all sideways, I saw something that got me laughting. One day I saw a thread where some one was complaining about an outfit that was released for Genesis, that it should have had a mil 4 counterpart. Not 2 days later I saw a post by some one complaining that a new outfit for V4 wouldn't work on Genesis because they just had DS4 standard, so there should have been a genesis counterpart.  Just porves no matter which way you jump you are going to land on someones toes.

You could alway weight map V4 in the new Poser, oh wait, that's something you would have to do yourself, nevermind. Sorry, I forget DAZ is suposed to do this work for you. Well I'm sure sM included weightmapped figures in the new poser, right? Or at least preset weight maps you can apply in Poser.    Right?

OK. here we go once again, and I really do hate to repeat myself. Yes when you Uninstall studio 4 CMS is left behind. As I have said and repeated and repeated CMS is a seperate uninstall. You can uninstall it at any time and it wont effect studio 4 or genesis. Just means you have an empty smart content tab.

Quote - Before the DAZ forum went all sideways, I saw something that got me laughing. One day I saw a thread where some one was complaining about an outfit that was released for Genesis, that it should have had a mil 4 counterpart. Not 2 days later I saw a post by some one complaining that a new outfit for V4 wouldn't work on Genesis because they just had DS4 standard, so there should have been a genesis counterpart.  Just proves no matter which way you jump you are going to land on someone's toes. You could alway weight-map V4 in the new Poser, oh wait, that's something you would have to do yourself, nevermind. Sorry, I forget DAZ is suposed to do this work for you. Well I'm sure sM included weightmapped figures in the new poser, right? Or at least preset weight maps you can apply in Poser.    Right?

The only figure that I know of that comes pre-weight-mapped with the new poser is Dregon.

V4 is currently being weight-mapped. It's happening because with Poser 2012, we preserve the freedom to create our own. I tend to rely on creative individuals in the Community rather than some outfit/company. But then, that's just me: can't speak for anyone else.

Quote - In version 3 and earlier the DAZ Studio process will continue to run for a bit even after the program has been exited. It is doing some clearing and memory management, but it won't hurt any data that you've saved if you kill the process.

...but for ten minutes? I watched the process for a couple minutes longer in Task Manager and there was absolutely no change in the memory usage, either up or down.  This said to me that something had stalled or crashed. Usually if a programme/process is running properly, this number continually fluctuates.

I finally clicked on End Process to clear it manually.

Too slow for the V4 question.

As far as the Studio hanging on exit, I saw a thread on DAZ forums were they admitted that Studio was trying to phone home to notify crash information (apparently they were going to remove this "feature").

Quote - OK. here we go once again, and I really do hate to repeat myself. Yes when you Uninstall studio 4 CMS is left behind. As I have said and repeated and repeated CMS is a seperate uninstall. You can uninstall it at any time and it wont effect studio 4 or genesis. Just means you have an empty smart content tab.

Have faith in DAZ Apple-like content store. I am sure that they will manage to force you to have the CMS installed and running in order to buy stuff (otherwise it would not be different from what happens today).

...the thing is, I shut it down properly that evening.

If the content store demands the CMS is running (which is moot since I only can run Studio3A) then I guess I'll have to shop elswhere.

Yooz Guys will read anything...even that which is not written.

Ah well...any oppertunity to toot ones own horn I suppose.  8 )

Tom

Quote - Why can't I do a freaking simple copy and paste on this got dambed freaked up forum.

Not quoting an entire post just to address one line. 

Tutorial, ManlYStanly. Click below post where you see, "quote"

Wait

Highlight what you don't want to repost, leaving the "quote" in brackets part behind.

Push the "delete key." 

Add your own text.  Or not, really doesn't matter.

And ManStan, Carrara is not an alternative to poser or any other program except Carrara.  It has some parallel functions, but the same, with the same results, it is not.  If it were, you could load a scene file from poser and get the same results in the render, I don't believe it will do either without a lot of hoops and adjustments to leap through.

Quote - Complaining about freebies?..where?...all I saw was  "I noticed that most of the Christmas freebies were not for Poser too."

Yooz Guys will read anything...even that which is not written.

Ah well...any oppertunity to toot ones own horn I suppose.  8 )

Tom

Ah.... xkcd. One of my favorite comics of all time. :)

Quote - Complaining about freebies?..where?...all I saw was  "I noticed that most of the Christmas freebies were not for Poser too."

Yooz Guys will read anything...even that which is not written.

Ah well...any oppertunity to toot ones own horn I suppose.  8 )

Tom

That wasn't the quote. It was:

Quote - Oh and most of the Christmas freebies are Genesis or DS, too.

 

That's what will drive people away.

Which is 1) Not true and 2) a COMPLAINT about something someone took time to OFFER FOR FREE.

If you can't use something that is offered for free, SAY NOTHING... especially when you did get stuff previously you could use.  Just because you go online doesn't mean you suddenly lose your social graces.

For those who dont know or didn't pick up on it... **btfurner **is a also DAZ Project Manager and will be hanging out and answering questions too. 

Welcome B!

Goes back to his egg-nog

Quote - Which is 1) Not true and 2) a COMPLAINT about something someone took time to OFFER FOR FREE. If you can't use something that is offered for free, SAY NOTHING... especially when you did get stuff previously you could use.  Just because you go online doesn't mean you suddenly lose your social graces.

Don't hold it against us all...I hate when ppl bitch about freebies too. I make freebies, and I know how much work I put into mine, so I really don't like hearing ppl moaning about it ;). I get disappointed a lot that a freebie won't work in Poser, but you sigh and move on ;). I still think at this point and time that a lot more DS people are disappointed than Poser people. Whether or not that changes at some point remains to be seen.

Oh, and BTW...I lost my social graces looooong before the internet (if I ever had any to begin with)....lol :P

Laurie