But I guess the vendors will make what they think will sell best.

It's not only that ... but a clothing set that is more detailed, and involves more pieces that work together (such as a jacket over a shirt, or a shirt that tucks inside pants, etc etc etc) take longer to make. They have to be fit so that they adjust together properly, body morphs have to be developed and checked, there are style and movement morphs involved, the weight mapping on each piece needs to be checked and tweaked, and so on.

Ana has only been released for a short time, but there are things being worked on. Just be patient. 8-)

I totally sympathize with content providers. To spend countless hours making a detailed pants, blouse and jacket outfit, doing all that you say, and then selling only a few dozen copies during the intro discount period... when a simple strapless bikini, or a mindress, much easier to make, sells hundreds. I do get it. 

One thing a vendor could do is offer more variety in textures. For example, instead of that minidress having only black leather, blue leather, red leather, pink leather, etc. ... do a couple of leather textures and then some more everyday materials too. And include a morph to make the dress knee-length, and transmap options to cover the deep plunge, add some bows or whatever. So it can be a more practical dress as well as a racy nightclub dress.

I can imagine vendors rolling their eyes, thinking "That's what the add-on pack is for, you nimrod!" Which is fine. Good textures take work and are worth paying extra for. I'd just like to see the texture pack be more of a different style rather than slight variations of raciness.

Anyway, maybe there are ways to reach the T&A market as well as the Mary Jane market.

Has anyone else noticed this one?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/anastasia-leather-set/91039

Quote - I totally sympathize with content providers. To spend countless hours making a detailed pants, blouse and jacket outfit, doing all that you say, and then selling only a few dozen copies during the intro discount period... when a simple strapless bikini, or a mindress, much easier to make, sells hundreds. I do get it. 

One thing a vendor could do is offer more variety in textures. For example, instead of that minidress having only black leather, blue leather, red leather, pink leather, etc. ... do a couple of leather textures and then some more everyday materials too. And include a morph to make the dress knee-length, and transmap options to cover the deep plunge, add some bows or whatever. So it can be a more practical dress as well as a racy nightclub dress.

I can imagine vendors rolling their eyes, thinking "That's what the add-on pack is for, you nimrod!" Which is fine. Good textures take work and are worth paying extra for. I'd just like to see the texture pack be more of a different style rather than slight variations of raciness.

Anyway, maybe there are ways to reach the T&A market as well as the Mary Jane market.

I think you might have understood that differently than the way I meant it.  What I was meaning to say is, when a figure is initially released, the first items that you see in the store aren't necessarily out there because they "sell better", just that they are out there because they don't take quite as long to create.  The more skin that a set covers, the more there is to address.  The more pieces there are, the more there is to address.

I'm currently working on a set with ten pieces in all. Loaded with morphs. And possibly getting a master texturer involved too. No previews yet, sorry. Don't want to spoil the surprise. But it will be out there eventually. 8-)

Oh yes, comfortable shoes! There is a pair of sport shoes with the exercise outfit at Poserworld. I need some low heeled courts for her, ballerina pumps or kitten heels.

Quote - But under that dress she is not wearing any underwear...

ROTFL good one! That dress looks great, nice work! :-)

Quote - My husband gave me Marvelous Designer as a birthday gift.  I made this dynamic dress for Anastasia which I'll upload into freestuff here. I made several colours, it was quite fun to do. I hope this is unslutty enough.

Me likey!

Quote - Just wondering @ Blackhearted.... how are the Expressions coming along?

ive been derailed with another Anastasia related project.

thats all i can say about it right now, but i assure you Anastasia owners will be very happy and will probably forgive me for dropping off the face of the earth for a few weeks.

ever since the Anastasia release ive been working nonstop on content -- the fact that im not posting every day just means that im really busy. ive never been able to do the whole 'release a product every week' thing - most of my projects take a lot more time because im so nitpicky.

cheers,

-gabriel

Quote - > Quote - Just wondering @ Blackhearted.... how are the Expressions coming along?

ive been derailed with another Anastasia related project.

thats all i can say about it right now, but i assure you Anastasia owners will be very happy and will probably forgive me for dropping off the face of the earth for a few weeks....

cheers,

-gabriel

Sure you'll be forgiven - and thanks for the update.

This works wonderfully well. I hope you will be encouraged to do more...

Quote - My husband gave me Marvelous Designer as a birthday gift.  I made this dynamic dress for Anastasia which I'll upload into freestuff here. I made several colours, it was quite fun to do. I hope this is unslutty enough.

FYI - I approved it a few hours ago, for those who might be wondering. :biggrin:

Where's the Hussy Morph? You know, the one that brings the skirt up to her butt and the neckline down to her navel? 

Seriously, VERY nice work! That dress looks extremely good on her. Even if she's not wearing undies.

That dress is right up my alley...lol.

Laurie

What would we do without those PhilC shoes!? Thanks again Phil! And again and again.

I love what everyone is doing..

Am makeing some Nose morph for Alyson there about 10 but how would i make a INJ so people can use them. Been trying all day

I would say YES! but I don't use the material room in Poser yet, so my input is not particularly relevant.

Go for it!

It's cute, I'd say yes too!

I will use it.

That's a cute little dress, even if it does show a bit of thigh (shock! horror!) The ruffles look pretty good to me.

I'm still in the 90% of the market that uses conforming clothes, so dynamic dressmakers have my praise but not my business. Maybe someday.  

I would probably download it and try to use it at some point :)

We really need to restart the dynamic clothing campaign...lol. Dynamic clothes are so easy and they look awesome ;).

Laurie

Laurie, both the launchs of Ana and of V4WM has reminded me of this.

Conforming clothing is a crutch, and a poor one at that. When I first started with Poser, I thought it was great because it was a simple solution that worked. Now that I'm seven years into the hobby, it is the very thing that keeps tripping me up and slowing me down. I wish I had a dime for everytime I've started with a conforming item and either had to take it to the cloth room to clothify some portion of it, export it to make it an obj file, or simply go back and substitute a dynamic piece in its place!

I'm not sure if any changes have been made to the cloth room that have caused it to give better results, or if it's simply that it seems like second nature to me now. At any rate, I can usually get what I want in terms of effect far better in the clioth room than out of it.

You are a modeller... riddle me this: How much extra time/labor is it, once you have made a piece and done all the conforms and morphs to also release a dynamic version of the package? This would really be the next great sales point in my book... market your piece in BOTH formats AT THE SAME TIME! I assume the same textures would work for both pieces... all of the addon textures would work... AND the artist gets the sales from both conforming and dynamic markets. One OBJ now generates TWO income streams, and the add-ons now have more units in the field to drive their sales.

Of course, there may be no OBJ compatability and the change from conforming to dynamic could be a nightmare. I don't know.

If this will work, it sounds like a "bigger return on very little extra work" solution, and the added variety of dynamic clothing available will be the very thing that should spur its increased use.

I wish I could convince all of my more casual colleagues to just watch ONE cloth room tutorial. That was all it took to get me convinced and started. What held me back was the scarcity (until recently) of clothing. I've tried to support Grappo and the few other artists who create dynamic clothing, and there is more and more of it becoming available.

Perhaps if you could put a tutorial together on how to do the grouping for dymanic use, Laurie? From things you have posted in the past, I assume this is about all there is to making a dyanamic piece "work." Perhaps another on the modifications that need to be made to conforming meshes to make them compatible? (My exported OBJ's often as not fall apart in the cloth room.)

Sorry to be so long winded, but this is a direction I personally would like to go with the hobby. I even bought Pegasus, hoping I could learn to model with a tool that simple, but even that is proving hard for me to master. I'm keeping after it, and one of these days, I'm going to need the tut's to finish up a piece.

Who will step up to help?

Quote - We really need to restart the dynamic clothing campaign...lol. Dynamic clothes are so easy and they look awesome ;).

Laurie

Yeah, they're amazing. All the stuff I've been using lately is dynamic and everything just looks much better. No matter how well a conforming item is made, it will never behave or fit like dynamic clothing can. About two months ago I would never touch dynamic clothing, but now I don't think I want to use any of the conforming clothes that I have, and I have A LOT. :p

John, I'm with you. From this point forward, given a choice, I will always buy dynamic. And I'm like you... I've got A LOT of conforming clothing!

Even if a vendor has been won over to dynamic (and there's no zealot like a convert, whatever the cause), he or she shouldn't ignore the conforming market on principle. It's just too big, too much money at stake. Hold your nose if you have to, but include conforming in your products.

It's been said how much easier it is to make dynamic clothing. OK, so it can't be that much more work involved to do dynamic too. Make a conforming version for your bank account and a dynamic version for your fondness of that format. It's the same principle used by those who make a V4 and a Genesis version of something.

I won't buy any more conforming dresses, skirts, or robes, certainly. I buy most of the dynamic pants I find, as well.

But dynamic clothing surely has its limits. I haven't seen any dynamic armor... Can it be done? And without good quality displacement maps, it still looks paper thin much of the time. Great for silk and lace, not so great for very stiff leather.

The thing with dynamic armor is that you need plates to be rigid, and other pieces must flex. Not impossible, though difficult.

My MD licence is a personal one, so I can give the items I make with it away, or sell on the Marvelous Designer site, but I can't sell them anywhere else. I have no interest in selling them anyway.

Dynamic clothing is best for loose-fitting or draped items, items with ruffles, anything with a skirt. Yes, you can make dynamic armour, but you would need to constrain almost the entire outfit.

OK, the dress will be packaged and uploaded to freestuff, hopefully within the week. Work is getting in the way again...

In the case of armor I would think conformers for the rigid pieces and dynamic for the soft would work much better  :).

Laurie

Or even props for the rigid, since conforming clothing tends to stretch.

Hi

i think it give not enough tutorials for creating dynamic meshes.Enough for the work in the clothroom, but that doesnt help. I mostly get very bad results ..thats the reason i dont add that to a product.

And i dont know what a dynamic cloth customer expect.

Is it okay or normal that you use the morphtool after a simulation to smooth polys as example or do i have to change the mesh until it has no crunches in every simulation ?

Any hints would be fine...then i would add a dynamic version to my next product.

Maybe someone who works with dynamics is interested to test this.

I have not only a Clubwear lineg Im just starting a Gothic Wear Line and have much more on my list as long as there is enough interest and feedback.

Greetings Karth

Quote - In the case of armor I would think conformers for the rigid pieces and dynamic for the soft would work much better  :).

Laurie

That would no doubt work. Just have to persuade vendors to do it. I totally get why there is resistance. :)

Quote - And i dont know what a dynamic cloth customer expect.

Is it okay or normal that you use the morphtool after a simulation to smooth polys as example or do i have to change the mesh until it has no crunches in every simulation ?

 

I go wild with the morph brush after every simulation. I find it necessary with almost every piece, except very very simple things. So I don't think you have to try to create a mesh that simulates perfectly.

I do appreciate displacement maps that add the appearance of thickness or seams and hems to the fabric.

Since I got MD I've just about given up on most conforming clothing. Have to agree that for so many things dynamic works so much better.

Haven't ever tried Poser's cloth room though. So far just the stuff I've made myself and draped in MD.

Hi moriador :-)

Thanks a bunch..that helps a lot.

Then my dynamic is ready to go..has also the morphs from the

conforming piece in . And it works :-))))))))))))

Greetings Karth

the problem with dynamic clothing is that the majority of poser users want instant gratification:  they want to click to load a figure, click to load clothing, click to load a pose, and click to render.

dynamic requires dozens of extra steps. if SM were to simplify the dynamic clothing process to where you load a figure, load a dynamic clothing item, select the clothing, press a 'CLOTH' button and select the target figure from a dropdown, then just start posing with no other steps - then people would embrace dynamic clothing.

until then, its going to remain a niche market.

Correct. Most Poser users don't want to do the extra steps. But, I consider it like this: do I want my image done fast or done well? I guess it's up to the individual. I rather like the idea of hybrids. For skin tight stuff, you're probably better off with a conformer, but if it has a soft, flowing component like a skirt, you can go dynamic with that. The best of both worlds ;). I don't care how thorough the vendor is - you can NEVER get a conforming skirt to look as good as a dynamic one. Not ever in a million years ;).

Laurie

Give me a million years and I'll report back. :P

"But, I consider it like this: do I want my image done fast or done well? I guess it's up to the individual."

many prefer fast. ive lost count of the amount of times someone has solicited feedback from me on a gallery image and ive taken time out of my day to give them constructive feedback -- perhaps that they should modify lighting, or properly ground feet/hands in the scene, or change shadow or render settings, etc. -- and the response is often 'ok thanks but i dont want to take the time to re-render'.

ok thanks for wasting my time then.*

Wow.

Quote - Is it okay or normal that you use the morphtool after a simulation to smooth polys as example or do i have to change the mesh until it has no crunches in every simulation ? Any hints would be fine...then i would add a dynamic version to my next product.

I have no problems using the morph tool for smoothing as long as it is a minor operation. Items that fall apart or items that crinkle up in clusters twice the diameter of the limb they are supposed to drape on are not cool.

While I'm not interested in either line you describe, I'm more than willing to test for you and give detailed feedback about the problems I see. The more conent creators we can get onboard with this project, the sooner it will become mainstream.

And the lack of Tutorials on how to make dynamic clothes is why I was begging LaurieA to make a tut! :) She's really good!

This is hijacking the thread. Perhaps we need to move it to a separate one? Could a Mod help with this?

Well, a vendor can sell dynamic only, if he or she feels that strongly about it, or doesn't want to / can't do the work required for conforming. It's just cutting out most of the Poser market, is all. It's a choice.

Aside from the reasons Gabe mentioned, there is also the fact that most female 3D clothing is, shall we say, rather snug. Dynamic can make beautiful drapes and folds in loose dresses and robes for those willing to  do all the extra steps in the cloth room for each pose. It doesn't work so well on tight clothing, which for better or worse, is how most people like to dress their fantasy girl (if they dress her at all). That predominant situation is where conformers do the best job.... and just happens to suit most Poser users, too.

I wish there were a way to have the dress conform AND have nice draping properties without having to create every drape from scratch in the cloth room. I can make drapes and folds with magnets and even the morph brush, but the former method is clunky in Poser and the latter doesn't do a great job if you're only a casual user of the Morphing Tool.

Segregating all the discussion about dynamic / conforming clothes is not a bad idea, would certainly benefit those who aren't interested in it. I hope all those interested in clothing for Anastasia (the title of this thread) will read the segregated one. It's a valid issue.

I would suggest that you open a new thread about dynamic clothing. I'm sorry, but I cannot move the postings to new threads, you will have to opten the new thread yourself. The only thing I could do is to delete the postings.

I don't know about the majority of poser users, I can only speak for myself.  I am at the point that I am tearing out my hair trying to learn this rigging thing. Making dynamic clothes does sound at lot easier. 

Of course dynamic is probably not any easier than rigging. I think everyone picks what they want to spend time with, there is no right or wrong way, just personal opinions and choices.

Now when am I suppose to get that instant gratification out of this hobby?By the time I get to use it, my brain is so fried from other things I have to do it might be happening and I don't know it.  :-)

Sorry for OT.

Thanks Bantha... new thread created. Let's move the dynamic discussions there.

... and I do appologize for the hyjack.

has anybody been successful at making conformers for her?

Quickconform just produces an invisible .cr2, and trying to delete bones in PP2012 just crashes Poser, i can delete the un-needed bones in earlier versions of Poser (P8 and PP2010) but on trying to go back to the Pose room and save the .cr2 after bone deleting, they both crash.

even using the full skeleton has not worked properly for me, upon copy joint parameters over( from the figure menu) conforming , etc. upon posing ( even a mild pose) the mesh explodes?

Quote - has anybody been successful at making conformers for her?

Quickconform just produces an invisible .cr2, and trying to delete bones in PP2012 just crashes Poser, i can delete the un-needed bones in earlier versions of Poser (P8 and PP2010) but on trying to go back to the Pose room and save the .cr2 after bone deleting, they both crash.

even using the full skeleton has not worked properly for me, upon copy joint parameters over( from the figure menu) conforming , etc. upon posing ( even a mild pose) the mesh explodes?

Have you tried the method discussed in Chapter 31 of the Poser Pro 2012 manual (Transferring Zones and Weight Maps to Clothing). That will apply the skeleton and the weight maps to the clothing you are trying to conform. It starts on page 686 in the copy I have.

When you re-enter the Pose room, any extra bones will be removed from the skeleton.