Working for my FF,Chrome,IE.

Make sure the URL reads http://www.daz3d.com in the url bar.

Your antivirus might block a site

*"I still get this header from Cloudflare on both FF and Chrome; most any link gives me a "Website is Offline" page..."*Ditto using Opera - holiday shoppers or everyone playing with their new iGadgets and clogging teh interwebs. Vickie deserves a day off for the holidays anyway.

"lmckenzie : You have a URL to a Gallery ,Store of yours ?"

Me, formally declared non-artist? Got a political cartoon/pin-up buried somewhere at 'Rotica and an aviation pic on some probably long gone website but that's about all of my scribbles I've had the heart to inflict on da publick. Store? Maybe if I ever finished my archive database beyond 'works for me, most of the time,' I might pay someone to take it LoL. Thanks for asking - I think :-)

Quote - "lmckenzie : You have a URL to a Gallery ,Store of yours ?"

Me, formally declared non-artist? Got a political cartoon/pin-up buried somewhere at 'Rotica and an aviation pic on some probably long gone website but that's about all of my scribbles I've had the heart to inflict on da publick. Store? Maybe if I ever finished my archive database beyond 'works for me, most of the time,' I might pay someone to take it LoL. Thanks for asking - I think :-)

Oh I've had 2 or 3 sites that's gone.
Probably would have helped to pay the hosting bill. ;)
I've probably forgotten HTML.with WYSIWYG App's ,will ...
I'm terriable at finishing any thing ,I could fill pages of WIPs thou.

What CGI App's do you have ?

Nada.  I'm using Linux, so no AV.  I tried in IE on may Windows machine, and it doesn't work there.  I even tried through a proxy server...

Quote - I still get this header from Cloudflare on both FF and Chrome; most any link gives me a "Website is Offline" page...

"This page (http://www.daz3d.com/) is currently offline. However, because the site uses CloudFlare's Always Online™ technology you can continue to surf a snapshot of the site. We will keep checking in the background and, as soon as the site comes back, you will automatically be served the live version. Always Online™ is powered by CloudFlare | Hide this Alert"

 

Hey WandW... the actual Daz site (behing the Cloudflare stuff) is definitely back up, it was only down for a couple of hours, tops, yesterday for me... when I got some Cloudflare cached pages... or the page not cached errors. Then it was fine again.

Sounds like there is a problem with the Cloudflare network nodes in your (network) vicinity... I'd hazard a guess? i.e. they're not reverting to normal service, for some reason, even though the underlying site is back online...

It shouldn't be anything like your own browser cache... unless that issue is on both FF and Chrome. Take it you've tried purging the browser caches just in case it's that?

If you can get to there forums maybe they can help.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums

Clared the FF cache, and I don't think I'd ever accessed DAZ using IE on the Windows machine.  Must be a DNS issue, but then why would I get the site at all?  Very strange...

EDIT I tried a different proxy server and was able to connect.  Very odd.  I may have to call support tomorrow as I'm not going to try to log on over a proxied connection...

It will be an issue with the front-end reverse proxying, rather than DNS, per se, I suspect...

Reading the blurb on the CloudFlare site, this is an uptime improvement service that sits, as some form of reverse proxy, in front of the actual Daz site.

Normally it is transparent. But if the site that CloudFlare is "protecting" is down, CloudFlare kicks in and serves up cached pages... or if it doesn't have a cached page, an error message.

It looks like CloudFlare is set up as a form of CDN, and is formed from a very distributed network of lots of proxy web server farms, dotted all over the internet.

When the Daz site was down yesterday, CloudFront kicked in with serving up those cached pages / error messages.

However it sounds like it has not reverted to normal service, for your part of the internet at least (it certainly has for my locality) when the actual Daz site came back online...

Could someone possibly post a note over at DAZ about this; perhaps someone might see it? I'm on Verizon FiOS in the Greater Boston area...

Thanx! 

I've submitted a technical support request for you at Daz now WandW ;-)

Quote - I've submitted a technical support request for you at Daz now WandW ;-)

Thanx!  :wub:

BTW, I was once in the Edinburgh area 15 years back when I was with Zeneca Specialist Colours.  We had a plant in Grangemouth.  Lovely area...

Merry Christmas!

They've been having problems off and on for a couple of days now.   There's at least one thread in the forums about it. 

I saw that message several times yesterday, but not today.

Sometimes it helps to do a hard refresh.  DAZ's new web site is buggier than a picnic in July. 

I just did a trace route on DAZ and ended up at 108.162.205.149, which a whois search says belongs to cloudflare.

* *

"What CGI App's do you have?"

Almost all old stuff - Poser 2/4/6, Vue 6, DAZ Studio 3, Carrara 6, POVRay 3.6, PoseRay and Art of Illusion amongst others. I used to collect every new free renderer and modeling app I could find, but I long ago realized I was too lazy to become proficient with any of them :-) Now, I stick mainly with Poser and Vue which suit my current taste for more cute toony characters, and Vue provides more than enough render power in addition to the beautiful landscapes/atmospheres. I need to get a machine working so I can reinstall all of that after a meltdown as AoI is the only 3D thing I have working ATM. My most powerful application is NVRS, the Neural Virtual Rendering System. It allows me to see a free item and instanty render a scene in my head that justifies adding the thing to my cobweb covered hoard.  Lately, I've been been dabbling in video editing. VLC (the video player folks) have a new non-linear editor out which looks interesting.  

Quote - Almost all old stuff - Poser 2/4/6, Vue 6, DAZ Studio 3, Carrara 6, POVRay 3.6, PoseRay and Art of Illusion amongst others. I used to collect every new free renderer and modeling app I could find, but I long ago realized I was too lazy to become proficient with any of them :-) Now, I stick mainly with Poser and Vue which suit my current taste for more cute toony characters, and Vue provides more than enough render power in addition to the beautiful landscapes/atmospheres. I need to get a machine working so I can reinstall all of that after a meltdown as AoI is the only 3D thing I have working ATM. My most powerful application is NVRS, the Neural Virtual Rendering System. It allows me to see a free item and instanty render a scene in my head that justifies adding the thing to my cobweb covered hoard.  Lately, I've been been dabbling in video editing. VLC (the video player folks) have a new non-linear editor out which looks interesting.

Before I new a lot about CGI.
All I new was I saw CGI Games move so I thought I could make a CGI Movie ,easily LMAO.

Poser 4 days with a PC of 64 RAM & a 3D Card with 16 RAM.
We Tried to Render out some videos.
We figured that it would take us 300+ years
to Render out a 2 hour long movie.

If I ever win the lottery ,
Have enough for a CGI Crew and a wicked render farm.
Might entertain that thought again.

Fixed the problem; I went into my router settings and told it to release the  IP address and was able to get a different one....

As this thread has remained so well mannered I will risk an honest question and hope it remains so.

Assuming that Genesis bends much better than V4 why are there now fixes for Genesis hip, leg and feet.  Is this because there is a percieved problem or are the fixes only required when using Gensis in Poser?  

I guess they could also give a way to change things to personal choice but then I would not regard this as a 'fix'.  I would be interested in an honest answer from someone who has used Genesis.

Quote - As this thread has remained so well mannered I will risk an honest question and hope it remains so.

Assuming that Genesis bends much better than V4 why are there now fixes for Genesis hip, leg and feet.  Is this because there is a percieved problem or are the fixes only required when using Gensis in Poser?  

I guess they could also give a way to change things to personal choice but then I would not regard this as a 'fix'.  I would be interested in an honest answer from someone who has used Genesis.

Most genesis "fixes" are made with the base genesis shape in mind. You actually don't get into figures with more fixes for bends until you get V5, S5 and M5. If you're using the V4 shape, you're not getting all the fixes, you're just getting compatibility and general better bending.

The latest product looks more like personal taste as it adjusts bending around the buttock area to give a better view of gens area. If you render nudes in these poses then the fixes may be of value for you.

Also in the Evolution muscularity morphs there's a setting for Flexion for the whole body which adds more natural bending in poses, which people forget to turn on. (It's off by default) That may help with some bending in the same area as well.

Picture shows Genesis David (left) vs my weightmapped David-3 (right).

As you can see, Genesis still suffers from DAZ' "exploding butt" disease. But(t) it's less pronounced than with it's predecessors.

:-)

Most people have tried to ignore it because there really was no other choice, but V4 and M4 were actually rigged exceptionally badly, compared to what was technically possible even back then.

So, Genesis bending a whole lot better than V4 doesn't mean "absolutely perfect beyond any improvement ever", it means "quite a bit better than what we had to deal with the last seven years".

None of the currently available meshes is rigged remotely realistic. There are, for various reasons, compromises.

Genesis just happens to be the currently "overall best compromise".

Genesis was made for new users and people who would never touch the rigging of a figure themselves. It was made to be uncomplicated to use and easy to create content for.

So, I still think for 99.99% of the Studio and Poser users, it's their best choice to add a human element to their renders.

Of course if you can rig for yourself, only your own skillset is the limit, as both Studios and Posers rigging tools are pretty much complete now, giving you total freedom in how your mesh shall look when posed.

Quote -  

Picture shows Genesis David (left) vs my weightmapped David-3 (right).

As you can see, Genesis still suffers from DAZ' "exploding butt" disease. But(t) it's less pronounced than with it's predecessors.

:-)

Most people have tried to ignore it because there really was no other choice, but V4 and M4 were actually rigged exceptionally badly, compared to what was technically possible even back then.

So, Genesis bending a whole lot better than V4 doesn't mean "absolutely perfect beyond any improvement ever", it means "quite a bit better than what we had to deal with the last seven years".

None of the currently available meshes is rigged remotely realistic. There are, for various reasons, compromises.

Genesis just happens to be the currently "overall best compromise".

Genesis was made for new users and people who would never touch the rigging of a figure themselves. It was made to be uncomplicated to use and easy to create content for.

So, I still think for 99.99% of the Studio and Poser users, it's their best choice to add a human element to their renders.

Of course if you can rig for yourself, only your own skillset is the limit, as both Studios and Posers rigging tools are pretty much complete now, giving you total freedom in how your mesh shall look when posed.

You know, I wouldn't really expect DAZ to rig for that pose, because... let's be honest. How many artistic renders are you going to make in that pose? Unless you're doing porn shots, and we know DAZ isn't going to help you too much with that. Porn poses... yeah, you're going to have to do a little work for that ;) Besides if a guy tries to break me off by doing that pose, I send Mr Nasty home. ;)

If you model a character ,to just be that one certain character.
Then you could make rigs for that one certain character.

Unimesh ,Genesis is not modeled to be a certain character.
The mesh is modeled to be morphed in to any thing.
So the rigs half to be universal.

A universal morphed character will not bend as well
as a rig made for just one certain character In any App.

Since Genesis is a Descent polycount Subdividable mesh.
Genesis does have the potential to do more then the ridiculously high polycount unimesh.

Well, if we go by the "That pose is only used for porn..." argument, we could have just as well stopped at Poser 4 rigging.

Because for your average "look at me how pretty I am" render Posette and the Dork are rigged perfectly well enough.

But to me good rigging means of course "Can convincingly do the full range of poses achieveable by a healthy human being".

Doesn't matter if you can do it, or I can do it, as long as someone can do it in real life, I want my Poser people to be able to do it, too.

And, btw, non-exploding butts are also a big help with Yoga poses or martial art poses or generally any action pose that involves leg movement and is supposed to look natural.

Especially as a lot of Poser clothing is skin tight.

An exploding butt is just sloppy rigging, not an anti-porn statement.

I'm all for Genesis, but only because there is currently nothing better around.

"Since Genesis is a Descent polycount Subdividable mesh.
Genesis does have the potential to do more then the ridiculously high polycount unimesh."

Sorry, but Genesis' low res SubD mesh is definitely one of it's biggest disatvantages. Low res might be necessary for animation, but for the typical Poser still render it creates more problems than what it solves.

You loose quite a bit of body detail without an elaborate displacement map. Which can mess up joint deformation and needs to be character specific.

And which hardly anyone here can create by himself. As opposed to dial spinning a high res bodymorph.

Using a 45.000 poly "hybrid" body (High res body with low res head) and the "old fashioned" injection tech (without the dreaded "activation") would have been a much smarter and straightforward way to solve some of Genesis problems.

Quote - Well, if we go by the "That pose is only used for porn..." argument, we could have just as well stopped at Poser 4 rigging.

Because for your average "look at me how pretty I am" render Posette and the Dork are rigged perfectly well enough.

But to me good rigging means of course "Can convincingly do the full range of poses achieveable by a healthy human being".

Doesn't matter if you can do it, or I can do it, as long as someone can do it in real life, I want my Poser people to be able to do it, too.

And, btw, non-exploding butts are also a big help with Yoga poses or martial art poses or generally any action pose that involves leg movement and is supposed to look natural.

Especially as a lot of Poser clothing is skin tight.

An exploding butt is just sloppy rigging, not an anti-porn statement.

I'm all for Genesis, but only because there is currently nothing better around.

But I'm saying that's not a practical pose except for saying "Look what I can do". Sloppy doesn't have much to do with it, as I wouldn't think to pose a character with their legs behind their head and expose the butt. If you can give me practical use for that pose, I'll be happy to come off the porn argument... but right now, we're working on different mindsets.

Let's see, Yoga illustrations (The pose I was showing is called Yoga Nidrasana, btw), Classical Ballet, Gymnastics, Martial arts, Dancing, Superhero Action stuff, well, practically anything beyond "standing here looking pretty with my legs firmly closed" and "doing everyday stuff except for actually sitting down" looks better without an exploding butt.

Especially, as I said, as most Poser clothing happens to be skin-tight.

Yes, different mindsets indeed:

Nudity doesn't equal sex and certain poses don't equal porn.

And a job should be done as good as possible because there will always be someone noticing you cutting corners.

:-)

on the porn pose subject, if that is how you look at it, i'm afraid the renderosity front page would score badly, as half the illustrated poses for MP products contain a woman pushing her skimply dressed backsiide in your general direction or posing more provacatively than aunt jane would prefer.

I agree with joe, i do a lot of animating now, and as he stated, martial arts stretched kicks, training poses even some climbing building/mountain stretch poses etc, can leave you with the exploded butt syndrome. Something JCVD has never had to suffer.

Quote - Let's see, Yoga illustrations (The pose I was showing is called Yoga Nidrasana, btw), Classical Ballet, Gymnastics, Martial arts, Dancing, Superhero Action stuff, well, practically anything beyond "standing here looking pretty with my legs firmly closed" and "doing everyday stuff except for actually sitting down" looks better without an exploding butt.

Especially, as I said, as most Poser clothing happens to be skin-tight.

Yes, different mindsets indeed:

Nudity doesn't equal sex and certain poses don't equal porn.

And a job should be done as good as possible because there will always be someone noticing you cutting corners.

:-)

LOL, you're evading... I said THAT pose. So let's not use make a leap of faith into other things when we're talking about something specific. Now, I'd be the last one one to knock porn, but that pose still isn't practical for artistic rendering no matter how you justify it. Nudity certainly doesn't equal sex, but I think you'll have a hard time combining that pose with nudity and coming up with something  artistic.

To be fair, any figure is not going to satisfy everyone's posing needs... but for the most part, bending for most instances is probably the best anyone can hope for. And for poses for those other instances, someone can always enhance it to suit their needs. But at least you can make those changes with genesis without much impact on clothing them to match the pose.

Quote - (The pose I was showing is called Yoga Nidrasana, btw)

Holy cow.  Google Image Search shows you're right.  I didn't know people could get themselves into that position.

I suppose the vendor of this item http://www.daz3d.com/shop/yoga-v4/ didnt think extreme  was impractical? and of course the yoga stretch animate set for DS that pushes a body to the posing limits..............

Attached Link: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Yoga+Nidrasana

Yes, that pose... (see link)

Sorry, there simply is no logical reason for rigging a figure in a way that makes its butt explode when posed.

;-)

 truth has surpassed fiction... I give you ... Zlata

Come on,

How many "normal" people can do that???

Same thing for the "one" percent with different color iris.

That is not a "standard".

V4 products pay the bills, that is the only valid answer to the OP's question.

Why I still use (and will only buy) V4 stuff.

1. Lots of prior investment.  Money and options (like character morphs) talk. 

2. Virtually nothing outside of the base gene. I'd be starting from square one.

3. Lots of nice v4 stuff is still being made.  Some gene stuff I miss out on, but such is life.  I can live with it.  I suppose if I really wanted some gene item I could take it into hex, reshape it, break it up into parts, bring it into poser, and use on v4.

4. The previous 3 means no inertia to use or buy gene stuff.

5. I only use female characters so far, don't even have M4, therefore gene's best feature is wasted on me.

6. I don't use DS and haven't played with DSon yet.

7. Limited funds and tons of hobbies means I have to spend wisely, V4 products atm are the wiser inventment for me.

vilters, i'm not sure how many normal prople can fly, have wings, ginormous bazongas or do many of the things we see in poser renders, does that mean we shouldn't demand content that provides our fantasy pose/superhero outfit hit?.... It's purely supply and demand, the demand for extreme yoga poses far outstrips the desire of the model makers to make it so, just as the demand for slutwear and provocative clothing outweighs the demand for more sedintary clothing styles. If Genesis suddenly becomes easy to use in Poser and the vendors start supporting it more than older figures, acroos the board, then maybe in twelve months time if the question is posed again, it will be interesting to see how things have progressed in the for/anti lobbies. Ultimately the market place will dictate the outcome, as we know vendors control the supply, we have little or no impact on the demand, ie, they make what they want in most instances, not what the market place is asking for........

hehe and why I pretty much quit posting here. TBH I decided not to purchase the new Vicky, Mike, and genesis. Partly because it would mean sinking alot of money into it that i dont really wish to spend, partly because I bought Vue and spend most of my graphics time learning/playing there, and partly because I also didnt want to spend the time with learning/settingup DS or a new Poser. Poser has always been a love/hate relationship, when it worked it was beautifull but the last two versions for me anyway weren`t good softwares. I came onboard with V3 and have spent a ton of money on V4 and the Ms...dont really wish to revisit. Lol if I ever change my mind you will all prolly be on V6...anyway enjoy and keep the art comin...

Quote - Come on,

How many "normal" people can do that???

Same thing for the "one" percent with different color iris.

That is not a "standard".

V4 products pay the bills, that is the only valid answer to the OP's question.

Anyone can do that...... but most of us will never get out of that pose anymore :lol:

I really like a lot of figures and I love to use them all: Jessi, Posette, James, Alyson, Victoria3, Michael2, etc...

Each person use the figure or the figures they want!!!

Quote -  Each person use the figure or the figures they want!!!

I agree with that and would not dream of telling anyone what figure to use, for maybe they are looking to do someting different than me or they are more skilled.

On the other hand, I like to think my renders today are an improvement over what I did last year and ther year before that.  If I am, some of that is due to me having a better understanding of the tools and some of it is down to the fact the tools have improved.  The big question however is always 'Is this new tool worth the outlay in time and the money'.  Not a question to be asked after the fact.

So far I have been unconvinced that Genesis is worth the outlay in either time or money for the where I am with my art, but that may change.  That is why I am pleased there is a way Genesis can be used in Poser.  It allows those that want to use it to try it out and if they pass on their experinences, for me to understand better what it benefits it brings and what is required.

Yes everyone should use what they want but most people want to use the best the can, or at least the best for them and need to do some research before making what could be a very expensive choice. Good threads such as this can only help in making that choice.

Just to make things clear, my product you speak of, its main purpose is to eliminate the exploding butt issue in general. A clear view to the genitals is just a bonus, which in reality is how they will be visible if you bend over depending on body weight. It's not just for nude renders, it makes a big difference even when Genesis has clothing on. Without it you still see the exploding butt if the character is wearing tight clothing such as jeans. Above is David3 on Genesis. One with and one without the Bending Morphs applied. Although it was built mainly for V5, it works on other shaps as as well.

Quote -
 

 The latest product looks more like personal taste as it adjusts bending around the buttock area to give a better view of gens area. If you render nudes in these poses then the fixes may be of value for you.

 

Just to make things clear, my product you speak of, its main purpose is to eliminate the exploding butt issue in general. A clear view to the genitals is just a bonus, which in reality is how they will be visible if you bend over depending on body weight. It's not just for nude renders, it makes a big difference even when Genesis has clothing on. Without it you still see the exploding butt if the character is wearing tight clothing such as jeans. Above is David3 on Genesis. One with and one without the Bending Morphs applied. Although it was built mainly for V5, it works on other shaps as as well.

Still, in general, it has value in what I spoke of. Tight clothing isn't that far from nudes so you'll get the same result, but there's limited situations where a model would be bending in those positions... Which I think genesis is rigged for general poses and as a base for vendors so it isn't too horrible, but other poses may need products like this for fine tuning.

Quote - "Since Genesis is a Descent polycount Subdividable mesh.
Genesis does have the potential to do more then the ridiculously high polycount unimesh."

Sorry, but Genesis' low res SubD mesh is definitely one of it's biggest disatvantages. Low res might be necessary for animation, but for the typical Poser still render it creates more problems than what it solves.

You loose quite a bit of body detail without an elaborate displacement map. Which can mess up joint deformation and needs to be character specific.

And which hardly anyone here can create by himself. As opposed to dial spinning a high res bodymorph.

Using a 45.000 poly "hybrid" body (High res body with low res head) and the "old fashioned" injection tech (without the dreaded "activation") would have been a much smarter and straightforward way to solve some of Genesis problems.

With no textures ,bumps no maps at all
60,000 polycount has more detail then a 20,000 polycount mesh.
But you can get 6,000,000 polycount details on a 20,000 polycount mesh
with texture,bumps and all the maps.
Don't need displacement maps.

Scroll down for wireframe.
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?174659-Andrzej-Marszalek-Art-Dump/page2

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?170805-Diablo
.
They did change the topology some but more or less V4 is V5 subdivided and frozen.
Cause at the time Poser,Studio didn't have subD's so they subDed the mesh for us.

Don't know how much experience you have at rigging
but the lower the polycount the better for rigs.

I prefer displacement and normal maps for detail over bump maps.

Quote - I prefer displacement and normal maps for detail over bump maps.

Yes ,Yes ,I like Displacement Maps.
Was just showing options for those that don't.

All this is still in the air yet but was seeing about having
a bump version for the polycount savvy users
and a displacement map version.
Have both versions for my meshes.

I've suggested to Poser ,Studio to support Vector Maps :)
Since they both have GoZ hopefully next version.

Quote - I really like a lot of figures and I love to use them all: Jessi, Posette, James, Alyson, Victoria3, Michael2, etc...

 

Each person use the figure or the figures they want!!!

I agree.

But I still consider myself an absolute beginner. So I like to hear peoples opinions before I invest time checking a figure out.

Genesis sounds like a fab idea. I'd be well up for it. However, it doesn't even exist for the Queue Manager, so (for me) it's a no go. 

I'm sure they'll work that out. But, by then, I'll have my standard characters, Miki4, Tyler, Anastasia, even M4 and V4 (V4WM is pretty funky) and JoePublic showed with his work with David, if you like a mesh for whatever reason, weightmap it!

It's a bit of a grind, but hey, you do the work once, and wow, you've got a decent figure that you like and bends pretty cool. Sweet.

And for background figures, hey, all that Poser legacy content is pretty cool. It would just be nice, if somewhere in the documentation, somebody told me that X is a legacy figure that is quite xxxt, but OK for a passenger on the bus, but Z is a cool figure you can use for closeups.

But to find that out, I can either waste a year of my life, or come here and talk to you mob.

(BTW, thanks for all the help!)

Ah, I see that someone beat me to pointing out Ms. Zlata. From an audience standpoint, of course, I’m sure that her appeal is entirely the esthetics of the glorious versatility of the human body. Certainly, I didn’t take the slightest prurient interest in her performance. I think I saw that one somewhere labeled ‘punani on a platter.’

It would be nice to have a variety of rigs optimized for different types of poses, morphs or whatever and be able to have them dynamically switched – all transparent to the user of course. The this is what the rigging can be – except no one does it because it isn’t too practical or whatever; may be of academic interest, but if no one’s going to market it or only a small group of intelligentsia would buy it … It’s like those ‘I Built This Personal Jet Helicopter’ covers on Popular Science. Yeah, its cool, now, how do I replace my water pump?

*"Time makes more converts than reason." - Thomas Paine *

The OP basically asking the question of why didn't all support for anything but gene in it's various pokings and twistings disappear, I think brings another question.

Why would anyone even question that a vendor continues to support a well established and supported figure?  Yet, if memory serves me right, that same question has been asked for each and every iteration of vicky that has appeared. 

One posting here, not in this thread but in the past, has even said in effect there was no need for Antonia, that the gene thing would duplicate it exactly.  When I can have the figure that has the look, and fortunately the clothing I want, where is the sense in spending hours with the gene thing to get what I can with one double click of the mouse?  As many others have said, they use many different figures and find them completely satisfactory, gene has no advantage for them and I think that's the whole matter.

Drop the old completely because something shiny new is on the market?  If it still sells, what sense does that make.  If the shiny new turns out to be a dull thud as it falls flat, then where are you?

Doric

Also let's not forget that from a vendor's point of view, creating content for Genesis is completely different then creating content for pre-Genesis figures. For the Genesis you need a completely different toolset, skills and way of doing things. A vendor who wants to go from V4/M4 to Genesis, needs a good knowledge of DS and needs to learn a whole new way of getting the clothes modelled to work for Genesis. If like me, you're used to creating content with the help of Poser and only use DS for testing if it works and looks fine in DS as well, then creating clothes for Genesis is quite a huge step and quite a daunting task. I haven't gotten myself so for to do it yet...... I'm looking at it, but I'm not keen on having to re-learn everything. Took me a long time to master poser and creating clothes for poser figures, so doing it all again in DS just because of Genesis, isn't too apealling at the moment.

The only thing I don't like is how certain vendors who used to create content (mostly figures) for Poser, that worked fine in DS also, now suddenly have switched to DS and create figures and content for DS only. For them there doesn't seem to be a middle way and suddenly all of their loyal customers for years aren't worth serving anymore. As a customer that ticks me off...... we helped building a business and gave support for years, only to be abandoned in the end. That's a shame and it doesn't need to be so at all.

Actually, on the python part, Poser 7 and 8 use the same version.  Poser 8 introduced new modules and framework, which is wxPython.  Poser 9 uses a new version of Python and some newer features of wxPython and went to unicode which is why some things have to be recompiled or, in some cases, re-written.

I don't really have anything to add to the OT, except that I do understand the investment of money into V3/V4 and I don't feel the benefits of Genesis in Poser are really going to outweight that for many users.

Personally, I'm pretty neutral on it.  I think the tech is interesting but I don't use V4 or Genesis much at all.

BTW, Happy Holidays everyone :)

Quote - Also let's not forget that from a vendor's point of view, creating content for Genesis is completely different then creating content for pre-Genesis figures. For the Genesis you need a completely different toolset, skills and way of doing things. A vendor who wants to go from V4/M4 to Genesis, needs a good knowledge of DS and needs to learn a whole new way of getting the clothes modelled to work for Genesis. If like me, you're used to creating content with the help of Poser and only use DS for testing if it works and looks fine in DS as well, then creating clothes for Genesis is quite a huge step and quite a daunting task. I haven't gotten myself so for to do it yet...... I'm looking at it, but I'm not keen on having to re-learn everything. Took me a long time to master poser and creating clothes for poser figures, so doing it all again in DS just because of Genesis, isn't too apealling at the moment.

 

The only thing I don't like is how certain vendors who used to create content (mostly figures) for Poser, that worked fine in DS also, now suddenly have switched to DS and create figures and content for DS only. For them there doesn't seem to be a middle way and suddenly all of their loyal customers for years aren't worth serving anymore. As a customer that ticks me off...... we helped building a business and gave support for years, only to be abandoned in the end. That's a shame and it doesn't need to be so at all.

That's a good point, aeilkema.

I think this divide has hit the vendors hardest. They used to sell a clothing set to the entire DAZ Studio - Poser customer base. Now, they're selling to half that customer base from the start unless they make the same set rigged for both DAZ Studio and Poser which is probably a big investment of time they won't get paid enough for.

I have read some great clothing makers like Luthbel say it's a lot easier to rig for Genesis than Gen4. I love their work and don't begrudge them for their decision to only make Genesis outfits.

Even the DSON limits sales to Genesis buyers and Poser 9/Pro 2012 owners... it's still not opening up the whole customer base to vendors.

Quick question: Does Genesis lose or retain it's weightmapping abilities when DSON is used to transfer it to Poser? Does anyone know?